Date   

Re: More 1949 NKP Car Movements

Gregg Mahlkov <mahlkov@...>
 

Bill.

Have a possible explanation for you re: VAN - IS or State (S). These are cars in reciprocal switching, where Swift actually gave the Bill of Lading to the PRR, not the NKP. In some areas the interstate reciprocal switching charge was higher than the intrastate charge, so the NKP agent would have to know if it was in interstate or intrastate commerce. The difference was because the ICC, slow as it was, generally approved rate increases faster than state agencies regulating railroad charges!

Gregg Mahlkov

----- Original Message -----
From: "william darnaby" <WDarnaby@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 9:55 PM
Subject: [STMFC] More 1949 NKP Car Movements


Here is more data from 1949. If I haven't already done so I would like to thank my friend Don Daily, a retired Nickel Plater who saves everything NKP he finds, for allowing me to use these scraps of paper. These are literally scraps of paper handwritten in a notepad with pencil. I have figured out most of the shorthand but I am still baffled by the notations after VAN (for PRR Vandalia Lines) such as IS or State or just S. Anyway, there are even a couple of MONON cars here for Mont and Mike. These sheets peter out at the end of May and I have nothing for 49 after that. As the last couple of days of March indicate it would seem that the Frankfort cars shops started cranking out the cars again as the majority of cars in April and May were NKP so I think I will move on to 1950.

Bill Darnaby

DATE CAR LOAD ROUTING

3-16-49 SLSF 150521 bean meal VAN S

NKP 27026 bulk meal VAN IS
12 grain doors
ATSF 141523 bean meal CIL-Harper Elevator Co, North Branch, MI CIL-GTW
xSheridan, In
NKP 16292 bean meal St Albans Gr Co, St Albans, VT NKP-DTSL-GTW-CN-CV
xForest, In
NKP 13005 bean meal Urbana Mills, Urbana, OH NKP/Muncie-NYC
xTab, In
NKP 15252 bulk meal Cunningham Gr Co, Oak Grove, MA NKP/Buf-DLW-DH-BM
xForest
SWTX 8022 bean oil Swift & Co Ref, Atlanta, GA NKP/Muncie-C&O-SOU

SWTX 8037 bean oil Swift & Co Ref, Atlanta, GA NKP/Muncie-C&O-SOU

3-17-49 NKP 16729 bean meal VAN (State)

RDG 107614 bean meal VAN IS

NKP 27909 bulk meal Martins Feed Mill, New Paris, IN NKP/Marion-B4
local tonnage
SWTX 8486 bean oil Swift & Co Ref, Atlanta, GA NKP/Muncie-C&O-SOU

NKP 26268 bulk meal Crosby Mfg Co, Battleboro, VT NKP/Buf-DLW-DH-BM
xForest
3-18-49 NKP 6982 bulk meal Gen Mills Inc, Toledo, NKP-TT
xMulberry, In
SWTX 8027 XT Swift & Co, Cleveland, NKP

SWTX 8020 XT Swift & Co, Cleveland, NKP

ISTX 960 XT IST Co, Portsmouth, VA NKP/Indpls-PRR-N&W-N&PBL dely

NKP 20294 bean meal VAN (State)

RI 145386 bean meal VAN IS

SP 61053 bean meal Gen Mills Inc, Toledo, NKP-TT
xMulberry
NKP 15681 sinks VAN-Palley Mfg Co, Pittsburgh, PA

3-21-49 SP 32907 bulk meal VAN IS
12 grain doors
SWTX 8015 bean oil Swift & Co Ref, Atlanta, GA NKP/Muncie-C&O-SOU

NKP 6839 bulk meal Beacon Milling Co, Cayuga, NY NKP/Buf-NYC
xMichigantown
3-22-49 C&O 15153 bulk meal Gen Mills Inc, Toledo, NKP-TT
xMulberry
CNW 143148 bean meal VAN IS

3-23-49 SHPX 7571 bean oil CIL-Lever Bros, Hammond, IN CIL-IHB

C&O 9478 bean meal VAN IS

NKP 27910 bulk meal VAN IS
12 grain doors
SWTX 5871 bean oil Swift & Co Ref, Atlanta, GA NKP/Muncie-C&O-SOU

NYC 109812 bean meal Urbana Mills, Urbana, OH NKP/Muncie-NYC
xTab, In
CG 41295 bean meal Urbana Mills, Urbana, OH NKP/Muncie-NYC
xTab,In
RI 25929 bulk meal Gen Mills Inc, Toledo, NKP-TT
xMulberry
UTLX 8562 XT Lyman, OK, NKP/Farmdale-TPW-ATSF-MV

3-24-49 CIL 379 bean meal VAN IS

CBQ 33232 bulk meal Beacon Milling Co, Cayuga, NY NKP/Buf-NYC
xMichigantown
ATSF 124625 bean meal Central Conn. Farmers Co-op, Manchester, Conn NKP/Buf-ERIE-NH
xCheneyville, IL
SLSF 148797 bean meal Armour Fert. Works, Sandusky, NKP
xOtterbein, In
CBQ 30956 bulk meal VAN IS
12 grain doors
WAB 81425 bean meal VAN IS

