Date   

Re: Unusual trucks on gon in American Smelting photo

Dave Parker
 

I have never seen or heard of a conventional freight truck with a wheelbase in excess of 6 feet.  Express trucks, sure.  But, freight trucks?

The 1901 IC car looks to my eye to have good old Fox trucks, probably the 40-t, 5-6 wheelbase variety.  Since it was built by PSC, that would make sense.  [IIRC, there was also a shorter, 30-t Fox, but the sideframe was somewhat different in shape].
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Question re: Lidgerwoods

William Canelos
 

Pacific Great Eastern had two of these machines.  They did not use them for truing loco wheels.  They were used by the wrecking crew to do wreck recovery.  There is an amazing book called "In the Ditch" by Eric Stathers  who worked on the wreck trains on the PGE and the recoveries they made using them show incredible knowledge of weights & balances as well as leverage.  PGE did not have a "big hook" only a 7000 pound crane. The Lidgerwoods along with that tiny crane saved their bacon time after time, A great read.

Definitely worth the read.  I got in on Amazon Kindle as an Ebook. 

Bill


Re: Unusual trucks on gon in American Smelting photo

Dennis Storzek
 

Further discussion tickled the gray cells. Here is a photo of a boxcar built by the Pressed Steel Car Co. in 1901 for the Iowa Central that has similar trucks:
https://www.midcontinent.org/equipment-roster/wooden-freight-cars/minneapolis-st-louis-4570/

Dennis Storzek


Re: F&C LV box car

bill woelfel
 

Car knocker will bad order that car, no couplers!  Looks great!


Re: Unusual trucks on gon in American Smelting photo

John Riddell
 

36’ truss-rod boxcar QRL&P No. 1119 rode on fox trucks until at least October 1952. The ORER does not indicate that it is  restricted from interchange. A color photo of November 12, 1950  is on page 5 of the CN Color Guide book by Morning Sun.

 

John Riddell

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: Tamiya Flat Clear TS-80 spray can

Brian Carlson
 

Tamiya from spray cans is just fine and quicker than getting out an airbrush for one car. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Apr 14, 2020, at 4:13 PM, Bill J. via groups.io <jolitzwr@...> wrote:

Eric, that is an important post!

I've tried on several occasions to dullcoat a car with a rattle can.  It has never worked to my satisfaction.  Cans 'sneeze' on liquid in too-large drops.  Only an airbrush gives small enough droplets.

More, I've had better experiences with the old faves than the new ones.  Maybe it's experience, maybe it's product.

Thanks for your blog,

Bill Jolitz


Re: Photo: Milwaukee Road Silk Train

Charles Happel
 

Chicago and Northwestern RPO's had the baggage doors close to the ends. Apologies for being off topic.

Chuck Happel


Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured.

Mark Twain


On Tuesday, April 14, 2020, 04:13:09 PM EDT, Ted Schnepf <railsunl@...> wrote:


Hi Andy,

Milw baggage cars generally had doors toward the car ends, above the trucks. A spotting feature for those cars.

Did any other railroad put the doors close to the car ends?

Ted Schnepf
126 Will Scarlet,
Elgin, Ill. 60120


847=697-5353

On Tuesday, April 14, 2020, 03:04:03 PM CDT, Andy Miller <aslmmiller@...> wrote:


Fascinating cars!   They look like, or are,  baggage cars with the doors at the ends of the side.  Was this typical for the Milwaukee or are they unique to the silk business? And why?

 

Regards,

 

Andy Miler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2020 2:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Milwaukee Road Silk Train

 

Photo: Milwaukee Road Silk Train

A 1921 Photo from the University of Washington:

https://digitalcollections.lib.washington.edu/digital/collection/imlsmohai/id/5538/rec/215

Caption: "By the end of the 1920s, the single most valuable import coming through Seattle was Japanese silk. This luxury material came to Seattle on fast steamships and was sent by express train to eastern markets. Because it was both expensive and perishable, silk needed to be handled very carefully. One train carried a cargo of silk valued at $5 million."

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Tamiya Flat Clear TS-80 spray can

Bill J.
 

Eric, that is an important post!

I've tried on several occasions to dullcoat a car with a rattle can.  It has never worked to my satisfaction.  Cans 'sneeze' on liquid in too-large drops.  Only an airbrush gives small enough droplets.

