Date   

Re: 3D printing (Was: New early P&R steel.....)

Ryan Mendell
 

I will take a video but I am off work for two weeks so it will have to wait


On Dec 22, 2019, at 12:24 PM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

Here is a used 3D Systems Projet 3600. https://www.ebay.com/i/264277258999?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=264277258999&targetid=593772166493&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9012145&poi=&campaignid=2086169716&mkgroupid=76147899766&rlsatarget=aud-412677883135:pla-593772166493&abcId=1141016&merchantid=6296724&gclid=EAIaIQobChMImd65nN_J5gIVTvDACh3RMgOnEAQYASABEgIM5_D_BwE

Based on the used price alone, can only assume it will be awhile before we will see one for home use to turn out quality parts. Plus depending on where we live we might have to pay to fly in the techincian Ryan mentions plus the $2K for the routine maintenance. We can dream however.

Wondering if there is any video showing the 3D Systems Projet 3600 or Projet 5500 printer in action?

Thank you Ryan for taking time to explain the complexities.

Bill Welch


Re: ATSF Bx-48 running board

Tim O'Connor
 

Ed

Bx-48
ATSF 274714, at least, appears to have had a MORTON running board and brake step.

The photo date is 1977, but the car is almost certainly original.

Tim



On 12/22/2019 2:21 PM, Ed Hawkins wrote:


On Dec 17, 2019, at 6:24 PM, Lester Breuer <frograbbit602@...> wrote:

Hello Ed,

I have a question on ATSF Bx -48 on the running board.  In your spreadsheet on Steam Era Freight Cars you state the ATSF Bx-48 has U.S. Gypsum (expanded metal) and Pierre in his kit 105.1 states Apex Tri-Lok.  Do you know if Pierre’s choice is correct correct? 

I appreciate your comments.  Thank You.

Happy Holidays,
Lester Breuer

STMFC,
I have corresponded off-list with Lester about this question. For the STMFC discussion group I offer the following information.

For the ATSF Bx-48 box cars 274000-274749, my STMFC roster with file name "Postwar AAR 4-4 IDN & NSC (1945-1950s).pdf" that states G1 (U.S. Gypsum of the expanded metal design) is incorrect. My apology for the error, and I have made a correction to my list to denote M* for Morton running boards/brake step. The asterisk indicates the possibility than one or more other types may have been used on the order of 750 cars. 

 For anyone who has downloaded the file, please annotate your copy accordingly.

The ATSF box car diagrams denote many specialties but do not specify the running boards/brake steps for the Bx-48 cars. I also lack having ATSF or Pullman-Standard documentation for these lot 5832 cars that specifies the type(s) of running boards/brake steps applied to the entire series. For a long time, my only photo from the Bx-48 class was a side view of 274332. From this photo I originally identified the running boards/brake step as U.S. Gypsum, but a closer look shows Morton.

The only other Bx-48 photo I’ve seen is the Pullman-Standard builder photo of 274199 published on p. 345 of the 1949-1951 Car Builders’ Cyclopedia. The print quality makes it difficult to discern that the car had a Morton running board & brake step. Patrick C. Wider published the same photo obtained from the Library and Archives Canada on p. 207 of RP CYC Volume 31-32. 

If members of the STMFC have other photos of ATSF Bx-48 box cars with a clear view of the running boards/brake step, please share in order to help determine if Morton was the only type used.

Regards,
Ed Hawkins
_._,_._,_

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Photo: Wabash Gondola 13000

Tim O'Connor
 


Were these cars painted black, or oxide red, when they were new?

Tim O'Connor


On 12/22/2019 12:25 PM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io wrote:

Photo: Wabash Gondola 13000

From the Decatur, IL, Herald & Review archives:

https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/herald-review.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/8/fd/8fd30101-1d09-50bb-bfcc-22400f6f6da3/578e9b1837e00.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C957

Caption: H&R file photo 5-16-1944 Local Wabash car shops have just completed the first of 250 new composite gondola cars and will be busy until after July 1 turning out this order at the rate of about four cars a day. The shops have built about all other types of cars but this is the first composite gondola for them.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: ATSF Bx-48 running board

Ed Hawkins
 



On Dec 17, 2019, at 6:24 PM, Lester Breuer <frograbbit602@...> wrote:

Hello Ed,

I have a question on ATSF Bx -48 on the running board.  In your spreadsheet on Steam Era Freight Cars you state the ATSF Bx-48 has U.S. Gypsum (expanded metal) and Pierre in his kit 105.1 states Apex Tri-Lok.  Do you know if Pierre’s choice is correct correct? 

I appreciate your comments.  Thank You.