NKP 26207 bulk meal VAN IS
12 grain doors
NKP 27444 bulk meal Tioga Mills Inc, Waverly, NY NKP/Buf-DLW
xSharpsville, In
SWTX 8308 bean oil Swift & Co Ref, Atlanta, GA NKP/Muncie-C&O-SOU

SWTX 5853 bean oil Swift & Co Ref, Atlanta, GA NKP/Muncie-C&O-SOU

SWTX 6477 bean oil Swift & Co Ref, Atlanta, GA NKP/Muncie-C&O-SOU

3-28-49 NKP 27912 bean meal VAN IS

UTLX 76768 XT Ohio Oil Co, Robinson, IL NKP/Indpls-IC

GATX 68076 bean oil Swift & Co Ref, Atlanta, GA NKP/Muncie-C&O-SOU

GATX 24883 bean oil Swift & Co Ref, Atlanta, GA NKP/Muncie-C&O-SOU

SWTX 8038 bean oil Swift & Co Ref, Atlanta, GA NKP/Muncie-C&O-SOU

SWTX 5865 bean oil Swift & Co Ref, Atlanta, GA NKP/Muncie-C&O-SOU

CBQ 34113 bulk meal Beacon Milling Co, Cayuga, NY NKP/Buf-NYC
xSharpsville
NKP 6085 bulk meal Beacon Milling Co, Cayuga, NY NKP/Buf-NYC
xSharpsville
3-29-49 NKP 17394 bean meal VAN IS

NKP 27911 bulk meal VAN IS
12 grain doors
GATX 3736 bean oil Swift & Co Ref, Atlanta, GA NKP/Muncie-C&O-SOU

CI&M 8249 bean meal Montgomery Cty Farm Bureau, Crawfordsville, IN NKP/Linden-CIL
local tonnage
NH 34635 bean meal Urbana Mills, Urbana, OH NKP/Muncie-NYC
xTab,In
NKP 20099 bean meal Manwaring Leghorn Farm, Mentone, IN NKP
local tonnage
3-30-49 CBQ 36098 bean meal VAN IS

NKP 6078 bulk meal Beacon Milling Co, Cayuga, NY NKP/Buf-NYC

NKP 16488 bean meal A K Zinn & Co, Battle Creek, NKP/Mich City-MC
xColfax, In
NKP 13341 bean meal Urbana Mills, Urbana, OH NKP/Muncie-NYC
xTab, In
3-31-49 CIL 248 bulk meal Beacon Milling Co, Cayuga, NY NKP/Buf-NYC
xSharpsville+Cassville+Kokomo
NKP 17049 bean meal Buckeye Feed Mills, Dalton, OH NKP/Belleview-W&LE
xLizton, In
SHPX 20219 bean oil Bisbee Linseed Co. Philadelphia, NKP/Cleveland-PRR

NKP 20217 bean meal Goodrich Bros, Winchester, IN NKP/Portland-PRR
xBainbridge,In
NKP 17352 bean meal Urbana Mills, Urbana, OH NKP/Muncie-NYC
xTab









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Re: FGE steel reefer- Not - RP Cyc 12

rwitt_2000 <rmwitt@...>
 

Bill Welch wrote:

I hope that drawing in PR CYC is not a steel reefer. It should be the
drawing of the wartime built plywood reefers that is the subject of
the article wherein the drawing appears
Bill,

I received my copy and the plan is for the plywood sided car as the
drawing has a note "9/16 Plywood Sheathing Spline Joints".

Bob Witt


Re: More 1949 NKP Car Movements - March 16 thru March 31, 1949

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

OK, a brief summary.

1) 48 Boxes and 20 Tank Cars.

2) Of the 20 Tanks, 13 of them were consigned to Swift & Company in Atlanta - ten of the 13 were SWTX and three were GATX. Another two were empty SWTX tank cars transferred to Swift in Cleveland. Two more were SHPX tanks: - one consigned to Lever Brothers in Hammond IN, and the other to Bisbee Linseed of Philadelphia PA. Three empty "petroleum" tank cars were returned: - two UTLX's to Ohio Oil in Robinson IL and the other to Lyman OK; and one ISTX which was returned to its owner, the Interstate Tank Car Corp., of Portsmouth VA.

3) 24 of the 48 Boxcars were NKP's. How much this "high" percentage was due to the release of cars from the Frankfort Car Shops, and how much was to the Recession in 1949 cannot be determined quickly.

4) The other 24 boxcars were foreign-owned by railroads in seven of the eight ICC Regions. They include one from New England (NH); two from railroads in the Great Lakes (NYC & WAB); four from the Central East Region (two from the MONON and one each from the RDG and C&IM); two from the Pocahontas Region (both from the C&O); one from the Southern Region (CG); none from the Northwest Region; ten from the Central West (four from the CB&Q, and two each from the ATSF, RI & SP); and one from the SLSF in the Southwest Region.

5) MONON Fans might be interested in CIL #379 which was loaded by Swift on March 24th and delivered to the PRR in Frankfort - no consignee or further routing is known, and CIL #248 which was loaded on March 31st, and routed to Buffalo where it was interchanged with the NYC which delivered the car to Beacon Milling of Cayuga NY. So much for routing reloaded boxcars in the direction of the home road only.

Hope this helps, Tim Gilbert


Re: Sprung Trucks

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Oct 11, 2005, at 9:35 PM, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:

Richard, you and I have debated this before, somewhat. What seems to
me to be your complaint is
mostly that you can see through the springs. I agree with that. But
the solution isn't to have
solid trucks (because in part, equalization DOES work) but to have
better looking springs, and more
of them. There is no way that molded relief on a sideframe can
represent springs as well as truly
three-dimensional free-standing springs.
Schuyler, I don't disagree (except that I have yet to see a sprung
truck that actually does equalize under normal operating conditions),
but given the choice between sprung trucks with see-thru truck packages
and solid sideframes with the springs molded in – which are the only
choices currently available – I'll continue to opt for the latter.

I wrote a few days ago that I believe there is a market for Really
Fine High Quality Trucks, sprung
and equalized, with springs made of some material with a very low
spring rate, that would be molded,
extruded, cast or whatever with suficient thickness so as to properly
mimic prototypical springs.
No argument here, either. But the ideal trucks you describe don't
exist, and may never exist. Meanwhile, we all have a lot of freight
cars that need trucks under them.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: 1937 AAR BOX CAR

William Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Mark,

Thanks for the link and info.

There are lots of choices... and CN looks like a good one. That will
take care of one kit. A couple of these will most likely become ATSF
Bx-27s, but will need to build up the Duryea underframe. Most likely
will do the dart throwing thing to determine what the remaining kits
will become.

-- Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Oct 12, 2005, at 6:31 PM, Mark Heiden wrote:

Hi Bill,

There were quite a few railroads that owned 1937 AAR boxcars. I
recommend you check out the 1937 AAR boxcar list on the Steam Era
Freight Cars website.  It's at:

http://www.steamfreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/1937aarmain.html

Going by sheer numbers, I'd recommend detailing and painting one for
Canadian National.  They had something like 10,000 of these cars with
numerous variations in ends, roofs and lettering.

Mark Heiden

--- In STMFC@..., William Keene <wakeene@j...> wrote:
>
> Hello Group,
>
> I just came across a stash of unbuilt kits labeled as 1937 AAR Box
Car
> by Innovative Model Works deep in my model railroad storage cabinet.
> While one of the kits is lettered SP, the remainder of the stash of
8
> or 10 kits are undecorated. Can anyone in the group provide
prototype
> information as to which railroads owned these cars?
>
> Thanks, in advance, for any info.
> -- Bill Keene
> Irvine, CA
>





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Re: Sprung Trucks

jaley <jaley@...>
 

On Oct 12, 12:35am, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
Subject: RE: [STMFC] RE: Sprung Trucks
I wrote a few days ago that I believe there is a market for Really Fine
High Quality Trucks, sprung
and equalized, with springs made of some material with a very low spring
rate, that would be molded,
extruded, cast or whatever with suficient thickness so as to properly
mimic prototypical springs.

Schuyler,

Why is equalization important? I cannot recall the last time I
have seen a derailment (on layouts owned by several other folks, including
a club) that was caused by a lack of equalization. By this, I ASSUME that
equalization prevents a truck from derailing with three wheels on the
rails, and the fourth up in the air (due to extremely bad trackwork).

Regards,

-Jeff

--
Jeff Aley jaley@...
DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


More 1949 NKP Car Movements

Bill Darnaby
 

Here is more data from 1949. If I haven't already done so I would like to thank my friend Don Daily, a retired Nickel Plater who saves everything NKP he finds, for allowing me to use these scraps of paper. These are literally scraps of paper handwritten in a notepad with pencil. I have figured out most of the shorthand but I am still baffled by the notations after VAN (for PRR Vandalia Lines) such as IS or State or just S. Anyway, there are even a couple of MONON cars here for Mont and Mike. These sheets peter out at the end of May and I have nothing for 49 after that. As the last couple of days of March indicate it would seem that the Frankfort cars shops started cranking out the cars again as the majority of cars in April and May were NKP so I think I will move on to 1950.