More, I've had better experiences with the old faves than the new ones.  Maybe it's experience, maybe it's product.

Thanks for your blog,

Bill Jolitz


Re: Photo: Milwaukee Road Silk Train

Ted Schnepf
 

Hi Andy,

Milw baggage cars generally had doors toward the car ends, above the trucks. A spotting feature for those cars.

Did any other railroad put the doors close to the car ends?

Ted Schnepf
126 Will Scarlet,
Elgin, Ill. 60120


847=697-5353

On Tuesday, April 14, 2020, 03:04:03 PM CDT, Andy Miller <aslmmiller@...> wrote:


Fascinating cars!   They look like, or are,  baggage cars with the doors at the ends of the side.  Was this typical for the Milwaukee or are they unique to the silk business? And why?

 

Regards,

 

Andy Miler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2020 2:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Milwaukee Road Silk Train

 

Photo: Milwaukee Road Silk Train

A 1921 Photo from the University of Washington:

https://digitalcollections.lib.washington.edu/digital/collection/imlsmohai/id/5538/rec/215

Caption: "By the end of the 1920s, the single most valuable import coming through Seattle was Japanese silk. This luxury material came to Seattle on fast steamships and was sent by express train to eastern markets. Because it was both expensive and perishable, silk needed to be handled very carefully. One train carried a cargo of silk valued at $5 million."

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Unusual trucks on gon in American Smelting photo

spsalso
 

I've got Tony's book, and those cars surely look the same as the one in the picture of interest.

I'm pretty confident in my scaling from the photo.  I found the center of the car, and measured to the inside end.  I also measured the spacing of the journal boxes.  Using the known dimension of 20' from the center to the end, I came up with approximately 6 3/4 feet.  Which is interesting, because the photos in Tony's book show trucks that appear to have more typical spacing of probably 5' - 6".  Strange.

UP 25218 has 164 brothers in the series 25000-25296 in the January 1939 ORER.  So, about half were still running.  I wonder how many of those had their original trucks.  For that matter, I wonder how many other sheet-metal trucks were running then.

Thank you, all, for considering my questions, 


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: Photo: Milwaukee Road Silk Train

Andy Miller
 

Fascinating cars!   They look like, or are,  baggage cars with the doors at the ends of the side.  Was this typical for the Milwaukee or are they unique to the silk business? And why?

 

Regards,

 

Andy Miler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2020 2:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Milwaukee Road Silk Train

 

Photo: Milwaukee Road Silk Train

A 1921 Photo from the University of Washington:

https://digitalcollections.lib.washington.edu/digital/collection/imlsmohai/id/5538/rec/215

Caption: "By the end of the 1920s, the single most valuable import coming through Seattle was Japanese silk. This luxury material came to Seattle on fast steamships and was sent by express train to eastern markets. Because it was both expensive and perishable, silk needed to be handled very carefully. One train carried a cargo of silk valued at $5 million."

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Striker Castings

Bob Webber
 

Usually - at least in Standard Steel cars, they had their own patterns for cast strikers.  We haven't yet scanned H&B strikers, as we've scanned very few of the H&B small drawings.  The Pullman strikers had a place to put pattern and material (MS, CS, etc.) - but it wasn't always filled.   Aside from one person, interested mostly in specific railroad's strikers, we've not had much call for them.  But...we have thousands.   The other aspect is that there are combined front lug / striker, draft arm, etc. that may have the striker casting integral or on the drawing (without a separate drawing). 

