Hi Pat,

Not quite... Like a prototype coupler, when the
locking mechanism is lifted the knuckle is free to
open when the engineer pulls away. Also like a
prototype coupler, you *may* run into a recalcitrant
knuckle that doesn't want to open freely. So, to
continue our prototype analogy, do what you must to
break the joint and send it to the RIP track for
maintenance.

Best regards,

David E. Jobe, Sr.
St. Ann, Missouri


--- Patrick Wider <pwider@s...> wrote:


---------------------------------
Tom,

If I understand you correctly, after application of
the magnetic wand held above the
coupler or a surplus super-conducting collider magnet
held even higher, one still has to
get access to the Sergent coupler's knuckle with a
Howard Hughes' finger nail, dentil pick,
or bent paper clip to open it? Is this how they work?
Man Oh Man. What a handy workable
design! At least it would eliminate the need for a
"scale clock". Thanks for the engineering
analysis!!!!!

Pat Wider


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas M. Olsen"
<tmolsen@U...> wrote:

List,

In mid-June, I purchased a set of assembled Sargent

Couplers

(#EC87A-125) along with the Magnetic Uncoupling

Wand. The price for the

two items with shipping was $18.00. You get five

assembled Type "E"

couplers. They work very well and are smaller in

size than the Kadee

#58s. Even though I have not had the opportunity

to mount them in a

piece of rolling stock, I was able to test how they

work. These

couplers are all-metal and are a dark reddish-brown

in color which at a

distance make the coupler look as if it were covered

with rust.

In reality, they operate just like the prototype.

They have a spring

located in the shank ahead of the mounting hole like

the MKD-4 Kadee to

absorb the shock when the coupling is made. After

uncoupling, they,

like the prototype do not return to center as the

Kadee and other HO

couplers available do. They do not mate with other

knuckle couplers due

to the size difference between a proto-87 coupler

and the present

couplers available with the exception of the cast

dummy couplers. The

manufacturer advises that with a little filling on

the dummy coupler

knuckle, they will couple. To couple, they, like

their prototype

cousins require the services of a brakeman to align

the coupler and if

necessary to open one of the knuckles if both are

closed. They will

couple if only one is open and both are properly

aligned. The present

information sheet from Sergent advises that the

current offerings are to

retrofit existing equipment. It is possible that

they may offer draft

gear boxes in the future as they said "Stay Tuned!'

This coupler position and open/closed knuckle

situation could be a

problem for anyone who has a fairly large hump,

staging or flat switched

yard or any other location where the benchwork edge

is more than an arms

length or the track centers are close at a distance

with rolling stock

close on adjacent tracks. The distance benchwork

edge to track

situation is going to be the determining factor as

to whether anyone

will want to use these for operations, or just buy

them for display

purposes in shows and contests. You have to be able

to place the

magnetic wand over top of the coupler head to raise

the steel ball out

of it's slot in the locking block in the coupler

shank. This allows the

knuckle to open. When the knuckle closes, the steel

ball drops back

into it's place and locks the knuckle closed. The

prototype couplers

are designed the same way, except there is no steel

ball to raise, just

the locking block which is actuated by the raising

(or lowering,

depending on whether they are over or under-slung)

of the cutting lever

on the car end. In an earlier discussion regarding

the operation of

couplers, it was Larry Jackman who addressed the

operation as to how

couplers lock and what has to occur to allow them to

open. Many thanks

Larry, for making this clear to many who have not

had the on the ground

experience in this area.

The ability to open them when they are mounted on

passenger equipment

with diaphragms is a valid point. As Tim O'Connor

mentioned, the

possible use of anisotropic magnets mounted on a

wand designed for this

use and also mounted on an extended wand for

distances would solve the

problems in both the passenger and freight

situations. In regard to the

comment that the couplers have to be filed down to

fit present draft

gear boxes: there was no mention of this in the

paperwork that

accompanied the set that I received.

