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Re: Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)
Steve SANDIFER
It’s all in the Santa Fe Painting and Lettering Guide, now officially Out of Print, but being updated and reprinted with more photos and details.
J. Stephen Sandifer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of radiodial868
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 10:09 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)
Me too, Steve, this is nice! Too bad I didn't have this summary this past dozen or so years I've been building Santa Fe resin kits. Westerfield and Sunshine & F&C kit prototype color history were all over the map and many times conflicting. Looks like I have some paint and lettering touchups to do now.
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HO Tank Car Lid
Allen Cain
The picture of the Warren Tank Car being filled inspired me to model a car being filled.
Does anyone offer an HO tank car top with a lid that opens to model a car being filled? Probably not using the right terms but you get my meaning I hope. Would be interested in one for either gas, oil, propane or acid tank cars. Thanks, Allen Cain
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Re: Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)
Steve SANDIFER
The roof was raised on these in 1946-1951 (3290 of them) and over 100 lasted into 1965-66. The last ones on the Live List were in 1974. Add the BX-11 to that and the numbers grow to 4550. These were signature cars on the Santa Fe. (Westerfield 4600, 4700, Dalman trucks)
J. Stephen Sandifer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Todd Horton via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2020 10:07 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)
Great photo, did these cars get AB brakes and survive till?
Todd Horton
On Sunday, November 22, 2020, 09:14:49 PM EST, BRIAN PAUL EHNI <bpehni@...> wrote:
Thanks!
From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948) A photo from the Denver Public Library: https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/55053/rec/56 Click on the arrows in the upper right hand corner of the photo to enlarge it and scroll to enlarge it further. Car built in 1930. The car height was extended with a new steel panel roof and upper side and end panels during a minor rebuilding program in 1941-1944. Car has a switching tag or card ("52") on the door. Bob Chaparro Hemet, CA
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MKT model from a Accurail SS box car kit
Clark Propst
Does anyone know of any info on this cars in the RP Cyc? I have Ted's RMC essentials article, but there seems to be differences in these cars. I'd like to find the ose info I could on the ones matching the Accurail car the closest.
As always, thanks for any advice, Clark Propst
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Images of WARREN tank cas at Olsen Co, Bridgeport, Texas, in 1958
Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Hi List Members,
Images of WARREN tank cars at Olsen Co, Bridgeport, Texas, in 1958
Enjoy!
Claus Schlund
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SP tank cars, Jennings, LA, 1909-1915
Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Hi List Members,
Image of SP tank cars, Jennings, LA, 1909-1915
Enjoy!
Claus Schlund
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Re: Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)
radiodial868
Me too, Steve, this is nice! Too bad I didn't have this summary this past dozen or so years I've been building Santa Fe resin kits. Westerfield and Sunshine & F&C kit prototype color history were all over the map and many times conflicting. Looks like I have some paint and lettering touchups to do now. ------------------- RJ Dial Mendocino, CA
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Re: Missouri & North Arkansas Boxcar
Jim, It appears to have the unique pattern of a Mather car in the end panel of the side. if it is M&NA, and is a Mather car, then it would be M&NA 2600-2649, Mather cars, active 7-1934 to late 1939. Eric Lombard Homewood, IL
This is a very poor resolution photograph:
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Re: Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)
al_brown03
"K" is the model of the Royal regulator. There's also a type F, I think. The applications I've seen were to AB brakes, although I think they'd work on schedule K brakes if so applied (Royal regulators are a form of slack adjuster).
Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.
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partial image of steel reefer ART 47933
Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Hi List Members,
I thought some might enjoy this partial image of steel reefer ART 47933.
While the image was taken in 1965, I suspect the car was in service during this
list's time period of interest.
Enjoy!
Claus Schlund
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Re: Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)
Paul Doggett
Schuyler
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
It’s got AB brakes Royal K is the type of adjuster. K brakes where outlawed in interchange service in or by 1953 it kept getting pushed back, Paul Doggett. England 🏴
On 23 Nov 2020, at 15:53, Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:
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Re: Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)
Schuyler Larrabee
Thank you, Brian. Prior to the photo I’d not noted the legend “ROYAL K BRK REGL” on the side of the car. This is obviously 1948 or later, but K brakes? Were they not outlawed by then? (I admit to not reading all preceding posts about this interesting car!)
Schuyler
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of BRIAN PAUL EHNI
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2020 9:15 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)
Thanks!
