Date   

Delware, Lackawanna & Western 11502 automobile boxcar

Lester Breuer
 

I have completed the build of Yarmouth Model Works resin kit 115.  It is Delaware, Lackawanna & Western, 11502, an all steel automobile rebuilt boxcar.  If you are interested in the build of this car including addition of chain wells (tubes) not in the kit, photos and writeup of the build process including paint and weathering are now available on my blog I have to share photos and writeup of modeling projects on my Minneapolis & Northland Railroad Company.   If you would like to take a look please do at the following link:

http://mnrailroadcab100.blogspot.com/

 

Lester Breuer


Re: Photo: Washington, Idaho & Montana Railway Boxcar

Tim O'Connor
 

1936 looks like a more likely date for the photo

This later photo (attached) appears to show a Bettendorf I-beam underframe

On 4/7/2020 2:57 PM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io wrote:

Photo: Washington, Idaho & Montana Railway Boxcar

A 1910 photo of car 442 from the Potlatch Historical Society Collection:

https://www.lib.uidaho.edu/digital/phs/items/phs1365.html

Click on the photo to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Re: Meat reefers

Fran Giacoma
 

Don,
The Erie interchanged with the New Haven Railroad at the large NH yard in Maybrook, NY. The New Haven interchanged with the B&M at Worcester, Fitchburg, and Lowell, MA. Both the NH and the B&M reached Worcester via branch lines. The NH reached Fitchburg and Lowell (both on the B&M main line) via branch lines out of Framingham, MA. 

Fran Giacoma


Re: Meat reefers

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

Ted Schnepf wrote:

"In the early 1950's before the meat packers expanded, by consolidating facilities. the only place to see some of these reefers 
together on one train was east of Chicago. NKP did have the line east out of Chicago. Dubuqe, Oscar Meyer, and Hormel. were 
one plant companies. Hygrade in the early 1950's had only one or two plants. Swift, Armour, and Wilson had multiple locations"

   To which I would add that east of the NKP the Erie seemed to carry more meat reefers going into New York or New England 
than any other road. They certainly carried the bulk of it going into New Haven territory. How it got to B&M territory I'd really like 
to know. The lesser amount of meat reefers coming into Northern New England came in over the CPR both to the MEC at St.
Johnsbury, VT and the B&M by the same routing as well as into Maine via the "Shortline", the CPR's route through Maine rather
than over it to get to the Maritimes. Likewise the B&O seems to have handled the bulk of the traffic into the mid-Atlantic states, 
especially for Morrell and Swift.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: Meat reefers

Bill Keene
 

The gift shop of the Kansas City Railroad Museum was housed in a Wilson meat reefer. It was my weekend “home” for several years. This part of my life has given me a fondness for meat reefers. 

Unfortunately, I model a little known Santa Fe branch line that once operated in east central Kansas. Meat reefers on this 50 miles of track would have been a rare event. Most likely if one were to arrive on the line it most surely was a very lost or somehow mis-directed car. 

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA



On Apr 7, 2020, at 2:40 PM, Brian Carlson via groups.io <prrk41361@...> wrote:

That’s the beauty of modeling part of the Erie Main through Pennsylvania. I can get most of them <grin>. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Apr 7, 2020, at 5:13 PM, Ted Schnepf <railsunl@...> wrote:


Hello,

Always nice to see fine reefer models.

In the early 1950's before the meat packers expanded, by consolidating facilities. the only place to see some of these reefers together on one train was east of Chicago. NKP did have the line east out of Chicago. Dubuqe, Oscar Meyer, and Hormel. were one plant companies. Hygrade in the early 1950's had only one or two plants. Swift, Armour, and Wilson had multiple locations.

My point is that not all meat reefers would be regularly seen, on the same train, except east of Chicago. When picking reefers to model, be aware of the plant locations and likely routing over your railroad.

Ted Schnepf

On Tuesday, April 7, 2020, 06:54:16 AM CDT, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:


Frank Hodina shares photos and details on a few meat reefers in the latest Resin Car Works blog post. 


