Date   

Re: Accumate Proto:HO couplers

Thomas M. Olsen <tmolsen@...>
 

In regard to tight radius curvature such as found in industrial sidings along the Philadelphia waterfront and other tight locations, the PRR used couplers that had segmented shanks to allow the coupler head to pivot beyond the normal swing left and right. Many engines were equipped with coupler stops to avoid "jackknifing" when the swing became too extreme. This hinged extension allowed operation on curvature that would normally would thwart coupling to cars or pushing movements on these extreme radii.

The crews used to call these "swinging bullnose" couplers. Try to imagine the normal coupler shank as it emerged from the draft gear box, and instead of having the coupler head attached to it, attach the coupler head as a separate piece to the end of the first in a hinged joint which allowed the coupler head to move side to side an additional distance allowing the coupler to stay closer to track center line to compensate for the tight radius that were prevalent in these locations. This arrangement was similar to that which Dennis refers to as being used on the interurban railroads. The PRR used this arrangement on a good many locomotives used in these tight terminal areas such as A5 0-4-0, B6 0-6-0 classes and also on Baldwin and Alco 600HP-1000HP diesels that replaced the steam classes formerly employed in this service. Some of the early rubber-tired street switchers that the Penn employed in the Baltimore area also used this arrangement.

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@...

Dennis Storzek wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., "David Ball" <davidball@x...> wrote:

Dennis (or anyone else),

Has it been determined the practical minimum radius the PROTO:HO couple can
be used for effective operation? I'm thinking literally how tight can the
radius be before it may cause problems for the coupler, not just that it
cope with typical tight radius like 18"

Cheers

David Ball
I was hoping that someone else would jump in here and save me the typing, maybe someone with first hand experience with our PROTO:HO couplers on tight curves, but it doesn't look like that is going to happen.

To be perfectly honest, we've never tried to determine what the practical minimum operating radius is. When you design a product to meet a certain criteria, say operation on 18" or smaller radius curves, you make whatever modifications are necessary to achieve that goal. If the coupler heads need to be overly large, the boxes overly wide, or the narrow boxes artificially flared wider at the opening, that's what you do, and accept those compromises as being necessitated by the original design criteria. The design criteria for the PROTO:HO was simply to put a scale size coupler head on a shank that would fit within the confines of a steam era center sill, and then make it compatible with the other magnetic couplers currently in use. How well it would work on train set radius was a secondary consideration, although the original layout drawings indicate that equal sized cars equipped with the PROTO:HO couplers should be able to negotiate a 15" radius curve. Notice I said equal sized cars. Problems arise when mixing equipment with different amounts of coupler overhand on these tight curves: freight and passenger cars, or freight cars and locomotives. Even a small 0-4-0 will have considerably more distance between the wheels and the coupler, and so this coupler will end up much farther from the track centerline on a sharp curve than the coupler on a freight car. Eighteen inch radius in HO scale is appx. 135' radius on the prototype, 15" radius is appx. 110'. When prototype curves are this tight they are no longer expressed in degrees, but in the actual radius in feet. Railroads build with radii in this range, such as rapid transit operations, typically use wide swinging radial couplers. The interurban railroads that had this sort of curvature used radial couplers on their locomotives so the coupler would follow the coupler on the cars. When these lines were dieselized, they typically needed to use small locomotives such as 44 tonners, which have short wheelbase trucks and minimum coupler overhang. I suspect the same applies to the PROTO:HO couplers.


Dennis Storzek




Yahoo! Groups Links






Re: tank car

Tim O'Connor
 

Doug, the Fallen Flags web site and the ABPR (A.B.P.R.) archives contain
tens of thousands of freight car images, but they are vast, and you'll have
to do your own browsing and searching... You can GOOGLE for links to the
above web sites. There are many other railfan archives (many hundreds)
and collections online, as well as many museum collections, a number of
which have been discussed here. (Learn to use the STMFC archives search
tool on the Yahoo web site.) I'm trying to help you help yourself, although
I am not as adamant as Richard that you have to invest in a library of books
first. But if you are at all serious as a modeler of tank cars, a couple of good
books are worth thousands of words and web links here... Kaminski's ACF
Tank Cars book, for example.

Tim O'Connor

Do you know of a place on the web with tank car pictures, Doug.


Re: Accumate Proto:HO couplers

Dennis Storzek <dstorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "David Ball" <davidball@x...> wrote:

Dennis (or anyone else),

Has it been determined the practical minimum radius the PROTO:HO couple can
be used for effective operation? I'm thinking literally how tight can the
radius be before it may cause problems for the coupler, not just that it
cope with typical tight radius like 18"

Cheers

David Ball
I was hoping that someone else would jump in here and save me the typing, maybe someone with first hand experience with our PROTO:HO couplers on tight curves, but it doesn't look like that is going to happen.

To be perfectly honest, we've never tried to determine what the practical minimum operating radius is. When you design a product to meet a certain criteria, say operation on 18" or smaller radius curves, you make whatever modifications are necessary to achieve that goal. If the coupler heads need to be overly large, the boxes overly wide, or the narrow boxes artificially flared wider at the opening, that's what you do, and accept those compromises as being necessitated by the original design criteria. The design criteria for the PROTO:HO was simply to put a scale size coupler head on a shank that would fit within the confines of a steam era center sill, and then make it compatible with the other magnetic couplers currently in use. How well it would work on train set radius was a secondary consideration, although the original layout drawings indicate that equal sized cars equipped with the PROTO:HO couplers should be able to negotiate a 15" radius curve. Notice I said equal sized cars. Problems arise when mixing equipment with different amounts of coupler overhand on these tight curves: freight and passenger cars, or freight cars and locomotives. Even a small 0-4-0 will have considerably more distance between the wheels and the coupler, and so this coupler will end up much farther from the track centerline on a sharp curve than the coupler on a freight car. Eighteen inch radius in HO scale is appx. 135' radius on the prototype, 15" radius is appx. 110'. When prototype curves are this tight they are no longer expressed in degrees, but in the actual radius in feet. Railroads build with radii in this range, such as rapid transit operations, typically use wide swinging radial couplers. The interurban railroads that had this sort of curvature used radial couplers on their locomotives so the coupler would follow the coupler on the cars. When these lines were dieselized, they typically needed to use small locomotives such as 44 tonners, which have short wheelbase trucks and minimum coupler overhang. I suspect the same applies to the PROTO:HO couplers.


Dennis Storzek


Re: Black car Cement

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Oct 21, 2005, at 9:34 AM, jthirtysix wrote:

Some railroads used a product called Black Car Cement or roof cement
on the ends and roofs and perhaps underframes of freight cars for a
time in at least the 40's and 50's. Was this used on running boards,
grab irons, and brake wheels or were they painted the same color as
the car? If used on the underframe were the wooden parts also coverd?
James Hickey
Black car cement was a thick petroleum-based liquid which provided more protection against corrosion than ordinary paint. Typically, it was sprayed on, and, when used on steel roofs, some railroads (e.g. the Santa Fe) sprinkled coarse granules on it when wet to provide more secure footing for trainmen who stepped off the running boards. In many cases (again, e.g. the Santa Fe), wood running boards were not coated but were painted in body color. Galvanized steel running boards were often applied after the car cement coating and were not painted, though of course they got a coating of car cement if the car was repainted later. Brake equipment as well was usually mounted after the car cement had been sprayed on, though end grab irons probably were already in place when the car cement was applied. When sprayed on underframes, the underside of wood flooring as well as the steel parts of the underframe were coated indiscriminately. But car cement wasn't applied to trucks and couplers. since it would have hindered visual inspection to find cracks and other defects.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: tank car

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Oct 21, 2005, at 10:22 AM, dphobbyman wrote:

Thanks Ed for the book reference. Do you know of a place on the web
with tank car pictures, Doug.
Ed may know of a website that contains a comprehensive selection of
tank car photos, but I don't. In any case, I sense that it's time for
one of my periodic reminders to STMFC list subscribers that, useful
though the internet is, there is a vast amount of published material on
steam era freight cars in books and periodicals that isn't available on
the net – and won't be at any time in the forseeable future. And
frankly, those of us who write and publish that material are entitled
to become a bit impatient with inquiries which imply that the
questioner can't be bothered to track it down if doing so involves more
than a few keystrokes and mouse clicks. Those who are serious about
prototype research need to develop their own libraries of basic
research sources – I'd put a complete set of the Railway Prototype
Cyclopedias right at the top of the acquisition list – and learn how to
access other sources that are in libraries and museum collections (most
local libraries can get almost anything in print via interlibrary
loan). Those of us who have those resources and the skills to use them
are happy to help answer specific research questions within reason, but we're not in a position to do all your research for you; we have our
own work to do.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Weathering, the effects of location, and other interesting stuff

Richard Hendrickson
 

These are all interesting and useful observations, Elden, but both you and Jeff have ignored one of the most important factors in aging and weathering: the dates when the photos were taken. For those of us who model the late forties/early fifties or earlier, the various color guides published by Morning Sun and others are of very limited value because the photos date almost entirely from the late fifties, sixties, and later, after color film became readily available at reasonable prices and railfans/photographers began using it extensively. There are relatively few color images dating from the years when steam was the dominant form of motive power on the American railroads, but those we have illustrate again and again how much dirtier freight cars got, and how much more rapidly, when they were constantly bombarded with the soot, cinders, and condensation from steam locomotive exhausts. Many of the weathering effects such as paint fading, chalking, and rust which are readily apparent in photos from the diesel era were much less obvious in earlier years because they were concealed beneath a more or less heavy layer of grime. For example, I have a large number of excellent early color slides shot by the late Jack Maxwell in Colorado in 1941 in which almost all of the freight cars range from dirty to filthy dirty except for a few which had obviously been recently repainted. In some cases, it's possible to identify cars that had been built new in the late 1930s and they were already very grimy after only three or four years in service. So those who model the early fifties or earlier need to view the photos in the color guide books with great caution as guides to aging and weathering.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Black car Cement

Gatwood, Elden <Elden.Gatwood@...>
 

James;
I can only speak for the PRR, and observations of lots of freight cars,
but the PRR did not apply it to running boards, grabs, or brake wheels,
which were painted to same color as the rest of the car, subject to
certain guidelines. They also applied it to the tops of
underframe-applied appliances, like the reservoir and cylinder, and also
between mating surfaces in assembly of freight cars, for roofs, floors,
etc. No, the wooden parts were not coated with car cement, but seams
between them were filled with it during assembly.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
jthirtysix
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 9:35 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Black car Cement

Some railroads used a product called Black Car Cement or roof cement
on the ends and roofs and perhaps underframes of freight cars for a
time in at least the 40's and 50's. Was this used on running boards,
grab irons, and brake wheels or were they painted the same color as
the car? If used on the underframe were the wooden parts also coverd?
James Hickey







Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Weathering, the effects of location, and other interesting stuff

Miller, Andrew S. <asmiller@...>
 

Elden Gatwood asked:
---------

P.S. An X43B in the string exhibits some of the most extreme weathering
of any car in the Russ Porter photo. There looks to be literally NO
original paint on this car (the basic stenciling has been re-done on a
painted panel), which appears to be in original "paint", and which was
built a decade earlier. Why do YOU think this car escaped re-painting?

---------
Because there wasn't enough steel left to put paint on?? ;-)

regards,
Andy Miller


Re: tank car

dphobbyman <dopear9@...>
 

Thanks Ed for the book reference. Do you know of a place on the web with tank car pictures, Doug.


Railway Prototype Cyclopedia Volume 10 has an article about ICC-103

uninsulated multiple compartment Type 27 tank cars built by AC&F.
Perhaps this will provide you what you are looking for.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Weathering, the effects of location, and other interesting stuff

Gatwood, Elden <Elden.Gatwood@...>
 

Folks;
I have done a lot of thinking about Jeff Aley's premise, and thought I
should give you a bit of photographic evidence that I think supports
what Jeff said (see below).

From Jeff:
"Do these comments about regional weathering apply only to certain types
of
cars (e.g. hoppers)?

I would expect that free-roaming cars (box cars) would not show regional
weathering because they roamed "freely" across the U.S.A. I believe CIL
1
(a Monon box car) spent a LONG time traveling around the country before
coming back to the rust-belt industrial areas of Indiana.

