Date   

Re: Were there 10' IH 50' 1937 AAR DD boxcars?

Patrick Wider <pwider@...>
 

Bill,

I haven't researched the geneology of these specific cars but they are 50', have double-
doors, and an inside height of 10'-0":

SOO 175000-175498

SOU 40000-40199

MEC 9000-9049

Pat Wider

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Bill McCoy" <bugsy451@c...> wrote:
I'm working on a presentation for Naperville on Central of Georgia
steel boxcars. In 1937 the CG started to accumulate a sizable fleet of
50' door and a half 10' IH boxcars. They have the 4-5 ends and Murphy
square panel roofs that were on so many 1937 AAR 40s. Was there an AAR
spec for a 50' version? Was there an AAR spec for a 40' double door
car?

I also have hit a dead end on why the passion for door and a half 40s
and 50s like the Central had. It's a combination of 4' and 6'
Younsgstown - Camel doors. I know N&W had a fleet of the combo 40s and
the SAL had a fleet of 50s with double 6' doors and plate ends, all
10' IH.

Can anyone cast any light on the why and wherefores of these cars? Was
it a customer requirement or just eveloution? Any help will be
appreciated.

Bill McCoy
Jax


Re: The Dispatcher Knows (was: SP Freight Train Numbers . . . )

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Andy Sperandeo writes:


I don't know how UP or SP dispatchers did it, but Santa Fe dispatchers' train sheets from the 1940s have a row across the top for train symbols.
It IS possible that the reproduction of the UP Dispatcher's Record of Train Movements DID have a similar row and it was not copied. Upon further review it looks like the reproduction MIGHT include several different sections of a larger sheet. It's hard to say.

Oh, what did those UP engines operating over Cajon Pass have in their indicators? Just their engine numbers, to conform to Santa Fe rules. So I can just decal the engine numbers into the indicators and forget about having to change them - it's good to model the Santa Fe.
And, of course, modeling the UP in Wyoming...as say, opposed to Kansas...wherever that is <g>...has similar advantages.

Mike Brock


Re: Western Prototype Modelers Meet this Sunday

Tim O'Connor
 

Ted, when you print up the calendar with show dates, make sure
to put a note on the page 90 days prior to each show to remind us
when to make reservations! I never plan that far in advance on my
own. :-)

Tim O.

Dave:

Do you have the date for 2006? I'll put it in the calendar I am having
printed.

Regards,
Ted

On Oct 4, 2005, at 2:49 AM, dh30973 wrote:

Western Prototype Modelers 16th Annual Meet,
Sunday October 9, 2005

The west coast's oldest & largest gathering for prototype
modelers

Model Display: WPM is expanding by 50% in 2005 and will have 6000 sq.
ft. of display space for layouts, dioramas and models! Last year
over 135 modelers participated in WPM, displaying over 700 models.
See our website for photos from past WPM events. WPM 2005 will
include both HO scale and N Scale "Free-mo" modular displays.


Bring your modeling projects, finished, or "in the works".
Share
ideas & techniques with fellow modelers; meet new friends.

WPM welcomes modelers of all roads, all scales and eras!

2005 Clinics/Seminars:
Ken Edmier: modeling & detailing ACF Centerfow 3-Bay and 4-Bay
Covered Hoppers
Elden Gatwood: Features of, and modeling tank cars built before 1960
Eric Goodman: (BNSF Intermodal Ramp Mgr.) Modern Intermodal
operations
Mike Rose: Modeling and Weathering Bridge Abutments
Harry Wong & Paul Ellis: Features of and modeling SP Tunnel Motors

Exhibitors: Manufacturers, photographers and publishers will
participate in WPM.
(Exhibitors: pre-registration is required, contact WPM at the phone
number below.)

La Habra Community Center: 101 W. La Habra Blvd. La Habra CA
WPM Meet admission: $15.00, or $12.00 if you bring models to display.

Admission desk opens at 8:30am, model display area opens 9:00am, and
seminars run from 10:00am - 5:00pm. Raffle drawings at 12:00 noon and
5:00pm. This year's event has been extended and runs through 7pm!