From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948) A photo from the Denver Public Library: https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/55053/rec/56 Click on the arrows in the upper right hand corner of the photo to enlarge it and scroll to enlarge it further. Car built in 1930. The car height was extended with a new steel panel roof and upper side and end panels during a minor rebuilding program in 1941-1944. Car has a switching tag or card ("52") on the door. Bob Chaparro Hemet, CA
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Re: GTW 583200 series autocar with 7' door - 1940 era
The January 1954 edition of the ORER lists 150 cars in the series 441000-441499 with 67 having extreme outside width of 10’7” while the remainder were 11’. All have 6 foot door openings.
Steve Hile
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Robert kirkham
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 2:06 AM To: main@realstmfc.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] GTW 583200 series autocar with 7' door - 1940 era
In case anyone else is building one of the F&C kit no.6650 models and wonders what decals are appropriate, I eventually made a breakthrough this evening. I have not exhausted possible CV prototypes, but haven’t found one yet either. But in the GTW fleet, I found a photo of a car that has approximately the same characteristics: GTW441304, of the 441311- 441499. Ian Cranstone’s roster information says these were converted from the x583702-584701 series in 1940. The entry reads: “ x583702-584701 series /40, 441311-441499 ret.? /41, some re#586500-586999 series? /46-/47.”
The 583702 series were described as series 2 cars in Stafford Swaine’s article in Railmodel Journal Feb 2001 titled “Modeling 40-Foot CN Steel-Frame Box Cars, Part III, Type E Cars In HO Scale From Steam Shack Kits”. They originally had the end doors and a 10’ 6” side door opening. The conversion to the 441311 series shows the side doors reduced to 6’, (not the 7’ called out and modelled in the F&C kit). So this isn’t a perfect fit with the model, but since I have it 90% complete, I have to land on something.
I’m not entirely sure what “ret.? /41" means. The 441311 series lasted though to 1970.
Cars in the 586500-586999 series conversions of 1946/47 were identified ins Swaine’s article as conversions from series 1, 2 and 3 cars, and shown as still having 12’ side doors.
I also found a photo of 465142 which, to my eye, may have a 7’ door. But in the roster info Ian Cranstone has listed, the series is shown as 6’ doors. Other photos from that series have no end doors. So its a bit of a mixed bag.
I have more work to do sorting this model’s prototype out, but I’m leaning toward doing a model of a car in the 441311 series and assume there were 7’ doors in that group.
Not ideal prototype modelling with a resin kit!!
Rob
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Re: GTW 583200 series autocar with 7' door - what era?
Andy Laurent
Rob,
Double doors - 10' opening, according to the ORER. Andy
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Re: Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)
Schuyler Larrabee
Thanks, Steve, for a great summary. Carefully saved this for future reference.
Schuyler
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve SANDIFER
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2020 2:51 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)
1910-1931: Mineral Brown – sides, ends, roofs, doors, underframes and trucks on repainted cars. Black – underframes and trucks on new cars, route card boards.
1931-1951 Mineral Brown: sides, ends, and doors, underframes and trucks on repainted cars; wood sheathed roofs, wood running boards, edges of flooring at door openings, roof hatches on convertible stock cars. Black: underframes and trucks on new cars only, route card boards (not on all cars). Black Anti-slip – steel or metal sheathed roofs, steel running boards on repainted cars.
1951-1980 Mineral brown – sides, ends (most cars) and doors; underframes and trucks on repainted cars, wood sheathed roofs, wood running boards, steel running boards (repainted cars); ends of flooring at door openings, roof hatches on convertible stock cars. Black: underframes and trucks (new cars only); route card boards (only in the early 50s, not on all cars). Anti-slip mineral brown: steel or metal-sheathed roofs. Began in 1951 but black or redish brown granules continued to be used on some cars for several years. Anti-slip was discontinued in the late 50s/early 60s because trainmen seldom rode the car tops when in movement.
1940-47 – Santa Fe System Maps 1947-58 – Ship & Travel
Through 1937: A.T.&S.F. 1938-1943 : A.T.S.F 1944+: ATSF
J. Stephen Sandifer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of WILLIAM PARDIE
There are many Santa Fe experts that can confirm this but I have felt that the black roofs came into play around the mid 40's. I have builders photos of the war emergency box car with rhe mineral brown roof.
Bill Pardie
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message -------- From: Scott <repairman87@...> Date: 11/22/20 7:57 AM (GMT-10:00) Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)
Well, this one has a mineral red roof on it and a 1948 re-weigh. I guess I have been painting them wrong all this time which is disappointing. I thought they still had black roofs then. Certainly make painting then easier I suppose.
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Re: GTW 583200 series autocar with 7' door - 1940 era
Robert kirkham
In case anyone else is building one of the F&C kit no.6650 models and wonders what decals are appropriate, I eventually made a breakthrough this evening. I have not exhausted possible CV prototypes, but haven’t found one yet either. But in the GTW fleet, I found a photo of a car that has approximately the same characteristics: GTW441304, of the
441311- 441499. Ian Cranstone’s roster information says these were converted from the
x583702-584701
series in 1940. The entry reads: “
x583702-584701
series /40, 441311-441499 ret.? /41, some re#586500-586999 series? /46-/47.”
The 583702 series were described as series 2 cars in Stafford Swaine’s article in Railmodel Journal Feb 2001 titled “Modeling 40-Foot CN Steel-Frame Box Cars, Part III, Type E Cars In HO Scale From Steam Shack Kits”. They originally had the end doors and a 10’ 6” side door opening. The conversion to the 441311 series shows the side doors reduced to 6’, (not the 7’ called out and modelled in the F&C kit). So this isn’t a perfect fit with the model, but since I have it 90% complete, I have to land on something. I’m not entirely sure what “ret.? /41" means. The 441311 series lasted though to 1970. Cars in the 586500-586999 series conversions of 1946/47 were identified ins Swaine’s article as conversions from series 1, 2 and 3 cars, and shown as still having 12’ side doors. I also found a photo of 465142 which, to my eye, may have a 7’ door. But in the roster info Ian Cranstone has listed, the series is shown as 6’ doors. Other photos from that series have no end doors. So its a bit of a mixed bag.
I have more work to do sorting this model’s prototype out, but I’m leaning toward doing a model of a car in the 441311 series and assume there were 7’ doors in that group. Not ideal prototype modelling with a resin kit!! Rob
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Re: Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)
Jim Gates
The last Bx-12's in revenue service were in 1974. So certainly AB brakes. I believe most of the received steel sheathing. Jim Gates
On Sunday, November 22, 2020, 10:07:22 PM CST, Todd Horton via groups.io <toddchorton@...> wrote: Great photo, did these cars get AB brakes and survive till? Todd Horton On Sunday, November 22, 2020, 09:14:49 PM EST, BRIAN PAUL EHNI <bpehni@...> wrote:
Thanks!
From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948) A photo from the Denver Public Library: https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/55053/rec/56 Click on the arrows in the upper right hand corner of the photo to enlarge it and scroll to enlarge it further. Car built in 1930. The car height was extended with a new steel panel roof and upper side and end panels during a minor rebuilding program in 1941-1944. Car has a switching tag or card ("52") on the door. Bob Chaparro Hemet, CA
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Re: Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)
Todd Horton
Great photo, did these cars get AB brakes and survive till? Todd Horton
On Sunday, November 22, 2020, 09:14:49 PM EST, BRIAN PAUL EHNI <bpehni@...> wrote:
Thanks!
From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948) A photo from the Denver Public Library: https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/55053/rec/56 Click on the arrows in the upper right hand corner of the photo to enlarge it and scroll to enlarge it further. Car built in 1930. The car height was extended with a new steel panel roof and upper side and end panels during a minor rebuilding program in 1941-1944. Car has a switching tag or card ("52") on the door. Bob Chaparro Hemet, CA
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Re: Photo: Rock Island Boxcar 22335 (1952)
hubert mask
FYI , I offer that decal for the ACF and Pullman car. 100 years.
Nice photo.
Hubert Mask
Mask Island Decals Inc.
On Nov 22, 2020, at 9:12 PM, BRIAN PAUL EHNI <bpehni@...> wrote:
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Re: Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)
BRIAN PAUL EHNI
Thanks!
From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948) A photo from the Denver Public Library: https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/55053/rec/56 Click on the arrows in the upper right hand corner of the photo to enlarge it and scroll to enlarge it further. Car built in 1930. The car height was extended with a new steel panel roof and upper side and end panels during a minor rebuilding program in 1941-1944. Car has a switching tag or card ("52") on the door. Bob Chaparro Hemet, CA
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