Date   

Union Pacific B-50-19 boxcar details

Mark Heiden
 

Hello everyone,

I have some questions concerning Union Pacific B-50-19 class boxcars,
number series 182812-183999 (1937 AAR design).

1. The table of as-built 1937 AAR boxcars on the Steam Era Freight
Cars website lists the brakewheels for these cars as a mix of
Universal, Miner and Ajax. Does anyone know which series of cars
received Ajax brakewheels?

2. These cars were built in 1936-1937. Should the Ajax brakewheel be
the early model, with the four center spokes?

3. What sort of trucks are appropriate? Prototype photos show trucks
that look like a Proto 2000 spring plankless truck, or an
Accurail "Bettendorf" truck.

Thanks,
Mark Heiden


Re: Frico PS2

ATSF1226
 

Probably grain, Corn, Wheat or Rice. Might have been Cement or Sand.

George A. Walls



I have a Kadee Frisco PS2 (No. 84084, if that matters). What would
the Frisco have been shipping in
these cars?

SGL


Valley Forge RPM Meet info

Larry Kline
 

Information and a registration form for the Valley Forge RPM Meet is on
the Philly NMRA web site:
http://www.phillynmra.org/RPMMeet.html

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA


Re: harriman codes

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Allen Rueter wrote:
Would B2 be considered a Harriman Standard code?
Code for what? I don't recognize it.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Automobiles by rail - a question for Tim Gilbert

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Malcolm Laughlin wrote:
We know that in the 50's the railroads were rapidly losing the movement of setup automobiles to trucks. From what I remember, there was very little if any rail movement of finished automobiles remaining. But with the advent of the multi-level auto carrier in 1959 (?) the rail movement of autos rapidly grew.
By the late fifties, the railroad share of complete auto shipment had fallen to about 10 percent of the total production. The introduction of auto racks raised that sharply, and by around 1964 or so, it had risen to almost 50 percent.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


UTLX19656 PRM cover photo

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

I was once again enjoying the Speedwitch magazine Prototype Railroad Modeling this afternoon on my way home from work, when something unexpected happened. I've become so used to never looking at the back of magazines (can't bear another MRC add; still miss the PFM adds of my youth) that I realized I hadn't seen the excellent prototype photos on the back cover.

On the lower half of the rear cover is a photo dated 1939 by Lee Russell - part of the Office of War Information, Library of Congress collection. The photo shows UTLX19656, a four horizontal course tank car. I don' think its been discussed here before - my apologies if I missed it!

As I look at it, I am thinking either Tichy or P2K 10000 gallon tank - on a kitbashed or scratch frame. I'm wondering whether there is data to identify the capacity of the car? I'm also wondering about the tank's length and diameter. And how many similar cars in the UTLX fleet?

Anyone have any answers?

Rob Kirkham


Frico PS2

Schuyler Larrabee
 

I have a Kadee Frisco PS2 (No. 84084, if that matters). What would the Frisco have been shipping in
these cars?

SGL


Re: harriman codes

Allen Rueter <allen@...>
 

Would B2 be considered a Harriman Standard code?

Thanks

8<

I am probably using a narrower definition of "Automobile" car than you.
My criterion is the Mechanical Designation as per the ORER's. If a
boxcar is designated XMR, XAP, XAR, XA, XF, etc., I classify it as an
"Automobile Car." If it is designated "XM," its a general service
boxcar. I have no other way of determining whether a "XM" car was in
special or general service - ditto for the "Automobile Cars." You
probably use the Harriman Standard "A" and "B" prefixes as your
differentiation between "General Service" & "Automobile" cars.
--
------
Allen P Rueter o0000o Phone: 314/935-6429 email allen :) artsci.wustl.edu
.oO* there are at least three sides to every issue.


Re: Fraley's reports content?

Allen Rueter <allen@...>
 

Are there station numbers (destinations) in Fraley's reports?

Thanks
--
------
Allen P Rueter o0000o Phone: 314/935-6429 email allen :) artsci.wustl.edu
.oO* there are at least three sides to every issue.


Re: Digest Number 3011

Bruce Smith
 

On Mon, March 6, 2006 8:33 pm, Malcolm Laughlin wrote:

I hope it is evident to everyone that the fact that a
car had an auto car type designation did not necessarily
mean it was in auto service.
Indeed, for one car, see the example of PRR X31 59944 in PRR's wartime
advertising:
http://prr.railfan.net/images/AD_DiaryOfAWartimeFreightCar_PRR59944.jpg

This class XA criss-crossed the country from May 23, 1943 to September 10,
1943 with loads including:
ship parts (Pittsburgh to Seattle)
wood pulp (Seattle to Everett Wash)
paper (Wachusett, Mass to Washington DC)
airplane parts (Baltimore MD to Wichita Kan)
hospital supplies (Wichita Kan to Pleasanton CA?)
lumber (Feather River to Chicago)

Of course, the lack of autos isn't a fair comparison, as production was
suspended. However, XA cars were still in high demand to transport
military vehicles.