Updated info on speakers, map, program & schedule:
www.WesternPrototypeModelers.org
Write: info@... or call Tim Costello at 714-
832-8696

Raffle prizes donated by hobby retailers, publishers & model
manufacturers

---------------
Dave Hussey






Yahoo! Groups Links








Speedwitch Media
645 Tanner Marsh Road, Guilford, CT 06437
info@speedwitch.com
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912





Yahoo! Groups Links







Re: Santa Fe Dry Ice Reefers

Tim O'Connor
 

Richard

Actually, you wrote DCIX (message #46206)

Tim

On Oct 5, 2005, at 7:52 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

I have a 1958 shot from [Dan Smith/Andy Carlson] of DICX 379 (Pure
Carbonic)
that is a 10'6" box car with R+3/4 ends, 10 panel riveted sides (with
extra
rivet row in each panel) and a very weird, low, narrow door with 8
hinges.
Taken somewhere in Southern California.
Tim, DICX were the Merchants Despatch reporting marks for dry ice cars,
as I mentioned in my previous post. They leased cars to a number of
companies in the '40s and '50s.

Richard Hendrickson





Yahoo! Groups Links








Re: SP Freight Train Numbers (was UP...right and left indications)

ljack70117@...
 

On Oct 6, 2005, at 11:03 AM, Mike Brock wrote:


Larry Jackman writes:

Just because you do not know what a

train is when it goes by you, The Dispatcher KNOWs. (sound of the
Getting serious for a moment...one would have to conclude that the
dispatcher DID know. I wonder what form he used? I mean...the Dispatcher's
Record of Movement of Trains as reproduced in The Streamliner has a huge
amount of unused space that COULD have included the train's symbol...but
doesn't. Any ideas?

Mike Brock
I was in the dispatchers office on the Santa Fe at Emporia Ks. He had a lot of papers around him .
He only put information on his work sheet that was important to the movement of the trains. Consists and other information about the trains were in the other papers. Also he kept a lot of information in his head but it could also be found in the papers around him. Even with the amount of trains we ran through Emporia there was very few times that one was on the tail of the other. I can remember one night my engine was sent to the west end of the EB yard to change way cars on two trains and remove one from a third. They were lined up to arrive in a period of a half hour. The last one was the hot one and we were to work it first. As it turned he came in on the third rail and beat the other two. But we knew what each one was because the dispatcher had told the yard master . So we got beat out of our spot (nap) as we had to go to work right away in stead of waiting foe the third one. I was the one who released that the third one was first. It was to have a 385 class diesel. The other two had 100 class diesels. I was already on a bunk just ready to doze when I heard the diesel and I told my forman that was train three coming first because it had the sound of the 385 class diesel( IIRC). They were the 85 MPH duel service class.
So even if it was not on his work sheet he knew what was what.
I have a question. On these saved sheets how many trains did they move one way in an 8 hour period? Also remember on a busy line like the UPRR they had several dispatchers and a chief working each shift.
thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@adelphia.net
Everybody lies, but it doesn't matter since nobody listens


Re: Western Prototype Modelers Meet this Sunday

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

Dave:

Do you have the date for 2006? I'll put it in the calendar I am having printed.

Regards,
Ted

On Oct 4, 2005, at 2:49 AM, dh30973 wrote:

Western Prototype Modelers 16th Annual Meet,
Sunday October 9, 2005

The west coast's oldest & largest gathering for prototype
modelers

Model Display: WPM is expanding by 50% in 2005 and will have 6000 sq.
ft. of display space for layouts, dioramas and models! Last year
over 135 modelers participated in WPM, displaying over 700 models.
See our website for photos from past WPM events. WPM 2005 will
include both HO scale and N Scale "Free-mo" modular displays.


Bring your modeling projects, finished, or "in the works".
Share
ideas & techniques with fellow modelers; meet new friends.

WPM welcomes modelers of all roads, all scales and eras!

2005 Clinics/Seminars:
Ken Edmier: modeling & detailing ACF Centerfow 3-Bay and 4-Bay
Covered Hoppers
Elden Gatwood: Features of, and modeling tank cars built before 1960
Eric Goodman: (BNSF Intermodal Ramp Mgr.) Modern Intermodal
operations
Mike Rose: Modeling and Weathering Bridge Abutments
Harry Wong & Paul Ellis: Features of and modeling SP Tunnel Motors

Exhibitors: Manufacturers, photographers and publishers will
participate in WPM.
(Exhibitors: pre-registration is required, contact WPM at the phone
number below.)

La Habra Community Center: 101 W. La Habra Blvd. La Habra CA
WPM Meet admission: $15.00, or $12.00 if you bring models to display.

Admission desk opens at 8:30am, model display area opens 9:00am, and
seminars run from 10:00am - 5:00pm. Raffle drawings at 12:00 noon and
5:00pm. This year's event has been extended and runs through 7pm!

Updated info on speakers, map, program & schedule:
www.WesternPrototypeModelers.org
Write: info@... or call Tim Costello at 714-
832-8696

Raffle prizes donated by hobby retailers, publishers & model
manufacturers

---------------
Dave Hussey






Yahoo! Groups Links








Speedwitch Media
645 Tanner Marsh Road, Guilford, CT 06437
info@speedwitch.com
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912


Re: Sant Fe Dry Ice Reefers

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Oct 5, 2005, at 7:52 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

I have a 1958 shot from [Dan Smith/Andy Carlson] of DICX 379 (Pure Carbonic)
that is a 10'6" box car with R+3/4 ends, 10 panel riveted sides (with extra
rivet row in each panel) and a very weird, low, narrow door with 8 hinges.
Taken somewhere in Southern California.
Tim, DICX were the Merchants Despatch reporting marks for dry ice cars, as I mentioned in my previous post. They leased cars to a number of companies in the '40s and '50s.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Left and right sides of a car...

buchwaldfam <duff@...>
 

That wouldn't work on box cars... at least not PS-1s. Both
sides left the factory with PS on them.

Phil Buchwald

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "wmcclark1980" <walterclark@e...>
wrote:
Mike,

Port and starboard? I didn't know you used to work on the Love
Boat.

Walter M. Clark
Time stopped in November 1941 (long before the Love Boat, btw)
Riverside, California

And, of course, I knew all that...<g>. I'm just glad nobody said
that as you
face the B end of the car [ The brake wheel end ], that the side
to
your
left is the port side and the side to your right is the
starboard side.

Mike Brock


Re: 1930s GBW boxcar lettering

buchwaldfam <duff@...>
 

Mark,

Was that a red or black rectangle herald on the door? More
importantly, when did each color of herald get used?

Thanks,
Phil Buchwald


Re: NMRA Standards, conventions, magazines, et al

Gatwood, Elden <Elden.Gatwood@...>
 

Jeff;
Thanks for the clarification. I may be guilty of just thinking about
this whole thing from my viewpoint as a historical society supporter and
prototype modeling supporter, and wondering if those in charge of
various venues truly understand what it is that they should be doing;
assuming they want to address certain needs.

It is clear that the goals and objectives of each are different, but
that the NMRA (and others) might be addressing the goals of a steadily
shrinking population. On the other hand, prototype modeling still seems
to be growing. It seems that very few in the NMRA are ready to direct
attention on what they need to do to "bag" the PM folks, which seems to
be an obvious course of action. Or are they fine with the status quo?

I don't know that we need additional PM meets, but I wonder if those in
charge with the NMRA have prepared good planning documents that say
where they expect to go, and how to best meet the needs of their
potential subscribers.

This same issue seems to be one affecting the MR magazine industry, as
well. I know you guys are not happy with what some of the printed mags
are doing, so what should they be doing?

I just don't hear anyone asking any questions! Who is my audience?
What do they want? How can I do this better? I am just seeing fingers
pointed in the wrong direction. Like at me. And I don't see myself as
a problem. If a magazine becomes irrelevant to me, is it my fault that
the owner no longer gets my $?

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
jaley
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 3:51 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NMRA Standards, conventions, et al

On Oct 5, 10:21am, Gatwood, Elden wrote:
Subject: RE: [STMFC] NMRA Standards, conventions, et al
How many people go to each one of these events? I only "attended" one
NMRA event; the Long Beach one being in my backyard, and found it to
be
a zoo (the parade of baby strollers was astounding). Are Naperville
and
Cocoa really getting that large, or has NMRA shrunk down, or both?

Elden Gatwood
Elden,

Permit me to point out that the Naperville and Cocoa Beach PM
meets are very different in structure from the NMRA conventions.

The focus of Cocoa Beach (and, I infer, Naperville), is on the
clinics that take place in the meeting rooms. While there *is* a
ballroom
with model displays and a few manufacturers and retailers, it is NOT
really a "train show". This is in marked contrast to the NMRA's
"National
Train Show", or (I infer) the Springfield or Amhearst shows.

I, for one, take my enjoyment from attending clinics, and from
talking to like-minded prototype modelers in between the clinics.

[Please note my bias: I am the Clinic Chairman at Prototype
Rails
in Cocoa Beach].

Regards,

-Jeff Aley




--
Jeff Aley jaley@pcocd2.intel.com
DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533




Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: The Dispatcher Knows (was: SP Freight Train Numbers . . . )

Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

I don't know how UP or SP dispatchers did it, but Santa Fe dispatchers' train sheets from the 1940s have a row across the top for train symbols. So while a freight train might be departing San Bernardino as the Extra 145 East, the dispatcher can look at the top of the column to see that it's actually the 14-GFX-C or whatever (14-GFX-C = second Green Fruit Express to originate at San Bernardino on the third of the month, as GFX sections 1 through 12 originated at Bakersfield). Interestingly, they also used the symbol line for passenger trains, writing in the letter code to indicate the day of the month the train originated, and if running in sections they used "CC" to denote coaches and "SS" to indicate sleepers - the doubled letters wouldn't be misunderstood as date symbols. As a rule, unfortunately, they didn't use the symbol line for UP trains operating over Cajon Pass on trackage rights.

Speaking of freight train schedules, like many other roads the Santa Fe included freight schedules in employee timetables (at least for all divisions east of Albuquerque), but on a separate page from the actual district (subdivision) schedules, and with the statement that they were for information only to show that they did not confer any timetable authority. Freight schedules were also included in system circulars on freight-train blocking and consolidation (equivalent to what are known on other roads as freight-train procedure books). So while all freights ran as extras, there were scheduled freight services that dispatchers and yardmasters were expected to carry out.

When crews were called they were told the schedule number or symbol of the train they would be running, and those were also displayed on roundhouse call boards. For operational purposes, however, every freight was an extra identified by its engine number and direction.

Oh, what did those UP engines operating over Cajon Pass have in their indicators? Just their engine numbers, to conform to Santa Fe rules. So I can just decal the engine numbers into the indicators and forget about having to change them - it's good to model the Santa Fe.

so long,

Andy


Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@mrmag.com
Phone: 262-796-8776, ex. 461
Fax: 262-796-1142
www.modelrailroader.com


Re: Couplers, Coupler Pockets, The NMRA, and Scale Size

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Jared Harper writes:

Sergent probably can be considered a cottage industry at
this point in time, but Kadee probably was when they started.
Sergent certainly won't get beyond the cottage industry stage if
modelers don't by them and try them. The concept seems good as does
the engineering so I am going to take the plunge.
It seems to me that this issue is somewhat analogous to the issue of Proto 87. Proto 87 standards really invove nothing more than wheel size...thread width, flange depth and flange width plus flangeway sizes. Wheels built to Proto 87 will not operate effectively through trackwork built to match Code 110 standards. Nor will wheels built to code 110 standards operate effectively [ read that...derail ] through trackwork designed to match Proto 87 standards. The problem is, of course, that 99.99% of owned equipment was built to Code 110 standards. When it has been suggested that those like me should change to Proto 87 I have always offered to do so as soon as someone will offer to change out all the drivers on my steam locos to Proto 87 sizes...in one week....for free. So far...no offers. A similar issue with regard to the Sergent coupler seems evident. My understanding is that it won't couple to Kadee couplers. If someone will change out all my Kadees and Accumates in one week free of charge, I might change. If the modeler has no fleet of cars and locos...at least not an overwhelming amount, I could see consideration for changing. Given the huge numbers of stuff owned by greedy collector/modelers like me and others in the group, I just don't see it to be practical. Note that Kadee made sure that their 58/78 will couple with their #5. Now...OTOH, had the NMRA decided that deveopling a scale, reasonably accurate coupler was a worthy project back in 2000...perhaps this issue might not now be discussed.

Mike Brock


Re: Couplers, Coupler Pockets, The NMRA, and Scale Size

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

his part to use only stable "engineering" plastics for both
the coupler halves and the box<
Doing some work on a box the other day I found the center boss is not
centered. In fact it is open on one side from the casting process. All I
had were the same way. So much for accuracy.
I suspect the reason for the plastic on the box is that the coupler
halves are on the same sprue.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: ladder free tank car side

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Frank Brua <parkvarieties@p...> wrote:
Check out page 61 of the November issue of Model Railroader. There are
three cars in a string without platforms on at least the
photographer's side. Also of note is one of the cars has a ladder
with no platform above it.

Right! Thanks Frank. And there are some odd 2 some tank cars where one
dome is centered and the other is to the side (these were illustrated
in the Champ decal book i think).

Ed Mines


Re: Walthers 34' PS 3 Coal Hopper

Tim O'Connor
 

Tim

As far as I know, Cor-Ten steel was the reason that UP (and later SP)
used Alternate Center Rivet style side sheathing on cars built in their
home shops. ACR is the signature of cars that used the thinner steel.

Tim

Rich,
Thanks for the correction -
Next Question - did any other car builder than Pullman-Standard use
Cor-Ten Steel?
Tim Gilbert


Re: Walthers 34' PS 3 Coal Hopper

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Rich,

Thanks for the correction -

Next Question - did any other car builder than Pullman-Standard use Cor-Ten Steel?

Tim Gilbert

SUVCWORR@aol.com wrote:

Tim:

Corten steel was a proprietary trade mark of US Steel. This was a speciality steel which was self protecting in that in rusting it formed a skin of iron oxide that bonded with the surface of the steel and sealed it preventing further rusting. The first use of Cor-Ten steel in a freight car was by the B&O in 1934. Cor-ten is a high strength steel and allowed the construction of cars with approximately 8% less weight from the steel components. The debate is does the weight savings warrant the significant increase in the cost of construction.

Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@sunlink.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 09:53:29 -0400
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Walthers 34' PS 3 Coal Hopper

<snip>

The series was described as "Hopper,
Corten Steel" - that steel I believe was a Pullman-Standard proprietary
product.
<snip>


Re: Walthers 34' PS 3 Coal Hopper

Tim O'Connor
 

Two points: A better 2 bay PS3 can be kitbashed from Stewart hoppers,
and hopefully someone will eventually produce a more accurate and more
detailed replacement for the ancient Walthers (ne Train Miniature) model.
I think there was an article published on how to cut up Stewarts to make
PS3's (something like 3 bodies to make 2 cars)...

In the meantime I have a bunch of the TM hoppers from my Dad's pile of
stuff that will be going to Ebay eventually for less than $7.95 each. Ugh!

Tim O'Connor

I think that with a little work, the Walthers car might serve as a stand-in
for these IC hoppers. But with the IC having several thousand conventional
twin hoppers, how often would these 400 cars really show up?
Ray Breyer


Re: SP Freight Train Numbers (was UP...right and left indications)

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Larry Jackman writes:

Just because you do not know what a
train is when it goes by you, The Dispatcher KNOWs. (sound of the
Getting serious for a moment...one would have to conclude that the dispatcher DID know. I wonder what form he used? I mean...the Dispatcher's Record of Movement of Trains as reproduced in The Streamliner has a huge amount of unused space that COULD have included the train's symbol...but doesn't. Any ideas?

Mike Brock


Re: Walthers 34' PS 3 Coal Hopper

SUVCWORR@...
 

Tim:

Corten steel was a proprietary trade mark of US Steel. This was a speciality steel which was self protecting in that in rusting it formed a skin of iron oxide that bonded with the surface of the steel and sealed it preventing further rusting. The first use of Cor-Ten steel in a freight car was by the B&O in 1934. Cor-ten is a high strength steel and allowed the construction of cars with approximately 8% less weight from the steel components. The debate is does the weight savings warrant the significant increase in the cost of construction.

Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@sunlink.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 09:53:29 -0400
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Walthers 34' PS 3 Coal Hopper

<snip>

The series was described as "Hopper,
Corten Steel" - that steel I believe was a Pullman-Standard proprietary
product.
<snip>


Re: Accumate scale couplers

Tim O'Connor
 

Gene, to my eye they seem too close prototypically speaking
(perhaps 6"-12" when coupled together; it's noticeable). I've
not had any operating problems with them at all and they were
running on the club layout for about 6 months, matched up with
every conceivable brand of equipment.

Tim O.

Tim,
When you say "couple a bit too closely" so you mean closer than the
correct scale dimension or closer than practical for good operation
on typical HO scale curves and turnouts?
Gene Green

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