Date   

Re: Another IM ACF type 27 question

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jan 23, 2006, at 2:43 AM, Al Brown wrote:

In Henderson's "Classic Freight Cars, vol 2", p 19, there's an in-
service photo of BEPX 105 and 121, dated 1973. The tanks have four
bands. The trucks are a little hard to see, but look like
generic "Bettendorfs" (i.e. not National B-1s, and I think not
Dalmans either). By that date the brakes are AB; I don't know
whether they're original equipment.
Even more to the point, since Stefan was inquiring about Intermountain
Type 27 models (if I understood his post correctly), those cars are
AC&F Type 21s as modeled by Life-Like. In fact, all twenty of
Belcher's tank cars were Type 21; they did not own any Type 27s. Also,
note that in the 1973 photo in Henderson the cars do not have any of
the weight, tank test, and mechanical stenciling required for
interchange, so they could not have gone off-line at that time (though
their earlier ORER listings indicate that they may have been used in
interchange earlier in life).

Even so, I'd be willing to bet that those Belcher cars didn't stray
very far from Miami, and that the white-with-red-stenciling scheme was
only applied late in life when they may have been used exclusively in
in-plant service and never left Belcher's property. I certainly
wouldn't expect to find any evidence of one on, say, Sherman Hill,
during the steam era.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Sergent coupler experiments

Dennis Storzek <dstorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Spen Kellogg <spenkell@o...> wrote:

...If you were to replace the ball with an elongated shape, so
that its orientation could not change, then you probably could do as
you
suggest, if you could get the internal magnet powerful enough. I doubt
that HO couplers are large enough to allow this. O scale might, though.
How did Lionel make their couplers work? Was it the repelling or
attraction of magnetism?

Regards, Spen Kellogg
But that negates the beauty of Sergent's patented ball lock. Other
scale couplers that try to model the actual shape of the lock fail
because there is too much friction for the weight of the lock to
reliably overcome. Sergent's stainless steel ball has maximum weight
with minimum surface area, and therefore minimum friction. Turning the
ball into a cylinder goes in the opposite direction from that design goal.

Lionel couplers (at least the fifties era ones I'm familiar with) are
locked by a rod that is forced upward into the bottom of the coupler
by a spring. The rod is attached to a lever that runs back under the
axles, where it is close to the rails, and thus close to the
uncoupling magnet, but this design requires the coupler be attached to
the truck, not a problem in Lionel's scheme of things. It does add a
lot of extra metal to the bottom of the truck. An extra wide spring
plank, maybe?

Since sergent's coupler locking ball falls by gravity, I wonder if it
couldn't be raised by a mecanical cam, the same as a prototype bottom
operated Type E coupler, but the operating parts would be tiny. No,
smaller than tiny.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Sergent coupler experiments

Spen Kellogg <spenkell@...>
 

Thomas M. Olsen wrote:

Rob and Jared,

The couplers operate using a magnetized wand to lift the steel ball out of the lock block in the coupler head by magnetic attraction.. Why can't the ball and the wand be magnetized so that you could put the wand below the coupler head and have them repel rather than attract in the same fashion that placing the same poles of two magnets together cause them to repel?
Tom,

Magnets repel only when the same poles (ie: north or south) are pushed together. Even if you could magnetize the small ball in the coupler, there would be no way to ensure that the correct pole would be up. In fact, if there is enough room for the ball, I suspect that the wrong pole would rotate to the down side so that the magnet would always pull it down. If you were to replace the ball with an elongated shape, so that its orientation could not change, then you probably could do as you suggest, if you could get the internal magnet powerful enough. I doubt that HO couplers are large enough to allow this. O scale might, though. How did Lionel make their couplers work? Was it the repelling or attraction of magnetism?

Regards, Spen Kellogg


Re: Couplers - prototype drawings including major measurements

Larry Kline
 

As I posted yesterday, there are drawings for the type E coupler on line.
1) Go to: http://www.mcconway.com/rail_prod/couplers.htm
2) Click on the _Type E Couplers_ link
3) Go to the _Type E Couplers List_ tab, an E60DE coupler drawing will come up.

Have Type couplers changed in the last 75 years? Looking quickly, the drawing referenced above appears to be the same as the Type E coupler coupler drawing on page 739 of the 53 CBCyc. I would be interested to know if there are any differences.

There is also lots of other information on the McConway and Tourley web site including photos of couplers and coupler parts. McConway and Tourley has been making couplers in Pittsburgh for over 130 years. They have hosted tours for us several times in the last 15 years.

Patrick Wider wrote:
I can load a 150K GIF file of a scan of an AAR Type E coupler diagram from a CBC.

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA


Re: Another IM ACF type 27 question

al_brown03
 

In Henderson's "Classic Freight Cars, vol 2", p 19, there's an in-
service photo of BEPX 105 and 121, dated 1973. The tanks have four
bands. The trucks are a little hard to see, but look like
generic "Bettendorfs" (i.e. not National B-1s, and I think not
Dalmans either). By that date the brakes are AB; I don't know
whether they're original equipment.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "stefanelaine" <stefanelaine@y...>
wrote:

To all who helped, thanks for the earlier info...interestingly the
table in the RPCyc.#2 article doesn't exactly match the photo
caption
of the Navy Gas & Supply cars with respect to build dates for cars
in
the first series. I went with the photo caption as that is what IM
printed on the cars;-)

Now I've got another one painted for Belcher Oil Co. of Florida
(BEPX
107, 10K car). Does anyone have a photo of one of these cars?
There is
no reference to Belcher in the RPCyc. article and I'm wondering if
these came with four or two straps (build date of 9-30 on the model
would make me think it was four bands - model has two)and if these
cars had K or AB brakes. Correct trucks?
Thanks in advance
Stefan Lerche'
Duncan, BC


Re: Gunk and grime was: ADMIN: Creosote and wood preservatives

JEFFREY LEAMAN
 

Thanks

----- Original Message -----
From: David J. Starr<mailto:dstarrboston@verizon.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com<mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 11:36 AM
Subject: Re: Gunk and grime was: [STMFC] ADMIN: Creosote and wood preservatives


JEFFREY LEAMAN wrote:
> Thanks for the quick response. I'm basically a powder weatherer, but I would like to apply a sort of

base color to underframes, trucks and wheels. I then will weather
portions of the equipment based on

the commodity carried, location through which the car traveled, etc,
etc. After a base color, everything

gets a touch of Bragdon's stuff or some of the other weathering
powders I have accumulated.
>
> Thanks again
>
> Jeff

Dark gray auto primer makes a good starting base coat for the under
side of cars, and for canvas roofs such as were found on milk cars,
wooden passenger cars and the like. The primer comes in spray cans for
those few that lack air brushes. It is opaque enough to cover virtually
any other color, dries dead flat, and offers a good base coat for
chalks, water based or solvent based paint. Just one coat sprayed on
the bottom of a plastic kit car kills the plastic gloss and looks better
than the usual black plastic. Despite the solvent base of the primer,
it has never attacked plastic. I get the stuff in spray cans at
hardware stores or auto parts stores.

David Starr




Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: CB&Q 87000-87799 Gondolas

Rupert and Maureen <gamlenz@...>
 

Jerry / Rich

I haven't found the photo but if the cars are 87000-87799, they are rebuilt class GS-1 and -2 composite gondolas. Originally numbered 73000-74999, they were built in 1922 by Pullman, AC&F and Western Steel, and 800 were rebuilt from 1941 onwards with solid floors classed as GT. The BRHS published a Data Sheet on composite hoppers that included photos and a lettering diagram, and there were photos in Bulletin #35 on The Coal Fields.

If you want more specific information, contact me off List at gamlenz@ihug.co.nz

Rupert Gamlen
Auckland NZ


Re: Sergent coupler experiments

Thomas M. Olsen <tmolsen@...>
 

Rob and Jared,

The couplers operate using a magnetized wand to lift the steel ball out of the lock block in the coupler head by magnetic attraction.. Why can't the ball and the wand be magnetized so that you could put the wand below the coupler head and have them repel rather than attract in the same fashion that placing the same poles of two magnets together cause them to repel?

Tom Olsen
7 boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@udel.edu

Rob Kirkham wrote:

Jared, this is interesting to me. Could you post a scan or photo of the modified sergent coupler and one of it in the Accumate box, please? I think this option offers a lot of hope - especially for tank car models where the draft gear can be so exposed!

As to the diaghragm issue, here is my completely untested idea: a tiny electro magnet in the diaghragm, above the coupler head is the start of the solution. Finding a way to turn it on and off conveniently is the next part of the problem. I don't know much about DCC, but couldn't one code a tiny curcuit with a separate DCC chanel that would power the elctromagnet with a push of a button?

On a simialr, but freight car theme, as I was coupling cars on a friend's layout today, I was thinking how I miss the sounds of real cars coupling (especially the clank and echoe of empty steel cars). I wonder what it would take to be able to rig an HO coupler to trigger a small sound loop/speaker hidden inside a freight car to react when coupled with the right sort of crash sound. Then again, maybe it would quickly drive everyone in the room round the bend.....

Rob Kirkham



Yahoo! Groups Links






Re: Outlawed equipment

Rupert and Maureen <gamlenz@...>
 

Richard and Gregg

Thanks for the explanations about the interchange (or not) of outlawed equipment.

Rupert Gamlen
Auckland NZ


Another IM ACF type 27 question

oliver
 

To all who helped, thanks for the earlier info...interestingly the
table in the RPCyc.#2 article doesn't exactly match the photo caption
of the Navy Gas & Supply cars with respect to build dates for cars in
the first series. I went with the photo caption as that is what IM
printed on the cars;-)

Now I've got another one painted for Belcher Oil Co. of Florida (BEPX
107, 10K car). Does anyone have a photo of one of these cars? There is
no reference to Belcher in the RPCyc. article and I'm wondering if
these came with four or two straps (build date of 9-30 on the model
would make me think it was four bands - model has two)and if these
cars had K or AB brakes. Correct trucks?
Thanks in advance
Stefan Lerche'
Duncan, BC


ADMIN: Files and Photos

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Pat Wider asks about my "broom". A good point. We need to make a decision about the archives...what needs to be permanent and what should not be. Give me a day or so to consider. There are options that I want to consider.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


ADMIN: No full name= jail time

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

As far as I can tell, the STMFC is populated by a rather intelligent group. Members usually seem to be able to use the "King's English" fairly well...even to the extent of capitalizng at the correct time. It is odd, then, to me, that some members still don't seem to know their name. I mean...how many times have I indicated that the rules of the group clearly state that one MUST sign messages with their full name? Twenty times? Given that some members still don't sign with it [ heck, some don't even use any part of a name ], I can only conclude that either they don't know their name...or, they don't care about the rules. In either case, if the member listens he/she will hear the clang of the moderate jail door swinging shut. Not only that, but the door won't open until I get some confidence that the member has learned his/her name or the rules. IOW, if you don't sign messages with your full name, don't think that your messages are going through...because they aren't. Today, two more nameless folks entered the jail.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Re: Couplers - prototype drawings including major measurements

Patrick Wider <pwider@...>
 

I can load a 150K GIF file of a scan of an AAR Type E coupler diagram from a CBC that has
lots of dimensions into the FILES section. The problem is I need Mike Brock to clean house
and make some room there by cleaning out some of the old wasteful junk (about half of
the allotted memory could be freed up by my estimation - some unnecessarily high-
resolution poor-quality scans are eating up inordinate amounts of memory). I've sent him
two e-mails on this subject with no obvious results. Get your broom out Mike!!!!

Pat Wider

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Denny Anspach <danspach@m...> wrote:

The problem is that no matter how much one looks, there does not seem
to be any coupler drawings with "dimensions" aside from the bare
minimum required for coupler interchangability, i.e. 3" from the
striker plate to the horn.

I will be placing into Files a WORD document on scale vs. prototype
coupler, coupler box measurements that I believe I first shared with
the group this past October.

Denny

--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, California


Re: CB&Q 87000-87799 Gondolas

Rich Yoder
 

Any additional photos or information about these cars or car ends would
be appreciated.
Please contact me off list.
Sincerely, Rich Yoder
7 Edgedale Court
Wyomissing PA 19610-1913
610-678-2834 after 6:00 pm est. until 10:00pm

www.richyodermodels.com

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Jerry Dziedzic
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 9:30 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] CB&Q 87000-87799 Gondolas

Vince Lee has researched Erie's 28th St. (Manhattan) yard extensively.
There's an interesting gon in a 1943 photo which reminds me of ATSF's
Sa-8 rebuilds. I'll post an image, courtesy of Vince and crediting the
original to the collection of Dan Biernacki.

We Easterners dunno much 'bout Q. Routine searches haven't turned
up anything. Can anyone confirm that this car is from the 87000-87799
series? We'd appreciate other information about the cars, too.

Jerry Dziedzic
Pattenburg, NJ






Yahoo! Groups Links


CB&Q 87000-87799 Gondolas

Jerry Dziedzic
 

Vince Lee has researched Erie's 28th St. (Manhattan) yard extensively.
There's an interesting gon in a 1943 photo which reminds me of ATSF's
Sa-8 rebuilds. I'll post an image, courtesy of Vince and crediting the
original to the collection of Dan Biernacki.

We Easterners dunno much 'bout Q. Routine searches haven't turned
up anything. Can anyone confirm that this car is from the 87000-87799
series? We'd appreciate other information about the cars, too.

Jerry Dziedzic
Pattenburg, NJ


Re: Unicel cars

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Patrick Wider wrote:
According to my January 1957 ORER ACL had two cars that were numbered 15000 and
15001 and described as:

Box, Laminated, Unicel, 52' 6" outside length.
Does anyone know if these cars were retrofitted with steel underframes? Underframe construction was one of the concerns of the original AAR rejection.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: B&O 269284

Robert Daniels
 

Thanks Bob. I've also seen photos that show some cars carrying their original Creco doors into the 1960's. What I'm trying to determine is when the Superior-style doors were first applied. I'm modeling 1951 and I'm wondering if any M-26's might have had Superior doors by then.

Rob Daniels
New York, NY

rwitt_2000 <rmwitt@indy.rr.com> wrote:
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Rob Daniels <shalizadad@y...> wrote:

I have a photo of B&O 269284, an M-26A, dating to the early 60's. In
the photo the car has what appears to be a replacement door of
Superior type with six panels. Does anyone know approximately when the
original Creco doors on M-26A's were replaced with this type?

Thanks.

Rob Daniels
New York, NY
Rob,

My limited photo collection has an example of an M-26A with a re-weigh
date of 1940 already with Youngstown doors. Another from the
mid-1950s has Superior panel doors. There are limited records
indicating that the B&O M-26's received repairs including patch panels
and doors as necessary starting after W.W. II and continue into the
mid-1950s. This apparently was not done to all the cars. I have a
photo I took in the early 1960s of an M-26D recently shopped and
repainted in Washington, Indiana still with its original doors. It
did have patch panels.

Recent information about the original doors indicates these were
termed "XLT Doors" and were based upon patents held by J. J. Tatum the
B&O Superintendent of Cars at the time. Paper records from the B&OHS
Archives has yielded additional information about other freight cars
parts all termed "XLT". Some of us in the B&OHS are trying to
organize this information and understand what was going on with Tatum,
his patents and the B&O freight car construction.

Bob Witt, Indianapolis, Indiana







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New Release from Pocahontas Models

James F. Brewer <jfbrewer@...>
 

Pocahontas Models LLC is pleased to announce its newest HO scale resin kit, the Norfolk & Western Class G-5 gondola.

The kit features a one-piece gondola body with cavity to accept the included weight, as well as a one-piece underframe, custom etched detail parts and custom decals. A Kadee brake wheel and housing and Tichy brake components and grab irons round out the detail parts bag.

Complete instructions and prototype information are also included and may be previewed on our web site.

These kits are in stock and available for shipment.

Please see www.pocahontasmodels.com for more information.

Jim Brewer

Glenwood MD

Pocahontas Models LLC

www.pocahontasmodels.com


Re: Unicel cars

Tim O'Connor
 

Train Shed Cyclopedia #85 contains a reprinted article from
Railway Mechanical & Electrical Engineer on the Unicel 50 foot
cars built in 1950.

Tim O'Connor

At 05:43 PM 1/22/2006, you wrote:
Where can I find more information on these cars in general? I tried a search
and came up empty. If they were discussed in the past on this list, I'll be
happy to search the archives. As I'm sure you know, they're not easy to
search and I would rather not waste my time looking *if* there's nothing there,
but if it is, then I don't mind looking. TIA!

Take Care!

Brian R. Termunde


Re: Youngstown Doors

Tim O'Connor
 

Thanks Tony! I didn't realize until this discussion that some
25's had the same wide seam doors as the 24's. Pat Wider can rest
easy now, since I will be using up my doors on correct -25 models
instead of wasting them on bogus -24's.. :-)

Tim O'Connor

Tim O'Connor wrote:

From my notes I show only one batch of PSC B-50-25's 20500-21499
and two batches of PS cars 21500-21749 and 21750-22249. (And two
PS batches for T&NO) Which ones had wide seam doors?
The 1946 cars had the wide-seam doors: the PSC cars and the
lower-number batch you list of P-S cars. The second or 1947 batch, the
higher P-S numbers, had the follow-on door. For T&NO, likewise, the
first P-S batch in 1946, 54850-55199, had the wide-seam doors, while
the second batch, 55200-55699, had the later or 1947 doors.
Obviously Ted's mini-kit is designed to do any of the 1946
batches (which altogether total 1600 cars), but the most visible change
to the 1947 cars (total, 1000 cars) was the doors, so with different
doors one could model them too.

Tony Thompson

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