Eric Hansmann
RCW web guy

Be safe. Stay healthy. Build models!



Re: Meat reefers

Tony Thompson
 

Ted Schnepf wrote:

In the early 1950's before the meat packers expanded, by consolidating facilities. the only place to see some of these reefers together on one train was east of Chicago . . . My point is that not all meat reefers would be regularly seen, on the same train, except east of Chicago. 

    Good point, Ted. But remember they all came back west empty. Lots of photos of westward trains in the steam era show quite a mix of meat cars, presumably empty.

Tony Thompson




Re: Meat reefers

Brian Carlson
 

That’s the beauty of modeling part of the Erie Main through Pennsylvania. I can get most of them <grin>. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Apr 7, 2020, at 5:13 PM, Ted Schnepf <railsunl@...> wrote:


Hello,

Always nice to see fine reefer models.

In the early 1950's before the meat packers expanded, by consolidating facilities. the only place to see some of these reefers together on one train was east of Chicago. NKP did have the line east out of Chicago. Dubuqe, Oscar Meyer, and Hormel. were one plant companies. Hygrade in the early 1950's had only one or two plants. Swift, Armour, and Wilson had multiple locations.

My point is that not all meat reefers would be regularly seen, on the same train, except east of Chicago. When picking reefers to model, be aware of the plant locations and likely routing over your railroad.

Ted Schnepf

On Tuesday, April 7, 2020, 06:54:16 AM CDT, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:


Frank Hodina shares photos and details on a few meat reefers in the latest Resin Car Works blog post. 


Eric Hansmann
RCW web guy

Be safe. Stay healthy. Build models!


Re: Meat reefers

Ted Schnepf
 

Hello,

Always nice to see fine reefer models.

In the early 1950's before the meat packers expanded, by consolidating facilities. the only place to see some of these reefers together on one train was east of Chicago. NKP did have the line east out of Chicago. Dubuqe, Oscar Meyer, and Hormel. were one plant companies. Hygrade in the early 1950's had only one or two plants. Swift, Armour, and Wilson had multiple locations.

My point is that not all meat reefers would be regularly seen, on the same train, except east of Chicago. When picking reefers to model, be aware of the plant locations and likely routing over your railroad.

Ted Schnepf

On Tuesday, April 7, 2020, 06:54:16 AM CDT, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:


Frank Hodina shares photos and details on a few meat reefers in the latest Resin Car Works blog post. 


Eric Hansmann
RCW web guy

Be safe. Stay healthy. Build models!


Fruit Growers & Western Fruit Overhead Bunker Reefers—was WFEX 1201-1202 freight reefers

Bill Welch
 

If Athearn has produced an accurate model of a Fruit Growers Express “Overhead Bunker” or “OB” car, it is one of the best-kept secrets in the history of the world. Likewise if they have lettered one of their existing models as a FGE “OB” car, it is one of the biggest FOOBIES in the history of the world.

FGE built their first OB types in 1940 at the Indiana Harbor Car Shops. There were only ten of these all-steel cars built to load frozen foods, then still a relatively new product. These cars had ten ice bunkers under the roof—these were really trays—that were used to hold a mixture of salt and ice that could produce a temperature of 28° F. It is unclear whether FGE intended to build more of these only to be interrupted by WWII. These ten cars were heavily insulated and the door and safety hardware had to be inset into the steel side panel sheathing to allow them to meet clearance standards.

In 1944 again at Indiana Harbor FGE began to build a very different looking Overhead Bunker refrigerator car with a heavy Fishbelly centersill, 4/5 Dreadnaught ends, and plywood sheathed sides with steel panels on the ends and doors to again permit their respective hardware to be inset. These were the first cars to be designated and stenciled “FOBX.” These cars used the same basic roof hatch design as the 1940 built OB cars. Their roof hatch covers were hinged perpendicular to the running board. They also had permanent Charcoal heaters slung under the floor. These were in the FOBX 4000 series.

In 1946 FGE built more of these types in the FOBX 700 series with a new hatch cover design hinged parallel to the running board. These hatches had a much more pronounced rectangular shape then the previous design. These too had underslung charcoal heaters. Then in 1950 Indiana Harbor built 150 new all steel overhead bunker reefers, FOBX 600–699 and WOBX 501–550 for Western Fruit, their first and only such types. (The earlier 600 series had been previously scrapped.) The new cars used the same roof and roof hatch cover design from the 1944 group of cars. Because of the tray type brine storage, these OB types required much more care and thus time when re-icing so as not to breach the waterproof lining: This meant no pointed tools.

Because brine could only achieve 28° F the shippers of frozen foods pressed for methods to get to 0° F. Truckers could get to Zero with the new Mechanical systems manufactured by Thermo-King, who perfected their innovative mobile refrigeration system on the battlefields of WWII. Fruit Growers especially felt the competition from truckers and thus FGE and their partners WFE and BRE began to research and test various powered and unpowered refrigeration systems capable of producing much colder temperatures and by 1949 had both one diesel and one gasoline powered 40-foot Mechanical reefer being tested shipping frozen foods. By 1957 the FGE-WFE-BRE System had some 1,200 40- and 50-foot Mechanicals in service.

Despite the large number of Mechanical reefers available by 1957 the OB cars continued in-service into the 1960’s. By that time the plywood sheathed cars had their sheathing replaced with T&G boards.

For anyone interested in modeling I am working on the End Pattern for the FOBX 4000 group as part of a collaborative effort to create model.

Bill Welch


Re: Modellogenic scene: from ErieLack NPS photos

Charles Peck
 

I agree the roof has what look like ice hatches. On the other hand, did any
reefer ever have sliding doors?  I see no sign that there were ever any hinges
for swinging doors.
Chuck Peck

On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 3:07 PM Jack Mullen <jack.f.mullen@...> wrote:
On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 11:21 AM, Richard Brennan wrote:
- the no end-platform contractor business car (converted traction baggage?)
Notice the ice hatches at each end, which suggest this is a former express refrigerator. Possibly ex-traction, but the flat ends make me think it's of steam-road origin. Clerestory roofs were uncommon but did appear on some early express reefers, e.g. Wells Fargo.

Jack Mullen


Photo: Pres-To-Logs Boxcar

Andy Carlson
 

My 1st visit to Mendocino county was in 1966 and I could easily remember seeing the huge sign painted on a metal roof on top of a mill building along side of the North Western Pacific RR tracks in the town of Ukiah. Said, as I remember, "Home of the Presto Logs". It disappeared a few years later, though I believe the mill building still stands. Lots of 40' box cars and 53' flat cars abound. Thanks for the images!
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA



Photo: Pres-To-Logs Boxcar

A 1930 photo of car 426 from the Potlatch Historical Society Collection:

https://www.lib.uidaho.edu/digital/phs/items/phs1369.html

Click on the photo to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Modellogenic scene: from ErieLack NPS photos

Jack Mullen
 

On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 11:21 AM, Richard Brennan wrote:
- the no end-platform contractor business car (converted traction baggage?)
Notice the ice hatches at each end, which suggest this is a former express refrigerator. Possibly ex-traction, but the flat ends make me think it's of steam-road origin. Clerestory roofs were uncommon but did appear on some early express reefers, e.g. Wells Fargo.

Jack Mullen


Photo: Washington, Idaho & Montana Railway Boxcar

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Washington, Idaho & Montana Railway Boxcar

A 1910 photo of car 442 from the Potlatch Historical Society Collection:

https://www.lib.uidaho.edu/digital/phs/items/phs1365.html

Click on the photo to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Pres-To-Logs Boxcar

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Pres-To-Logs Boxcar

A 1930 photo of car 426 from the Potlatch Historical Society Collection:

https://www.lib.uidaho.edu/digital/phs/items/phs1369.html

Click on the photo to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Modellogenic scene: from ErieLack NPS photos

Nolan Hinshaw
 

On Apr 7, 2020, at 11:21, Richard Brennan <rbrennan@tt-west.com> wrote:

There is -nothing- in this photo that is NOT eminently modelable!
Strewth! Even the pick and shovel in the lower-right octant contribute.
--
"This is a problem that fixes itself."
Professor H. Farnsworth.


