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Steve and Barb Hile
 

I apologize for the intrusion.  Please ignore this.  I am testing the email delivery delays I am experiencing with Earthlink and Groups.io
 
Steve Hile


Re: GCSX Flat Car [was Barriger Library AC&F Photos]

Ed Hawkins
 



On Apr 22, 2020, at 10:18 AM, Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:

I’m glad to have Don Valentine’s info about the use of the Rutland cars to haul granite blocks, so I can justify using one on my (future) ERIE layout . . . but I’m wondering if Ed Hawkins can answer the question out of the ACF records, whether the drawings for these cars (assuming they’re in the collection) show any other railroad users?

Schuyler,
The ACF drawing collection at the National Museum of Transportation has 4 drawings that pertain to lot 2551. All are dated in the range July-October 1942. 

31-3812 Lettering Diagram (also applies to lot 2558 GSCX ash transfer cars)
41-3419 Steel Details (also applies to lots 2544, 2552)
61-3594 General Arrangement (also applies to lots 2520, 2552)
61-3595 Brake Arrangement

The Barriger Flickr web site also has photos for related lots 2544 (U.S. Navy), 2552 (U.S. Coast Guard), and 2520 Nicaro Nickel Co. (Defense Plant order). 

If interested in obtaining copies/digital scans of any drawings, contact Teresa Militello, curator of the NMOT library at tma.teresa2@.... Keep in mind that at this time the NMOT is closed due to coronavirus restrictions.

Regards,
Ed Hawkins



Re: Bridge Girder On Flat Cars

Lloyd Keyser
 

I agree I can't believe this girder is not mounted vertically except the tie down is much easier and cheaper. Does any one have a picture of how the cross members that go between two of these girders are shipped. We always see the girders but never the rest of the structural parts. I assume (that word always gets me in trouble) that at least the vertical cross members are at least partially assembled and are shipped in a gon. Would like to see this from an over head shot showing how they are tied down.  Also the modelers don't seem to model this gon only a main girder.
Lloyd Keyser

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 10:31 AM Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

My immediate thought too, Brian.  What’s up with that?  There wouldn’t be any clearance issues with that girder if shipped vertically, as most are.

 

Schuyler

 

Surprised they laid the girder on its weak axis. 

Brian J. Carlson 



On Apr 22, 2020, at 8:55 AM, Kemal Mumcu via groups.io <kemal_mumcu@...> wrote:

Lots of stuff to observe here.  What I find most interesting is the difference in lettering application on these two identical CP flat cars.  I guess I'll have to build one of each! 

From Vancouver Archives depicting Western Bridge Company, Vancouver BC.  About 1946. 

Colin Meikle

https://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/uploads/r/null/7/6/764460/fcd71ef8-b040-4cc8-9517-2aa7a3ae1053-A13454.jpg

https://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/uploads/r/null/7/5/756215/2530ca8e-da3f-46fa-bae4-702c680cd22f-A13455.jpg

https://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/uploads/r/null/7/5/759038/7cd664da-0d8d-4bb7-8512-0b4f9119e6df-A13457.jpg


Re: GCSX Flat Car [was Barriger Library AC&F Photos]

Douglas Harding
 

The 1935 date is because that is the last report the ORER publisher received from the Granite City Steel Company. You will often see dates in reports being different from the publication date.

 

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dave Parker via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 10:33 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] GCSX Flat Car [was Barriger Library AC&F Photos]

 

From the January, 1938, ORER.  Not sure why the reported data is from 1935.



--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: GCSX Flat Car [was Barriger Library AC&F Photos]

Dave Parker
 

From the January, 1938, ORER.  Not sure why the reported data is from 1935.



--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Bridge Girder On Flat Cars

Schuyler Larrabee
 

My immediate thought too, Brian.  What’s up with that?  There wouldn’t be any clearance issues with that girder if shipped vertically, as most are.

 

Schuyler

 

Surprised they laid the girder on its weak axis. 

Brian J. Carlson 



On Apr 22, 2020, at 8:55 AM, Kemal Mumcu via groups.io <kemal_mumcu@...> wrote:

Lots of stuff to observe here.  What I find most interesting is the difference in lettering application on these two identical CP flat cars.  I guess I'll have to build one of each! 

From Vancouver Archives depicting Western Bridge Company, Vancouver BC.  About 1946. 

Colin Meikle

https://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/uploads/r/null/7/6/764460/fcd71ef8-b040-4cc8-9517-2aa7a3ae1053-A13454.jpg

https://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/uploads/r/null/7/5/756215/2530ca8e-da3f-46fa-bae4-702c680cd22f-A13455.jpg

https://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/uploads/r/null/7/5/759038/7cd664da-0d8d-4bb7-8512-0b4f9119e6df-A13457.jpg


Re: GCSX Flat Car [was Barriger Library AC&F Photos]

Schuyler Larrabee
 

I’m glad to have Don Valentine’s info about the use of the Rutland cars to haul granite blocks, so I can justify using one on my (future) ERIE layout . . . but I’m wondering if Ed Hawkins can answer the question out of the ACF records, whether the drawings for these cars (assuming they’re in the collection) show any other railroad users?

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:11 AM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] GCSX Flat Car [was Barriger Library AC&F Photos]

 

Friends,

 

I just spotted this flat car among the Barriger Library AC&F photos: GCSX 106. It has 11 stake pockets, like the Athearn 40' flat car. It has long been a truism that Rutland 2700-2799 were the only match for this classic model. In his August 1993 RMJ article on these cars, Richard Hendrickson cautiously said " . . . one of the few prototypes . . . ", though he makes it clear in his text this was the only match he had found at that point. Obviously, here is another: https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/49618640708/in/album-72157649155982802/ .

 

The above photo is captioned " Granite City Flat Car". This probably stand for GCSX stands for "Granite City Steel"? I find no listing for GCSX in my 1958 ORER. The Fallen Flags web site has three photos of locomotives from Granite City Steel, but no further information.

 

So can anyone comment on whether these cars were for in-plant use, or might they have been seen in freight trains as private owner cars?

 

Thoughts to ponder.

 

Yours Aye,

 

 

Garth Groff  🦆


Re: Tracks along the Mon, circa 1934

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

All;

 

This photo has been shared before (Luke Swank is one of my favorite photographers), and those are, indeed, the infamous J&L tank cars spoken of so disrespectfully in the past.  This is a J&L/P&LE interchange, so one could be unsurprised at their presence, since it is likely they are moving in interchange, to J&L’s Aliquippa plant downriver (to rear).

 

Not that any of you are interested!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 10:10 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Tracks along the Mon, circa 1934

 

Eric,

 

The open load might be on a couple of PRR F22 or F23 flats with a spacer car.

 

OH M G! Are those tank cars the elusive J&L 20K gallon cars? And, at first glance, they appear to maybe be a light color... However, noting the tones of many other notably dark objects nearby, it suddenly becomes completely unclear if they are indeed light in color, or if that is simply sunlit highlights.  And of course that you can't actually tell the road name on the cars 😉

 

Regards

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Eric Hansmann <eric@...>
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 8:17 AM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io <RealSTMFC@groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Tracks along the Mon, circa 1934

 

I stumbled across this fine photo on the Historic Pittsburgh site. While it's not a pristine clear image, there are some neat freight cars in the yard on the right side of the image. Click on the image after the page opens so you can zoom in for a look around.

 

There's a cool open load on a couple of flat cars and interesting tank cars.

 

Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN


Re: Tracks along the Mon, circa 1934

Bruce Smith
 

Eric,

The open load might be on a couple of PRR F22 or F23 flats with a spacer car.

OH M G! Are those tank cars the elusive J&L 20K gallon cars? And, at first glance, they appear to maybe be a light color... However, noting the tones of many other notably dark objects nearby, it suddenly becomes completely unclear if they are indeed light in color, or if that is simply sunlit highlights.  And of course that you can't actually tell the road name on the cars 😉

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Eric Hansmann <eric@...>
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 8:17 AM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io <RealSTMFC@groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Tracks along the Mon, circa 1934
 
I stumbled across this fine photo on the Historic Pittsburgh site. While it's not a pristine clear image, there are some neat freight cars in the yard on the right side of the image. Click on the image after the page opens so you can zoom in for a look around.

There's a cool open load on a couple of flat cars and interesting tank cars.

Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN


Re: GCSX Flat Car [was Barriger Library AC&F Photos]

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

Garth and others,

    Lets not overook the "Coast Guard Yard flat car in the same grop of photos that was also
constructed in anuary 1943. The more we look I suspect the more we will find with 11 stake
pockets per side. I'm also wondering if the late Al Armatige mght have been the person behind
the Athearn flat car model havin worked with or for Athearn at one point and being from New
England himself. Anyone have any thoughts on this? I've never foud the source of any drawings
used to produce the model but know many other wjo are as happy as I am that Athern chose a
Rutland prototype to model. Given the use of marble as a building material and with Howe Scale
being located adjacent the Rutland's home yard in Rutland, Vt. there is reasonable justification 
for any modeler to have one of these Rutland flat cars on their model pike.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: GCSX Flat Car [was Barriger Library AC&F Photos]

James Brewer
 

GCSX = Granite City Steel Co., Granite City, IL

My July 1958 ORER indicates "Cars bearing these marks not registered in this issue of The Official Railway Equipment Register."

Jim Brewer


Re: GCSX Flat Car [was Barriger Library AC&F Photos]

Douglas Harding
 

According to http://www.nakina.net/other/report/report.html

GCSX Granite City Steel Co. 7/1930-1/1941; 1/1943-4/1961 (not listed)

Granite City Steel cars are not listed in the 1943 ORER.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 5:11 AM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] GCSX Flat Car [was Barriger Library AC&F Photos]

 

Friends,

 

I just spotted this flat car among the Barriger Library AC&F photos: GCSX 106. It has 11 stake pockets, like the Athearn 40' flat car. It has long been a truism that Rutland 2700-2799 were the only match for this classic model. In his August 1993 RMJ article on these cars, Richard Hendrickson cautiously said " . . . one of the few prototypes . . . ", though he makes it clear in his text this was the only match he had found at that point. Obviously, here is another: https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/49618640708/in/album-72157649155982802/ .

 

The above photo is captioned " Granite City Flat Car". This probably stand for GCSX stands for "Granite City Steel"? I find no listing for GCSX in my 1958 ORER. The Fallen Flags web site has three photos of locomotives from Granite City Steel, but no further information.

 

So can anyone comment on whether these cars were for in-plant use, or might they have been seen in freight trains as private owner cars?

 

Thoughts to ponder.

 

Yours Aye,

 

 

Garth Groff  🦆


Tracks along the Mon, circa 1934

Eric Hansmann
 

I stumbled across this fine photo on the Historic Pittsburgh site. While it's not a pristine clear image, there are some neat freight cars in the yard on the right side of the image. Click on the image after the page opens so you can zoom in for a look around.

There's a cool open load on a couple of flat cars and interesting tank cars.

Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN


Re: Bridge Girder On Flat Cars

Bruce Smith
 

Colin,

Not that it impacts P&L but these cars are not identical. The car on the left, 33510?, appears to have a splice in the middle of the side. Interesting, the use of arch bar trucks on these cars circa 1946. Note that the reweigh on the left car is 8/46 and on the right is 7/45. Change of paint schemed between those dates?

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Kemal Mumcu via groups.io <kemal_mumcu@...>
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:55 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Bridge Girder On Flat Cars
 
Lots of stuff to observe here.  What I find most interesting is the difference in lettering application on these two identical CP flat cars.  I guess I'll have to build one of each! 