Bill Darnaby

DATE CAR LOAD ROUTING

3-16-49 SLSF 150521 bean meal VAN S

NKP 27026 bulk meal VAN IS
12 grain doors
ATSF 141523 bean meal CIL-Harper Elevator Co, North Branch, MI CIL-GTW
xSheridan, In
NKP 16292 bean meal St Albans Gr Co, St Albans, VT NKP-DTSL-GTW-CN-CV
xForest, In
NKP 13005 bean meal Urbana Mills, Urbana, OH NKP/Muncie-NYC
xTab, In
NKP 15252 bulk meal Cunningham Gr Co, Oak Grove, MA NKP/Buf-DLW-DH-BM
xForest
SWTX 8022 bean oil Swift & Co Ref, Atlanta, GA NKP/Muncie-C&O-SOU

SWTX 8037 bean oil Swift & Co Ref, Atlanta, GA NKP/Muncie-C&O-SOU

3-17-49 NKP 16729 bean meal VAN (State)

RDG 107614 bean meal VAN IS

NKP 27909 bulk meal Martins Feed Mill, New Paris, IN NKP/Marion-B4
local tonnage
SWTX 8486 bean oil Swift & Co Ref, Atlanta, GA NKP/Muncie-C&O-SOU

NKP 26268 bulk meal Crosby Mfg Co, Battleboro, VT NKP/Buf-DLW-DH-BM
xForest
3-18-49 NKP 6982 bulk meal Gen Mills Inc, Toledo, NKP-TT
xMulberry, In
SWTX 8027 XT Swift & Co, Cleveland, NKP

SWTX 8020 XT Swift & Co, Cleveland, NKP

ISTX 960 XT IST Co, Portsmouth, VA NKP/Indpls-PRR-N&W-N&PBL dely

NKP 20294 bean meal VAN (State)

RI 145386 bean meal VAN IS

SP 61053 bean meal Gen Mills Inc, Toledo, NKP-TT
xMulberry
NKP 15681 sinks VAN-Palley Mfg Co, Pittsburgh, PA

3-21-49 SP 32907 bulk meal VAN IS
12 grain doors
SWTX 8015 bean oil Swift & Co Ref, Atlanta, GA NKP/Muncie-C&O-SOU

NKP 6839 bulk meal Beacon Milling Co, Cayuga, NY NKP/Buf-NYC
xMichigantown
3-22-49 C&O 15153 bulk meal Gen Mills Inc, Toledo, NKP-TT
xMulberry
CNW 143148 bean meal VAN IS

3-23-49 SHPX 7571 bean oil CIL-Lever Bros, Hammond, IN CIL-IHB

C&O 9478 bean meal VAN IS

NKP 27910 bulk meal VAN IS
12 grain doors
SWTX 5871 bean oil Swift & Co Ref, Atlanta, GA NKP/Muncie-C&O-SOU

NYC 109812 bean meal Urbana Mills, Urbana, OH NKP/Muncie-NYC
xTab, In
CG 41295 bean meal Urbana Mills, Urbana, OH NKP/Muncie-NYC
xTab,In
RI 25929 bulk meal Gen Mills Inc, Toledo, NKP-TT
xMulberry
UTLX 8562 XT Lyman, OK, NKP/Farmdale-TPW-ATSF-MV

3-24-49 CIL 379 bean meal VAN IS

CBQ 33232 bulk meal Beacon Milling Co, Cayuga, NY NKP/Buf-NYC
xMichigantown
ATSF 124625 bean meal Central Conn. Farmers Co-op, Manchester, Conn NKP/Buf-ERIE-NH
xCheneyville, IL
SLSF 148797 bean meal Armour Fert. Works, Sandusky, NKP
xOtterbein, In
CBQ 30956 bulk meal VAN IS
12 grain doors
WAB 81425 bean meal VAN IS

NKP 26207 bulk meal VAN IS
12 grain doors
NKP 27444 bulk meal Tioga Mills Inc, Waverly, NY NKP/Buf-DLW
xSharpsville, In
SWTX 8308 bean oil Swift & Co Ref, Atlanta, GA NKP/Muncie-C&O-SOU

SWTX 5853 bean oil Swift & Co Ref, Atlanta, GA NKP/Muncie-C&O-SOU

SWTX 6477 bean oil Swift & Co Ref, Atlanta, GA NKP/Muncie-C&O-SOU

3-28-49 NKP 27912 bean meal VAN IS

UTLX 76768 XT Ohio Oil Co, Robinson, IL NKP/Indpls-IC

GATX 68076 bean oil Swift & Co Ref, Atlanta, GA NKP/Muncie-C&O-SOU

GATX 24883 bean oil Swift & Co Ref, Atlanta, GA NKP/Muncie-C&O-SOU

SWTX 8038 bean oil Swift & Co Ref, Atlanta, GA NKP/Muncie-C&O-SOU

SWTX 5865 bean oil Swift & Co Ref, Atlanta, GA NKP/Muncie-C&O-SOU

CBQ 34113 bulk meal Beacon Milling Co, Cayuga, NY NKP/Buf-NYC
xSharpsville
NKP 6085 bulk meal Beacon Milling Co, Cayuga, NY NKP/Buf-NYC
xSharpsville
3-29-49 NKP 17394 bean meal VAN IS

NKP 27911 bulk meal VAN IS
12 grain doors
GATX 3736 bean oil Swift & Co Ref, Atlanta, GA NKP/Muncie-C&O-SOU

CI&M 8249 bean meal Montgomery Cty Farm Bureau, Crawfordsville, IN NKP/Linden-CIL
local tonnage
NH 34635 bean meal Urbana Mills, Urbana, OH NKP/Muncie-NYC
xTab,In
NKP 20099 bean meal Manwaring Leghorn Farm, Mentone, IN NKP
local tonnage
3-30-49 CBQ 36098 bean meal VAN IS

NKP 6078 bulk meal Beacon Milling Co, Cayuga, NY NKP/Buf-NYC

NKP 16488 bean meal A K Zinn & Co, Battle Creek, NKP/Mich City-MC
xColfax, In
NKP 13341 bean meal Urbana Mills, Urbana, OH NKP/Muncie-NYC
xTab, In
3-31-49 CIL 248 bulk meal Beacon Milling Co, Cayuga, NY NKP/Buf-NYC
xSharpsville+Cassville+Kokomo
NKP 17049 bean meal Buckeye Feed Mills, Dalton, OH NKP/Belleview-W&LE
xLizton, In
SHPX 20219 bean oil Bisbee Linseed Co. Philadelphia, NKP/Cleveland-PRR

NKP 20217 bean meal Goodrich Bros, Winchester, IN NKP/Portland-PRR
xBainbridge,In
NKP 17352 bean meal Urbana Mills, Urbana, OH NKP/Muncie-NYC
xTab


Re: injection molding tooling costs/Terry Wegman

Andy Carlson
 

Actually,
You may get your wish. There is some movement in this
moribund line. Perhaps a new owner??????
-Andy Carlson

--- Schuyler Larrabee <schuyler.larrabee@...>
wrote:


Paul LaCiura:

Wegmann and Lubliner collaborated on N&G Railway
Signal
Company, maker of HO and O gauge scale operating
railroad
signals back in the '70's.

*sigh*

I sure wish those were available again. The only
ones I've ever seen were firmly in the grasp of
other people . . .

SGL



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Re: injection molding tooling costs/Terry Wegman

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Paul LaCiura:

Wegmann and Lubliner collaborated on N&G Railway Signal
Company, maker of HO and O gauge scale operating railroad
signals back in the '70's.

*sigh*

I sure wish those were available again. The only ones I've ever seen were firmly in the grasp of
other people . . .

SGL


Re: 1937 AAR BOX CAR

Andy Carlson
 

Just about EVERY road except for the GN.
-Andy Carlson

--- William Keene <wakeene@...> wrote:

Hello Group,

I just came across a stash of unbuilt kits labeled
as 1937 AAR Box Car
by Innovative Model Works deep in my model railroad
storage cabinet.
While one of the kits is lettered SP, the remainder
of the stash of 8
or 10 kits are undecorated. Can anyone in the group
provide prototype
information as to which railroads owned these cars?

Thanks, in advance, for any info.
-- Bill Keene
Irvine, CA



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Re: MONON Boxcars 1-500 compared to B&M's #7400-74499 series #7400-74499

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Montford Switzer wrote:

Mike:

First, look as when the Monon bought steel boxcars. The second group of
steel cars (1 - 500) was coming on line at about the time of Bill's
data. That second group still made the total less than 1000. The wood
boxcar fleet was in bad shape and it is doubtful they ran far from home
in very large numbers.
About the same time in the Spring of 1947 when Pullman-Standard built MONON boxcars #1-500 at their Michigan City plant, the B&M had 500 40' boxcars built there, too. Rather than accepting delivery on the B&M, the railroad opted to accept them in Michigan City, and they were sent to sundry locations around Chicago for their first loads.

B&M's #74000-74499 series were clearly intended to serve as B&M's contribution to the national boxcar pool; they had been fined by the ICC in March 1947 for failing to deliver the specified number of empty boxcars to the NYC and CP as they had been ordered to by the AAR's Car Service Bureau.

I suspect that the MONON bought the #1-500 series for the same reason as the B&M albeit without the kick of an AAR Car Order. The MONON like the B&M could get by reloading empty foreign boxcars. The difference between the MONON and the B&M was the access to Michigan City plus John Barringer's PR awareness.

Tim Gilbert


Re: 1937 AAR BOX CAR

Mark Heiden
 

Hi Bill,

There were quite a few railroads that owned 1937 AAR boxcars. I
recommend you check out the 1937 AAR boxcar list on the Steam Era
Freight Cars website. It's at:

http://www.steamfreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/1937aarmain.html

Going by sheer numbers, I'd recommend detailing and painting one for
Canadian National. They had something like 10,000 of these cars with
numerous variations in ends, roofs and lettering.

