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Re: freight car paint schemes was:[RealSTMFC] Funaro 1932 CP Boxcar

Eric Lombard
 

Hello Everyone...

Tony wrote: " I didn't have in mind a COMPLETE list of EVERY change on EVERY railroad. But many of us could benefit from a timeline of MAJOR changes on the big railroads."  

I dare offer up attached spreadsheet for examination. As some of you know, I have been working on a database of box cars since the mid-eighties. The focus is documentation for every box car series built new between 1910 and 1944. Also included is every series renumbered, or rebuilt, or renumbered and rebuilt from those new series, all with service histories based on ORER car counts, railroad records, government publications, and other documentation. This extends the scope of the data into the early 1980's. Certain series suiting my eclectic tastes reach back into the 1890's. As a relational database, series are linked to published photos, plans, equipment diagrams, and citations from documents. At the moment there are (rounded) entries for 8500 series representing 576 car owners, based on 31,000 citations to 5500 documents. In addition, there are links to 13,400 instances of photos and 6600 drawings, I recite this to put the attached spreadsheet in perspective.

The timeline constructed as a side project to the above has 1700 records. The attached excerpt at 451 records is a subset related to RR specific graphics and general MCB, ARA, AAR recommendations or requirements. The entries are accessioned only when encountered in pursuit of information related to the larger goal above: i.e.no attempt has been made to research paint and heraldry in a dedicated way. 

Reviewing the entries the deficits of a textural description not accompanied by drawings and photos is evident. A relational database can do that with the addition of those items. At 450 entries over 35 years my accession rate has been about 15/year. Based on that I think dedicated work by a few focused individuals could complete a very useful document in less than a year.

Comments?

Eric Lombard
Homewood, IL


On Thu, Jul 18, 2019 at 7:26 PM al.kresse <water.kresse@...> wrote:
Are you only interested in western railroads? Every type of revenue producing car? . . . or also M&W and cabooses? What eras  . . . . 1900-1972 say for the C&O? . . . or 1926-1962?  etc.?

Al Kresse

> On July 18, 2019 at 7:55 PM Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:
>
>
>       I didn't have in mind a COMPLETE list of EVERY change on EVERY railroad. But many of us could benefit from a timeline of MAJOR changes on the big railroads. I don't think it would have to be huge, though of course some railroads were pretty changeable.
>        Likely few if any of us could sit down and write it. But most of us know ONE railroad (or a few) well enough to summarize. That's the kind of thing I meant. I can offer an SP one and a few other roads I know.
>
> Tony Thompson
> tony@...
>
>
>
>
>
>




Re: Funaro 1932 CP Boxcar ( freight car paint schemes)

Steve SANDIFER
 

I can’t make either of these links open. Any suggestions?

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2019 12:31 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Funaro 1932 CP Boxcar ( freight car paint schemes)

 

Dick Harley produced this presentation on Union Pacific painting and lettering schemes covering 1940 to 1975:

https://harley-trains.smugmug.com/UP-PLN-FRT/2010-UP-Freight-PLN-Clinic/

The presentation is part of this UP Freight Car Painting & Lettering information:

https://harley-trains.smugmug.com/UP-PLN-FRT

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Mathieson Tank Cars (Caustic Soda)

spsalso
 

From this:

https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=214938

it appears carbon steel can handle caustic soda up to about 120-150 degrees F.  I imagine, back in steam days, the tank cars had unlined steel tanks.


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: 1937 AAR boxcar with wrong roof 😞😞😞

Paul Doggett
 

Speedwitch media relaunch decal set.

Paul 


On 19 Jul 2019, at 20:39, Bill Keene via Groups.Io <bill41@...> wrote:

Can someone offer a recommendation for a source of decals for the C&EI 1937 AAR box car in its as-delivered paint scheme?

Thanks & cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Jul 19, 2019, at 9:55 AM, Nathan Obermeyer via Groups.Io <obermeyern@...> wrote:

Paul,

What year do you model? In 1963 these cars received a new side sill, roof, and doors. I've attached an as built image and a rebuilt image from 1976 after the merger with the Mopac.

Nate <cei64103.JPG><mp117414  Springfield, Mo.  January 11, 1976.jpg>


Re: 1937 AAR boxcar with wrong roof 😞😞😞

Brian Carlson
 

Speedwitch relaunch set. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Jul 19, 2019, at 3:39 PM, Bill Keene via Groups.Io <bill41@...> wrote:

Can someone offer a recommendation for a source of decals for the C&EI 1937 AAR box car in its as-delivered paint scheme?

Thanks & cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Jul 19, 2019, at 9:55 AM, Nathan Obermeyer via Groups.Io <obermeyern@...> wrote:

Paul,

What year do you model? In 1963 these cars received a new side sill, roof, and doors. I've attached an as built image and a rebuilt image from 1976 after the merger with the Mopac.

Nate <cei64103.JPG><mp117414  Springfield, Mo.  January 11, 1976.jpg>


Re: 1937 AAR boxcar with wrong roof 😞😞😞

Bill Keene
 

Can someone offer a recommendation for a source of decals for the C&EI 1937 AAR box car in its as-delivered paint scheme?

Thanks & cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Jul 19, 2019, at 9:55 AM, Nathan Obermeyer via Groups.Io <obermeyern@...> wrote:

Paul,

What year do you model? In 1963 these cars received a new side sill, roof, and doors. I've attached an as built image and a rebuilt image from 1976 after the merger with the Mopac.

Nate <cei64103.JPG><mp117414  Springfield, Mo.  January 11, 1976.jpg>


Re: Atlas Freight Car Announcement

Bill Welch
 
Edited

Regarding the various 1932 offering I built several Sunshine—NC&StL freight and express; SAL freight and express ventilator, WRT; CofG; CRR; and F&C—NdeM; CGW; BAR. Then at some point I picked the undec. Atlas Erie and one with Dreadnaught ends and Murphy roof. I like the Erie example well enough I built it instead of the Sunshine kit I have because the Atlas roof and sill are better I think and built the other for I-GN. I offered the link to my ARA/AAR Steel Boxcar Modeling Clinic here and on the Styrene Modeling site where I cover these two models. I think they hold up well compared to both Sunshine and F&C that were originally done for Yankee Clipper. I did fabricate new doors for both from InterMountain and Tichy doors.

I will reserve one of the kits with the flat panel roof to harvest the roof and ends for a NC&StL re-build w/a Tichy flat car underframe and one of the C&O types to harvest the roof.

Bill Welch


Re: Atlas Freight Car Announcement

Douglas Harding
 

The key word is “representative”. When these cars were first released members of this group chided Atlas for inaccuracies. No one knew who Atlas’s “expert” was. And photos of the supposed Cudahy prototype seemed to be non-existent. The car had 4 hinges instead of the more common 6 hinges on the doors. The underframe was something that had not been seen on a meat reefer. And of course the operating doors and hatches were carryovers from the O scale model that Atlas downsized to HO, causing the details to appear oversize and out of scale. One solution was shave off the door hinges and replace them with Grandt Line reefer hinges while gluing the door closed. In addition only one grab iron was on the left side, requiring the addition of a second grab for many p/l schemes.

 

I recall four versions, with or without truss rods. Each was offered with grab irons or ladders, which may be the difference between the body styles.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Aley, Jeff A
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2019 10:26 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Atlas Freight Car Announcement

 

A quick look at page 48 of the Atlas summer 2019 catalog (http://download.atlasrr.com/0619MCPDF/Summer2019MSRPOnly.pdfshows that these are new paint schemes on their existing meat reefer. 

 

Atlas says, “PROTOTYPE INFORMATION: The 36’ reefer is a highly detailed model of the car that was a mainstay in the meatpacking industry during the steam era. Based upon cars built by the General American Car Company for the Cudahy Packing Co. in 1925, the 36’ wood reefer is representative of the thousands of cars that transported meat, dairy, beer and food products well into the 1960’s.”

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dave Parker via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2019 8:17 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Atlas Freight Car Announcement

 

I am intrigued by the three variations in the 36' meat reefers, and also prefer the undecs.  Body Style 2 looks like it might be close to some Swift prototypes.  No photo yet for Body Type 1.  I am wary of the operational doors and hatches, but maybe they can be made to look OK.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA


Re: Atlas Freight Car Announcement

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Bill and Friends,

I see that Atlas will be offering their ARA 1932 boxcar in an undecorated in "Body Style 2" (with the flat plate ends). This is essentially correct for the Seaboard class B-6, though it does have some problems. Upgrading this car was covered by John Golden and Justin May in the SEABOARD-COAST LINE MODELER for March 2009. This car is useful for all us steam-era "Y'all Railroad" modelers. I may to try to get one, though I need another boxcar like I need a hole in my head.

I see they are offering undecorated models of styles 1, 2 and 5. Has anyone ever done an analysis of the various Atlas body styles for the 1932 ARA boxcars? I know some of the detail combinations were worthy of Train Miniature, but with a shot-gun approach at least some of these must have had a prototype or two beside the standard design. I do have a print-out of John Hile's STMFC post from 2008, but it only discusses six cars Atlas released pre-lettered: CG, CRR, I-GN, MEC, CRR and WRTCo. Since I have a couple of F&C kits, plus a Sunshine Norfolk Southern, all unbuilt, I probably won't spring for any others unless the bodies are unique.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


On 7/19/19 5:35 AM, Bill Welch wrote:
This link shows a few freight car releases for the era of this group. I like undecorated and so the three 1932 variations are of interest to me plus I think I may get one of the little meat reefers: https://mycaboose.com/new-releases/atlas-ho-rolling-stock-summer-advanced-reservations?utm_source=Caboose+Newsletter&utm_campaign=e5cbde1b3e-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_03_09_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_907397b93c-e5cbde1b3e-100264421&mc_cid=e5cbde1b3e&mc_eid=fef507ff99

Not sure why "ATHEARN" is present but I think it can be ignored

Bill Welch


Re: 1937 AAR boxcar with wrong roof 😞😞😞

Paul Doggett
 

Nathan 

I model 1950-3 

Cheers 
Paul Doggett 


On 19 Jul 2019, at 17:55, Nathan Obermeyer via Groups.Io <obermeyern@...> wrote:

Paul,

What year do you model? In 1963 these cars received a new side sill, roof, and doors. I've attached an as built image and a rebuilt image from 1976 after the merger with the Mopac.

Nate

Attachments:


Re: Atlas Freight Car Announcement

Benjamin Hom
 

RJ Dial asked:
"...are you able to determine what the variants 1,2 & 5 are referring to in terms of details for configuration?"

Atlas went through the trouble to tool different variations of the 1932 ARA steel boxcar as follows:
#1 - Long tab body, Murphy Panel Roof, 4/4 Dreadnaught Ends
#2 - Long tab body, 11 panel flat riveted roof, flat-riveted ends
#3 - Short tab body, Hutchins radial roof, 4/4 Dreadnaught ends
#4 - Short tab body, Viking corrugated roof, Buckeye ends
#5 - Long tab body, 11 panel flat riveted roof, 4/4 Dreadnaught ends
#6 - Long tab body, Viking corrugated roof, 4/4 Dreadnaught ends
#7 - Long tab body, Murphy panel roof, flat riveted end

Link to Ed hawkins' spreadsheet detailing variations here:


Ben Hom







Re: 1937 AAR boxcar with wrong roof 😞😞😞

Nathan Obermeyer
 

Paul,

What year do you model? In 1963 these cars received a new side sill, roof, and doors. I've attached an as built image and a rebuilt image from 1976 after the merger with the Mopac.

Nate


Re: Mathieson Tank Cars (Vendome Tank Car Company)

Bob Chaparro
 

Vendome Desk Blotters

One example:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/350981490550

There are other Vendome desk blotters to be seen on E-Bay. Just search for Vendome + Blotter
The blotters are like large business cars and contain company information plus comic illustrations.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: 5th Avenue Car Shops/Accurail CB&Q XM-30 Boxcar

David North
 

Hi Tim,

I think I picked this kit up on n of my US trips back prior to 2006.

This website worked OK for me just now.

http://www.accurail.com/accurail/art/custom/carshops/carshops.htm

Doesn’t appear to have been updated since mid 2017.

Is that the one you were trying?

Cheers

Dave


Re: Mathieson Tank Cars (Caustic Soda)

Dave Parker
 

Bob, I don't doubt it, but this was in the 1990s wasn't it?  I am not aware of epoxy-lined cars in the steam era, especially pre-WWII.  But there were plenty of caustic soda tank cars around back then.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA


Re: Atlas Freight Car Announcement

radiodial868
 

Bill, are you able to determine what the variants 1,2 & 5 are referring to in terms of details for configuration?
RJ Dial
Burlingame, CA


Re: Mathieson Tank Cars (Caustic Soda)

Bob Chaparro
 

Dave, if it wasn't glass then he said epoxy. They had a number of cars in the same area all undergoing renewal of their epoxy linings.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: Atlas Freight Car Announcement

Aley, Jeff A
 

A quick look at page 48 of the Atlas summer 2019 catalog (http://download.atlasrr.com/0619MCPDF/Summer2019MSRPOnly.pdf shows that these are new paint schemes on their existing meat reefer. 

 

Atlas says, “PROTOTYPE INFORMATION: The 36’ reefer is a highly detailed model of the car that was a mainstay in the meatpacking industry during the steam era. Based upon cars built by the General American Car Company for the Cudahy Packing Co. in 1925, the 36’ wood reefer is representative of the thousands of cars that transported meat, dairy, beer and food products well into the 1960’s.”

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dave Parker via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2019 8:17 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Atlas Freight Car Announcement

 

I am intrigued by the three variations in the 36' meat reefers, and also prefer the undecs.  Body Style 2 looks like it might be close to some Swift prototypes.  No photo yet for Body Type 1.  I am wary of the operational doors and hatches, but maybe they can be made to look OK.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA


Re: Atlas Freight Car Announcement

Dave Parker
 

I am intrigued by the three variations in the 36' meat reefers, and also prefer the undecs.  Body Style 2 looks like it might be close to some Swift prototypes.  No photo yet for Body Type 1.  I am wary of the operational doors and hatches, but maybe they can be made to look OK.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA


Re: Side & end ladder variations

Tim O'Connor
 


Good point. I've long been aware (since I learned there were different numbers
of rungs) of ladder variations and have tried, at least, to locate them based on
photos. And I've trimmed more than a few at top and bottom to try and match a
prototype.



On 7/18/2019 7:13 PM, Tom Madden via Groups.Io wrote:
When scanning negatives at the Colorado RR Museum I'm always on the lookout for things that might interest steam era modelers. The attached photo shows the "A" ends of IC (left) and UP (right) boxcars of similar construction, with identical "rolling pin" Improved Dreadnought ends and 7-rung ladders. But look at the differences in the tops of the ladders, where the stiles terminate. The rungs, as far as I can tell, are in the same locations on the two cars.

Tom Madden

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts