Date   

Re: Gon trucks

Chet French <cfrench@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Clark Propst" <cepropst@n...> wrote:

I bought a friend 2 Sunshine gons at N'ville. A Wabash and an ACL. He
called tonight and asked what trucks to put under them. These are his
first resin kits. I think he described Andrews for the Wabash. We would
like to know what trucks are available for these cars. Hopefully he can
pick them up at Trainfest this weekend.


Clark,

The Wabash cars had either Andrews or AAR cast side frame trucks. I
bought a few Bethlehem Car Works metal Andrews trucks to add weight to
the car. If the cars are to be weighted by adding a load or weight
added to the underside of the car any of the available applicable
plastic trucks should work.

Chet French
Dixon, IL


Re: Call for slides

vgnry <vgnry212@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tony Thompson <thompsonmarytony@s...> wrote:

There is no reason to use a drum scanner for this today except
for people who already have one and want to keep using it. Dedicated
slide scanners like Nikon makes can produce up to 6000 dpi and have
excellent software for color, focus, etc. That's why I said there is
"no reason" to demount slides today. Of course Moaning Sun's printer in
the outback may be a little behind the technical curve.
At the risk of incurring the wrath of Mike by prolonging this thread, I think we should
should cut MSB some slack. If we want to see color guides produced, we need to
encourage people to come forward with precious material. Part of that is not scaring them.

Tony certainly knows the publishing business better than I. But having done some work for
Bob Yanosey, I know he uses a drum scanner because no desktop scanner matches the
quality of the scan. I don't think the issue is whether a desktop is good enough, but
whether it produces to Bob's standards or expectations. Pushing a 35mm slide to a full
two-page spread, or cropping to fit a layout will challenge any scanner but the best.

Slides have to be demounted for drum scanning, as mentioned, but are never cut to fit a
layout and are remounted in the original mounts because that is how they came to him.

I regularly use Nikon 4000 dpi desktop scanners. I know of none that reach 6000 dpi, and
in a quick search of the Web, I couldn't find one. I have been told that at 4000 dpi, which
is where the top models have been for several years, we are at the practical limit of useful
data to be had by a desktop model from a 35mm slide or neg. The scans produced are
very good to great...but they don't approach the level of a drum scan.

Bob's printer for the last several years has been in the Far East and is state of the art. The
reproduction quality is not always consistent, which could be because the slide was not
great, but the overall quality went up when he moved the color separations and printing
over there.

Bill McClure
Shot In The Dark Studio
Richmond, VA


Re: Calling a spade a club

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

Also, since I'm putting together a CGW car, you gave me some
important information here: "Carbuilder Corrugated Round Corner
Steel Ends". Since I chopped up an old MDC car, the corners are
square.... have to go back and round them off a bit. Bummer. That
means I have to glue on new rivets after all the carving is done.

Best regards,
Phil Buchwald
Phil, would you like a close up of the end corner?
Clark Propst


Re: Calling a spade a club

Tim O'Connor
 

Ed, that's a terrific idea. Now, how do we know if you're talking
about the ends applied to 1930's cars, late 40's cars, or 1950's
cars? You and Ted are both trying to find a phrase that describes
the particular style of end applied to some cars in the 1930's or
early 1940's, but Pullman Corrugated End is just a generic term
that applies over a long span of years. Can't you zero in on the
specific end in question?

For example, thousands of times on this list and the FCL etc we
have talked about "bowtie roofs" and "PS doors" yet I am sure
those are not the terms Pullman itself used. You seek to replace
concise, descriptive-associative terms, with historically-correct but
generic terminology. For example, IBM made "Information Systems"
in 1959 and they also make them in 2005. That says something
about IBM but I don't think it tells us anything about the products.

PS-0 is historically incorrect, but it works. Come up with something
that works as well, and people will use it.

Tim O.




Ed Hawkins dares to ask

... why the term "Pullman Corrugated End" wouldn't suffice and be
completely understandable for describing ends of this type?


Re: Mobilgas, Naperville, Cocoa Beech, et al

Shawn Beckert
 

Bob Webber wrote:

This photo is one of several I purchased last year when (it seemed)
everyone else was at Cocoa Beech. I happened upon a nice little
trove of freight car photos. I bought far fewer of them than I
should have (mainly because so many were of the SP - sorry Shawn).
S'alright. I got plenty of SP photos at Naperville; I had to leave a
good number behind because I could hear my bank account start screaming.
When you visit Bob's suite, you have to bring some serious money.