For the USRA Gondolas we have these drawings:
HB-7901-41-136.tif   Patt. No. 3424 - 4 1/4 x 8 Journal Box Lid - USRA Lots - Flats, Refrigerator, Gondola  
HB-7965-41-148.tif   Patt. No. 41527-M - Side Door Hinge Butt - Lots 5176, 5180. 5183, USRA Gondola    
HB-7967-41-149.tif   Patt. No. 41517-M - Side Door Bolt Staple - Lot 5176, 5180, 5183 1918 USRA Gondola  
HB-7969-41-150.tif   Patt. No. 25377--M - Side Door Bolt Staple - Lots 5176, 5180, 5183 USRA Gondola   
HB-7974-41-151.tif   Patt. No. 6499 - Signal Bracket  -Lots 5176, 5180, 5183 USRA Gondola              
HB-7978-41-153.tif   Side Door Pin & Chain - Lots 5176, 5180, 5183 USRA Gondola                        
HB-7979-41-154.tif   End Door Pin & Chain - Lots 5176, 5180, 5183 USRA Gondola                         
HB-7990-41-155.tif   Double Strap Bolt - Lots 5176, 5180, 5183 USRA Gondola                            
HB-7995-41-156.tif   Brake Steel Details - Lots 5176, 5180, 5183 USRA Gondola                          
HB-8264-41-199.tif   Standard Marking for USRA Journal Bearing - Lot 5178 1918 US Standard Gondola, Box  
HB-9687-14-49.tif    Link Operation Arrangement for toggle gear to USRA Gond                           
SS-50132.tif         Murphy steel end alt. construction USRA 50 ton Comp Gond car                      
SS-50132.tif         Murphy steel end alt. construction USRA 50 ton Comp Gond car                      
UMP-6705.TIF         USRA Panels for 50-Ton Composite Gondola - 1932                                   
UMP-6705.TIF         USRA Panels for 50-Ton Composite Gondola - 1932                                   
UMP-6705.TIF         USRA Panels for 50-Ton Composite Gondola - 1932   

Note that this is likely not ALL USRA Gondola drawings.  But also note, the first several have pattern numbers.  HB=Haskell & Barker, SS = Standard Steel Car, UMP = Union Metal Products. 

But...if it isn't on this list, it may take time (closed for the duration) to access.  

If it was an ACF built car, St. Louis would have the drawings. 

If this is a USRA copy and you have builder & year, we can likely find drawings.  There are holes and overlaps (due to where the drawings went, what were saved, etc.) 


At 10:46 AM 4/14/2020, Brian Stokes wrote:
Getting into the weeds here but should be appreciated by the list I think:

Were striker castings proprietary to a vendor or the car builder? I have found a couple of styles used on USRA gons, though most of the builder photos look to be a consistent style, and a bit different from the general arrangement drawings.

If they were proprietary, are there any resources or articles covering different designs? I've been browsing CBCs and hobby press online with no luck.

I'm working on a USRA 50-ton composite gon in proto:48 and trying to figure out the striker casting. The best photo I could find is attached (a detail of an image of a W&LE car pulled from Ted Culotta's 2018 St. Louis RPM presentation on his build of an L&M gon). I'm modelling an SP version (ex. El Paso & Southwestern).

If I can find drawings, the plan is to build a master and cast the assemblies I need, then incorporate them into scratch-built draft gear to house the Protocraft scale couplers... Needless to say, the entire project has ground to halt trying to figure this part out!

--
Brian Stokes
https://northpoint48.blogspot.com/

Bob Webber


Re: Striker Castings

Dennis Storzek
 

Unfortunately, Ike's Southern design is about ten years too new; it has the drawbar carry iron cast integral. The USRA design used a separate cast carry iron attached with a large bolt, and indeed, the huge nut shows in Brian's photo. The striker casting kind of shows in some general arrangement drawings in the 1922 CBC, but not in enough detail to do it justice in 1:48 scale. The 1919 CBC had more extensive coverage of the "Government cars", but I don't have a copy, although I know there is a scanned copy available on the web somewhere. Best bet would be to have Bob Webber pull the drawings at the Pullman Library, but I believe they are closed for the duration.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box

mofwcaboose <MOFWCABOOSE@...>
 

PGE 6072 (the crane in the film) was a 35-ton Ohio locomotive crane. Such cranes have been pressed into service to help clear wrecks when nothing else was available. And  a few wreck cranes in that part of the world did include a Lidgerwood. They were used for their steady pulling power.

John C. La Rue, Jr.
Bonita Springs, FL


-----Original Message-----
From: bill woelfel via groups.io <bwoelfeljr@...>
To: main <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Sent: Mon, Apr 13, 2020 9:42 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box

Thats not really a wrecker, looks more like a locomotive crane for handling material, note the long, non solid  boom. This may have been all that was available at the time, but still..........

I operated cranes like this at my brief tenure on the C&NW  Proviso, Il. in the 70's.  Never tried to lift a car.    Bill W


Re: Unusual trucks on gon in American Smelting photo

Tony Thompson
 

Garth Groff  wrote:
Somewhere there is a close-up photo of these UP gondolas being loaded at a coal tipple. I seem to remember that Richard Hendrickson posted it back on the old Yahoo group. Does it jar any memories?

