Date   

Re: (Not A Freight Car) Slanted Loading Dock

Jack Mullen
 

On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 08:45 AM, Bob Chaparro wrote:
Actually, there is at least one other photo of a completely different scene
I don't know what photo you think is different, but it appears that all photos in this set are views of the same group of buildings, in back of the roundhouse. Identifiable buildings appear in multiple pictures.
Jack Mullen


Re: (Not A Freight Car) Slanted Loading Dock

Dennis Storzek
 

On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 10:15 AM, Donald B. Valentine wrote:
From a second look I think you are right about only two truss rods on the DL&W boxcar,
I disagree, I think iy is a four truss rod car, and we can only see the near side rods. The inner rods are quite close to the center sills, as evidenced by the placement of their terminating nuts on the striker casting, and therefore are quite far from the outer rods. If uou look carefully under the car you can see the brake cylinder on the near side of the center sills, and the queenpost on the inner truss rod is quite close behind the brake rod that that runs to the lever on the near end of the brake cylinder. We can only see halfway under the car.

I also don't think the car has a steel centersill. If the car had been improved with steel sills, they would have included the draft sills, indeed one common improvement before the advent of steel center sills was steel replacement draft sills, as the draft sills tended to be the weakest part of the underframe. The construction visible at the end of the car still clearly has wood sills; the ends show, bolted below that cast striker, with the drawbar carry iron bolted to the bottom of the sills.

That end is a proprietary item, shown in the 1922 CBC. Given that there is no initials above the number, I bet the CBC illustration of of a DL&W car.


Dennis Storzek


Re: WAG CARS [WAS GATC Type 17]

Schleigh Mike
 

B&O O-41 No. 350370 is restored at the West Virginia Railroad Museum at Elkins.  Work was completed about 9.5 years ago.

Regards----Mike Schleigh at Grove City, Penna.

On Wednesday, May 29, 2019, 2:36:34 PM EDT, Richard Townsend via Groups.Io <richtownsend@...> wrote:


Do you happen to know which railroad museum in WVA it is?

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


Re: WAG CARS [WAS GATC Type 17]

Richard Townsend
 

Do you happen to know which railroad museum in WVA it is?

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


Re: WAG CARS [WAS GATC Type 17]

Schleigh Mike
 

O-41 gondolas B&O series 350000-350999 were built in the period 1931 to 1935.  I do not know the builder(s) but that is surely available from the usual sources.  One car exists, restored, in a museum down in West Virginia.  It is a model the hobby has not seen.

Mike Schleigh  Grove City, Penna.

On Wednesday, May 29, 2019, 2:01:26 PM EDT, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



Any ideas of who built the 3202? The series 3200-3206 cars had 12 ribs, and 50-6 interior length.

Tim O'Connor





Friends,

I can't say when tank cars 200-202 came to the WAG, but they are listed in my 1958 ORER.  The WAG began operations in either 1954 or 1956 (confusingly Wikipedia offers both dates), so this is a pretty tight window for us.


A single 52' mill gondola is listed as 3000, a 140,000 lb car at 1745 cu ft and with an overall length of 55' 7" (Duryea underframe), which matches two series of ex-B&O cars (259000-260449, previously covered by Tangent, and 260500-263229, their current offering). Henry Maywald's CLASSIC FREIGHT CARS V. 6 has a photo of 3005 on page 48, which gives a build date of 1937. The new Tangent cars are very nice, but in WAG lettering are apparently too late for our period of interest without a number change to 3000.
Also listed is 3100, a 100,000 lb 50' car at 1523 cu ft with a more common overall length of 52' 7'.

Also present are "steel underframe" boxcars 4100-4103, followed 5001-5074 marked as a new addition in my book.

Here is my one souvenir of the WAG, a car I shot in Roseville around 1968. The 60XX series is not shown in my ORER.


Yours Aye,

Garth Groff

Partial shot of WAG 200
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RR-Print-Wellsville-Addison-amp-Galeton-WAG-5009-at-Galeton-Pa-6-4-1960-/123759474555?hash=item1cd0a3b77b%3Ag%3AFPQAAOSw94hc0aWp&nma=true&si=jM4eChH7Do6CPgEAYYSAj931zhg%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Dan Smith


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: (Not A Freight Car) Slanted Loading Dock

Dave Parker
 

If I were at home, I could look at my December, 1935, ORER and tell you which of the DL&W truss-rod shorties survived the 1934 purge of WUF cars.  For example, none of the B&M cars survived, but some roads did invest in UF reinforcements to extend car life.

I think consulting a later Register, say 1945 or so, yields an ambiguous answer, as shorties in general were scrapped in such large numbers in and around the WWII years.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA


Re: WAG CARS [WAS GATC Type 17]

Tim O'Connor
 


Any ideas of who built the 3202? The series 3200-3206 cars had 12 ribs, and 50-6 interior length.

Tim O'Connor





Friends,

I can't say when tank cars 200-202 came to the WAG, but they are listed in my 1958 ORER.  The WAG began operations in either 1954 or 1956 (confusingly Wikipedia offers both dates), so this is a pretty tight window for us.


A single 52' mill gondola is listed as 3000, a 140,000 lb car at 1745 cu ft and with an overall length of 55' 7" (Duryea underframe), which matches two series of ex-B&O cars (259000-260449, previously covered by Tangent, and 260500-263229, their current offering). Henry Maywald's CLASSIC FREIGHT CARS V. 6 has a photo of 3005 on page 48, which gives a build date of 1937. The new Tangent cars are very nice, but in WAG lettering are apparently too late for our period of interest without a number change to 3000.
Also listed is 3100, a 100,000 lb 50' car at 1523 cu ft with a more common overall length of 52' 7'.

Also present are "steel underframe" boxcars 4100-4103, followed 5001-5074 marked as a new addition in my book.

Here is my one souvenir of the WAG, a car I shot in Roseville around 1968. The 60XX series is not shown in my ORER.


Yours Aye,

Garth Groff

Partial shot of WAG 200
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RR-Print-Wellsville-Addison-amp-Galeton-WAG-5009-at-Galeton-Pa-6-4-1960-/123759474555?hash=item1cd0a3b77b%3Ag%3AFPQAAOSw94hc0aWp&nma=true&si=jM4eChH7Do6CPgEAYYSAj931zhg%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Dan Smith


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: GATC Type 17

Tim O'Connor
 

The 5009 later received full lettering, wiping out the B&M's lettering.

--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Re: (Not A Freight Car) Slanted Loading Dock

Donald B. Valentine
 

     From a second look I think you are right about only two truss rods on the DL&W boxcar, Eric.
Your version of the photo shows the underbody details a bit better and tells me that part of what I
Thought earlier was the continuation of the board "locking" the turnbuckles in place was actually the
closer part of the further truss rod after the board has passed through it's turnbuckle. But you suggest
the possibility of the car not having a steel underframe. If that is the case could it be that two more rods
of the same size were simply run the length of the car just to hold it together longitudaly? Look at the
casting that forms the upper part of the coupler pocket, please. The two nuts at its outer extremities
appear to be the same size as those on the truss rod ends. What else could they be doing if not holding
the entire length of the car together? A neat car, anyway you view it!

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: (Not A Freight Car) Slanted Loading Dock

Tim O'Connor
 


The dock to the RIGHT in the photo is clearly a ramp going off to the right - you can see the
horizontal floor lines do not line up. The area in front of the car is slightly sloped rather than flat.
A slope is a easier for loading cars and it also sheds spilled liquids and water onto the tracks.

Tim O'


On 5/28/2019 7:08 PM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io wrote:

I noticed the loading dock in this photo (which does feature a freight car) has a pronounced slant:

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-05-26-19/X6991.jpg

This is the first slanted loading dock I've seen. Is such a design highly unusual or just not so common?

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Photo: Delivering A 1957 Chevy

Tim O'Connor
 


1971 photo but still in original paint


On 5/28/2019 4:19 PM, Schleigh Mike via Groups.Io wrote:
Model Railroader, in their September 1958 issue, presented an article on scratch building these unique cars.

Regards from Mike Schleigh in Grove City, Penna., in the middle of heavy weather.

On Monday, May 27, 2019, 9:50:13 PM EDT, Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:


Bob Chaparro wrote:
"Photo: Delivering A 1957 Chevy
End door boxcar:
https://66.media.tumblr.com/c3b25a8a106e913adac4a0061d1acb77/tumblr_n7jd1n0aG81qcdxvpo1_1280.jpg 

Actually enclosed bi-level auto racks. These cars lacked side doors.  Sylvan once offered resin models of these early CN cars in HO scale.  CN later lengthened the design to 75 ft, and these cars were acquired by Auto-Train Corporation, later going to Amtrak.


Ben Hom
_._,_._,_

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: (Not A Freight Car) Slanted Loading Dock

Bob Chaparro
 

On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 07:15 AM, Eric Hansmann wrote:
...the negative is markedthe negative is marked "Site of inspection shed DL&W electrification at Hoboken."

Actually, there is at least one other photo of a completely different scene that is marked the negative is marked "Site of inspection shed DL&W electrification at Hoboken." Maybe it's a company facility, maybe not.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: (Not A Freight Car) Slanted Loading Dock

prgm_mgr
 

Almost looks like a shed that was converted to a dock. 
Interesting details on car end and trucks too.
Mark Kraus


Re: (Not A Freight Car) Slanted Loading Dock

Eric Hansmann
 

DL&W 31830 is among the 31000-33999 series listed in the October 1926 ORER. These were 30-ton capacity cars with 1,806 cars in service. In the historic Lackawanna photo, we can see two truss rods attached to the end sills.

I'm not entirely certain if these cars have a steel centersill or underframe. The ORER listing is inconclusive as there are no ditto marks to continue the Steel Underframe note through several 30-ton capacity boxcar series. The ditto appears under Box on an earlier entry but not Steel Underframe.

The car ends are interesting and make these shortys stand out but I've seen few of them off line. Based upon the light rating and possibly lack of a steel centersill, I think these boxcars may have been used for LCL and Company service during the 1920s on the Lackawanna. The car is sitting at a company facility as the negative is marked "Site of inspection shed DL&W electrification at Hoboken."

http://lists.railfan.net/erielack-photo/erielack-05-26-19/X6991.jpg

 

FYI, there are 6,837 30-ton capacity boxcars in adjacent car series that are listed as Box in the 1926 ORER. The data offers no clear indication of a steel underframe. Many other DL&W listings are marked as Box, Steel Underframe, including quite a few more 30-ton cars.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2019 6:33 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] (Not A Freight Car) Slanted Loading Dock

 

     The slight slope on that dock makes perfect sense to me, Bob. Most docks I have seen were

wood and uncovered but if concrete is used and it is covered why not use a slight slope so that any

wind borne rain that blows in can drain easily. But the heck with the dock, LOOK at that neat DL&W

boxcar! Note not only the Carmer cut levers but the neat castings to prevent the nuts on the ends of

the truss rods from cutting into the wood. The two more central ones do not need these because they

come through the end of the casting forming the upper part of the coupler pocket and shared by the

ends of both. And once again look at the board through the turnbuckles to lock them in place and

keep them from losing tension from vibration as I pointed out in another such photo a year or two a

ago here. Wood ladder stiles, simple wrought iron rungs and note the cut out in the fascia for the

retainer. Just wish I could see the beam a little better that the queen posts are mountedon. What

a neat car! I'd love to see a Kadee quality version of this one and would quickly buy 4 or 5.

 

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: WAG CARS [WAS GATC Type 17]

Schleigh Mike
 

Modest clarification to item below----WAG 200-202 first appeared in the July 1956 ORER.

Mike Schleigh, still in Grove City, Penna.

On Wednesday, May 29, 2019, 9:25:47 AM EDT, Schleigh Mike <mike_schleigh@...> wrote:


Hello Garth!  And Group!

You put a lot out there, Garth.  Let me make a few points.

WAG 200-202 were the first and only ORER entries for the new RR which began operations on the first day of 1956.  They are the only entries in the January 1957 edition.  These cars have never been documented 'off-line' other than to visit the connecting C&PA.

The 1954 time is the incorporation date of the WAG Corp.

WAG 3000 was a B&O O-59 and the first of eight on the road.  (No O-59a cars but how do you tell the difference?)

WAG 3000 as the Tangent model is wholly appropriate for "our time" as it was on the road sometime before 1960, however not in the FCR of the model.  3000 was painted totally in the orange of the Salzberg roads and stenciled in black using a different style of lettering.  It was used in fleshing service.

WAG 3100 was similarly early on the road and painted orange.  It was one of the 1000 cars of B&O O-41 class.  About 1961 three more followed onto the WAG.

WAG 4100-4103 came to the road in 1957 and were on-the-road in August.  These were the only WAG cars painted in the cream yellow and tangerine orange of the Salzberg company that went off line.  The were used for merchandise service.  All four were the so-called B-2 class from the Rock Island, three from 1924, one from 1927 with the radial roof and Klassing hand brake.

WAG 5000 series cars are the former B&M XM-1 boxcars of 1929-1930.  The first of these arrived in the spring of 1958.  By the late 1960s, over 500 were on the road.  The 6000 series were the first to have running boards removed and "A" end ladders cut down, obviously after 'our time.'

Any more WAG questions?

Regards from Grove City, Penna.   Mike Schleigh

On Wednesday, May 29, 2019, 5:33:25 AM EDT, Garth Groff <sarahsan@...> wrote:


Friends,

I can't say when tank cars 200-202 came to the WAG, but they are listed in my 1958 ORER.  The WAG began operations in either 1954 or 1956 (confusingly Wikipedia offers both dates), so this is a pretty tight window for us.


A single 52' mill gondola is listed as 3000, a 140,000 lb car at 1745 cu ft and with an overall length of 55' 7" (Duryea underframe), which matches two series of ex-B&O cars (259000-260449, previously covered by Tangent, and 260500-263229, their current offering). Henry Maywald's CLASSIC FREIGHT CARS V. 6 has a photo of 3005 on page 48, which gives a build date of 1937. The new Tangent cars are very nice, but in WAG lettering are apparently too late for our period of interest without a number change to 3000.
Also listed is 3100, a 100,000 lb 50' car at 1523 cu ft with a more common overall length of 52' 7'.

Also present are "steel underframe" boxcars 4100-4103, followed 5001-5074 marked as a new addition in my book.

Here is my one souvenir of the WAG, a car I shot in Roseville around 1968. The 60XX series is not shown in my ORER.



Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 5/28/19 11:03 PM, Dan Smith wrote:


Re: GATC Type 17

Schleigh Mike
 

Thank you Dan!

For the photo of WAG 5009 at Galeton in 1960 with the partial of WAG 200.  (I own the original slide but prints from it were commercially sold in past years.)  WAG 202 was one of the 400 PTCCo tankers Sinclair bought in 1917.  Its number was SDRX 13812.  Oddly, WAG photos of it are typified by the one you posted, only partial views of the car.  The one full view I have is of the car second-back in the string.  "Dots'--four of them--on the dome were a WAG practice carry-over from Sinclair.

By the way WAG 5009 is the only WAG XM-1 I know of that served in hide service, albeit, after our time.

Regards from Grove City, Penna.   Mike Schleigh


Re: WAG CARS [WAS GATC Type 17]

Schleigh Mike
 

Hello Garth!  And Group!

You put a lot out there, Garth.  Let me make a few points.

WAG 200-202 were the first and only ORER entries for the new RR which began operations on the first day of 1956.  They are the only entries in the January 1957 edition.  These cars have never been documented 'off-line' other than to visit the connecting C&PA.

The 1954 time is the incorporation date of the WAG Corp.

WAG 3000 was a B&O O-59 and the first of eight on the road.  (No O-59a cars but how do you tell the difference?)

WAG 3000 as the Tangent model is wholly appropriate for "our time" as it was on the road sometime before 1960, however not in the FCR of the model.  3000 was painted totally in the orange of the Salzberg roads and stenciled in black using a different style of lettering.  It was used in fleshing service.

WAG 3100 was similarly early on the road and painted orange.  It was one of the 1000 cars of B&O O-41 class.  About 1961 three more followed onto the WAG.

WAG 4100-4103 came to the road in 1957 and were on-the-road in August.  These were the only WAG cars painted in the cream yellow and tangerine orange of the Salzberg company that went off line.  The were used for merchandise service.  All four were the so-called B-2 class from the Rock Island, three from 1924, one from 1927 with the radial roof and Klassing hand brake.

WAG 5000 series cars are the former B&M XM-1 boxcars of 1929-1930.  The first of these arrived in the spring of 1958.  By the late 1960s, over 500 were on the road.  The 6000 series were the first to have running boards removed and "A" end ladders cut down, obviously after 'our time.'

Any more WAG questions?

Regards from Grove City, Penna.   Mike Schleigh

On Wednesday, May 29, 2019, 5:33:25 AM EDT, Garth Groff <sarahsan@...> wrote:


Friends,

I can't say when tank cars 200-202 came to the WAG, but they are listed in my 1958 ORER.  The WAG began operations in either 1954 or 1956 (confusingly Wikipedia offers both dates), so this is a pretty tight window for us.


A single 52' mill gondola is listed as 3000, a 140,000 lb car at 1745 cu ft and with an overall length of 55' 7" (Duryea underframe), which matches two series of ex-B&O cars (259000-260449, previously covered by Tangent, and 260500-263229, their current offering). Henry Maywald's CLASSIC FREIGHT CARS V. 6 has a photo of 3005 on page 48, which gives a build date of 1937. The new Tangent cars are very nice, but in WAG lettering are apparently too late for our period of interest without a number change to 3000.
Also listed is 3100, a 100,000 lb 50' car at 1523 cu ft with a more common overall length of 52' 7'.

Also present are "steel underframe" boxcars 4100-4103, followed 5001-5074 marked as a new addition in my book.

Here is my one souvenir of the WAG, a car I shot in Roseville around 1968. The 60XX series is not shown in my ORER.



Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 5/28/19 11:03 PM, Dan Smith wrote:


Re: Removing car numbers on Walthers cars. (Super Clean Degreaser)

Nelson Moyer
 

Too long is a relative term. I soaked my Accurail hopper for five days to finally get all of the paint off. Other plastics may behave differently.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2019 1:56 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Removing car numbers on Walthers cars. (Super Clean Degreaser)

 

A couple of comments from the Model Railroads of Southern California website about Super Clean Degreaser.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

++++

Rick Watson: "Do not use this on brass models. It eats solder. Ask me how I know..."

Anton Bruce: "And if you soak plastic car bodies or other parts for too long...it will melt and/or warp THEM as well. And I speak from experience on that, too."


Re: (Not A Freight Car) Slanted Loading Dock

Donald B. Valentine
 

     The slight slope on that dock makes perfect sense to me, Bob. Most docks I have seen were
wood and uncovered but if concrete is used and it is covered why not use a slight slope so that any
wind borne rain that blows in can drain easily. But the heck with the dock, LOOK at that neat DL&W
boxcar! Note not only the Carmer cut levers but the neat castings to prevent the nuts on the ends of
the truss rods from cutting into the wood. The two more central ones do not need these because they
come through the end of the casting forming the upper part of the coupler pocket and shared by the
ends of both. And once again look at the board through the turnbuckles to lock them in place and
keep them from losing tension from vibration as I pointed out in another such photo a year or two a
ago here. Wood ladder stiles, simple wrought iron rungs and note the cut out in the fascia for the
retainer. Just wish I could see the beam a little better that the queen posts are mountedon. What
a neat car! I'd love to see a Kadee quality version of this one and would quickly buy 4 or 5.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: (Not A Freight Car) Slanted Loading Dock

Paul Doggett
 

Those were my thoughts also.

Paul Doggett.  England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 


On 29 May 2019, at 00:39, Patrick Wade <patwadesb@...> wrote:

My first thought is that it makes it easier to roll barrels and kegs onto freight cars. It would be interesting to see if there are any sort of guides on the deck to direct the barrels to the car door way. Bur I have never seen any other slanted docks.

Pat Wade
Santa Barbara, CA

On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 4:08 PM Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

I noticed the loading dock in this photo (which does feature a freight car) has a pronounced slant:

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-05-26-19/X6991.jpg

This is the first slanted loading dock I've seen. Is such a design highly unusual or just not so common?

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA