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Re: M&StL 50 fters

Fred in Vt. <pennsy@...>
 

Clark,

The first thing on the list would be Weirton Steel, and followed by brick,china,porcelain and clay items, ending at Koppers Butane Industrial track. [ installed during the Korean conflict]
These are located on the New Cumberland Branch, which went NE from Weirton Jct.
Now see if you can trace possible receivers of these items in Alameda, and the puzzle gets smaller.

Fred Freitas

----- Original Message -----
From: Clark Propst
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 12:28 PM
Subject: [STMFC] M&StL 50 fters


Saturday I bought photos of M&StL 2900 and 2902 from Joe Collias. These are PS1 50' box cars with 8' doors and DF loaders blt in 59. The photos were taken at Alameda CA in 1960. The cars are stenciled: WHEN EMPTY RETURN TO PRR WEIRTON W VA. Does anyone know what Weirton had that Alameda might have wanted??
Thanks,
Clark Propst





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Re: Who Are These Guys? - Bob's Photos

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Beckert, Shawn wrote:

Fellow Listers,

This photo was taken at the annual railroadiana show in
Gaithersburg, Maryland last year. Notice what's for sale
on the table in front of them:

http://www.railroadiana.org/Shows_gburg04/img_Photos.jpg

So who are these guys, and how extensive is their collection?
Shawn,

Bob Liljestrand, the Bob of Bob's Photo, is the one with the blue shirt.
I believe that his son is in the foreground. Many of us in the STMFC are
quite familiar with those loose leaf binders.

Tim Gilbert


Re: M&StL 50 fters

Greg Martin
 

Tony Thompson writes:

" After World War II, at least for auto parts, the pool arrangements were in
the form of written contracts and numbers of dedicated cars from each pool
contributor were specified. It wasn't exactly being "asked to contribute" in
that case. But other pools may have been less formal, as were even the auto
parts pools before WW II."



And your right Tony it was not as polite as I make it seems but again I deal
with these guys every day and I guess I would like negotiations like these
to be more polite... but they're not. Car hire, lost car days, reload on
spot... Yuck!

On PRR cars during the 50's, and I am sure Tony is very aware of this, the
pool numbers were painted on the PRR cars...

Greg Martin


Re: Pools, going in the deep end

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Beckert, Shawn wrote:
My understanding of a freightcar pool is the railroad that stands
to get the greatest percentage of the line haul business has to
contribute a corresponding number of cars to the pool. Other roads
which get a smaller piece of the revenue pie contribute fewer cars.
Nope. It is merely a negotiated agreement. There are examples in the documentation of the auto parts pools in which SP participated which demonstrate this. Grand Trunk contributed more than their share of cars in at least two pools, and there were roads (CB&Q was one IIRC) who refused to contribute the full proportional amount. The revenue, remember, comes from individual carloads, not some pool percentage.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Who Are These Guys?

armprem
 

Looks like Bob's Photos.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Beckert, Shawn" <shawn.beckert@disney.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 8:19 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Who Are These Guys?


Fellow Listers,

This photo was taken at the annual railroadiana show in
Gaithersburg, Maryland last year. Notice what's for sale
on the table in front of them:

http://www.railroadiana.org/Shows_gburg04/img_Photos.jpg

So who are these guys, and how extensive is their collection?

Thanks,

Shawn Beckert




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Re: M&StL 50 fters

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Greg Martin wrote:
One thing we don't address often on this list is the old railroads marketing approach to cars and car supply of years past. I am often reminded by the RR car applicators (still working for the major carriers) that the railroads were often ask to contribute cars to pools to assigned locations to return to for loading in order to participate in that commodity's distribution to plants on line. The theory was if you participate in the revenue you supply the needed cars to d the job.
After World War II, at least for auto parts, the pool arrangements were in the form of written contracts and numbers of dedicated cars from each pool contributor were specified. It wasn't exactly being "asked to contribute" in that case. But other pools may have been less formal, as were even the auto parts pools before WW II.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Who Are These Guys?

Tom Palmer
 

Looks like Bob of Bobs Photos. Thousands of photos and still coming.
Tom Palmer

----- Original Message -----
From: Beckert, Shawn
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 8/22/2005 7:19:39 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Who Are These Guys?


Fellow Listers,

This photo was taken at the annual railroadiana show in
Gaithersburg, Maryland last year. Notice what's for sale
on the table in front of them:

http://www.railroadiana.org/Shows_gburg04/img_Photos.jpg

So who are these guys, and how extensive is their collection?

Thanks,

Shawn Beckert


SPONSORED LINKS Train travel Freight car Canada train travel
Train travel in italy North american



YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

Visit your group "STMFC" on the web.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
STMFC-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


Who Are These Guys?

Shawn Beckert
 

Fellow Listers,

This photo was taken at the annual railroadiana show in
Gaithersburg, Maryland last year. Notice what's for sale
on the table in front of them:

http://www.railroadiana.org/Shows_gburg04/img_Photos.jpg

So who are these guys, and how extensive is their collection?

Thanks,

Shawn Beckert


Re: Pools, going in the deep end

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Beckert, Shawn" <shawn.beckert@d...>
wrote:
> My understanding of a freightcar pool is the railroad that stands
to get the greatest percentage of the line haul business has to
contribute a corresponding number of cars to the pool. Other roads
which get a smaller piece of the revenue pie contribute fewer cars.
That might explain why the CGW only bought one 60' auto parts car.
Clark Propst


Re: M&StL 50 fters

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

I had to post the image of M&StL 2900 in the photo section the files
section didn't have room. It's the last photo, just hit view all and
scroll down.
Clark Propst


Re: Pools, going in the deep end

Shawn Beckert
 

Clark Propst wrote:

I know little of car pools and am maybe oversimplifying things.
My definition of a pool would be: Railroad X buys freight cars
to carry an industries product. That industry loads and sends
the cars indecrimitly with the cars returning for another load
when empty.
My understanding of a freightcar pool is the railroad that stands
to get the greatest percentage of the line haul business has to
contribute a corresponding number of cars to the pool. Other roads
which get a smaller piece of the revenue pie contribute fewer cars.

Shawn Beckert


Re: M&StL 50 fters

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, timboconnor@c... wrote:
Clark, I would love to see a model of this car, since evidently
they ran on the SP in the 1960 era.
Tim, here's a link to a model.

http://www.eldora.net/lyndon/propst/boxcar2902.html

I'll post the prototype in the files section.
Clark propst


Pools, going in the deep end

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

I know little of car pools and am maybe oversimplifying things. My definition of a pool would be: Railroad X buys freight cars to carry an industries product. That industry loads and sends the cars indecrimitly with the cars returning for another load when empty.

I'm sure to find out how this really works.

Back when 5 railroads served Mason City the local cement plants ran a pool arrangement for box cars. If they were to ship 11 loads out on your RR then you were to supply them with 11 empties. You probably would not get the same cars back loaded you gave them empty. Most box cars in photos do not belong to the 5 local roads, lots of PRR cars. Although I have records of lots of CGW X29 style (Ted says AAR cars) with cement loads on the M&StL. Today the plants are still protected by a covered hopper pool. I'm told it's one of the every few still around.

Clark Propst


CGW ore

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

By the way, Clark, I know that the CGW billed some of its ore
hoppers to South Freeport for handling by the IC and I think it billed
some to Galena for the Q. Either line had a way from said locations
to East St. Louis. Yes, and some probably went to Marshalltown and
was turned over to the M&StL.

Tom
Tom,
Chet has provided great indepth information on the ore interchange
at S Freeport. I have records that ore traveled on the M&StL. I have
drawn a blank of the Q. They got it at East Dubuque. Most times
brought over from Fairgrounds yard by the Chicago Passenger train. I
need info on where exactly the Q got the ore and what they did with
it? In other words, how they handled the ore traffic to Granite City.
Thanks for any info on this subject,
Clark Propst
PS There's a new IT book with a photo of two of their geeps pulling
CGW 3 bay hoppers loaded with...what else? Ore of course. Thanks to
eagle eye French for finding that one.


Re: M&StL 50 fters

Tim O'Connor
 

Clark, I would love to see a model of this car, since evidently
they ran on the SP in the 1960 era. Can you post a photo?
Does it have tab sills, taper sills (what style?) Does it match
either the Intermountain or any Kadee version?

Tim O.

Tony wrote:
There were canneries in East Oakland and one on Alameda in
the
1940s. Elden's idea may well explain what that car was doing in
Alameda
(if it came there directly from Weirton).
I have been informed by an expert that they cars had 9' doors not 8'
as I had first mentioned.

Thanks for all the great replies. I think it is safe to assume
(using the CGW car assignments as a guide) these cars were purchased
for the Weirton pool and could have traveled anywhere in the country.
They were fortunately photograghed in Alameda. BTW they are not
coupled together, but in separate photos.
All agree, raise your hands....how many of you acually did? How many
of you would like to see models of these bright red cars with black
ends and 10'6" M dot ST L on the left and the road name in a white
horizonal stripe on the right with a diagonal stripe with Damage Free
in it?


Re: M&StL 50 fters

Douglas Harding <d.harding@...>
 

Clark
Tin plate equals Tin Cans, add in the M&StL and we arrive at Decker Meat in
Mason City. And don't forget the various canneries, ie Marshall Canning #5
in Roland, Grinnell Canning in Grinnell, etc.

Thanks everyone, now I have some new routing for waybills on the IaC.

Douglas Harding
Iowa Central Railroad
http://d.harding.home.mchsi.com


Re: M&StL 50 fters

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

Tony wrote:
There were canneries in East Oakland and one on Alameda in
the
1940s. Elden's idea may well explain what that car was doing in
Alameda
(if it came there directly from Weirton).
I have been informed by an expert that they cars had 9' doors not 8'
as I had first mentioned.

Thanks for all the great replies. I think it is safe to assume
(using the CGW car assignments as a guide) these cars were purchased
for the Weirton pool and could have traveled anywhere in the country.
They were fortunately photograghed in Alameda. BTW they are not
coupled together, but in separate photos.
All agree, raise your hands....how many of you acually did? How many
of you would like to see models of these bright red cars with black
ends and 10'6" M dot ST L on the left and the road name in a white
horizonal stripe on the right with a diagonal stripe with Damage Free
in it?

Thanks tons guys,
Clark


Re: M&StL 50 fters

Thomas Baker
 

Wierton, WV once had--maybe still does--a sprawling steel mill. Would that make any sense?

Tom

By the way, Clark, I know that the CGW billed some of its ore hoppers to South Freeport for handling by the IC and I think it billed some to Galena for the Q. Either line had a way from said locations to East St. Louis. Yes, and some probably went to Marshalltown and was turned over to the M&StL.

Tom

________________________________

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Clark Propst
Sent: Mon 8/22/2005 12:28 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] M&StL 50 fters



Saturday I bought photos of M&StL 2900 and 2902 from Joe Collias. These are PS1 50' box cars with 8' doors and DF loaders blt in 59. The photos were taken at Alameda CA in 1960. The cars are stenciled: WHEN EMPTY RETURN TO PRR WEIRTON W VA. Does anyone know what Weirton had that Alameda might have wanted??
Thanks,
Clark Propst







Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: M&StL 50 fters

Greg Martin
 

All,

This does make sense if the stock was shipped as cans or can stock in rolls as many of the cars Marked "WE" show up here in Salem, OR today loaded with empty cans for Truit Bros. canneries even today. Salem, OR is stuffed full of empty cans ("hey, he hates the cans..." excerpt from The Jerk) in just about every empty building in town and I am sure it was the case in the 50's as there were more canneries here then than now. The WE cars are from the current Wheeling and Lake Erie RR fleet. I am simply using this as a comparitive example albeit out of scope for this lists time period. So Tony and Garth this all plays together.

One thing we don't address often on this list is the old railroads marketing approach to cars and car supply of years past. I am often reminded by the RR car applicators (still working for the major carriers) that the railroads were often ask to contribute cars to pools to assigned locations to return to for loading in order to participate in that commodity's distribution to plants on line. The theory was if you participate in the revenue you supply the needed cars to d the job. Often the cars were incorrectly shipped to the wrong destination in error by the shipper. But the theory was that a CB&Q car loaded offline at one location was to route to the home road with a load. This often resulted in a car in the pool ending up at the wrong desto but that the user on the Q would be supplied anther like car from the same pool. It was often difficult to correct but they were generally recaptured and corrected at some point. So for the M&StL car it was likely in a pool and routed in error to California, but would likely get corrected at some point. Regardless the cars were in the "pool" and therefore carrying the correct commodity in this case likely cans or can stock. Many canneries had local companies that made cans from sheet or coil stock near by. We in Salem, OR have a small can producer (former American Can Co. plant) who chooses to use trucks rather than rail as we have experimented with transloading coil steel, but the damage created in transite makes trucking a better alternative. BTW te coils were shipped on pallets "eye to the sky".

Greg Martin

-----Original Message-----
From: Garth Groff <ggg9y@virginia.edu>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 14:21:54 -0400
Subject: Re: [STMFC] M&StL 50 fters


Clark and Greg,

If the cars shipped coils to Alameda, they might well have been
canstock. There was a large Del Monte cannery in Alamada. They primarily
canned pineapples from Hawaii, but I think did other fruit as well.
Strange that they would send all the Wierton for canstock though. Plenty
of it was rolled at USS Columbia in Pittsburg, California.

There was also a small steel fabrication plant in Alameda. it was
dormant by the time I lived there in the mid-1970s. The plant used
primarily structural steel.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

tgregmrtn@aol.com wrote:

Clark,

Likely coil steel rolls. Weirton W.VA. was a big steel town. The P&WV 40-foot
boxcars bought from both PS and AC&F were bought to handle coil steel rolls.

Greg Martin

-----Original Message-----
From: Clark Propst <cepropst@netconx.net>


Saturday I bought photos of M&StL 2900 and 2902 from Joe Collias. These are
PS1 50' box cars with 8' doors and DF loaders blt in 59. The photos were taken
at Alameda CA in 1960. The cars are stenciled: WHEN EMPTY RETURN TO PRR WEIRTON
W VA. Does anyone know what Weirton had that Alameda might have wanted??
Thanks,

Clark Propst




Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Bearings, was: Scale Weights - Doubt It

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Larry Jackman wrote:
My father went to work for the UN PAC in 1929 and these bearings were
called friction back then . . .
We have this debate regularly and often: shall we use the railroaders' term, or the professional industry term? Both can work, of course, but often the railroaders used different terms in different parts of the country, or even on different parts of the railroad or in different crafts on one railroad; and often they are slang or inaccurate or confusing terms, unless you know the context. That's why some of us prefer to use the professional literature terms (Cyclopedias, Railway Age, AAR Bulletins, etc.) Naturally YMMV.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history

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