Date   

Re: Metal Wheels

spsalso
 

Re: NWSL wheelsets.

I have bought only one set (38" narrow tread).  They are dramatically out of gage.

To correct that, I am awaiting a "Puller" I ordered from them in March.  They have assured me I will get it.


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: Metal Wheels

Tony Thompson
 

Denny, my caliper consistently finds Kadee’s at 1.020 inches. Comment?
Tony Thompson 


On Aug 3, 2019, at 12:02 PM, Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...> wrote:

Model railroad trucks are not consistent precision assemblies, and if they were, we simply could not afford them. This makes a simple question like suitable wheel replacement not so simple. For a variety of inherent design, material choice, and molding reasons, truck frames vary considerably, even from the same manufacturer or from the same lot at the same time.  This can significantly influence the choice of axle lengths and other wheel set parameters when choosing replacements.  No two trucks are really the same.

Here are some of my observations and experiences with metal wheel replacements, presuming trucks with nominal NMRA cone shaped bearing holes, and axle-ends with nominal cone-shaped NMRA dimensions:

Wheelset axle length length, axle-end diameter, and axle end/truck bearing material dissimilarity will significantly influence rolling success in any given truck.

Alone, axles roll the best when axles and bearings are of dissimilar materials. i.e. plastic axles within metal bearings, and metal axles  in plastic bearings. This is borne out in every day experience.

Alone, wheels roll the very best when the least end play is balanced to the optimal axle length, and  is tailor-fitted and matched to each individual truck type (even better to each individual truck). It is extremely common for a variety of high quality trucks to optimally roll only with respective wheel sets of varying axle lengths from 0.900” to 1.020”.  It is also common that the greatest rollability will not always  coincide with the least end play, and a compromise must be reached. 

Alone, wheel sets with two (2) millimeter axle ends seem to be consistently superior to those of fatter thickness.

Clean axle ends free of metal curls remaining from machining (usually not seen, but felt by finger pads) roll significantly better.  

In the current quality wheel set replacement  mass market (as writ in our small hobby), Kadee and Intermountain have dominated, and they have earned it with persistent high quality assurance (Kadee a bit higher than Intermountain in this regard). NWSL has had an important quality niche, not to ignore the late great Reboxx (my personal go-to for almost 15 years). I never ever personally discovered an out-of-gauge wheel set among any of them.  

I love the Kadees for their appearance and for their stellar quality and predictable and precise 1.015” axle length.  They work the very best in Kadee's own trucks, but can suffer variably because the plastic and slightly curved conical ends separately or alone will not always play well within plastic bearing holes, not to mention  cones of different shapes trying to fit and roll well one within the other. 

The Intermountain axle lengths have varied over the past few years, drifting from 1.012” down to 1.005 or 6 the last ones that I purchased and measured.  I cannot comment on those produced by their current supply source (reportedly different from their previous failed contractor). The different lengths, small as they are in reality, can make a real difference in any individual application.

Their are other new metal wheel suppliers that I have not tried, primarily because I have yet had no need; or because (irritatingly) the axle lengths are unknown.

When doing mass replacements, a lot of the above may be far too fussy, but they can perhaps serve as a guide.  Doug Harding’s suggestions as to Intermountain wheel sets would  be a good place to start.  

P.S. Lastly, although it has been heavily promoted over the years, and on occasion I have found it very useful, generally I have otherwise found cause for routinely using a reaming tool to improve observable rollability.  

Denny

  




Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, CA 95864




Re: Gondolas converted into TOFC cars

rwitt_2000
 

Nice photo Tim. Those B&O TOFCEE service "flat cars" were made by rebuilding the relatively new "1955" underframes from the M-15 wagon-tops.  They did configurations for TOFC and COFC.

Bob Witt


Re: Metal Wheels

Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...>
 

Model railroad trucks are not consistent precision assemblies, and if they were, we simply could not afford them. This makes a simple question like suitable wheel replacement not so simple. For a variety of inherent design, material choice, and molding reasons, truck frames vary considerably, even from the same manufacturer or from the same lot at the same time.  This can significantly influence the choice of axle lengths and other wheel set parameters when choosing replacements.  No two trucks are really the same.

Here are some of my observations and experiences with metal wheel replacements, presuming trucks with nominal NMRA cone shaped bearing holes, and axle-ends with nominal cone-shaped NMRA dimensions:

Wheelset axle length length, axle-end diameter, and axle end/truck bearing material dissimilarity will significantly influence rolling success in any given truck.

Alone, axles roll the best when axles and bearings are of dissimilar materials. i.e. plastic axles within metal bearings, and metal axles  in plastic bearings. This is borne out in every day experience.

Alone, wheels roll the very best when the least end play is balanced to the optimal axle length, and  is tailor-fitted and matched to each individual truck type (even better to each individual truck). It is extremely common for a variety of high quality trucks to optimally roll only with respective wheel sets of varying axle lengths from 0.900” to 1.020”.  It is also common that the greatest rollability will not always  coincide with the least end play, and a compromise must be reached. 

Alone, wheel sets with two (2) millimeter axle ends seem to be consistently superior to those of fatter thickness.

Clean axle ends free of metal curls remaining from machining (usually not seen, but felt by finger pads) roll significantly better.  

In the current quality wheel set replacement  mass market (as writ in our small hobby), Kadee and Intermountain have dominated, and they have earned it with persistent high quality assurance (Kadee a bit higher than Intermountain in this regard). NWSL has had an important quality niche, not to ignore the late great Reboxx (my personal go-to for almost 15 years). I never ever personally discovered an out-of-gauge wheel set among any of them.  

I love the Kadees for their appearance and for their stellar quality and predictable and precise 1.015” axle length.  They work the very best in Kadee's own trucks, but can suffer variably because the plastic and slightly curved conical ends separately or alone will not always play well within plastic bearing holes, not to mention  cones of different shapes trying to fit and roll well one within the other. 

The Intermountain axle lengths have varied over the past few years, drifting from 1.012” down to 1.005 or 6 the last ones that I purchased and measured.  I cannot comment on those produced by their current supply source (reportedly different from their previous failed contractor). The different lengths, small as they are in reality, can make a real difference in any individual application.

Their are other new metal wheel suppliers that I have not tried, primarily because I have yet had no need; or because (irritatingly) the axle lengths are unknown.

When doing mass replacements, a lot of the above may be far too fussy, but they can perhaps serve as a guide.  Doug Harding’s suggestions as to Intermountain wheel sets would  be a good place to start.  

P.S. Lastly, although it has been heavily promoted over the years, and on occasion I have found it very useful, generally I have otherwise found cause for routinely using a reaming tool to improve observable rollability.  

Denny

  




Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, CA 95864




Nuckolls Packing

Steve SANDIFER
 

Pueblo, CO, was home to Nuckolls Packing. Does anyone have photos of their meat reefers they can share?

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 


Re: Omaha Road Express Boxcar near Ogden, UT

gary laakso
 

Yes, the Railway Prototype Cyclopedia, Vol 6 has a color photo with the new
trucks in 1955 and still in passenger service and notes that the truck
replacements occurred from 1946 to 1952.

Gary Laakso
Northwest of Mike Brock

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rod
Miller
Sent: Saturday, August 3, 2019 10:29 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Omaha Road Express Boxcar near Ogden, UT

On 8/3/19 10:21 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

After the ban on the Allied trucks, were these applied soon after?



On 8/3/2019 11:38 AM, gary laakso wrote:

It is shown in 1946 outside of Ogden, UT, still with its Allied Full
Cushion
Trucks:

https://donstrack.smugmug.com/UtahRails/Emil-Albrecht-Photos/1946-Ogden/i-VG
5DH3V/A

Gary Laakso

--
/*Tim O'Connor*/
/*Sterling, Massachusetts*/
The car appears to have been demoted from passenger service.
No signal line and steam connections.

--
Rod Miller
Handcraftsman
===
Custom 2-rail O Scale Models: Drives,
Repairs, Steam Loco Building, More
http://www.rodmiller.com


Re: Metal Wheels

Pierre Oliver
 

Rapids offers a all metal semi scale wheel set that is perfect for TMW trucks among many others
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com

On Aug 3, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net> wrote:


Make friends with someone who can get you a deep discount :-) and buy
wheels in BULK.

My club for many years ordered wholesale quantities of cars and parts
from vendors at wholesale prices, so club members got deep discounts.
I'm sure we're not unique.



On 8/3/2019 10:44 AM, Barry Kenner wrote:
Hello Group,
I would like to replace most if not all of my plastic wheels , and change out for metal. For starters I have over 100 hoppers. That is 400 wheels. Would like to hear recommendations of what other members have done. Thanks,Barry

--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*



Re: Omaha Road Express Boxcar near Ogden, UT

Rod Miller
 

On 8/3/19 10:21 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
After the ban on the Allied trucks, were these applied soon after?
On 8/3/2019 11:38 AM, gary laakso wrote:

It is shown in 1946 outside of Ogden, UT, still with its Allied Full Cushion Trucks:

https://donstrack.smugmug.com/UtahRails/Emil-Albrecht-Photos/1946-Ogden/i-VG5DH3V/A

Gary Laakso

--
/*Tim O'Connor*/
/*Sterling, Massachusetts*/
The car appears to have been demoted from passenger service.
No signal line and steam connections.

--
Rod Miller
Handcraftsman
===
Custom 2-rail O Scale Models: Drives,
Repairs, Steam Loco Building, More
http://www.rodmiller.com


Re: Metal Wheels

Rod Miller
 

On 8/3/19 10:12 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
Make friends with someone who can get you a deep discount :-) and buy
wheels in BULK.
My club for many years ordered wholesale quantities of cars and parts
from vendors at wholesale prices, so club members got deep discounts.
I'm sure we're not unique.
On 8/3/2019 10:44 AM, Barry Kenner wrote:
Hello Group,
      I would like to replace most if not all of my plastic wheels , and change out for metal. For starters I have over 100 hoppers. That is 400 wheels. Would like to hear recommendations of what other members have done. Thanks,Barry
Being a 2-rail O scale modeler, I don't know a lot about HO
trucks. In O you have to be careful because different mfrs
trucks use different axle lengths. So I recommend that before
you buy hundreds of axles that you test the candidate axles
on a few cars. Hopefully all cars have the same trucks.

--
Rod Miller
Handcraftsman
===
Custom 2-rail O Scale Models: Drives,
Repairs, Steam Loco Building, More
http://www.rodmiller.com


Re: Omaha Road Express Boxcar near Ogden, UT

Tim O'Connor
 


After the ban on the Allied trucks, were these applied soon after?



On 8/3/2019 11:38 AM, gary laakso wrote:

It is shown in 1946 outside of Ogden, UT, still with its Allied Full Cushion Trucks:

 

https://donstrack.smugmug.com/UtahRails/Emil-Albrecht-Photos/1946-Ogden/i-VG5DH3V/A 

 

Gary Laakso



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Roommate wanted for Lisle RPM meet.

Jared Harper
 

I am looking for someone to share a room at the Lisle RPM meet in October.  Any takers?

Jared Harper
Athens, GA


Re: Gondolas converted into TOFC cars

Penny Simunic
 

Has anyone tried a kit from model tech studios?
Just purchased a soda fountain kit with no instructions.
Do I treat it as a resin or plastic for painting?
Thanks in advance.
RonS


Re: Metal Wheels

Tim O'Connor
 

Make friends with someone who can get you a deep discount :-) and buy
wheels in BULK.

My club for many years ordered wholesale quantities of cars and parts
from vendors at wholesale prices, so club members got deep discounts.
I'm sure we're not unique.

On 8/3/2019 10:44 AM, Barry Kenner wrote:
Hello Group,
      I would like to replace most if not all of my plastic wheels , and change out for metal. For starters I have over 100 hoppers. That is 400 wheels. Would like to hear recommendations of what other members have done. Thanks,Barry
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Re: Gondolas converted into TOFC cars

Tim O'Connor
 


How about this one?



On 8/2/2019 9:48 PM, rwitt_2000 via Groups.Io wrote:
Another RI  one.


The B&O did COFC using the O-27 gondola. I have a diagram, but no photo.

Bob Witt

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Gondolas converted into TOFC cars

Tim O'Connor
 

Dale

There are TWO cars in the 93600 to 93649 series in the 1959 ORER.
But there is no "asterisk" or other indication that this is a new
entry in the ORER, so they could be earlier than 1959.

By 1963 there are 13 50-2-IL cars listed, 93550 to 93599 (11 cars)
and 93600 and 93601 (2 cars).

I have no photos of the 93550 or 93600 series, so they may be rebuilds
of older cars like the 50 ft composite gondolas of the 1930's.

The 93700 series is not listed in 1959. By 1963 there were 234 cars
in series 93702 to 93936. Cars 93700 and 93701 were 70 ton capacity
TOFC flats but otherwise are the same as the others.

Tim O'Connor







On 8/2/2019 3:56 PM, dale florence via Groups.Io wrote:
Tim, 

I have one question, do you know the date these cars built, or rebuilt?

Dale Florence








On Friday, August 2, 2019, 10:21:11 AM EDT, dale florence via Groups.Io <dwwesley@...> wrote:


Tim,

Thank you for the R. I. Gondola TOFC Cars.  I am guessing that the car you built was from a Tichey  war emergency car. Looks very good.

Thanks for the pictures
Dale Florence


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Monon

Armand Premo
 

Thank you.  .Armand Premo

Virus-free. www.avast.com


On Sat, Aug 3, 2019 at 12:19 PM william darnaby <wdarnaby@...> wrote:
If you mean "The Hoosier Line" on the light grey...yes it was gray... band across the top of boxcars, that would be 1952.

Bill Darnaby




On Saturday, August 3, 2019, 09:47:35 AM CDT, Armand Premo <arm.p.prem@...> wrote:


When did the Monon adopt the "Banner Lettering " on their freight cars? Armand Premo

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Re: Photo: Heavy Duty Milwaukee Road Flat Car 601051

Tim O'Connor
 


I remember Trains magazine ran BC op-ed newspaper cartoons from that era
that were pretty funny.


On 8/2/2019 2:40 PM, Tom Madden via Groups.Io wrote:
On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 11:20 AM, Doug Polinder wrote:
There are lots of pulp mills in Prince George, so a good possibility this was going via PGE through North Vancouver.
The OP said it's a 1956 photo. When did PGE complete the line to North Vancouver? I remember a TRAINS article from the late '50s - early '60s regarding the hullabaloo that ensued when PGE decided to complete the line to N.V., disturbing a number of adjacent residents whose construction had encroached on what they assumed was an abandoned ROW.

Tom Madden

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Gondolas converted into TOFC cars

rwitt_2000
 

Found a very poor photo, - Bob Witt


Re: Monon

william darnaby
 

If you mean "The Hoosier Line" on the light grey...yes it was gray... band across the top of boxcars, that would be 1952.

Bill Darnaby




On Saturday, August 3, 2019, 09:47:35 AM CDT, Armand Premo <arm.p.prem@...> wrote:


When did the Monon adopt the "Banner Lettering " on their freight cars? Armand Premo

Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: Metal Wheels

Jon Miller
 

On 8/3/2019 8:24 AM, Douglas Harding wrote:
often find them for $79-$84 at train shows.

Google is your friend;

(https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/intermountain-ho-40055-33-all-brass-insulated-wheelsets-100-bulk-pack/?ne_ppc_id=1079742151&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3vW5jIrn4wIVkICfCh1PrwMkEAQYASABEgKs2vD_BwE). 

    You might also think about if you want to use code .88 if you are doing a mass conversion. 

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

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