Date   

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Less Than Carload Shipments

Tim O'Connor
 


According to this web site, the Pacific Electric ceased all RAIL LCL in 1952,
and transferred the service to trucks (e.g. Pacific Motor Transport). Someone
here mentioned using LCL rather late, it taking a month to cross the country,
and suspecting it was all done by truck. That sounds right to me. The SP embraced
intermodal by the early 1950's and Overnight trains had lots of piggyback trailers
even before the end of steam operations.

http://www.elserenohistoricalsociety.org/P___E_RR.php

Tim O'Connor



On 8/7/2019 3:13 PM, C J Wyatt wrote:
If something was completely hopeless, you could get a favorable ICC decision. With LCL, I think that happened long before the Staggers Act. I never came across any railroad operated LCL operations in the seventies during my railroad career.

Jack Wyatt


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Less Than Carload Shipments

C J Wyatt
 

If something was completely hopeless, you could get a favorable ICC decision. With LCL, I think that happened long before the Staggers Act. I never came across any railroad operated LCL operations in the seventies during my railroad career.

Jack Wyatt

On Wednesday, August 7, 2019, 12:44:14 PM EDT, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



Mike, I don't think Dennis meant it died instantly. It was a slow death. ;-)

As Dennis noted, and I think he may be right, railroads could not opt out without
cause until after the Staggers Act took effect. (It took years to be fully in effect.)

Tim O'



On 8/6/2019 1:28 PM, Schleigh Mike via Groups.Io wrote:

Hello Dennis & Group!

Down below, Dennis S says the following--
        "The traditional operation, where the local freight had an LCL car that delivered to each station as it worked down the line, died with the end of WWII."

Respectfully, I must submit, this is simply wrong.

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: WP Dispatch Service [was Less Than Carload Shipments]

Rod Miller
 

Protocraft makes the WP Dispatch lettering in O scale:

https://protocraft.com/category.cfm?ItemID=252&;Categoryid=20&This_Sub_Sub_Category=WP

--
Rod Miller
Handcraftsman
===
Custom 2-rail O Scale Models: Drives,
Repairs, Steam Loco Building, More
http://www.rodmiller.com


Re: Atlas HO Meat Reefer Reservations

Bill Welch
 

Thanks Doug, the is an Armour truss rod I want to do.

Bill Welch


Re: Trouble shooting a freight car

Marty McGuirk
 

I bought two of these cars - one of them had a loose weight.
Jared, is the weight secured inside the car?

Marty

On Aug 6, 2019, at 4:56 PM, Bruce A. Metcalf <brmetcalf@comcast.net> wrote:

On 8/5/19 10:15 PM, Jared Harper wrote:

At the Collinsville RPM meet I "won" a Rapido NP Pre-War USRA DS box car. It is a beautiful model except for one thing, it lists to one side. I am not so great at troubleshooting freight car problems. Do any of you have a suggestion as to how I should correct this list.?
In my experience, this is usually caused by the weight being tilted up against one side of the car instead of on the floor.

Second place I'd look would be the body not sitting level on the floor.

I suppose both trucks could be mashed, but that seems unlikely.

Or you could just send it to me and get rid of your problem that way! <G>

Cheers,
/ Bruce /



Re: Atlas HO Meat Reefer Reservations

Douglas Harding
 

Also be aware that some underframes came with truss rods, some did not. The metal casting the was the same, complete with holes for truss rods in the cars that did not have truss rods.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Welch
Sent: Wednesday, August 7, 2019 6:33 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Atlas HO Meat Reefer Reservations

 

Among the several items Atlas is taking reservations for are their three styles of meat reefers: https://mycaboose.com/new-releases/atlas-ho-rolling-stock-summer-advanced-reservations?mc_cid=e5cbde1b3e&mc_eid=fef507ff99&page=1&utm_campaign=e5cbde1b3e-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_03_09_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Caboose+Newsletter&utm_term=0_907397b93c-e5cbde1b3e-100264421
I am going to reserve one or two of the Truss Rod types:  Part #150-20001680

I was unaware they had two different styles or types w/o Truss Rods:

—36' Wood Refrigerator Car Undecorated Body Style 1 Part #150-20001678
36' Wood Refrigerator Car Undecorated Body Style 2 Part #150-20001679

Can anyone please tell me what the difference is between these two Part Numbers?

Bill Welch

 


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Less Than Carload Shipments

Tim O'Connor
 


Mike, I don't think Dennis meant it died instantly. It was a slow death. ;-)

As Dennis noted, and I think he may be right, railroads could not opt out without
cause until after the Staggers Act took effect. (It took years to be fully in effect.)

Tim O'



On 8/6/2019 1:28 PM, Schleigh Mike via Groups.Io wrote:
Hello Dennis & Group!

Down below, Dennis S says the following--
        "The traditional operation, where the local freight had an LCL car that delivered to each station as it worked down the line, died with the end of WWII."

Respectfully, I must submit, this is simply wrong.

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: WP Dispatch Service [was Less Than Carload Shipments]

dave w
 

Garth
Great story and information from both historical and as example of operations (suitable for modelling) .
Who said the railroads were inflexible?
regards
davew


Re: Trouble shooting a freight car

Bruce A. Metcalf <brmetcalf@...>
 

On 8/5/19 10:15 PM, Jared Harper wrote:

At the Collinsville RPM meet I "won" a Rapido NP Pre-War USRA DS box car.  It is a beautiful model except for one thing, it lists to one side.  I am not so great at troubleshooting freight car problems.  Do any of you have a suggestion as to how I should correct this list.?
In my experience, this is usually caused by the weight being tilted up against one side of the car instead of on the floor.

Second place I'd look would be the body not sitting level on the floor.

I suppose both trucks could be mashed, but that seems unlikely.

Or you could just send it to me and get rid of your problem that way! <G>

Cheers,
/ Bruce /


Re: Metal Wheels

Tim O'Connor
 


TICHY sells nylon journal bearing inserts that will allow
you to use much shorter axles. You drill/ream the sideframe
to take the insert. They work great with old brass trucks with
straight (not tapered) journals.

Tim O'Connor



On 8/7/2019 7:47 AM, Mark Stamm wrote:
The NMRA practice is what has me in a pickle. I have tons of Bowser H21 hoppers; my primary interest is the PRR. Those plastic wheels have to go and to my knowledge only Reboxx makes replacement sets in the 1.035 length. Any other wheel set I have tried has to much slop side to side. 

Mark P Stamm

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Metal Wheels

Dennis Storzek
 

On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 07:19 AM, Alexander Schneider Jr wrote:
...between the two Accurail designs of 1.010" and 1.025” would be a good “preferred” value. Lifelike seems to be the dominant replacement wheel at 1.015”.
I should correct one misconception that has crept in here... the Accurail truck tool was initially designed to accommodate our molded plastic wheels, and required metal replacement wheels with axles no longer than 1.005". As revised, it will accommodate axles up to 1.015".

I don't doubt that Doc Denny has found an Accurail truck that will accept an axle 1.025' long, but it's an outlier. All three Accurail trucks use the exact same inner mechanics to form the bearing cones, and I mean EXACTLY the same parts; only the side actions that have the sideframe detail are changed out. That's not to say that the varying thickness of the sideframes doesn't cause slightly different shrinkage, and polyacetal is a high shrink polymer, but those differences are going to get lost in the gradual change of the cavity dimensions as the movable parts that form the cones wear between maintenance cycles. If we have a crash (it happens) that damages one of those sliding parts (called lifters in the injection molding trade, although the name is a misnomer) replacing one will change the dimensions of that axle spot only, until the tool is completely re-worked during periodic maintenance.

Dennis Storzek
Accurail, Inc.


Re: Metal Wheels

Dennis Storzek
 

Hmmm, the groups.io froze and wouldn't allow me to finish the last message. I'm curious about the Bowser axles. If the axles are usable, and the axles are a common diameter, either 3/32 (,09375) or 2 mm (.0787) it should be possible to press the wheels off the axles and press metal wheels on. I'd look for donor wheelsets that are double insulated, because it is considerably easier to press wheels with plastic bushings off and on.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Metal Wheels

Dennis Storzek
 

On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 07:19 AM, Alexander Schneider Jr wrote:
It should be noted that NMRA RP 24.3, "Axles", specifies only the MAXIMUM length, which is 1.035".
This is true, and I am aware of it. The problem with how the NMRA Standards and R.P.s are written is while they typically give limits, they give absolutely no guidance as to what the preferred length might be. With no guidance and little or no experience in the hobby, the mold designer will typically pick a value close to the specified limit, only allowing a reasonable manufacturing tolerance so as to ensure they don't exceed the limit... such as 1.032 +/- .002" should keep us safe. That totally misses the point that if .990" would have been a better length, then the axles should have been .990.

It's a shame that the gentleman who wants to re-wheel the Bowser cars didn't look into it a couple of years ago, because NWSL used to be able to provide custom length axles for a reasonable extra set-up charge. Now that NWSL is closing, that source is gone.


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Less Than Carload Shipments

Randy Hammill
 

Like so many things, the timeframe varied on different roads. For example, the Steam Era ended on the New Haven in 1952.

I know in the era I’m modeling (1946-54) the NH still handles a lot of LCL traffic. The “peddler” or “way” car is long since gone, and many of the smaller freight houses are served by truck (by the NH using NETCo trucks). This is all documented in their twice-annual publication of Package Car Schedules.

Most of the stations that are open are routed directly to regular service points; Chicago, Enola, Philadelphia Transfer, etc, but a few are consolidated at Cedar Hill before shipping offline. I believe that it is primarily the truck traffic that is consolidated there.

Having said that, there are some intraline transfers. New Britain was a large freight house, and in some years it is noted that LCL for Middletown is routed through New Britain, which is obviously consolidated at the freight house, and it is routed by train - on a local to Hartford, then a local to Middletown the next day. Undoubtedly there are other locations that do the same.

I also have a book of freight bills from the O&W that is all the inbound and outbound traffic handled at Norwich, NY in July ‘52. It’s a mix of LCL cars handled at the freight house, and LCL from local industries (although I haven’t verified if they have local sidings), and those cars have up to a dozen or more destinations, sometimes on several roads. I don’t see any that seem to be traveling down one line, freight house to freight house, but I wouldn’t expect that to come from a foreign road anyway. But clearly they are loaded for local destinations. For example, NYC 159515 was loaded on 7/28/52 with the following destinations:

Baltic OH (NYCStL); Yorktown Heights NY (NYC-E); Great Valley NY (B&O); Amenia NY (NYC-E); Corfu NY (NYC-E); Warsaw NY (B&O); Brockport NY (NYC-E) (2 different industries); and Conajaharie NY (NYC-WS).

Pretty much every day there are a couple cars loaded from a couple industries in this way.

That’s the order of the bills in the book, I haven’t plotted a route (the route to each destination is noted, though). I suspect that majority of these deliveries would be to a local freight house, but I also haven’t verified the existence of an open freight house in the matching Open and Prepay Station List for that year.

If one of the destinations in 1952 was Rocky Hill CT, and it was an industry without their own siding, then it would be unloaded at the Hartford freight house and trucked to Rocky Hill.

Randy
 --

Randy Hammill
Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954  | https//:newbritainstation.com


Re: Atlas HO Meat Reefer Reservations

Bill Welch
 

Thank you Ray.

Bill Welch


Re: Metal Wheels

Alexander Schneider Jr
 

It should be noted that NMRA RP 24.3, "Axles", specifies only the MAXIMUM length, which is 1.035". They also illustrate Type I axles, with the cone ends we commonly see, and Type II with square ends, which I vaguely remember on a Bachmann tender. (Off topic)

 

This document was last revised in 1982. It seems like a proposal to update it would be timely, and something between the two Accurail designs of 1.010" and 1.025” would be a good “preferred” value. Lifelike seems to be the dominant replacement wheel at 1.015”. Given Bowser’s use of the above maximum, and European use of 0.990”, those might be the minimum and maximum values. The revision ought to suggest a maximum value for the difference between the truck and the axle; clearly using 1.015” wheelsets in a Bowser truck doesn’t work very well. The minimum value is, of course, zero.

 

Has anyone measured Central Valley trucks to determine what wheel set would be a good replacement? The need to replacement of wheel sets on those is driven by wheel shape, not getting rid of plastic. I realize there were many different styles and the values may vary, and of course passenger and freight used different wheel sizes.

 

Alex Schneider

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2019 5:25 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Metal Wheels

 

On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 01:33 PM, Denny Anspach wrote:

Probably the most ubiquitous trucks used in the RPM freight car modeling community are the Accurail “Bettendorf".  Their consistent and reliable maximum rollability/minimum end play axle length choices have varied slightly among molding numbers 1-4, the most common being 1.010”, with 1.025” occasionally.  Their superb Andrews trucks benefit consistently with 1.025” axles.  

 

Doc,
I've been finding this whole discussion amusing. The move to shorter axle lengths isn't because of "CAD design" whatever that is, but simply the result of paying attention to the actual prototype dimensions. When Athearn tooled their plastic trucks decades ago, they adopted the 1.035" axle length because that was NMRA recommended practice, and the overall width of the truck came out to whatever it came out to. Red Caboose did something similar years later when they made a truck with the full profile of the journal boxes on the back of the sideframe... only problem was that forced the overall width of the truck to be overly wide, to the point that the journals stick out from under older prototype cars.

When I designed the Accurail truck mold, close to thirty years ago now, I tried to keep the overall width of the trucks to scale... and had all sorts of complaints that the common replacement wheels of the day wouldn't fit, so I jumped through some hoops to squeeze a few more thousandths of depth into the scale size journal boxes. Now I'm seeing  a general trend toward an axle length that would have fit the original design well. I'm sure this is driven by the desire to make the trucks scale width, and that is good, but the width of the trucks is one of those things that NOBODY was thinking of in years past.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Photo: PRR Boxcar 26705

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Claus and friends,

Did anyone notice the globe of a gas pump near the center? I'm no gas pump expert, but it looks like 1920s type, which is in line with the date someone else offered.

Somebody remarked that this couldn't be a coal trestle, and I will allow there are other possibilities. Covered coal trestles of this type were quite common in New England due to the heavy snow.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 8/6/19 6:45 PM, Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) wrote:

Hi Bob, Garth, and List members,
 
Notice in the first image linked below (image number 7385), that there is both a derail and a chock or barrier of some sort to prevent the boxcar from rolling and fouling the main line.
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2019 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: PRR Boxcar 26705

Bob,

The "covered structure" is likely a dump trestle for domestic heating coal, something a lot of lumber dealers also sold. I recently photographed a similar uncovered structure at the Montpelier mansion near Orange, Virginia. The coal trestle is still there with its rails intact (and also a private freight shed). Because the spur was privately owned, they track was left intact when the Southern Railroad removed the switch many years ago.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 8/5/19 4:04 PM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io wrote:

Photo: PRR Boxcar 26705

Old but undated photo:

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-08-03-19/X7385.jpg

The industry on the spur is interesting:

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-08-03-19/X7383.jpg

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-08-03-19/X7382.jpg

Perhaps a construction supplies business? I also see railroad ties along with lumber and pipe. The spur leads into a covered structure, purpose unknown.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA




Re: Metal Wheels

Mark Stamm
 

The NMRA practice is what has me in a pickle. I have tons of Bowser H21 hoppers; my primary interest is the PRR. Those plastic wheels have to go and to my knowledge only Reboxx makes replacement sets in the 1.035 length. Any other wheel set I have tried has to much slop side to side.

Mark P Stamm
Mark at Euphoriatt dot Com

Sent from my mobile device


Re: Atlas HO Meat Reefer Reservations

Ray Breyer
 

Side ladders versus side grabs.

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


On Wednesday, August 7, 2019, 06:33:12 AM CDT, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:


Among the several items Atlas is taking reservations for are their three styles of meat reefers: https://mycaboose.com/new-releases/atlas-ho-rolling-stock-summer-advanced-reservations?mc_cid=e5cbde1b3e&mc_eid=fef507ff99&page=1&utm_campaign=e5cbde1b3e-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_03_09_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Caboose+Newsletter&utm_term=0_907397b93c-e5cbde1b3e-100264421
I am going to reserve one or two of the Truss Rod types:  Part #150-20001680

I was unaware they had two different styles or types w/o Truss Rods:
—36' Wood Refrigerator Car Undecorated Body Style 1 Part #150-20001678
36' Wood Refrigerator Car Undecorated Body Style 2 Part #150-20001679

Can anyone please tell me what the difference is between these two Part Numbers?

Bill Welch


Atlas HO Meat Reefer Reservations

Bill Welch
 

Among the several items Atlas is taking reservations for are their three styles of meat reefers: https://mycaboose.com/new-releases/atlas-ho-rolling-stock-summer-advanced-reservations?mc_cid=e5cbde1b3e&mc_eid=fef507ff99&page=1&utm_campaign=e5cbde1b3e-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_03_09_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Caboose+Newsletter&utm_term=0_907397b93c-e5cbde1b3e-100264421
I am going to reserve one or two of the Truss Rod types:  Part #150-20001680

I was unaware they had two different styles or types w/o Truss Rods:
—36' Wood Refrigerator Car Undecorated Body Style 1 Part #150-20001678
36' Wood Refrigerator Car Undecorated Body Style 2 Part #150-20001679

Can anyone please tell me what the difference is between these two Part Numbers?

Bill Welch

14961 - 14980 of 181027