    Garth, do you mean the photos of both SP and UP gondolas being loaded with ballast at Black Butte, California? It includes UP 25218, built in 1903 with the Standard Steel Car Co. version of the Fox-like trucks. It is included in my Volume 1 on gondolas in the series _Southern Pacific Freight Cars_ on page 73.  On page 69 of that volume are two Standard Steel builder photos of such UP gondolas, from Keith Retterer.

Tony Thompson




Re: Unusual trucks on gon in American Smelting photo

Dennis Storzek
 

On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 11:02 AM, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford wrote:
Somewhere there is a close-up photo of these UP gondolas being loaded at a coal tipple. I seem to remember that Richard Hendrickson posted it back on the old Yahoo group. Does it jar any memories?
 
If it is the same car, I believe these were 46' IL with drop bottoms, and were intended for coal service.
 
Do you have any idea who built those cars? Somewhere deep in the recesses of my memory (or what's left of it) I recall that Barney & Smith had a fabricated plate passenger car truck, that from the side looked like a section of fabricated I beam with journal boxes poking through slots. B&S also built freight cars. What I can't recall is if they also tried a freight version, but if so, this is pretty much what it would look like. Unfortunately, there is only one book on Barney & Smith, and I don't own it; I read a borrowed copy.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Pacific Car & Foundry 1959 Annual Report - Photos

Doug Paasch
 

Hey, that's neat.  A nice memento for me as I had two uncles on my mom's side that built railroad freight cars in Renton back then.  Thanks for the posting.

Doug Paasch


On Apr 14, 2020 10:49 AM, "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Pacific Car & Foundry 1959 Annual Report - Photos

Photos and notes from University of Washington's Digital Archives:

1959 - Southern Pacific & Western Pacific Boxcars

https://digitalcollections.lib.washington.edu/digital/collection/reports/id/4051/rec/5

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Striker Castings

George Eichelberger
 

Brian:

Your project sound interesting!

Although there are many drawings of striker castings in the SRHA archives, they typically only show a casting number, not a patent or vendor. The Southern cast many parts at its Lenore Car Co. foundry in Lenore, TN. I expect many were copies of carbuilder designs or designed by Lenore or the railroad. Producing parts at Lenore and sending them to the carbuilders to be used in new car construction was common so even knowing who built a particular series of cars does not tell us who the component suppliers were.

In any case, here is a Google Drive link for Southern drawing SF-3421:


It is a 31M .tiff file (too large) to attach here. You should be able to read all of the measurements if you want to try to use this design.

Good luck and let us see how this looks in proto:48>

Ike


Re: Unusual trucks on gon in American Smelting photo

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Friends,

Somewhere there is a close-up photo of these UP gondolas being loaded at a coal tipple. I seem to remember that Richard Hendrickson posted it back on the old Yahoo group. Does it jar any memories?

If it is the same car, I believe these were 46' IL with drop bottoms, and were intended for coal service.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆



On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 1:21 PM spsalso via groups.io <Edwardsutorik=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Scaling from the photo, I get a wheelbase of 6'-9".  Like I said, seems pretty long for a freight car.

I think built-up arch bar trucks were outlawed in interchange between 1938 and 1941.

It could be argued that this car, which I take to be UP, is on home road tracks, and not interchanging.  Possible.  But the train itself does appear to be otherwise made up of cars that would interchange.  The load looks like scrap, likely steel.  If it stayed on home rails, where would the scrap be delivered?

Nevertheless, the trucks are under the car.  It's carrying a load.  It doesn't look like it's in MOW service.

And the trucks are interesting.

TWO interesting cars in one train in one picture.  Neat.  Might be more.


Ed

Edward Sutorik




Photo: Milwaukee Road Silk Train

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Milwaukee Road Silk Train

A 1921 Photo from the University of Washington:

https://digitalcollections.lib.washington.edu/digital/collection/imlsmohai/id/5538/rec/215

Caption: "By the end of the 1920s, the single most valuable import coming through Seattle was Japanese silk. This luxury material came to Seattle on fast steamships and was sent by express train to eastern markets. Because it was both expensive and perishable, silk needed to be handled very carefully. One train carried a cargo of silk valued at $5 million."

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

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