Nice plug for our cars, Andy! What Andy didn't mention is that they come with renumbering decals
done Accurail style, which means on a color background which EXACTLY matches the cars. So well, in
fact, that Andy tried to renumber a car he'd already renumbered! ;^)

SGL

Shawn Beckert wrote, in part:

I have a
great deal of resin in the closet, all unbuilt. And I've been
beating the drums for a one-piece X-3 underframe simply
because I *am* very uneasy about trying to assemble all those
bits and pieces in the Sunshine kit. Too bad, because I'd buy
a lot more X-3's (and X-5's) if it weren't for that one
stumbling block :-(

Shawn:

Here is your assignment:

By Sunday night, take out one of those kits and assemble the underframe. No excuses. Like Nike
says: Just DO IT!

SGL

Tim O. said:

I put a thicker floor in a Sunshine 52' gondola and it's actually too
heavy by half. It was the thinnest lead I could find at the time.

Tim, as Bill Darnaby described, the lead is quite malleable and is easily deformed to the size and shape you want. I conducted an entertaining proof of same in making lead blocks to fit into all the gaps in the underframe (center sill, etc.) in the DA kit for the GS gondola. I could still only get about an ounce into the car that way, so had to resort to lead sheet beneath the drop doors over the trucks.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history

I agree to that one. I don't even like them on the much vaulted
Kadee cars. It has been one of my biggest gripes about RTRs only
with no kits available - the necessity of removing that crap from an
otherwise finished model.

Jerry Glow


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, timboconnor@c... wrote:

Dennis Storzek wrote

Underbody: one-piece brake piping assembly (similar to

Branchline)

Still being debated.

Let me vote for NO BRAKE RODS. I hate that plastic junk! If you

want to

have cast pipes from AB valve to reservoir, etc I can take it or

leave it...

I really like the Accurail box car underframes -- clean -- which

makes them

very easy to detail with 3rd party parts. I hope the gondola

underframe

will be like that too.

Tim O'Connor

FWIW I installed lead sheet between the underframe and floor in all of the Sunshine gons I built this past summer. The sheet lead started out at .040" thick and I was able to pound it out to around .020" using and old section of rail as an anvil and a 3 lb hammer. This diminished the interior height by only 2-3 inches.

Bill Darnaby

Below is a scan of the downtown portion.
http://www.drgw.org/data/passenger/Birm.jpg

There are no ads, or anything else that may
provide date info - aside from the railroads,
street car lines, bus lines, golf course holes
(yes, direction length and holes), and such.

t 04:57 PM 11/29/2005, you wrote:

Dennis Storzek wrote

Underbody: one-piece brake piping assembly (similar to Branchline)

Still being debated.

Tim replies...

Let me vote for NO BRAKE RODS. I hate that plastic junk! If you want to

have cast pipes from AB valve to reservoir, etc I can take it or leave it... I
really like the Accurail box car underframes -- clean -- which makes them very
easy to detail with 3rd party parts. I hope the gondola underframe will be
like that too.

Tim O'Connor<

I agree with Tim, I would rather that you gave us great tooling for the
brake components than even offer the rods and levers. There are times that I
build the brake components (rods and levers) from simple styrene rod and styrene
strips because I want the detail there and I don't want to spend a lot of
time on this area of the model, and other time where it just has to be brass and
Grandt Line parts, no exception. Then there are times when it doesn't help
if it were pre configured as I Anspauch where the conglomeration is all on one
side anyway. I too like the simplicity of the underframes as there are
now... I am just wondering, Dennis, is it that much more costly to tool alternate
inserts for the ends now rather than coming back in later to add on? If there
is no cost savings up front I would agree why not wait and let the tooling
pay for itself.

Some folks don't understand that there are some of us out here that don't
mind doing the work on a kit conversion from a styrene kit and would prefer to
have several, shall we say, to recondition at an affordable price and do it
all in our own good time. I guess I have been one of those that just got
burned on resin kits. Out of the four I owned three had fit issues like sides of
different lengths and well I just don't buy them. I kept the fourth.

My free time (as little as I may have) I choose the project and the platform
it starts from. I just revel in good modeling like that of Bob Chapman's
with his latest work on N&W hoppers (sometimes seen over Cheyenne on a clear
day) in Mainline Modeler. And I just sat down and re-read Mont Switzer's
articles on the PRR/TTX F39 flatcar article in Mainline Modeler thinking of how can
I better my Mentor...? "Use the Force Luke"... 3^) Perhaps if I get John
Hitzman to burn me some styrene to better the rub rail supports that I could
add to a piece of styrene rod... now that just might work... For me it's more
about the road traveled not just the origin...

Dennis, just give us a good platform we'll take it from there, thanks!

Greg Martin

Jim

I think we've discussed this before; McMaster/Carr sells thin lead
sheet, which elevates the Sunshine floor only a tiny bit... although
I have not used this antimony alloy myself -- it is .032" thick or
just over 1/32".

I put a thicker floor in a Sunshine 52' gondola and it's actually too
heavy by half. It was the thinnest lead I could find at the time. If
you can't find the lead, Red Caboose sells their steel weights
separately. I don't know how thick they are.

Tim O.

Dennis Storzek wrote

In your dreams! :-) Seriously, the people who should do this one are
Intermountain, since they built a tool with three side actions at 120
degrees from each other to do their current tank car...

Ok, good point. Too expensive. So how about something I can really
use -- a 50 foot mechanical reefer? Preferably one that has never been
done before. My preference would be a Santa Fe because no one has
done a model of a Santa Fe RP, ever. My second choice would be NP...
Of course you can paint them however you like! ;-)

If that seems too similar to the Athearn reefer (and Walthers already
announced an FGE reefer), then a plug door 40 foot steel ice reefer
would be a good item... And you could get away with a heck of a lot of
paint schemes on those. Just do the same PC&F car Sunshine did; I
think Martin found a half dozen legit lettering schemes.

Tim O.

P.S. Although the new 70 ton AAR hopper is nice, I have a major
objection to it -- the doors and Wine locks are cast together. This
is a problem since my favorite prototype had Enterprise hardware!
Looks like I'll be holding onto my Stewarts after all...

But it does have locks, somthing that an awful lot of hopper models
lack. Tim, do you shave the poor attempt at a Wine lock off the
Stewart hoppers? What are you using for the Enterprise winding shaft /
lock hardware?

Dennis Storzek







Yahoo! Groups Links

The Sunshine 40' gon I just finished has the interior floor as a separate
piece and as I remember all the Sunshine gons I've built are the same. It's
easy to put a weight inside before adding the floor. It's a choice between
compromising the accuracy underneath or having the floor be a little higher
than it should or building an accurate but lightweight car.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon

Dennis Storzek wrote

Underbody: one-piece brake piping assembly (similar to Branchline)

Still being debated.

Let me vote for NO BRAKE RODS. I hate that plastic junk! If you want to
have cast pipes from AB valve to reservoir, etc I can take it or leave it...
I really like the Accurail box car underframes -- clean -- which makes them
very easy to detail with 3rd party parts. I hope the gondola underframe
will be like that too.

Tim O'Connor

You read it here first.

Dennis Storzek
Accurail, Inc.







Yahoo! Groups Links

Dennis,

This has been a long rambling tread. Maybe I missed it, but what exact
prototype car is the model designed after?
Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA

But it does have locks, somthing that an awful lot of hopper models
lack. Tim, do you shave the poor attempt at a Wine lock off the
Stewart hoppers? What are you using for the Enterprise winding shaft /
lock hardware? Dennis Storzek

Dennis

Tichy sells very nice Enterprise details. Expensive, but what can I do?

Now, if you could just whip up a new mold and sell plain old doors with
separate Enterprise details, you'd make me a happy camper. :-)

Tim O.

I will try - there is the A &S - and the L&N and
the E & NB in that area. I will work on
scanning it - it is about 3' by 1' - and is awkward to handle.


At 04:57 PM 11/29/2005, you wrote:

Bob



It’s hard to say from a description. If there’s any chance of a scan of
the map or a portion thereof I may be able to help ­ sometimes the style
will help date it as much as anything else. Are there any
advertisements?



If you scan the Elyton area you may see reference to the ACL, AB&C or
AB&A Railroad. If ACL it’s definitely post-1946, if AB&C roughly late
20s to mid 40s and if AB&A up to about 1926 or so. Remember mapmakers
don’t always catch up with the reorganizations and re-namings of
chronically indigent railroads for some years so there’s a good bit of
flexibility in these dates.

Aidrian

Bob Webber

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, timboconnor@c... wrote:

Now here's something worthwhile to think about -- what freight
car types has Accurail not done yet? Tank cars? Flat cars? Let's
gently coax Dennis to consider a radial course tank car model of
a Pressed Steel or General American variety. Now THAT would
get my blood flowing!

In your dreams! :-) Seriously, the people who should do this one are
Intermountain, since they built a tool with three side actions at 120
degrees from each other to do their current tank car. Doing a radial
course tank would be easy in that mold, expensive otherwise.

P.S. Although the new 70 ton AAR hopper is nice, I have a major
objection to it -- the doors and Wine locks are cast together. This
is a problem since my favorite prototype had Enterprise hardware!
Looks like I'll be holding onto my Stewarts after all...

But it does have locks, somthing that an awful lot of hopper models
lack. Tim, do you shave the poor attempt at a Wine lock off the
Stewart hoppers? What are you using for the Enterprise winding shaft /
lock hardware?

Dennis Storzek

Andreas,

441 is right. Did it myself. Lots of work! Use a very sharp knife.

Manfred

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Andreas Kühnpast
<Andreas.Kuehnpast@t...> wrote:

Hello,

I am currently improving and correcting the detailing on a set of
ACCURAIL "Bettendorf" trucks. I would like to replace the brake

system

details cast into the sideframes with KADEE "brake pads" as

described in

this article by Ian Clasper:

http://www.steamfreightcars.com/modeling/articles/accuandrewsmain.html

I wonder whether the KADEE parts will fit over the truck bolsters

of the

"Bettendorf" trucks like they do over the bolsters of the ACCURAIL
Andrews trucks. Are the bolsters of the two ACCURAIL trucks

mentioned

identical?

Which of the two KADEE "brake pads" (# 441and 442) can be used for

this

technique?

http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page153a.htm
http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page153b.htm

Thanks for your support.

Andreas Kuehnpast

Not within realistic distance to make it worthwhile by itself. I know there are some downtown (Chicago). But getting there during the day may not be easy. I was hoping that by referencing the railroads & industries (and terminals) someone might have a clue as to a viable time span. If not, no biggie, there are other ways.


At 04:48 PM 11/29/2005, you wrote:

Are Sanborn maps available, where you are, for Birmingham?

Reason for the qualifier is that university libraries sometimes have
their local ones. For example, the University of Central Florida has
many Florida maps.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Bob Webber <no17@c...> wrote:

I'm attempting to establish the date of a Birmingham AL street map

I

have. Normally, this isn't the place for that, HOW ever, there is
some method to my alleged madness..

On this map, there appear the following railroads (including yards,
industrial plants, etc.): L&N, IC, Frisco, Southern, Central of GA,
Powderly car Lines, AGS RR, Bessemer Road, B'ham So RR, Emsley So.
RR, B.E.&B. RR, Thomas & Sayreton RR, SAL, Tenn. Coal & Iron,
Birmingham Mineral, and likely others that I haven't found
yet. Obviously (?) some are street railways or
interurbans. Terminal Station and L&N station are nicely laid out

as

are the Frisco and IC yards.

Among the industries are coal mines, Alice Furnace, Republic Iron

&

Steel, A.M. Steel & Wire, L&N shops, some other roundhouses by 3rd

&

36th, - a lot of detail that today's street maps don't impart. No
doubt that a lot of steam era freight cars made their way through

the

routes marked on the map - and the yards and industries.

This has to be before 1960. My guess is a quite a bit before. The
map is published by Faulkner Novelties and it is "Corrected to
Date" -though no date is given. It is in a brown folder and folds
out of it with an index.

Soooo.... if anyone has some decent ideas on the date (Bruce?)

please

email me off list - thanks!

Bob Webber

Bob Webber

Dennis:

Thank you for that post. That is about as straight as "straight
shooting" comes. I prefer separate grabs and ladders (I'm sure you knew
that), but I've become comfortable replacing the cast on versions and
even saving a quality paint job if I want the model bad enough.

Mont Switzer

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Wencl" <tdwencl@c...> wrote:

If I could add my personal wish list to the Accurail design it would
include:

Funny you should ask, as I'm just working on the tool design now.
Here's how it's shaping up:

- Body: interior rivet detail is a must.

Yup

- Ends: offer different types (dreadnaught, reversed dreadnaught,
etc.)

Separate parts to allow interior detail, but no plans for alternates,
at least not anytime soon.

- Removeable floor

Yup

- Weight provision: Provide a recessed area between the removeable
floor and body casting floor to conceal a thin sheet metal or lead
sheet weight (just like Red Caboose does on their GS gon. It's
really too bad Sunshine's model has no provision for this.)

Yup, sized for steel. Lead is a no-no, just ask the Govenor of California.

- Separate grab irons and ladders

Nope. It's out of charater with the market the Accurail line is
targeted at.

- Underbody: one-piece brake piping assembly (similar to Branchline)

Still being debated.

You read it here first.

Dennis Storzek
Accurail, Inc.

Bob



It’s hard to say from a description. If there’s any chance of a scan of
the map or a portion thereof I may be able to help – sometimes the style
will help date it as much as anything else. Are there any
advertisements?



If you scan the Elyton area you may see reference to the ACL, AB&C or
AB&A Railroad. If ACL it’s definitely post-1946, if AB&C roughly late
20s to mid 40s and if AB&A up to about 1926 or so. Remember mapmakers
don’t always catch up with the reorganizations and re-namings of
chronically indigent railroads for some years so there’s a good bit of
flexibility in these dates.



Aidrian