One of my favorite loads for an automobile car was the US Army's first
jet. Films show it being unloaded from an L&N end-door equipped 50'
double door automobile car.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: Automobiles by rail - a question for Tim Gilbert

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Malcolm Laughlin wrote:

We know that in the 50's the railroads were rapidly losing the movement of setup automobiles to trucks. From what I remember, there was very little if any rail movement of finished automobiles remaining. But with the advent of the multi-level auto carrier in 1959 (?) the rail movement of autos rapidly grew.
In 1959 as part of my summer job in the Market Research department at the NYC I analyzed automobile sales by SMAS in all of the northeast. This project led to the purchase of the flexi-van auto carriers that went into service in 1960. My summer job in 1960 was in the clearance bureau out on the road measuring clearances to verify that we could handle the auto racks. Beginning in late 1960 the NYC auto traffic grew rapidly. My recollectionis that thenFrisco was one of the first to handle those cars from 1959.
Tim, can you provide any statistics on the actual movement of automobiles in those years, or is it buried in aggregate satatistics that also include the auto parts traffic ?
Malcolm,

I can give you tons for selected years between 1940 and 1960 as per the ICC's "Blue Books." These are tons originated for passenger automobiles, freight automobiles (I assume "trucks"), and Vehicle Parts in thousands of tons.

Year Autos Trucks Parts
1940 2,228 258 4,773
1944 294 1,961 4,834
1946 1,553 850 4,180
1947 2,082 618 6,226
1949 2,083 499 7,456
1950 2,287 480 9,681
1951 1,586 627 8,404
1952 1,020 604 7,354
1954 982 321 9,089
1955 1,593 301 12,353
1956 1,058 237 9,617
1960 1,317 127 10,393

In Thousands of Originated Carloads (not in the Blue Books, but from other sources)
1947 306 71 332
1960 150 12 592

I don't have the 1945, 1948, 1953, 1957, 1958, 1959 or later Blue Books. If you want data from 1956-1966, you may want to check the Walker Transportation Collection at the Beverly MA Historical Society for their "Blue Books." Their web site is at http://www.walkertrans.org/ , but check first whether they still have those volumes. They are open Wednesday Evenings between 7 and 10, and as a neighbor, you ought to check them out anyway.

In the Blue Books, the tonnage data is presented in Table 51.

Hope this helps, Tim Gilbert


Savannah, GA Prototype Modelers meet added to the Steam Freight Cars web site

Rob Adams
 

I posted another update to the Steam Era Freight Cars site this evening. See <http://www.steamfreightcars.com>

Best regards, Rob Adams

--
Rob Adams
Wellman, IA
steamera@netins.net
Modeling CB&Q, CRI&P and Wabash operations in Keokuk, IA,
the Wabash Bluffs, IL to Keokuk branch, and the CB&Q's Keokuk & Western branch, circa 1938
<http://www.KeokukandWesternRR.com>


Re: "Standards" and AAR voting procedures

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Mar 6, 2006, at 11:18 AM, Charlie Vlk wrote:

Richard-
Contrast the PRR position in the Industry with that of the Burlington.
While much smaller and a lot less vocal, the Mechanical Officers of
the Q
were well-respected and the Q's technical
leadership was widespread.
The Q was a training ground for many railroad executives.  Willard of
the
B&O was one that comes to mind.
I don't know if the Q was as influential in the freight car sector as
it was
in the materials testing, locomotive, and passenger car arenas, but
the
Aurora Shops had a very scientific organization that was probably as
good in
practice as anything the PRR purported to have.
This may all be true about the Q, but the railroad was hardly a
trendsetter where freight car design was concerned, being one of the
last major American railroads to adopt all steel construction. As late
as 1939 the Q was still building in its own shops large numbers of both
40' single door and 50' double door box cars that were of single wood
sheathed construction (though otherwise built to AAR standards).
Typically, their freight equipment was soundly but very conservatively
designed; they weren't leading any parades.

Of course, during the same period the PRR mechanical department's lofty
sense of their own superiority and importance prevented them from
learning anything about freight car design from anyone else, or even
learning anything from their own experience. For example, almost
decade after the Murphy panel and Viking corrugated steel roofs had
been introduced, and at a time when those roofs were being almost
universally applied to house cars by other RRs, the PRR persisted in
building cars with a riveted roof of their own design which dated back
to the X29 box car and was notorious for being prone to leak. Go
figure.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: My last posting should have been "Some observations on car types and the RER

Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


Re: Digest Number 3011

Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

I hope it is evident to everyone that the fact that a
car had an auto car type designation did not necessarily
mean it was in auto service. That was to some aextent an
artifact of the auto industry being the first to make
extensive use of specially equipped cars. A car could
have been designated XAP and ahve had racks for carrying
some commodity not at all related to autos.


Tim Gilbert wrote:
Ø Regardless, my definition of a "Special Service" Boxcar
Ø is narrower than yours. I do not have the knowledge (nor
Ø am I inclined to learn it) about how each and every road
Ø distinguished between the two -

Which doesn't really matter because as far as use was concerned
it was what the RER said it was.

Ø so I will continue to use the ORER's Mechanical Designations
Ø as a guide to try to find out the differences in reloading
Ø rates in my analyses of Wheel Reports and their equivalents.

As Tim O'Connor pointed out there is a problem of statistical
significance, and unless you are going to analyze hundreds of
wheel reports you can't draw valid conclusions about a region
or even a large railroad. While it may be interesting to see
what happened on a piece of a railroad in a small time frame,
one shouldn't try to draw much more general conclusions from them.

Ø Arbitrary?!! I guess you have no confidence in the Mechanical
Ø Designations of the ORER's nor their definitions. The ORER's
Ø may be even better indicators of boxcars in "special service"
Ø at the date of that ORER than the Harriman Standard Freight
Ø Car Classification system which seems to be stuck forever with
Ø the as built classification.

It would be absurd not to have confidence in what the ORER said.
It was the official document stating what a car was. For example,
if a car had racks for specific commodites, should be XP, butnit
was listed as XL in the RER, then XL it was for the purposes of
tariff application and car service rules.



Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Automobiles by rail - a question for Tim Gilbert

Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

We know that in the 50's the railroads were rapidly losing the movement of setup automobiles to trucks. From what I remember, there was very little if any rail movement of finished automobiles remaining. But with the advent of the multi-level auto carrier in 1959 (?) the rail movement of autos rapidly grew.

In 1959 as part of my summer job in the Market Research department at the NYC I analyzed automobile sales by SMAS in all of the northeast. This project led to the purchase of the flexi-van auto carriers that went into service in 1960. My summer job in 1960 was in the clearance bureau out on the road measuring clearances to verify that we could handle the auto racks. Beginning in late 1960 the NYC auto traffic grew rapidly. My recollectionis that thenFrisco was one of the first to handle those cars from 1959.

Tim, can you provide any statistics on the actual movement of automobiles in those years, or is it buried in aggregate satatistics that also include the auto parts traffic ?


Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


Re: ORER

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Malcolm Laughlin wrote:
The ORER was (and still is) a tariff. It was published on behalf of all of the railroads and was referenced in most other railroad tariffs. It was the official reference for any tariff item that referenced car type, dimensions, capacity, car number, etc.
Malcolm is right about this, as he is that cars not in the ORER could be regarded as non-existent. I was told by Steve Peery, who oversaw the submission of the SP entries to the ORER in the 1970s, that there were penalties for inaccurate car information, and that every effort was made in his office to check every single dimension of every single car group in the entries submitted for publication. That's not to say there were no errors, only that they were hardly casual errors.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


ORER

Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

From: "Dave Nelson" <muskoka@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Boxcar Utilization - Definitions
ljack70117@adelphia.net wrote:
I have a question. Where did the ORER get the information the
printed?

From each railroad.
======================

Although Dave's response is right, I'd like nto expand on it a bit.

The ORER was (and still is) a tariff. It was published on behalf of all of the railroads and was referenced in most other railroad tariffs. It was the official reference for any tariff item that referenced car type, dimensions, capacity, car number, etc.

The railroads were motivated to keep it up to date for cars added because for tariff purposes a car did not exist if it wasn't in the RER. Cars in the RER did not necessarily exist. When a railroad got new cars, it would publish the whole series even if it might be some months before all were delivered. Similarly, there was no particular reason for a railroad to rush to delete cars from the register after they were taken out of service, except for the cost of the space that they paid for in the RER. So if a railroad had an entry for a hundred cars and all but a few were scrapped, there was no benefit from updating the RER until all were gone and the line for that series could be deleted.


Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


Re: Looking For a Room at Valley Forge Meet

Tim O'Connor
 

Jeff

I missed the info about this meet. Can you forward the
meet information to me? Thanks.

Tim O'Connor

P.S. Are you going to take the train?

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "englishintroy" <englij@rpi.edu>
Procrastinator that I am, I'm only just now looking into making
arrangements to attend the prototype modelers meet in Malvern, PA near
the end of this month. I'd be looking to stay Friday-Saturday.

Is there anybody who has a room reserved and is looking for a roommate
on those dates?

Please direct responses to me off-list.

Jeff English
Troy, New York
home of the Gilbert Car & Manufacturing Co., who made many fine
passenger cars up until their demise in the panic of 1893; don't know
if they made any freight cars but if so they'd have been STMFCs for sure


Looking For a Room at Valley Forge Meet

Jeff English
 

Procrastinator that I am, I'm only just now looking into making
arrangements to attend the prototype modelers meet in Malvern, PA near
the end of this month. I'd be looking to stay Friday-Saturday.

Is there anybody who has a room reserved and is looking for a roommate
on those dates?

Please direct responses to me off-list.

Jeff English
Troy, New York
home of the Gilbert Car & Manufacturing Co., who made many fine
passenger cars up until their demise in the panic of 1893; don't know
if they made any freight cars but if so they'd have been STMFCs for sure

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