So even if it's a PRR X29, it may have spent just as much time in the
desert southwest as a car from the FEC, MEC, or SP.

Do the photos and consist data back up my theory, or am I full of it?

Regards, -Jeff"


One of the pieces of evidence is a photo taken by Russ Porter, on the
title page of Ian Fischer's "PRR Color Guide...Vol. 2" that shows
Pitcairn Yard in July 1961. The photo shows a bunch of cars in the
yard, all PRR, in storage, or as a collection of bad order cars. I
actually remember this area, and that feature of the yard QUITE well, as
I spent a lot of time clambering all over cars like this (and avoiding
the yard cops).

The strings of cars illustrate that cars painted in earlier schemes can
be found in as good or better condition than those painted in a later
scheme (and thus, painted at a later date). No, I cannot make any
implications about what service they were in, or what part of the
country they spent most of their time, but they do exhibit FAR different
weathering/condition amongst a single class of cars (X29's) to be
explained by factors such as the date of re-painting, or other "starting
point" factors (like paint quality, who painted it, etc.). It is also
clear that the group of X29's in the "Circle Keystone" scheme exhibit an
incredible array of weathering effects, that range from very small, or
no visible patches of rust, to rust wholly covering the entire body, to
some that exhibit most of the rust on the roof and upper battens, and
everything in between. It is very gratifying to see this sort of photo.

This type of photo "levels the playing field" for questions in regards
to how you can factor out the effects of photo dates, locational
differences, etc. This is one class of cars, on the same date, and in
the same location.

I also looked at hundreds of freight cars photos to see if I could come
to any interesting observations, and one of the most fun was looking,
again in the PRR Color Guides, at the group of X29 rebuilds and X31's,
to see what range of weathering was exhibited. It is absolutely
incredible what a variety of effects are found on this small group of
boxcars. Again, they range from simple dirt deposition and rust
formation, particularly on seams and around rivets, to almost complete
rust coverage of the entire body. Fascinating.

And, other than builder's photos, VERY few clean-looking cars. Most,
for whatever railroad and era, in all my color guides, exhibit
considerable weathering effects of one kind or another. Yes, you
southwest modelers SHOULD have a dominance of bleached out,
dusty-looking cars; and, we modelers of the NE scene should have lots of
rusty cars, but each of us should be exhibiting cars that represent the
broadest range of effects, as those of you that have demonstrated the
wide-ranging behaviour of box cars fleets (and etc) have so correctly
pointed out.

I will now get to work with a view to more variety....and perhaps a
better "eye"...

Thanks, Jeff, and all,

Elden Gatwood

P.S. An X43B in the string exhibits some of the most extreme weathering
of any car in the Russ Porter photo. There looks to be literally NO
original paint on this car (the basic stenciling has been re-done on a
painted panel), which appears to be in original "paint", and which was
built a decade earlier. Why do YOU think this car escaped re-painting?


Re: LV hoppers in 1945

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@..., "buchwaldfam" <duff@g...> wrote:
I wouldn't call it a "decent" picture, due to the half-tone
grain, however there's a shot of LV 15041, still as a composite
car
no date on the photo, however), on page 51 of the book, "Steam
Locomotive Coaling Stations and Diesel Locomotive Fueling
Facilities", by Thomas W. Dixon, Jr. The book is published by TLC
Publishing, Inc.
This photo shows a two bay composite car with six diagonals in a
Howe
Truss pattern. The diagonal closest to each end extend
below the slope sheet. There is no "offset", as in the Athearn or
P2k composite hoppers.
Phil-
I haven't located the photo you sent but from the description it
sounds like what I described as a #7 - a unique looking car with
diagonal braces extending below the SLOPE sheets.

Ed


Re: LV hoppers in 1945

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@..., "buchwaldfam" <duff@g...> wrote:
I wouldn't call it a "decent" picture, due to the half-tone
grain, however there's a shot of LV 15041, still as a composite car
no date on the photo, however), on page 51 of the book, "Steam
Locomotive Coaling Stations and Diesel Locomotive Fueling
Facilities", by Thomas W. Dixon, Jr. The book is published by TLC
Publishing, Inc.
This photo shows a two bay composite car with six diagonals in a Howe
Truss pattern. The diagonal closest to each end extend
below the slope sheet. There is no "offset", as in the Athearn or
P2k composite hoppers.

Phil-
I haven't located the photo you sent but from the description it
sounds like what I described as a #7 - a unique looking car with
diagonal braces extending below the end sheet.

Ed


Black car Cement

jthirtysix
 

Some railroads used a product called Black Car Cement or roof cement
on the ends and roofs and perhaps underframes of freight cars for a
time in at least the 40's and 50's. Was this used on running boards,
grab irons, and brake wheels or were they painted the same color as
the car? If used on the underframe were the wooden parts also coverd?
James Hickey


Re: Sunshine CG door and a half mini kits

Tim O'Connor
 

Bill,

Be aware that Martin's kit was for the IMWX/Red Caboose 1937 box car
40 foot version. There is no kit for the 50 foot cars. I have extra doors as
Martin gave out just the doors as a present at one of the early Sunshine
meets and I got extras from modelers who had no use for them... (Back
in the good old days before "minikits" when Sunshine resin was not part
of any respectable retirement portfolio.) The doors are quite easy to make
by just slicing 2 feet out of the middle of the IMWX doors. I have a set of
those too as I was planning to do the car before parts were done in resin!
And I don't even model the CofG!

Tim O'Connor

This was on the CG modeler yahoo page a couple of days ago.

Bill McCoy
Jax

Bob Branin, owner of Riverdale Station Hobby Shop near Atlanta,
called this morning to tell me he had found some more of the door-
and-a-half kits that Sunshine had produced several years ago. We had
some discussions about these cars sometime back.

He is planning to sell them only in combination with a box car kit
and not individually, and had a very limited supply.

If you are interested, please contact him directly at for pricing
and details: (770) 991-6085

Allen Tuten
President
Central of Georgia Railway Historical Society, Inc.









Yahoo! Groups Links






FW: [proto87] Recent posts on scale coupler requests

David Jobe, Sr.
 

I thought some of you might be interested in these comments from Frank
Sergent. And, if any of you would to see his couplers first hand that
haven't already been able to do so, I will be bringing some of my own stash
with me that you're welcome to examine. See you in Naperville!

Best regards,
David E. Jobe, Sr.
St. Ann, Missouri
Illinois Traction System 1926 - 1928
http://www.illinoistractionsociety.org/

From: proto87@... [mailto:proto87@...] On Behalf Of
Frank Sergent
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 10:12 PM
To: proto87@...
Subject: [proto87] Recent posts on scale coupler requests

Hi,

Several folks have recently posted opinions, experiences, and request
regarding our couplers. I've also had quite a few offlist messages along the
same line. I have been absolutely covered up lately and haven't had time to
respond adequately and quite frankly, I haven't been sure how to respond.
First in regard to opinions, experiences, and encouragement made public or
otherwise, I do know how to respond: Thank you.

In regard to the narrow shank coupler and shelf coupler requests, I've
wanted to do those all along. However, converting those "wants" into a new
product is not trivial (or cheap!). Ideally, I would have introduced the
EC87 along with a narrow shank version and a lower and double shelf coupler
with both style shanks all at the same time. Unfortunately, tooling cost for
different versions of the coupler are almost the same and sometimes more
(shelf couplers for instance) than the tooling cost for the first version.
It was pretty obvious to me that I would have to start with tooling for a
single coupler type, and just see what happens.

I'm still currently in the "waiting to see what happens" stage. I think a
lot of modelers may still be in the "waiting to see what happens" phase as
well concerning our couplers -- waiting to see others' experiences with the
product, and waiting to see if the product line grows to include their "must
haves". I wish I had a crystal ball and could assure everyone that the
Sergent Engineering product line will expand to cover any coupler they
desire within a few years. I don't and I can't.

Here's what I can say. I am committed to making this thing fly and I'm
constantly working on new offerings to address my customer needs. What I
work on is decided by two things: 1) what customers tell me they want and 2)
what I can realistically pursue with available funds. Ultimately, both of
these are controlled by the customer.

Gosh. I think that is the longest response I've ever written that said
absolutely nothing! Let's try something else...

If you like the current product, buy it, early and often. I've actually got
quite a few customers that make a habit of buying lots of couplers and then
doing it again and again and again. This makes me very happy. It also
addresses number 2 above (what I can realistically pursue with available
funds).

Now to address number 1 (what customers tell me they want): If someone
thinks they might like the current product, but there is a "must have" not
currently in the product line, then buy some of the current couplers and
test them out. You might decide the prototypical operational requirements
are a little too far off the deep end to suit you, or you might decide they
cost too much, or you might decide to go back to hook-horns -- that's ok. We
can still be friends, but I won't significantly change the way the couplers
operate, the cost is unlikely to go down a lot, and I'll never manufacture a
hook-horn coupler. You might also decide they meet all your needs, but you
can't make the switch until the product line expands to include product X
and product Y. The problem here is that I can't tell the difference from my
end unless you tell me and if you do tell me, then that request for product
X and Y carries real weight. A request from someone who has never even tried
the couplers has little weight by comparison -- for all I know they'll
decide they'd rather go with the hook-horns.

Again, I would like to thank everyone for their support (even the hook-horn
guys).

Frank Sergent


Re: What & where is SERM?

Miller, Andrew S. <asmiller@...>
 

In their collection is THOMAS RUFFIN, a prototype for the Bachmann HO
Pullman.
Oh yes, they also have freight cars ;-) Gotta keep this legal for the
list.


regards,

Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Howard R Garner
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 6:54 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] What & where is SERM?



Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 01:13:26 -0000
From: "al_brown03" <abrown@...>
Subject: Re: SAL A-1 class Auto Car

What & where is SERM?


SouthEasternern Railway Museum, Duluth Ga

www.srmduluth.org/

Howard R Garner


Sunshine CG door and a half mini kits

Bill McCoy <bugsy451@...>
 

This was on the CG modeler yahoo page a couple of days ago.

Bill McCoy
Jax

Bob Branin, owner of Riverdale Station Hobby Shop near Atlanta,
called this morning to tell me he had found some more of the door-
and-a-half kits that Sunshine had produced several years ago. We had
some discussions about these cars sometime back.

He is planning to sell them only in combination with a box car kit
and not individually, and had a very limited supply.

If you are interested, please contact him directly at for pricing
and details: (770) 991-6085

Allen Tuten
President
Central of Georgia Railway Historical Society, Inc.


What & where is SERM?

earlyrail
 

Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 01:13:26 -0000
From: "al_brown03" <abrown@...>
Subject: Re: SAL A-1 class Auto Car

What & where is SERM?

SouthEasternern Railway Museum, Duluth Ga

www.srmduluth.org/

Howard R Garner


Re: Paint removal

Manfred Lorenz
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Bill Weiss" <wrw13@y...> wrote:

Manfred,

I have tried alcohol (denatured and 70% iso) and Polyscale paint
remover, neither of which worked. The PS did a good job of removing
the
paint, but the lettering is as good as new!

Bill
Bill,

That's too bad. IIRC some folks say 90% iso is the only way to go.
But I have no experience with this.

The late Hosam (http://www.hosam.com) has a website where he had
collected posts from other lists like the RPM. Here is the page about
paintstrippers. Might help to avoid at least the paint coming off:
http://www.hosam.com/paint/stripc.html

I think the lettering is printed anyway. So a tool like the MicroMark
scraper (abrasive again) might help to get it off. It is essentially
a chisel that has triangular profile if looked at from the side. A
good tool to remove unwanted cast on details and helps to avoid
gouging. Perhaps worth a try. You put the flat, ground off area on
the surface and work it like a plane.

http://www.ares-server.com/Ares/Ares.asp?
MerchantID=RET01229&Action=Catalog&Type=Product&ID=82709

Manfred


Re: reefer pix

Blake Tatar <BDTatar@...>
 

Wow Gregg, your stuff is very nice.

Blake D. Tatar

Custom painting, repairs and modifications
of model railroad equipment. Brass a Specialty.

E-mail : BDTatar@...
Website @ : www.BlakeDTatar.com

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