Mark Heiden

--- In STMFC@..., William Keene <wakeene@j...> wrote:

Hello Group,

I just came across a stash of unbuilt kits labeled as 1937 AAR Box
Car
by Innovative Model Works deep in my model railroad storage cabinet.
While one of the kits is lettered SP, the remainder of the stash of
8
or 10 kits are undecorated. Can anyone in the group provide
prototype
information as to which railroads owned these cars?

Thanks, in advance, for any info.
-- Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


1937 AAR BOX CAR

William Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Hello Group,

I just came across a stash of unbuilt kits labeled as 1937 AAR Box Car by Innovative Model Works deep in my model railroad storage cabinet. While one of the kits is lettered SP, the remainder of the stash of 8 or 10 kits are undecorated. Can anyone in the group provide prototype information as to which railroads owned these cars?

Thanks, in advance, for any info.
-- Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


Re: Bil Darnaby's List of 1949 Boxcar Movements from Swift's Soy Bean Processing Operation in Frankfort IN

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Mike Aufderheide wrote:

Tim,

Thanks for the information. I haven't done it, but it
will be interesting to see if the Monon boxcar
percentage in this log matched the national despite
being on the home road.
Mike,

The ICC did not include the MONON in its Operating Stats of Large Steam RR's so I cannot tell you what the percentage of home road cars to total cars on line was for that line. I cannot even tell you what the Daily Average of Total Cars on the MONON was in any year.

On December 31, 1947, the MONON reported to the ICC that they owned 989 boxcars, 72 flats and 1,161 hoppers & gons for a total of 2,222 freight cars. I have no idea of what percentage those 2,222 cars were of the Daily Average of Total Freight Cars on the MONON, but I suspect that the number of total cars on the MONON was in excess of 2,500.

I have no idea of what how many boxcars, both home and foreign-owned, flats, hoppers & gons, stock cars, reefers tank cars, etc. were part of the daily average of total cars on the MONON in 1947 or 1948 (or for any other year). I suspect, however, that in 1947-48, the MONON owned less boxcars than were total home and foreign boxcars on the MONON - this is pretty much my gut feel based upon observation of other roads as they correlate with what traffic I think the MONON had.

Given this, how many boxcars were there that you could use to get the January 1, 1948 19.6% national average of home road boxcars to estimate the number of MONON boxcars at home?


The log covers the middle division between Lafayette
and Bloomington. The first entry is from 8/21/48 and
the last I have input is 12/9/48. About a third of
the trains are locals, a third through-freights and a
third extras (likely through as well) This covers
about 23 trains and 690 cars. I have about half of
what I copied at the Monon Society put into excel.
Much of what remains are coal trains on the Midland
branch. If this is useful to anyone, I'd be happy to
post it.
I don't think the STMFC's Files has room for your EXCEL spreadsheet. I, for one, would be interested in seeing it.

No doubt if I get it that I will cross reference with a contemporary ORER, classify car types, and regionalize the ownership, separate loads vs. empties, and north vs. southbounds for each car reported. Those would be the least massaging I would do. And then I would aggregate so that I can summarize and analyze the data. This is more or less what I have done with UP, SOU and T&NO Wheel Reports I have parsed.

Take Care, Tim Gilbert


Pullman-Standard doors with separate tack boards

Mark Heiden
 

Hello everyone,

I'm working on a model of a Central of New Jersey 40ft PS-1 with an
8ft door, using the Intermountain kit. The kit comes with Superior
and Youngstown doors, but the CNJ cars had Pullman-Standard doors. A
quick check of available parts shows these doors with molded on tack
boards. I haven't seen the Intermountain door, part number P40400-51.
Does anyone know if these doors have molded on or separate tack boards?

Thanks,
Mark Heiden


Re: RP CYC 12

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Oct 12, 2005, at 7:16 AM, Bill Welch wrote:

A friend in Connecticut received their copy last week. I am in Northern
Virginia, and mine has not come yet.
Bill, maybe there's a problem getting Yankee publications across the Mason-Dixon line. I don't have my copy yet, either, but I'm at the extreme end of the Pony Express, so it's probably in the saddlebag of some poor USPS guy urging his lathered-up horse across the northern Nevada desert (whatever happened to RPO cars?).

Richard Hendrickson


Re: injection molding tooling costs/Terry Wegman

buchwaldfam <duff@...>
 

So.... is it possible to get some manufacturer to produce a
model of a certain prototype by convincing him that you are tooling up
such a model yourself? In that case, I'm right in the middle of
tooling for a Milwaukee Road Rib Side caboose. Pre-oil furnace. ;>

Phil Buchwald

--- In STMFC@..., timboconnor@c... wrote:
Long ago and
far away an independent toolmaker had done wonderful tooling for a
PFE R-40-23 reefer but a vendor found out about it and rushed a kit
into production.... and that pretty much killed off that toolmaker's biz
from what I heard. (I may have left out few salient details.)