From Vancouver Archives depicting Western Bridge Company, Vancouver BC.  About 1946. 

Colin Meikle

https://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/uploads/r/null/7/6/764460/fcd71ef8-b040-4cc8-9517-2aa7a3ae1053-A13454.jpg

https://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/uploads/r/null/7/5/756215/2530ca8e-da3f-46fa-bae4-702c680cd22f-A13455.jpg

https://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/uploads/r/null/7/5/759038/7cd664da-0d8d-4bb7-8512-0b4f9119e6df-A13457.jpg


Re: Bridge Girder On Flat Cars

Brian Carlson
 

Surprised they laid the girder on its weak axis. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Apr 22, 2020, at 8:55 AM, Kemal Mumcu via groups.io <kemal_mumcu@...> wrote:

Lots of stuff to observe here.  What I find most interesting is the difference in lettering application on these two identical CP flat cars.  I guess I'll have to build one of each! 

From Vancouver Archives depicting Western Bridge Company, Vancouver BC.  About 1946. 

Colin Meikle

https://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/uploads/r/null/7/6/764460/fcd71ef8-b040-4cc8-9517-2aa7a3ae1053-A13454.jpg

https://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/uploads/r/null/7/5/756215/2530ca8e-da3f-46fa-bae4-702c680cd22f-A13455.jpg

https://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/uploads/r/null/7/5/759038/7cd664da-0d8d-4bb7-8512-0b4f9119e6df-A13457.jpg


Bridge Girder On Flat Cars

Kemal Mumcu
 

Lots of stuff to observe here.  What I find most interesting is the difference in lettering application on these two identical CP flat cars.  I guess I'll have to build one of each! 

From Vancouver Archives depicting Western Bridge Company, Vancouver BC.  About 1946. 

Colin Meikle

https://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/uploads/r/null/7/6/764460/fcd71ef8-b040-4cc8-9517-2aa7a3ae1053-A13454.jpg

https://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/uploads/r/null/7/5/756215/2530ca8e-da3f-46fa-bae4-702c680cd22f-A13455.jpg

https://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/uploads/r/null/7/5/759038/7cd664da-0d8d-4bb7-8512-0b4f9119e6df-A13457.jpg


Re: Walthers 40' gon

Steven D Johnson
 

Hugh,

 

According to the Walthers item number you provided, the kit you have is this one:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Walthers-933-6859-Undecorated-40-039-Gondola-Kit-/233539963738?hash=item3660110b5a%3Ag%3ACNQAAOSwTYFefRcq&nma=true&si=00KqBGaBxMinvCDUfvPmhMPgVTI%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

It’s a model of a USRA WW I-era composite drop-bottom gondola with numerous prototypes. InterMountain produces a better-detailed model in HO. 

 

I’ll let the other guys chime in with more, but also found these on-line:

 

https://mrr.trains.com/-/media/import/files/pdf/7/5/f/transition-era_gondolas.pdf

 

and

 

 

 U.S.R.A. Composite Gondola
Prototype Modeler, August 1979 page 39
( GONDOLA, "HENDRICKSON, RICHARD", USRA, FREIGHTCAR, PROTOTYPE, PMM )

USRA Composite Gondola: 50-ton drop-bottom car
Mainline Modeler, July/August 1981 page 18
Article also published in The Best of Mainline Modeler's Freight Cars Volume 3 , page 23
( C&O, CB&Q, DRAWING, GONDOLA, "HUNDMAN, ROBERT L.", L&N, "LANE, JAMES E.", MP, NYC,
SR, USRA, FREIGHTCAR, PROTOTYPE, MM )

USRA Composite Gondola: Construction in HO scale
Mainline Modeler, September/October 1981 page 20
Article also published in The Best of Mainline Modeler's Freight Cars Volume 3 , page 30
( DRAWING, GONDOLA, "HUNDMAN, ROBERT L.", SCRATCHBUILD, USRA, CONSTRUCTION, FREIGHTCAR,
PROTOTYPE, HO, MM )