Now, while I was searching through the collection, I kept hearing "do
you have any freight car photos?" or "B&O photos" or "xxxx
photos?" Well yeah, he had tons of those. But you had to have some
patience and look. it took me more than 45 minutes to find the D&RGW
photos. I found some that filled some long term voids in my collection.
I'm always amazed at the people that won't do the legwork needed to pursue
this hobby, whether it be research at the library or digging through milk
crates at the railroadiana show. And yes, I'm learning that to find some
things I have to get on a plane and leave California (shocking...).

Going through the boxes of contact prints that fellow had on Saturday at
Naperville (forget his name) was a tedious thing, as crowded and warm as it
was in that room, but I came out with a bunch of prints of early SP and
Cotton Belt diesels. Worth the effort it was.

Shawn Beckert


Re: Calling a spade a club

buchwaldfam <duff@...>
 

Thanks Ed! That's exactly what I was looking for! If that's what the
car builder called 'em, then that is what they are.

To me, personally, a good descriptive term would be Pullman
corrugated ends, to which you can add the qualifiers 4/5 or 5/5,
square or round corner. This seems to narrow things down enough.
(Sounds like a good subject for a poll!)

Since "Pullman" was used in the original documents, it is certainly
appropriate. The "corrugated" description isolates these from the
flat riveted or the later PS-1 style Pullman ends. You could
add "carbuilder", except that this term by itself is somewhat
ambiguous since it was used to describe other designs as well.

I am curious about the "AAR corrugated type" descriptor used for the
L&A and KCS cars of 1941. Did this refer to the fact that the AAR
allowed the carbuilders to substitute components as long as the
basic structure and envelope were met?

I remember that in John Nehrich's original MM article, he made a
comment along the lines that since he couldn't find a written
description for the car, and since it came along before the PS-1, he
coined his own term of PS-0. By his own words, he put his own
disclaimer in the article.

Also, since I'm putting together a CGW car, you gave me some
important information here: "Carbuilder Corrugated Round Corner
Steel Ends". Since I chopped up an old MDC car, the corners are
square.... have to go back and round them off a bit. Bummer. That
means I have to glue on new rivets after all the carving is done.

Best regards,
Phil Buchwald



-- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@s...> wrote:



Phil,
I don't have any official data or nomenclature on the ends used on
the
light-weight welded box cars built by Pullman-Standard in 1938 and
1940
(see spread in the 1940 Car Builders' Cyclopedia), but I do have
the
official terminology from P-S bills of materials for ends of
similar
appearance used on various other P-S built cars as follows.

TC 7900-7999, built 1941, lot 5655: "Pullman 2 piece corrugated
C.B.
steel"

L&A 36001-36200 and KCS 25100-25299, built 1941, lot 5681:
"Pullman-Standard AAR Corrugated Type" (see photo RP CYC Vol. 4,
page
12)

B&O 386000-386149 (M-57), 295600-295649 (M-57A), 292000-292049 (M-
57B,
one end only), built 1941, lot 5673, "Pullman Two piece corrugated
C.B.S. Round Corner"

B&O 465000-465999 (M-55A/B), built 1941, lot 5693, "Pullman Two
piece
corrugated C.B.S. Round Corner"

CGW 91000-92099, built 1944, lot 5771, "Carbuilder Corrugated
Round
Corner Steel Ends"

CGW 92000-92149, built 1945, lot 5805, "Carbuilder Corrugated
Round
Corner Steel Ends"

C&EI 1-5, built 1945, lot 5808: "Carbuilder Corrugated Round
Corner
Steel Ends" (see photo RP CYC Vol. 8, page 4)

What does all of this mean? There's one thing in common with the
terminology of each group of cars: the end nomenclature in P-S
official
documentation used either the name "Pullman" or "Carbuilder
(meaning
Pullman-Standard)" and the term "Corrugated (sometimes capitalized
and
sometimes not)." I looked and looked but could not find "PS-0 end"
or
any other such description. Dare I ask why the term "Pullman
Corrugated
End" wouldn't suffice and be completely understandable for
describing
ends of this type? Due to variations in height or the arrangement
of
corrugations in the top and bottom sheets, I wouldn't be adverse
in
further describing them as "4/5" or "5/5" (top over bottom
corrugations) as applicable, just like the accepted practice for
Dreadnaught Ends or Improved Dreadnaught Ends (or using a hyphen
for
bottom over top counting as preferred by some). By the way, I'm
not
expecting Tim to buy any of this!! <g>
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Pullman Standard Ends (was spades clubs Diamonds and hearts)

Andy Carlson
 

Hey,
If we can call the PS-1 cars as having "PS-1" Ends,
how about calling the socalled "PS-0" end the PS
Interim end? (Interim, between the Dreadnaught and
production PS-1 ends) I, of course, would probably
prefer the "PS-0" simply because we all know what that
means.

And what is so wrong with "Roof Walks".

I still refuse to use "friction bearing" and "outside
braced", though.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

What does all of this mean? There's one thing in
common with the
terminology of each group of cars: the end
nomenclature in P-S official
documentation used either the name "Pullman" or
"Carbuilder (meaning
Pullman-Standard)" and the term "Corrugated
(sometimes capitalized and
sometimes not)." I looked and looked but could not
find "PS-0 end" or
any other such description. Dare I ask why the term
"Pullman Corrugated
End" wouldn't suffice and be completely
understandable for describing
ends of this type? Due to variations in height or
the arrangement of
corrugations in the top and bottom sheets, I
wouldn't be adverse in
further describing them as "4/5" or "5/5" (top over
bottom
corrugations) as applicable, just like the accepted
practice for
Dreadnaught Ends or Improved Dreadnaught Ends (or
using a hyphen for
bottom over top counting as preferred by some). By
the way, I'm not
expecting Tim to buy any of this!! <g>
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: proportions of well-known freight cars - Steel vs. SUF vs. Other Undeframes for Boxcars between 1920 and 1954

Gatwood, Elden <Elden.Gatwood@...>
 

Tim;
I just knew you'd respond! Thanks!

All;

The basis of Ben's pie diagram were tables which were published until
1954 in the ICC's Blue Books for boxcars which were all-steel or had
steel underframes. By deduction of these amounts from total boxcars, the

amount of wood or steel center sill underframed boxcars can be derived
for years between 1920 and 1954.

Do you think the steel underframed boxcars would have included all the
former single-sheathed rebuilds, or would they then have been lumped in
with the all-steel cars?

Accordingly, the proportion to steel sheathed boxcars to wood sheathed
boxcars can be derived, but there is no way to separate single from
double wood sheathed boxcars using this table.

By 1954 would there not have been a VERY small (<0.1%) number of
double-sheathed cars still in interchange?

In the table below are the percentages of steel sheathed boxcars, cars
with steel underframes with either double or single sheathing, and cars
with wood or composite underframes with double or single sheathing in
five year segments:

Year Total All-Steel SUF "Other"
1920 1,038,222 2.8% 51.1% 47.1%
1925 1,078,004 6.2% 61.6% 32.2%
1930 1,059,604 11.8% 69.4% 18.8%
1935 809,280 18.0% 72.2% 9.8%
1940 705,366 37.9% 53.0% 9.1%
1945 741,946 49.5% 44.4% 6.1%
1950 714,568 70.9% 28.5% 0.6%
1954 719,918 81.7% 18.1% 0.2%

I am astounded by the presence of 18.1% steel underframed (and
presumably wooden sheathed) cars in 1954! I would have figured it to be
far less.

Thus, as of December 1954, 589,034 boxcars were steel sheathed while
130,884 boxcars had wood sheathing of some kind - I assume that there
were too few aluminum-sheathed cars to matter. Unfortunately, the ICC
dropped this table in 1955 so I cannot provide a late 1950's breakdown.

That constitutes my education for the week. I had NO idea.

Thanks also for that extrapolation of PS-1 data. A figure of 10% is
certainly believable, but implies something about its converse.

I would venture that many of us have far too many of the "popular"
prototypes on our layouts to be truly representative, regardless of the
accuracy to which we might parcel out our RR representation. For
instance, between the '32, '37, post-war, PS-1 and wooden-sheathed cars,
I would guess many have fleets primarily composed of, we would still be
missing vast numbers of cars that do not fall into any of these
"popular" groups.
The only way to address this need is to obtain large numbers of "less
popular" car classes, for which our only outlet is generally resin, and
to a lesser extent brass. There are some few that scratchbuild these
cars, but that would not be the norm, or even for these folks, possible
in a fleet of 500 cars (can you imagine scratchbuilding or substantial
kit-bashing 100 box cars?).

As an example of how far one might get off track, I saw a PRR layout
that had large numbers of post-war AAR types (in classes X43 and X44),
PS-1 (X48; only 20 cars total), and PRR-exclusive "popular" box cars
like X29 and X31. There were no PRR-exclusive cars, other than what is
available in plastic. This was repeated in each of his interchanging
railroads; the B&O was mostly wagontops; the Milwaukee - rib sides; etc.
The fleet was dominated by "common" cars. After seeing ever other car
with the same roofs, sides, and ends, one began to wonder about the
"representative" nature of a layout; and this guy is a slobbering maven
for prototype accuracy!

I suppose each one of us has to work out the compromises one is willing
to accept in modeling something larger than an individual car or engine.
But, this seems like a topic that has not had its fair share of
attention.

I am slowly trying to bring this issue its due in the gondola and flat
car articles in TKM. It is nowhere near as complex as the box car
issue. It is an eye-opening experience to really understand the number
data on car types and classes, particularly for a large road like the
PRR.

Take it easy,

Elden Gatwood


Re: Mobil Gas Tank Car Photo (WEOX-734) At oakland, Ca.

Rob Adams
 

Bob;

Thanks for digging into it further. I'd say that my previous guesstimate of Circa 1940 is pretty close then. 1939 or 40. I knew I shouldn't have dismissed that multitude of boxes at Naperville so easily. But there were just too many things calling my name and from every corner. ;-)

Rob

Bob Webber wrote:

Make that Augusta Kan.

If there weren't shadows, you could read the writing on the cylinder
too - but that also has a 1938 date.

Also: "Boxes Repacked 11-7-1938 W.E.O.X."

Maybe Mr. Jackson did some work on this car....

BTW, you can not, even under highest magnification, see through the
truck springs. The wheels have a flat/solid back (as does the car
in back of it).

At 03:04 PM 11/10/2005, Bob Webber wrote:
Of course, as soon as I send something I find something else - on
the frame, there is another date (to say Rxxx & Painted)
Arxxxxa Kxx 11-8-38.

BTW, all reporting marks on the tank and frame still say WEOX (about
5 visible places). Equipped with dirt collector. For a small
photo, that is undoubtedly a bit old, there still is a wealth of
detail to be found.
Bob Webber




International travel insurance <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&;k=International+travel+insurance&w1=Worldwide+travel+insurance&w2=Travel+trailer+insurance&w3=International+travel+insurance&w4=Travel+insurance+usa&w5=Travel+medical+insurance&w6=Csa+travel+insurance&c=6&s=180&.sig=Vc4Nbb1bsfL8HdKPKTOZlg>


Csa travel insurance <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&;k=Csa+travel+insurance&w1=Worldwide+travel+insurance&w2=Travel+trailer+insurance&w3=International+travel+insurance&w4=Travel+insurance+usa&w5=Travel+medical+insurance&w6=Csa+travel+insurance&c=6&s=180&.sig=_-g-Wjb-UhNOmS4vkeQoAg>

--
Rob Adams
Wellman, IA
steamera@netins.net
Modeling Keokuk, IA operations and the CB&Q's K&W branch, circa 1938
http://www.KeokukandWesternRR.com


Re: Mobil Gas Tank Car Photo (WEOX-734) At oakland, Ca.

Bob Webber <no17@...>
 

Make that Augusta Kan.

If there weren't shadows, you could read the writing on the cylinder too - but that also has a 1938 date.

Also: "Boxes Repacked 11-7-1938 W.E.O.X."

Maybe Mr. Jackson did some work on this car....

BTW, you can not, even under highest magnification, see through the truck springs. The wheels have a flat/solid back (as does the car in back of it).

At 03:04 PM 11/10/2005, Bob Webber wrote:
Of course, as soon as I send something I find something else - on the frame, there is another date (seems to say Rxxx & Painted)
Arxxxxa Kxx 11-8-38.

BTW, all reporting marks on the tank and frame still say WEOX (about 5 visible places). Equipped with dirt collector. For a small photo, that is undoubtedly a bit old, there still is a wealth of detail to be found.
Bob Webber


Re: Mobil Gas Tank Car Photo (WEOX-734) At oakland, Ca.

Bob Webber <no17@...>
 

Of course, as soon as I send something I find something else - on the frame, there is another date (seems to say Rxxx & Painted)
Arxxxxa Kxx 11-8-38.

BTW, all reporting marks on the tank and frame still say WEOX (about 5 visible places). Equipped with dirt collector. For a small photo, that is undoubtedly a bit old, there still is a wealth of detail to be found.

At 02:58 PM 11/10/2005, Bob Webber wrote:
I have once again edited the photo's data - the date is moved to 4-27-47 and is indicated as a guess. The test date is given as 4-27-35.
If there is any closer guess, I'll modify it as such.

At 02:27 PM 11/10/2005, you wrote:
Thomas M. Olsen wrote:

List,

When I pulled up the photo, below the header line at the top, there was
a description that read, "Mobil; Gas WOE 734 WEST Oakland - weigh date
is 5-1917 - no date given." The next description line down gives a
photo date and location Now the interesting thing is that the photo
date given is 1-1-1920. Location is Oakland, Ca. This date is a lot
closer to the weigh date shown on the car. If the weigh date is
correct, then I would figure that the photo date is as marked. How far
back in time do the W.E.O.X. reporting marks go? Knowing that should
give you an idea whether the 1920 is correct.
Tom,

What facts are known?

In the November 1925 ORER, White Eagle Oil & Refining Company's
reporting marks were WEPX. In January 1930, Socony bought White Eagle.
In the August 1931 ORER, the WPEX reporting mark was being replaced by
WEOX, but #734 was still listed as having the WPEX mark. In the January
1938 and January 1943 ORER's , all White Eagle cars had WEOX marks.
Between January 1943 and April 1949, Socony Vacuum consolidated all
their tank car fleets into one mark - SVX. - Socony adopted the Mobil
name sometime in the 1940's.

My guess as to when the photo was taken was the late 1940's before 1949
given the Mobilgas logo and WEOX reporting mark.

Tim Gilbert
Bob Webber


Re: Mobil Gas Tank Car Photo (WEOX-734) At oakland, Ca.

Bob Webber <no17@...>
 

I have once again edited the photo's data - the date is moved to 4-27-47 and is indicated as a guess. The test date is given as 4-27-35.
If there is any closer guess, I'll modify it as such.

At 02:27 PM 11/10/2005, you wrote:
Thomas M. Olsen wrote:

List,

When I pulled up the photo, below the header line at the top, there was
a description that read, "Mobil; Gas WOE 734 WEST Oakland - weigh date
is 5-1917 - no date given." The next description line down gives a
photo date and location Now the interesting thing is that the photo
date given is 1-1-1920. Location is Oakland, Ca. This date is a lot
closer to the weigh date shown on the car. If the weigh date is
correct, then I would figure that the photo date is as marked. How far
back in time do the W.E.O.X. reporting marks go? Knowing that should
give you an idea whether the 1920 is correct.
Tom,

What facts are known?

In the November 1925 ORER, White Eagle Oil & Refining Company's
reporting marks were WEPX. In January 1930, Socony bought White Eagle.
In the August 1931 ORER, the WPEX reporting mark was being replaced by
WEOX, but #734 was still listed as having the WPEX mark. In the January
1938 and January 1943 ORER's , all White Eagle cars had WEOX marks.
Between January 1943 and April 1949, Socony Vacuum consolidated all
their tank car fleets into one mark - SVX. - Socony adopted the Mobil
name sometime in the 1940's.

My guess as to when the photo was taken was the late 1940's before 1949
given the Mobilgas logo and WEOX reporting mark.

Tim Gilbert





Yahoo! Groups Links



Bob Webber


Re: Mobil Gas Tank Car Photo (WEOX-734) At Pakland, Ca.

Bob Webber <no17@...>
 

On closer examination, there is one more date:
TESTxx 4 27 35

Which is narrowing it down closer to the date indicated.


At 02:27 PM 11/10/2005, you wrote:
Tom,
What facts are known?
In the November 1925 ORER, White Eagle Oil & Refining Company's
reporting marks were WEPX. In January 1930, Socony bought White Eagle.
In the August 1931 ORER, the WPEX reporting mark was being replaced by
WEOX, but #734 was still listed as having the WPEX mark. In the January
1938 and January 1943 ORER's , all White Eagle cars had WEOX marks.
Between January 1943 and April 1949, Socony Vacuum consolidated all
their tank car fleets into one mark - SVX. - Socony adopted the Mobil
name sometime in the 1940's.

My guess as to when the photo was taken was the late 1940's before 1949
given the Mobilgas logo and WEOX reporting mark.

Tim Gilbert
Bob Webber


Re: Mobil Gas Tank Car Photo (WEOX-734) At Pakland, Ca.

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Thomas M. Olsen wrote:

List,

When I pulled up the photo, below the header line at the top, there was
a description that read, "Mobil; Gas WOE 734 WEST Oakland - weigh date
is 5-1917 - no date given." The next description line down gives a
photo date and location Now the interesting thing is that the photo
date given is 1-1-1920. Location is Oakland, Ca. This date is a lot
closer to the weigh date shown on the car. If the weigh date is
correct, then I would figure that the photo date is as marked. How far
back in time do the W.E.O.X. reporting marks go? Knowing that should
give you an idea whether the 1920 is correct.
Tom,

What facts are known?

In the November 1925 ORER, White Eagle Oil & Refining Company's reporting marks were WEPX. In January 1930, Socony bought White Eagle. In the August 1931 ORER, the WPEX reporting mark was being replaced by WEOX, but #734 was still listed as having the WPEX mark. In the January 1938 and January 1943 ORER's , all White Eagle cars had WEOX marks. Between January 1943 and April 1949, Socony Vacuum consolidated all their tank car fleets into one mark - SVX. - Socony adopted the Mobil name sometime in the 1940's.

My guess as to when the photo was taken was the late 1940's before 1949 given the Mobilgas logo and WEOX reporting mark.

Tim Gilbert


Mobilgas, Naperville, Cocoa Beech, et al

Bob Webber <no17@...>
 

As sometimes happens, multiple threads tend to coalesce. And so it is with this photo.

This photo is one of several I purchased last year when (it seemed) everyone else was at Cocoa Beech. I happened upon a nice little trove of freight car photos. I bought far fewer of them than I should have (mainly because so many were of the SP - sorry Shawn).

Well, what part of what remained of the collection came out again at Naperville, in the vendor room. I bought a few that I found, but then found a stash of D&RGW diesel photos. I ended up purchasing more than 180 photos (fortunately, when bought in quantity, there is a discount - I told him he;d have to weigh my stack)

Now, while I was searching through the collection, I kept hearing "do you have any freight car photos?" or "B&O photos" or "xxxx photos?" Well yeah, he had tons of those. But you had to have some patience and look. it took me more than 45 minutes to find the D&RGW photos. I found some that filled some long term voids in my collection.

Doug told me that the whole collection had been literally seconds from being thrown out. Now, these photos are not 8x10's, or even (for the most part) 4x6's. They are (mostly)contact print size. Let's say that Mobilgas photo is 50 years old. At a minimum. You can read every word on the tank. That isn't bad. They scan well and can be quite nice. And, I can say, after looking through the collection, say that there are hundreds of B&O, CRI&P, AT&SF, L&N, SOU, C&O, NYC, BN, UP, and other roads (each) and lesser amounts of other roads. There are still likely a lot of freight cars there. Some are steam era, some later. Some are well documented, some not.

It would have been a shame to see this collection thrown out - I wonder just how many do. This must have been tens of thousands - what he brought to the show numbered at least ten thousand. At Gaithersburg this past weekend, there were over 1000 similar (in terms of size and documentation) C&NW steam locomotive and train photos. Not necessarily the best but not (by far) the worst either.

Had people the patience, they might have found more steam era photos of freight cars and cabooses. Most of the photos in the albums at that site are from that collection. I wish I knew who took the photos.


Bob Webber


Re: Digest Number 2779

jerryglow2
 

This is the "other" or Florida Jerry and you might check Elvin
Klepzig's site http://www.trainweb.org/dbrr/index.html and
specifically http://www.trainweb.org/dbrr/cabsavedhtml/cabsaved.html

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Garth Groff <ggg9y@v...> wrote:

Jerry,

At last, a MOPAC caboose expert!. I am curious to know if any
MP "Gould
Standard" wooden cabooses still survive. These are the same design
as
purchased or homebuilt by the D&RG and the WP. I know the MP had
at
least one series, I think built by AC&F in 1898. Plans were
published in
MR back in the 1940s. Erection drawings also are found in the
Gregg
Trainshed Cyclopedia reprints. I have seen or heard of five such
cars
from the WP still existing. Don't know about any D&RGW cars,
though I
photographed one in 1967 rotting in the desert near Blanca,
Colorado.
Any comments you can add would be of interest.

By the way, I coined the term "Gould Standard" and have always
used it
in quotes. It showed up in Jim Eager's WP Color Guide as an
official
term. Yes, the Gould roads had interchangeable designs, but unlike
the
Harriman lines, there was no official term for them AFAIK. Egg on
his
face and mine.

Model Railroading Warehouse is promising a kit for these
cars "someday".
I sent them plans and photos several years ago. Since I can't
afford
brass, I will make do with their somewhat archaic kit to do a
couple
from Sacramento Northern series 1621-1629 (all ex-WP). I'm glad I
don't
have to hold my breath while I wait for them.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff


Re: C&NW color guide for Morning Sun

Tom Wencl <tdwencl@...>
 

--- Tim O'connor wrote:
[snip]
And keep in mind that some cars have been covered very well in
other places -- like C&NW billboard box cars by Jeff Koehler, for
example. (At one point he was talking about doing a multi-volume
C&NW book series.)
Tim,

Are you referring to Mr. Koeller's article in Mainline Modeler a few
issues back this year or to a book? If I'm not mistaken, I thought
I read that he was working on a book about C&NW slogan boxcars about
a decade ago, but have not heard anymore about it. I believe it was
even advertised in the CNWHS quarterly magazine as a call for photos
back then. Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Tom Wencl
Streamwood, IL


Re: Mobil Gas Tank Car Photo (WEOX-734) At Oakland, Ca.

Bob Webber <no17@...>
 

The 1920 date is there because a date HAS to be there - and I put it there as something better than 1959, failing anything better. (the information you have was put in after Rob wrote his note and I looked at the photo and the weight dates).

At 01:36 PM 11/10/2005, you wrote:
List,

When I pulled up the photo, below the header line at the top, there was
a description that read, "Mobil; Gas WOE 734 WEST Oakland - weigh date
is 5-1917 - no date given." The next description line down gives a
photo date and location Now the interesting thing is that the photo
date given is 1-1-1920. Location is Oakland, Ca. This date is a lot
closer to the weigh date shown on the car. If the weigh date is
correct, then I would figure that the photo date is as marked. How far
back in time do the W.E.O.X. reporting marks go? Knowing that should
give you an idea whether the 1920 is correct.

Anyone want to make a comment regarding the history of the reporting
mark and rules governing weighing cars that may bear on this situation?

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@udel.edu





Yahoo! Groups Links



Bob Webber


Re: Mobil Gas Tank Car Photo (WEOX-734) At Pakland, Ca.

Thomas M. Olsen <tmolsen@...>
 

List,

When I pulled up the photo, below the header line at the top, there was a description that read, "Mobil; Gas WOE 734 WEST Oakland - weigh date is 5-1917 - no date given." The next description line down gives a photo date and location Now the interesting thing is that the photo date given is 1-1-1920. Location is Oakland, Ca. This date is a lot closer to the weigh date shown on the car. If the weigh date is correct, then I would figure that the photo date is as marked. How far back in time do the W.E.O.X. reporting marks go? Knowing that should give you an idea whether the 1920 is correct.

Anyone want to make a comment regarding the history of the reporting mark and rules governing weighing cars that may bear on this situation?

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@udel.edu


Re: proportions of well-known freight cars

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

timboconnor@comcast.net wrote:

Pullman Standard famously decorated a PS-1 as the "75,000th"
sometime before 1960 -- I'm not at home so I can't look it up, but
I think it was a Cotton Belt car. So basically the answer is, PS-1's
were -really- commonplace by 1960.
Since there were 637,829 General Service Boxcars on 12/31/1960 on Class
I RR's in the US, and another 54,900 Special Service Boxcars on that
date, the 75,000 PS-1 would be 10.8% of the total boxcars owned by Class
I roads in the US providing that none had been wrecked or owned by the
Canadian, Mexican, Class II or III roads.

Tim Gilbert


There were still a lot of 1937 (and modified 1940 10'6") cars in
1960 and they far outnumbered PS-1's in 1950. Big owners of the
1937&1940 AAR cars included SP, Southern, AT&SF, C&NW, but
there were scads of other owners too. I think they outnumbered
1923 ARA and X29 style cars by a good margin by 1950.

Tim O.


1) Approximately what percentage of the national box car fleet was
composed of PS-1's, in the late 50's after most had come on-line?
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