Re: Bil Darnaby's List of 1949 Boxcar Movements from Swift's Soy Bean Processing Operation in Frankfort IN

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Montford Switzer wrote:

Responding to Tim Gilbert:

I would make the same argument for why there so few boxcars owned by
railroads of the Great Lakes Region (NYC, WAB, ERIE, DL&W, etc.. The CIL

was part of the Central East Region.). This works only if there was an
ample supply of empty boxcars in Frankfort. If this supply was
critically low, then empty boxcars of the Great Lakes Roads and the
MONON would be hoarded. At Frankfort, the supply of empty boxcars were
augmented by cars released from the NKP's Frankfort Car Shops.
Mont responded:


I believe the NKP traffic balance was primarily westbound which would
cause the west end of the system to generate empties. Since Frankfort
was a major west end terminal for the NKP it seems that an abundant
supply of empties from all sorts of roads would be available.
Between 1946 and 1950 per the ICC's OPERATING STATISTICS OF LARGE STEAM RR's, the NKP's eastbound loaded freight car miles as a percent of total loaded car miles was 65.5% in 1946, 65.0% in 1947, 64.0% in 1948, 61.4% in 1949 and 58.2% in 1950 - these percentages reflect the effect of the W&LE which began to be consolidated with the NKP staring in 1949. The difference between east and westbound percent loaded car miles of total car miles is reflected below:

PERCENT LOADED FREIGHT CAR MILES
Year Eastbound Westbound Both Directions
1946 89.6% 49.9% 70.3%
1947 87.8% 48.0% 68.1%
1948 86.5% 51.2% 69.3%
1949 78.2% 50.7% 64.7%
1950 75.7% 56.8% 66.5%

Overall, more empties were going westbound than eastbound on through trains through Frankfort.

(Incidentally, the MONON was never considered to be a Large Steam RR by the ICC so I don't know its operating statistics unlike the NKP.)

Mont wrote:


Incidentally, MONON #1 was in Frankfort on January 10th, 1948 loaded
with drugs loaded at Bloomfield NJ and routed
ERIE-Lima-NKP-TRRA-SSW-Corsicana-T&NO-El Paso-SP-San Francisco.

Do you think #1 was an accurate summary of freight car activity or
something the RR PR departments tampered with as they saw fit. I know
the MONON did several photos Op's with #1 even if it wasn't there. They
just took a similar car and re-numbered it. We MONON modelers finally
caught on after we modeled the wrong door a few times.
No doubt the numbering of MONON #1 was a publicity stunt by John Barringer. #1's itinerary, however, as published in the ad on pages 56-57 of the September 1948 TRAINS, however, was fact. Was #1's itinerary a "typical" one for a boxcar in 1947-1948? No it was not, but it was not too far off the "typical" boxcar in 1947-48.

The "average" boxcar in the US traveled about 22,000 miles per year of which 75-80% of those miles were loaded. The "average" boxcar was loaded 25 different times a year.

In comparison, CIL #1 traveled about 27,000 miles with over 95% of those miles being loaded. CIL #1 was loaded about 33 times with 20 different commodities, and traveled in 36 different states by 41 different railroads. This is not photographic evidence, but results of tabulations from the data in the TRAINS ad.

Modelers of the MONON RR operations should not be that concerned about CIL #1 because it was on its home road only about 500 miles in the June 1947 to June 1948 period. Those miles included the initial load of merchandise from Crawfordsville to Louisville (L&N) on June 13-17, 1947, and between December 17 and December 24, 1947 when #1 carried a load of syrup which was loaded on the B&O Chicago Terminal in Chicago for a consignee served by the Indianapolis Union RR. (On December 26th, it was loaded with auto parts on the IURR for delivery on the ERIE in Bloomfield NJ.) CIL #1 only returned to the MONON in June 1948 because Management asked the B&O to return the car empty so it could be gussied up for the Chicago Rail Fair.

Mont wrote:


Also, no 1 carried just about all of the paint schemes so it got
repainted more often than most.
After CIL #1 stint at the Chicago Rail Fair, I don't know what happened to #1.

I wrote:


Coke and Coal, I assume, were carried in hoppers which had much lower
percent loaded of total car miles than boxcars (55% vs. 76%) which
greatly reduced the opportunities for reloading empties before they were

returned to the mines or ovens; thus, the percent of hoppers on home
road lines of total hoppers on the MONON was greater than for boxcars. I

assume foundry sand was bagged and loaded into boxcars as were the TV
Cabinets. Were some of these commodities terminated on other roads? If
so, I would expect the MONON lost control of the routing of these
boxcars when they were unloaded just as they lost control of CIL #1 once

it was delivered to the L&N in Louisville on June 17th, 1947.
Mont responded:

If it was Indiana coal from on line mines I would think most of it ran
in MONON hoppers. Although I don't have specifics I believe during that
period there was a law that state supported institutions had to burn
Indiana coal.
The use of the home road hoppers serving mines on the home road was the usual practice throughout the country albeit there were some exceptions.

Mont wrote:

Coke was handled in special cars. In the late 1940's they were
converted composite gons and composite boxcars. Both looked like stock
cars without roofs. Later they went to steel gondolas with open top
lift out containers.
I'm not positive, but I think the sand was shipped in bulk in boxcars.
Later covered hoppers took over.
I wrote:

What happened to boxcars carrying newsprint when they were unloaded?
Were they returned to their owners empty, or were they reloaded with
product, and routed wherever? There were no guarantees that GTW boxcars
would be returned to the GTW once the newsprint was unloaded
particularly in times when there were boxcar shortages. If the GTW
wanted newsprint cars to return, CN cars should be used - assuming that
the newsprint came from Canada.
Mont responded:

I'm not sure what happened to the GTW cars when empty in Indianapolis.
Freight to and from Indianapolis not balanced so outbound load
opportunities were not great. Probably the best bet for a load
northbound was grain and then only in season.
If no loads were available in Indianapolis, the GTW boxcars would have been returned empty towards the GTW. These boxcars could be plucked from trains on their way home, reloaded and routed to God knows where much like the NKP did with CIL #1 around Erie PA in August 1947 when #1 was loaded with tomato juice for Nashville TN.

Mont later amended his statement about GTW boxcars carrying newsprint to CN and CP newsprint cars.

Tim Gilbert


Re: 1930-1960 GBW boxcar herald color scheme

Andy Laurent <arlaurent@...>
 

Phil,

I think the photographs in my collection set the scene for a 1950s
time frame pretty clearly and show an 85/15 ratio for 'black
background heralds' to 'white-line-only heralds' on boxcars. I think
the red/white to white line herald ratio was closer to 30/70 on
hoppers and gondolas (with the KGB 400-series being all red/white),
but not boxcars.

I have never seen a color photograph of a boxcar with the
red/white/black herald, only hoppers and gondolas.

Here is the data I've collected:

White line only herald (no black background)/reweigh date:
GBW 8150 6-67
KGB 5506 10-62
KGB 5538 7-69

Black background herald:
GBW 6056 7-65
GBW 6062 1-52
GBW 6120 5-52
GBW 6144 3-62
GBW 6156 7-60
GBW 8042 9-54
GBW 8100 5-66
GBW 8102 3-60
GBW 8142 ?
GBW 8172 7-60
GBW 8176 7-65
GBW 14018 ?
GBW 15030 4-58
GBW 15056 ?
KGB 5028 ?
KGB 5514 ?
KGB 5518 10-56
KGB 5524 9-55

The GB&W lettering under the ladders on the right side of the car
was absolutely the rule on GBW and KGB wood outside braced boxcars.
I've never seen otherwise.

Andy Laurent

--- In STMFC@..., "buchwaldfam" <duff@g...> wrote:

GBW #8020 is in the collection at North Freedom. This past
summer, you really couldn't see any herald on the doors, at least
enough to tell what color the heralds were. I was hoping to
confirm
what a late paint job would have used. (It doesn't appear that the
car was repainted since it arrived at the museum.) Sounds like
black
or red would be a coin toss for a mid-'50s era model. (?) If I
used
the black herald, I'd probably want to weather the model quite a
bit.
Also, it was interesting that there are the remains of the
words "GREEN BAY AND WESTERN" to the right of the door on each
side.
This lettering extends UNDER the ladder grabs. Was this a typical
scheme on wooden GBW cars? This lettering was in addition to the
heralds and the reporting marks.

Regards,
Phil Buchwald

--- In STMFC@..., "Mark Mathu" <mark@m...> wrote:

Was that a red or black rectangle herald on the door?


Re: Bil Darnaby's List of 1949 Boxcar Movements from Swift's Soy Bean Processing Operation in Frankfort IN

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Mike Aufderheide wrote:

From the 1948 Monon conductor's log I have the
following Canadian cars:

CN B 476658 XB Southbound to Limedale (PRR)
CN B 523832 XB Northbound to Laf. Jct. (NKP WAB NYC)
CN B 528176 CORN Southbound to Louisville
CN ? 464091 ? Southbound to Bloomington
CP B 246493 R WOOL Northbound to S. Hammond (Chicago)
CP ? 180528 RUBBER Northbound to Michigan City (CSSSB
PM NYC)
CP B 247203 PAPER Southbound to Bloomington
Mike,

How many of these cars above can we assume were loaded in Canada, or terminated in Canada? Plus were the two empties being routed towards Canada? With this data, we can probably assume that the paper load of CP Box #247203 came from Canada? The Northbound Rubber Load, I assume was being routed MONON-CSSB-South Bend-PM-Buffalo-NYC which would be in compliance with the "Rule" because of the PM transit through Ontario. The empties I am not concerned with because it was still possible for the cars to be reloaded for Canada.

Tim Gilbert