I'm sure that we all will be interested in what

Jared Harper's results

as he begins to test these couplers in actual

service. The big bugaboo

will be the ability to reach the cars and accurately

get the wand into

position to uncouple the cars, or to be able to

align couplers with the

cars buried in a yard more than two feet from the

benchwork end. This

will really be a test of skill when humping cars, as

you will only have

seconds to lift ball to uncouple the cars as they go

over the hump or to

uncouple rear-end helpers on the fly. Most fellows

that I know will not

use these couplers as they require the operator to

get more involved in

the actual work of making and breaking up of trains

and in switching

operations. The magnetic couplers in use today

allow us to move along

quickly in an operating session, while use of the

Sergent couplers will

bring us back to reality as nothing moves fast in

actual railroad

switching and in train make-up and break-up

operations. Just like the

Army - "Hurry Up and Wait!

But, for display and contest purposes, they cannot

be beat! Hopefully,

Sergent will offer a scale draft gear box to make

this superbly scaled

coupler. Do not get me wrong, the Quad 58/78 is a

tremendous

improvement over the earlier #5 and I will use them

until the Sargent is

proved to be good in operation and the problems are

solved. Whether

they are depends on what others find when they use

them. Jared, please

keep us up on what you find as it will be greatly

appreciated!

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@u...

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---------------------------------

If I understand you correctly, after application of the magnetic wand held above the
coupler or a surplus super-conducting collider magnet held even higher, one still has to
get access to the Sergent coupler's knuckle with a Howard Hughes' finger nail, dentil pick,
or bent paper clip to open it? Is this how they work? Man Oh Man. What a handy workable
design! At least it would eliminate the need for a "scale clock". Thanks for the engineering
analysis!!!!! Pat Wider

AF-2's were numbered 11700-11999 and 22000-22199.

A-1's were numbered 9011-9060.

Pat Wider

List,

In mid-June, I purchased a set of assembled Sargent Couplers
(#EC87A-125) along with the Magnetic Uncoupling Wand. The price for the
two items with shipping was $18.00. You get five assembled Type "E"
couplers. They work very well and are smaller in size than the Kadee
#58s. Even though I have not had the opportunity to mount them in a
piece of rolling stock, I was able to test how they work. These
couplers are all-metal and are a dark reddish-brown in color which at a
distance make the coupler look as if it were covered with rust.

In reality, they operate just like the prototype. They have a spring
located in the shank ahead of the mounting hole like the MKD-4 Kadee to
absorb the shock when the coupling is made. After uncoupling, they,
like the prototype do not return to center as the Kadee and other HO
couplers available do. They do not mate with other knuckle couplers due
to the size difference between a proto-87 coupler and the present
couplers available with the exception of the cast dummy couplers. The
manufacturer advises that with a little filling on the dummy coupler
knuckle, they will couple. To couple, they, like their prototype
cousins require the services of a brakeman to align the coupler and if
necessary to open one of the knuckles if both are closed. They will
couple if only one is open and both are properly aligned. The present
information sheet from Sergent advises that the current offerings are to
retrofit existing equipment. It is possible that they may offer draft
gear boxes in the future as they said "Stay Tuned!'

This coupler position and open/closed knuckle situation could be a
problem for anyone who has a fairly large hump, staging or flat switched
yard or any other location where the benchwork edge is more than an arms
length or the track centers are close at a distance with rolling stock
close on adjacent tracks. The distance benchwork edge to track
situation is going to be the determining factor as to whether anyone
will want to use these for operations, or just buy them for display
purposes in shows and contests. You have to be able to place the
magnetic wand over top of the coupler head to raise the steel ball out
of it's slot in the locking block in the coupler shank. This allows the
knuckle to open. When the knuckle closes, the steel ball drops back
into it's place and locks the knuckle closed. The prototype couplers
are designed the same way, except there is no steel ball to raise, just
the locking block which is actuated by the raising (or lowering,
depending on whether they are over or under-slung) of the cutting lever
on the car end. In an earlier discussion regarding the operation of
couplers, it was Larry Jackman who addressed the operation as to how
couplers lock and what has to occur to allow them to open. Many thanks
Larry, for making this clear to many who have not had the on the ground
experience in this area.

The ability to open them when they are mounted on passenger equipment
with diaphragms is a valid point. As Tim O'Connor mentioned, the
possible use of anisotropic magnets mounted on a wand designed for this
use and also mounted on an extended wand for distances would solve the
problems in both the passenger and freight situations. In regard to the
comment that the couplers have to be filed down to fit present draft
gear boxes: there was no mention of this in the paperwork that
accompanied the set that I received.

I'm sure that we all will be interested in what Jared Harper's results
as he begins to test these couplers in actual service. The big bugaboo
will be the ability to reach the cars and accurately get the wand into
position to uncouple the cars, or to be able to align couplers with the
cars buried in a yard more than two feet from the benchwork end. This
will really be a test of skill when humping cars, as you will only have
seconds to lift ball to uncouple the cars as they go over the hump or to
uncouple rear-end helpers on the fly. Most fellows that I know will not
use these couplers as they require the operator to get more involved in
the actual work of making and breaking up of trains and in switching
operations. The magnetic couplers in use today allow us to move along
quickly in an operating session, while use of the Sergent couplers will
bring us back to reality as nothing moves fast in actual railroad
switching and in train make-up and break-up operations. Just like the
Army - "Hurry Up and Wait!

But, for display and contest purposes, they cannot be beat! Hopefully,
Sergent will offer a scale draft gear box to make this superbly scaled
coupler. Do not get me wrong, the Quad 58/78 is a tremendous
improvement over the earlier #5 and I will use them until the Sargent is
proved to be good in operation and the problems are solved. Whether
they are depends on what others find when they use them. Jared, please
keep us up on what you find as it will be greatly appreciated!

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@u...

Pat Wider!

When I cut my teeth in model railroading, American Flyer had chrome plated
journal boxes on sheet steel sideframe trucks. The first time I ever saw
real looking truck they were HO sprung Varneys or Athearns or something.
Heck, even those ugly looking Silver Streak trucks looked good.

So, there you go. I have never quite recovered, and still prefer real
springs.

P.S. - love your research work and articles---

Steve Busch
Duncan, SC


----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Wider" <pwider@s...>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 12:17 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Couplers, Coupler Pockets, and Trucks

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "S. Busch" <SCSBusch@W...> wrote:

Please Mr. Sam At Kadee,

Yes, I vote for the 78s in bulk, too, as well as :

A USRA STYLE ANDREWS FREIGHT CAR TRUCK

- sprung, of course. Please, please, please ---

Why sprung? The toy cars aren't heavy enough to compress the springs
anyway and they
don't equalize so why bother? They also don't roll as well as they could.
I hate HO
"sprung" trucks. And while I'm at it Mr. Kadee, please replace those
spider-web springs
with something more substantial. I hate looking through the spring groups
and seeing the
daylight (layout lighting?) coming through. It's blinding. Jack Spencer
rolls his own springs
out of heavier wire and they look great! Other people use brass loco
driver springs. In
days of old when knights were bold and Central Valley made trucks with
concentric
wheels, their truck springs looked better as well. Phosphor bronze I
think. Why can't Kadee
make a similar improvement to the appearance of their trucks? Continuous
improvement -
that keeps companies in business.

Sorry but this a sore spot with me.

Pat Wider

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "S. Busch" <SCSBusch@W...> wrote:

Please Mr. Sam At Kadee,

Yes, I vote for the 78s in bulk, too, as well as :

A USRA STYLE ANDREWS FREIGHT CAR TRUCK

- sprung, of course. Please, please, please ---

Why sprung? The toy cars aren't heavy enough to compress the springs anyway and they
don't equalize so why bother? They also don't roll as well as they could. I hate HO
"sprung" trucks. And while I'm at it Mr. Kadee, please replace those spider-web springs
with something more substantial. I hate looking through the spring groups and seeing the
daylight (layout lighting?) coming through. It's blinding. Jack Spencer rolls his own springs
out of heavier wire and they look great! Other people use brass loco driver springs. In
days of old when knights were bold and Central Valley made trucks with concentric
wheels, their truck springs looked better as well. Phosphor bronze I think. Why can't Kadee
make a similar improvement to the appearance of their trucks? Continuous improvement -
that keeps companies in business.

Sorry but this a sore spot with me.

Pat Wider