Modellogenic scene: from ErieLack NPS photos

Richard Brennan
 

There is -nothing- in this photo that is NOT eminently modelable!
http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-04-07-20/X5292.jpg

- the no end-platform contractor business car (converted traction baggage?)
- composite gon with double stake pockets
- single-lane concrete underpass with warning signs (and a lurker!)
- tools in the mud ready for use...
- and the crashed pick-up truck in the ditch

Kearny NJ - from the NPS Steamtown photo collection on the ErieLack list.


--------------------
Richard Brennan - San Leandro CA
MP 17.8 - Robert [Roberts Landing] on the SP Mulford Line.
--------------------


Re: WFEX 1201-1202 freight reefers

Jim Betz
 

Ed,
  Perhaps  for company ice service?  As in moving big blocks of ice
from source (lake) to icing facilities?
  Or as experiment that was used for a few years but didn't really work?
                                                                                      - Jim


Meat reefers

Eric Hansmann
 

Frank Hodina shares photos and details on a few meat reefers in the latest Resin Car Works blog post. 


Eric Hansmann
RCW web guy

Be safe. Stay healthy. Build models!


Re: WFEX 1201-1202 freight reefers

spsalso
 

Tim,

They were much taller than those cars.

And, to head off possible suggestions, they had ice bunkers at the ends, so were unlikely to have got raised tops for that purpose.

I will succumb to my temptation, and suggest they were used for transporting potted trees.  Small-ish ones.  Something 10' tall, 3-4' wide, doesn't like warm temperatures?

If you've got an alternate load, I'm interested.  Sure weren't used for apples.

Ed

Edward Sutorik



On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 06:57 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Were they anything like the W&R models?

https://brasstrains.sirv.com/products/079574/0795740102.jpg


On 4/6/2020 9:30 PM, Donald B. Valentine via groups.io wrote:

    Out of curiosity alone I looked for these cars in my July 1947 ORER and, like you,  found them gone by that time. 
So I looked at the WFE and BREX rosters to see if they had anything similar, which they didn't. I had also look over 
my Athearn FOBX #4156 which is listed but has nowhere near the height of your two odd balls. With no similar cars
listed for the related companies I went back and looked at the January 1938 ORER and found both listed there and 
just as you described them. Sorry I can't offer any ore on these tow strange cars.
 
    Speaking of the Athearn FOBX #4156 does anyone know where Fruit Growers Express used these cars and who
they served? Fruit Growers was a large operator in New England, especially on the New Haven, so I bought it some
time ago to add variety to a reefer block.
 
Cordially, Don Valentine

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: WFEX 1201-1202 freight reefers

spsalso
 

Don,

I'm curious.  What's an Athearn FOBX #4156?  Maybe some kind of link, or something?

I see your 1938 ORER preceeds mine--good to know.

They don't show in my July 1945, although there ARE other interesting critters.


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Ed

Edward Sutorik


On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 06:30 PM, Donald B. Valentine wrote:
    Out of curiosity alone I looked for these cars in my July 1947 ORER and, like you,  found them gone by that time. 
So I looked at the WFE and BREX rosters to see if they had anything similar, which they didn't. I had also look over 
my Athearn FOBX #4156 which is listed but has nowhere near the height of your two odd balls. With no similar cars
listed for the related companies I went back and looked at the January 1938 ORER and found both listed there and 
just as you described them. Sorry I can't offer any ore on these tow strange cars.
 
    Speaking of the Athearn FOBX #4156 does anyone know where Fruit Growers Express used these cars and who
they served? Fruit Growers was a large operator in New England, especially on the New Haven, so I bought it some
time ago to add variety to a reefer block.
 
Cordially, Don Valentine

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