Happy Holidays,
Lester Breuer

STMFC,
I have corresponded off-list with Lester about this question. For the STMFC discussion group I offer the following information.

For the ATSF Bx-48 box cars 274000-274749, my STMFC roster with file name "Postwar AAR 4-4 IDN & NSC (1945-1950s).pdf" that states G1 (U.S. Gypsum of the expanded metal design) is incorrect. My apology for the error, and I have made a correction to my list to denote M* for Morton running boards/brake step. The asterisk indicates the possibility than one or more other types may have been used on the order of 750 cars. 

 For anyone who has downloaded the file, please annotate your copy accordingly.

The ATSF box car diagrams denote many specialties but do not specify the running boards/brake steps for the Bx-48 cars. I also lack having ATSF or Pullman-Standard documentation for these lot 5832 cars that specifies the type(s) of running boards/brake steps applied to the entire series. For a long time, my only photo from the Bx-48 class was a side view of 274332. From this photo I originally identified the running boards/brake step as U.S. Gypsum, but a closer look shows Morton.

The only other Bx-48 photo I’ve seen is the Pullman-Standard builder photo of 274199 published on p. 345 of the 1949-1951 Car Builders’ Cyclopedia. The print quality makes it difficult to discern that the car had a Morton running board & brake step. Patrick C. Wider published the same photo obtained from the Library and Archives Canada on p. 207 of RP CYC Volume 31-32. 

If members of the STMFC have other photos of ATSF Bx-48 box cars with a clear view of the running boards/brake step, please share in order to help determine if Morton was the only type used.

Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Photo: ACL 17859

radiodial868
 

Southern-grown watermelons.  Real thick rind (made great watermelon pickles) deep red juicy flesh with lots of black seeds. Weighed a ton, but shipped and stored well. Fell out of favor in the early 1970's because of that weight, thick rind and seeds.  So, we now get those bland, tasteless, smaller and sometimes seedless things in the stores.
RJ Dial
(ex USDA guy)


Re: Photo: NJI&I Boxcar 4100

Tony Thompson
 

Garth Groff wrote:

Did anyone else notice that the photo of NJI&I is a very crude fake? Blow it up and you will see that the rivets appear to have been added through retouching and the trucks look like they were drawn by hand. It appears that the lettering was added onto a photo of another car. Even the panels are not of uniform width, though this did happen. Perhaps this photo is a mock-up done before the cars were actually built and lettered.

      Sometimes when a photo like this, of the shady side of a car, doesn't have all the detail you wished it did, the lab would "improve" it for you. Both the trucks and the rivet rows clearly look enhanced. I noticed that the reporting mark stripes are not correctly aligned with the vanishing-point angle. All that lettering on the right of the car side, in fact, is probably not in the original negative.

Tony Thompson




Re: Photo: NJI&I Boxcar 4100

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Friends,

Did anyone else notice that the photo of NJI&I is a very crude fake? Blow it up and you will see that the rivets appear to have been added through retouching and the trucks look like they were drawn by hand. It appears that the lettering was added onto a photo of another car. Even the panels are not of uniform width, though this did happen. Perhaps this photo is a mock-up done before the cars were actually built and lettered.

NJI&I indeed did have a series of boxcar that match this number, 4100-4149. 

Yours Aye,

Mungo Napier, Laird of Mallard Lodge  🦆


On Sun, Dec 22, 2019 at 12:25 PM Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photo: NJI&I Boxcar 4100

From the Decatur, IL, Herald & Review archives:

https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/herald-review.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/8/f7/8f7680d3-54b4-57ad-939d-3a8c99db526b/578e9b15500aa.image.jpg?resize=750%2C583

Caption: H&R file photo 2-3-1944 First new all-steel cars to be turned out at the Wabash car shops since relaxation of steel priorities for railroad work is a boxcar for the N.J.I. and I., a Wabash-controlled branch line in Northern Indiana.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photo: ACL 17859

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

   I wondered about pumpkins as well, Doug, but these have too much length for any pumpkin
variety I've ever seen even some grown hereabouts that have gone well over 1,000 pounds. Some
have been carved into Cindarella's coach for display at fairs.

My best, Don Valentine


Re: Bridge girder on three PRR FM flat cars

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

Proving once again that the DL&W LOVED concrete! I don't know if I've ever seen another road that used
so much concrete for everything from culverts to major viaducts. Most seem to have withstood the test of
time quite well. Are there any any that have failed that I am unaware of?

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: ATSF AAR 40’ Box Panels ?