USRA Composite Gondola: 50-ton drop-bottom car
The Best of Mainline Modeler's Freight Cars Volume 3 page 23
Article also published in Mainline Modeler, July/August 1981, page 18
( C&O, CB&Q, DRAWING, GONDOLA, "HUNDMAN, ROBERT L.", L&N, "LANE, JAMES E.", MP, NYC,
SR, USRA, FREIGHTCAR, PROTOTYPE )

USRA Composite Gondola: Construction in HO scale
The Best of Mainline Modeler's Freight Cars Volume 3 page 30
Article also published in Mainline Modeler, September/October 1981, page 20
( DRAWING, GONDOLA, "HUNDMAN, ROBERT L.", SCRATCHBUILD, USRA, CONSTRUCTION,
FREIGHTCAR, PROTOTYPE )

 

 

Steve Johnson

Nashville, TN 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Hugh Guillaume via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2020 10:40 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Walthers 40' gon

 

Is there an actual prototype for Walthers 933-6859 40' gondola?  I did a search in the group files but did not find anything.  I have the unbuilt kit.  Not sure I really need it unless it can be built into something correct.  It is an undecorated kit.  Not sure I want to try tracking down decals for a model that does not represent a real prototype.


GCSX Flat Car [was Barriger Library AC&F Photos]

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Friends,

I just spotted this flat car among the Barriger Library AC&F photos: GCSX 106. It has 11 stake pockets, like the Athearn 40' flat car. It has long been a truism that Rutland 2700-2799 were the only match for this classic model. In his August 1993 RMJ article on these cars, Richard Hendrickson cautiously said " . . . one of the few prototypes . . . ", though he makes it clear in his text this was the only match he had found at that point. Obviously, here is another: https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/49618640708/in/album-72157649155982802/ .

The above photo is captioned " Granite City Flat Car". This probably stand for GCSX stands for "Granite City Steel"? I find no listing for GCSX in my 1958 ORER. The Fallen Flags web site has three photos of locomotives from Granite City Steel, but no further information.

So can anyone comment on whether these cars were for in-plant use, or might they have been seen in freight trains as private owner cars?

Thoughts to ponder.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆


Re: Walthers 40' gon

mofwcaboose <MOFWCABOOSE@...>
 

There was considerable variation in "Hart Convertible gondolas" as they were also called. A big selling point was that they could be used in revenue service as well as non-revenue service, which is why so many were listed in the ORER freight car rosters. In time most were relegated to maintenance of way. Some had side doors and removable ends so that they could be used with the Lidgerwood Rapid unloader. Many also had floors that could peaked in the middle to make them self-emptying. 

John C. La Rue, Jr.
Bonita Springs, FL


-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Apr 21, 2020 11:49 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Walthers 40' gon


Rodger-Hart gondolas were center dump cars mostly used for sand and
stone and railroads
bought them for maintenance of way. But I think there was more than one
style, so you'd
have to research your prototype.




On 4/21/2020 11:40 PM, Hugh Guillaume via groups.io wrote:
> Is there an actual prototype for Walthers 933-6859 40' gondola?  I did
> a search in the group files but did not find anything.  I have the
> unbuilt kit.  Not sure I really need it unless it can be built into
> something correct.  It is an undecorated kit.  Not sure I want to try
> tracking down decals for a model that does not represent a real prototype.


--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*




Re: Walthers 40' gon

Tim O'Connor
 

Rodger-Hart gondolas were center dump cars mostly used for sand and stone and railroads
bought them for maintenance of way. But I think there was more than one style, so you'd
have to research your prototype.

On 4/21/2020 11:40 PM, Hugh Guillaume via groups.io wrote:
Is there an actual prototype for Walthers 933-6859 40' gondola?  I did a search in the group files but did not find anything.  I have the unbuilt kit.  Not sure I really need it unless it can be built into something correct.  It is an undecorated kit.  Not sure I want to try tracking down decals for a model that does not represent a real prototype.
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

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