John Barry
 

Alan,

You may be able to obtain a scan of the Santa Fe blueprints for the cars from the archives in Temple Tx.  Contact Craig Ordner, he archivist.  I have obtained the sheets for the Bx-34 for this year's Shake & Take from there.  I'm not sure on availability as anything past the Bx-44 is too new for me.  

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736


On Friday, December 20, 2019, 07:35:10 PM EST, Allan Smith <smithal9@...> wrote:


I have been looking at photos of the ATSF Boxcar series with the twelve panel sides and am trying to determine the dimensions of the one wide panel and the five narrow panels on each side of the door. Does anyone have a drawing of this series giving those dimensions? my calculations Scaled from blown up photos, the car is 40'6" or 486", so I come up with 3-44-32-32-32-32-32-72-32-32-32-32-44-3, 3" for the ends 72" for the door. I have conductors lists from 1954 on the Sierra Railroad and there are 15 cars from the 12 panel series Bx-48 Bx-50 Bx-51 Bx-53 Bx-60 Bx-62 Bx-63 on the list. I am trying to build the cars from this list for my railroad and would like to be as accurate as possible. If anyone has this info it would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You 

Al Smith
Sonora CA
"

On Thursday, December 19, 2019, 06:31:02 AM PST, O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:


Thanks for sharing Ted
Fenton 


On Dec 19, 2019, at 8:08 AM, Ted Culotta <speedwitchmedia@...> wrote:


Re: Photo: Wabash Gondola 13000

Bill Welch
 

War Emergency gon available in kit form from Funaro & Camerlengo.

Bill Welch


Photo: Wabash Gondola 13000

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Wabash Gondola 13000

From the Decatur, IL, Herald & Review archives:

https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/herald-review.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/8/fd/8fd30101-1d09-50bb-bfcc-22400f6f6da3/578e9b1837e00.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C957

Caption: H&R file photo 5-16-1944 Local Wabash car shops have just completed the first of 250 new composite gondola cars and will be busy until after July 1 turning out this order at the rate of about four cars a day. The shops have built about all other types of cars but this is the first composite gondola for them.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: NJI&I Boxcar 4100

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: NJI&I Boxcar 4100

From the Decatur, IL, Herald & Review archives:

https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/herald-review.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/8/f7/8f7680d3-54b4-57ad-939d-3a8c99db526b/578e9b15500aa.image.jpg?resize=750%2C583

Caption: H&R file photo 2-3-1944 First new all-steel cars to be turned out at the Wabash car shops since relaxation of steel priorities for railroad work is a boxcar for the N.J.I. and I., a Wabash-controlled branch line in Northern Indiana.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: 3D printing (Was: New early P&R steel.....)

Bill Welch
 

Here is a used 3D Systems Projet 3600. https://www.ebay.com/i/264277258999?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=264277258999&targetid=593772166493&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9012145&poi=&campaignid=2086169716&mkgroupid=76147899766&rlsatarget=aud-412677883135:pla-593772166493&abcId=1141016&merchantid=6296724&gclid=EAIaIQobChMImd65nN_J5gIVTvDACh3RMgOnEAQYASABEgIM5_D_BwE

Based on the used price alone, can only assume it will be awhile before we will see one for home use to turn out quality parts. Plus depending on where we live we might have to pay to fly in the techincian Ryan mentions plus the $2K for the routine maintenance. We can dream however.

Wondering if there is any video showing the 3D Systems Projet 3600 or Projet 5500 printer in action?

Thank you Ryan for taking time to explain the complexities.

Bill Welch


Re: Photo: ACL 17859

Matthew Hurst
 

One on the left back of the truck looks like an abnormally large neck pumpkin.... the one that looks like a U....at least that’s what my wife says. 

Love the cars!

Matthew Hurst
Modeling the late great PRR and the tini tiny H&BTM 
Winchester, VA


On Dec 22, 2019, at 7:59 AM, Douglas Harding <doug.harding@...> wrote:



They look like pumpkins to me.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of mel perry
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2019 9:22 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ACL 17859

 

those are wierd looking wstermelons

mel perry

 

On Sat, Dec 21, 2019, 7:13 PM Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photo: ACL 17859

A photo from the Collier Museums:

http://i.colliergov.net/museum/zp-core/full-image.php?a=immokalee-historic-archive&i=81.9.19.jpg&q=75&wmk=collier&dsp=Protected view

Not a great photo but at least a partial view of this ACL ventilated boxcar.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: 3D printing (Was: New early P&R steel.....)

radiodial868
 

Ryan, thanks for this very good explanation. I reread it 3 times.  I've been monitoring 3D printing with interest for about 3 years now, looking to move past having shapeways print my small detail parts and hoping commercial technology will eventually be able to do more complex car bodies. In the meantime, I keep watching for a home printer that can do those small detail parts. Speed is not important, but finish and ease of maintenance is.
RJ Dial
Burlingame, CA


Re: Bridge girder on three PRR FM flat cars

mopacfirst
 

And that small angle retaining piece is significantly bent, as are the tie rods attached to it, making it appear that the girder probably had a significant shift forward, assuming that the leading edge of the load was toward the viewer.

Ron Merrick


Re: Bridge girder on three PRR FM flat cars

Bruce Smith
 

And in this photo, the retaining piece on the bottom at the end is fully attached to the girder, supporting the contention that the Steamtown photo is a "damage" photo.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of BRIAN PAUL EHNI <bpehni@...>
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2019 10:31 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Bridge girder on three PRR FM flat cars
 

We’ve discussed this load before. Here’s another picture.

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of mel perry <clipper841@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Saturday, December 21, 2019 at 5:51 PM
To: <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Bridge girder on three PRR FM flat cars

 

if you look closely at the pic, the front

centering bracket is partially separated

from the bottom of the girder, indicating

that the load had shifted forward slightly

probably becauae of lack thereof or

insufficient restraints, wonder if cfr49

was in existence back then or would

have been the aar?

mel perry

 

 

 

On Sat, Dec 21, 2019, 3:23 PM Matthew Metoyer <mmetoyer@...> wrote:

These Erie photos tend to be of damages, either to the car or lading. Could the load have shifted and hence the photo?

 

Matthew Metoyer

 

On Sat, Dec 21, 2019 at 3:01 PM mel perry <clipper841@...> wrote:

that also my thought, there is no forward

or backwards restrains at all, i guess back then "g's" hadn't been invented, lol

:-)

mel perry

 

On Sat, Dec 21, 2019, 12:32 PM Charlie Vlk <cvlk@...> wrote:

Llyod

Think about the dynamics of the three cars going over the approach and crest of the hump.....the load is not secured for extreme vertical curves nor the impact of running into a string of cars after being humped (if the middle car didn’t dislodge the girder as it went over the top!!).

Charlie Vlk 



On Dec 21, 2019, at 10:57 AM, Charles Peck <lnnrr152@...> wrote:



Lloyd's question raises another question. When was the first hump yard

built and where?

Chuck Peck

 

On Sat, Dec 21, 2019 at 11:45 AM Lloyd Keyser <lloydkeyser@...> wrote:

Why is there not a Do No Hump sign on this load  Lloyd Keyser


Re: Photo: ACL 17859

Bruce Smith
 

Eric's post points out that produce that would have been loaded into freight in the steam era may at times have little resemblance to what you might see in the market today. Agriculture and the genetics of the food raised have changed radically. New varieties of crops are continually created by cross breeding and selection to meet threats such as disease, and market pressures, such as no bruises or blemishes. 

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, Al


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Eric Hansmann <eric@...>
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2019 8:24 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ACL 17859
 
Those could be of the Moon and Stars variety, or Sugar Baby. There have been many varietals. Here are some. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Dec 22, 2019, at 7:59 AM, Douglas Harding <doug.harding@...> wrote:

They look like pumpkins to me.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of mel perry
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2019 9:22 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ACL 17859

 

those are wierd looking wstermelons

mel perry

 

On Sat, Dec 21, 2019, 7:13 PM Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photo: ACL 17859

A photo from the Collier Museums:

http://i.colliergov.net/museum/zp-core/full-image.php?a=immokalee-historic-archive&i=81.9.19.jpg&q=75&wmk=collier&dsp=Protected view

Not a great photo but at least a partial view of this ACL ventilated boxcar.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Grace Tank Car

John Hile
 

Hello All,

AESX 576 is a Pressed Steel Car Co. product.  Speedwitch Media's "Steam Era Freight Cars Reference Manual, Volume Two" has several photos for reference.

The underframe of GRYX 168 may represent the fact that ACF changed running board supports on "Type 27" underframes around 1940.  On "Type 27" prior to that date, they tend to be the tapered c-channels, hung on the side of the center sill (as shown on GRYX 168).  These are similar (if not identical to) "Type 21" supports.  After approx. 1940, the supports tend to be the angle-sections, which are triangulated to the top and bottom of the center sill.  I have a great degree of confidence in the 1940 date from the photo evidence, but am using the word "tend" because we all know there is probably an ACF "Type 27" lot out there somewhere that will contradict the assumption that all supports changed in 1940.

I'm glad to see this coming-up on the list, as a few of us briefly discussed this at the last St. Louis RPM.

Also, note the mis-matched trucks on GRYX 168.

John Hile
Blacksburg, VA

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