Date   

Re: Photos: Wabash

 

They had plenty of barrage balloons though.

Thanks!
Brian Ehni
(Sent from my iPhone)

On May 14, 2019, at 10:13 PM, Jim Gates via Groups.Io <jim.gates=ymail.com@groups.io> wrote:

The US Army did not have dirigibles, only the US Navy.

Jim Gates
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 5/14/19, Bruce Smith <smithbf@auburn.edu> wrote:

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photos: Wabash
To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Tuesday, May 14, 2019, 7:43 AM

And the big one… the mostest obvious one… and the one confirmed by the lettering on the Helium car “US ARMY AIR
SERVICE”… The burgeoning US dirigible fleet. We’ve discussed these helium cars here before. They were built in
part to deal with the needs of the rigid, lighter-than-air, airship fleet.

Regards
Bruce



Re: Photos: Wabash

Tim O'Connor
 


proving again that once a bureaucracy gets hold of a project it's hard to pry away from them again

On 5/14/2019 11:16 PM, Ray Breyer via Groups.Io wrote:
>>The US Army did not have dirigibles, only the US Navy.
>>Jim Gates

Definitely not true.


Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Photos: Wabash

Bruce Smith
 

Technically correct, but they did have at least one semi-rigid airship and many blimps.


Regards

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL





From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Jim Gates via Groups.Io <jim.gates@...>
Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2019 10:13 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photos: Wabash
 
The US Army did not have dirigibles, only the US Navy.

Jim Gates
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 5/14/19, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photos: Wabash
 To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
 Date: Tuesday, May 14, 2019, 7:43 AM
 
 And the big one… the mostest obvious one… and the one confirmed by the lettering on the Helium car “US ARMY AIR
 SERVICE”…  The burgeoning US dirigible fleet. We’ve discussed these helium cars here before. They were built in
 part to deal with the needs of the  rigid, lighter-than-air, airship fleet.
 
 Regards
 Bruce




Re: Photos: Wabash

Ray Breyer
 

>>The US Army did not have dirigibles, only the US Navy.
>>Jim Gates

Definitely not true.


Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


Re: Photos: Wabash

Jim Gates
 

The US Army did not have dirigibles, only the US Navy.

Jim Gates
--------------------------------------------

On Tue, 5/14/19, Bruce Smith <smithbf@auburn.edu> wrote:

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photos: Wabash
To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Tuesday, May 14, 2019, 7:43 AM

And the big one… the mostest obvious one… and the one confirmed by the lettering on the Helium car “US ARMY AIR
SERVICE”…  The burgeoning US dirigible fleet. We’ve discussed these helium cars here before. They were built in
part to deal with the needs of the rigid, lighter-than-air, airship fleet.

Regards
Bruce


Re: Photos: Wabash

Tony Thompson
 

Garth Groff wrote:

Helium is really a heavy gas when condensed, so this car (and the successor cars we are more familiar with) had to be really beefy.

   Um, no. It's the 3000 pounds per square inch pressure (and higher) inside the tanks that makes them thick-walled and very heavy. The helium is a small part of the total weight.

My 1958 ORER does not show any USQX cars. 

    The early cars were both USQX and USNX (Navy) but later were all USNX until 1955, when the Bureau of Mines took them over and applied MHAX marks (the name Mines Helium Activity is the reason for the initials). I wrote about some of the technical background in describing modeling of a later car. You can find the first post of a three-post series at the following link, if you're interested:


Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: Photos: Wabash - Helium

Steve SANDIFER
 

US Navy 1001 was the first helium car, October 1926, 3 tube car. USNX

1927 two more were builtl, assigned to U. S. Q. X. (U. S. Army Air service)#201, 202

These three were the only 3 tube helium cars.

1930, USNX 1002-1006 were built as 28 tube cars, smaller tubes of course.

1933 introduced the 30 tube cars, USNX 1007-1012

Cars continued to be manufactured until the last by Magor in 1962. A total of 241 cars were built.

 

On reporting marks, MHAX came into being 1955 with later 30 tube cars.

ATMX also in 1955

USNX changed to HMAX/ATMX in June-July 1955.

All active cars were MHAX after 1964.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Garth Groff
Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2019 4:32 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photos: Wabash

 

Allen and friends,

I saved this photo to my desktop and lightened it a bit with Photoshop to see the trucks. They are a very interesting heavy-duty Andrews type with outside hung brakes shoes. They appear to have standard journal box covers, but I would not be surprised if these hide roller bearings. Note the extremely large brake reservoir. Helium is really a heavy gas when condensed, so this car (and the successor cars we are more familiar with) had to be really beefy.

Somewhere I found plans for this car from an article in a 1940s modeling book. Sadly, I can't find same. I probably threw them away because I would never have a use for a car like this. I remember that the tanks were turned from hardwood dowels on a lathe.

The car carries U.S. Army Quartermaster markings. What would the Army do with helium, you ask. Weather balloons come to mind.

My 1958 ORER does not show any USQX cars. All Department of the Army cars are listed as USAX, and I find no helium cars listed. There are lot of specialty tank cars in small lots carrying some pretty sinister-sounding chemicals like chlorine and white phosphorus. Nor are any helium cars listed for the Navy under USNX (curious, because the Navy was still flying blimps at that time). All the helium cars I could find are listed under MAHX reporting marks for the Bureau of Mines Activity, Amarillo, Texas. They list 3 cars at 182,500 cu. ft. and a 14000 capacity, which might be the former Quartermaster cars. All the rest are over 200,000 feet and have a 20000 capacity, which are probably variations on the cars with which we are familiar as once offered by AHM.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 5/13/19 10:22 PM, Allen Rueter via Groups.Io wrote:

even more freight cars by

searching the Herald Review for  just Wabash

there's helium cars from 1931

--

Allen Rueter

StLouis MO

 



This is a link to forty-five photos of the Wabash yards from the files of the Decatur Herald-Review:

https://herald-review.com/gallery/history/photos-wabash-yards/collection_4a3092b0-b124-5ed7-be01-e860c79d42d4.html

Mostly long shots. Some photos are dated and some show freight cars with fair detail.

-

Tim O'Connor

Sterling, Massachusetts

 


Re: Photos: Wabash

Bruce Smith
 

Garth,

1) These are plain bearing trucks. While there were roller bearings in 1931, they were quite rare and mostly applied to passenger cars. 
2) No helium is NOT really heavy when condensed. When looking at helium cars, their Lt Wt may exceed the nominal car weight, although not the Load Limit (the old saw about these cars being heavier empty is humorous but patently false for anyone tempted to post it…). Thus the weight was the TANKS, not what was in the tanks.
3) An outstanding history of helium cars by Jay Miller has been posted at https://sfrhms.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/helium_handout.pdf  This will help you understand how ownership and reporting marks for these cars changed over the years.

We discussed this exact photo on this list in November, 2016 ;)

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On May 14, 2019, at 4:31 AM, Garth Groff <sarahsan@...> wrote:

Allen and friends,

I saved this photo to my desktop and lightened it a bit with Photoshop to see the trucks. They are a very interesting heavy-duty Andrews type with outside hung brakes shoes. They appear to have standard journal box covers, but I would not be surprised if these hide roller bearings. Note the extremely large brake reservoir. Helium is really a heavy gas when condensed, so this car (and the successor cars we are more familiar with) had to be really beefy.

Somewhere I found plans for this car from an article in a 1940s modeling book. Sadly, I can't find same. I probably threw them away because I would never have a use for a car like this. I remember that the tanks were turned from hardwood dowels on a lathe.

The car carries U.S. Army Quartermaster markings. What would the Army do with helium, you ask. Weather balloons come to mind.

My 1958 ORER does not show any USQX cars. All Department of the Army cars are listed as USAX, and I find no helium cars listed. There are lot of specialty tank cars in small lots carrying some pretty sinister-sounding chemicals like chlorine and white phosphorus. Nor are any helium cars listed for the Navy under USNX (curious, because the Navy was still flying blimps at that time). All the helium cars I could find are listed under MAHX reporting marks for the Bureau of Mines Activity, Amarillo, Texas. They list 3 cars at 182,500 cu. ft. and a 14000 capacity, which might be the former Quartermaster cars. All the rest are over 200,000 feet and have a 20000 capacity, which are probably variations on the cars with which we are familiar as once offered by AHM.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 5/13/19 10:22 PM, Allen Rueter via Groups.Io wrote:
even more freight cars by
searching the Herald Review for  just Wabash
there's helium cars from 1931
--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO


This is a link to forty-five photos of the Wabash yards from the files of the Decatur Herald-Review:
Mostly long shots. Some photos are dated and some show freight cars with fair detail.
-
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts



Re: Photos: Wabash

Bruce Smith
 

And the big one… the mostest obvious one… and the one confirmed by the lettering on the Helium car “US ARMY AIR SERVICE”…  The burgeoning US dirigible fleet. We’ve discussed these helium cars here before. They were built in part to deal with the needs of the rigid, lighter-than-air, airship fleet.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith            
Auburn, AL
"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On May 14, 2019, at 7:31 AM, Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...> wrote:

On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 02:32 AM, Garth Groff wrote:
The car carries U.S. Army Quartermaster markings. What would the Army do with helium, you ask. Weather balloons come to mind.
Antiaircraft balloons for coastal defense..At the time, the nation's coast was ringed with coastal artillery batteries, all manned by the army.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Photos: Wabash

Bruce Smith
 

In 1931? Observation balloons as well ;) 

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On May 14, 2019, at 7:31 AM, Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...> wrote:

On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 02:32 AM, Garth Groff wrote:
The car carries U.S. Army Quartermaster markings. What would the Army do with helium, you ask. Weather balloons come to mind.
Antiaircraft balloons for coastal defense..At the time, the nation's coast was ringed with coastal artillery batteries, all manned by the army.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Photos: Wabash

Dennis Storzek
 

On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 02:32 AM, Garth Groff wrote:
The car carries U.S. Army Quartermaster markings. What would the Army do with helium, you ask. Weather balloons come to mind.
Antiaircraft balloons for coastal defense..At the time, the nation's coast was ringed with coastal artillery batteries, all manned by the army.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Photos: Wabash

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Allen and friends,

I saved this photo to my desktop and lightened it a bit with Photoshop to see the trucks. They are a very interesting heavy-duty Andrews type with outside hung brakes shoes. They appear to have standard journal box covers, but I would not be surprised if these hide roller bearings. Note the extremely large brake reservoir. Helium is really a heavy gas when condensed, so this car (and the successor cars we are more familiar with) had to be really beefy.

Somewhere I found plans for this car from an article in a 1940s modeling book. Sadly, I can't find same. I probably threw them away because I would never have a use for a car like this. I remember that the tanks were turned from hardwood dowels on a lathe.

The car carries U.S. Army Quartermaster markings. What would the Army do with helium, you ask. Weather balloons come to mind.

My 1958 ORER does not show any USQX cars. All Department of the Army cars are listed as USAX, and I find no helium cars listed. There are lot of specialty tank cars in small lots carrying some pretty sinister-sounding chemicals like chlorine and white phosphorus. Nor are any helium cars listed for the Navy under USNX (curious, because the Navy was still flying blimps at that time). All the helium cars I could find are listed under MAHX reporting marks for the Bureau of Mines Activity, Amarillo, Texas. They list 3 cars at 182,500 cu. ft. and a 14000 capacity, which might be the former Quartermaster cars. All the rest are over 200,000 feet and have a 20000 capacity, which are probably variations on the cars with which we are familiar as once offered by AHM.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 5/13/19 10:22 PM, Allen Rueter via Groups.Io wrote:
even more freight cars by
searching the Herald Review for  just Wabash
there's helium cars from 1931
--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO


This is a link to forty-five photos of the Wabash yards from the files of the Decatur Herald-Review:

https://herald-review.com/gallery/history/photos-wabash-yards/collection_4a3092b0-b124-5ed7-be01-e860c79d42d4.html

Mostly long shots. Some photos are dated and some show freight cars with fair detail.

-
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Photos: Wabash

Allen Rueter
 

even more freight cars by
searching the Herald Review for  just Wabash
there's helium cars from 1931
--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO


This is a link to forty-five photos of the Wabash yards from the files of the Decatur Herald-Review:

https://herald-review.com/gallery/history/photos-wabash-yards/collection_4a3092b0-b124-5ed7-be01-e860c79d42d4.html

Mostly long shots. Some photos are dated and some show freight cars with fair detail.

-
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Describing your hobby

Paul Woods <paul@...>
 

Beg pardon, Chaps, but the list owner has already requested that any discussion not pertaining to this group's stated purpose, (i.e. steam era freight cars), stop immediately.  I fully support that view; I subscribed to this group to learn about North American freight cars, not read banal waffle by a bunch of people whom I don't know.  Before anyone says 'That's what the delete button is for', I will point out that it still uses up time to wade through these irrelevant messages (over 25 messages!) that shouldn't be there in the first place according to the rules of this group, and at the same time refer you to Mike's post on May 11 asking you to desist.

Cheers
Paul


Re: Describing your hobby

Dave Nelson
 

“3D modeling for computer games, specifically train simulators.”  That usually ends the discussion.  If it doesn’t I’ll add “Mostly architectural models but sometimes freight cars” and “I also design and build entire routes for the simulator, such as Oakland to Sacramento and  downtown Chicago”.

 

I don’t usually get another question after that.

 

Dave Nelson

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of John Riddell
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2019 2:51 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Describing your hobby

 

Guys, 
when someone asks you what is your hobby, what do you answer ? Or how do you briefly describe your hobby to a "layman" ?


Re: Photos: Wabash Decatur Yards

Jim Gates
 

Anheuser Busch came to that conclusion, their name did not appear on any cars in the immediate post-prohibition period, eventually even changing their beer bottle green color on the St' Louis Refrigerator line cars. But it seems like everyone else, except maybe Coors, big and small, tried to plaster their names on as many cars as possible during the 1934-1937 period, when the ICC rules went into effect. Miller even put their logo on some cars in the 60s when the interpretation was relaxed.

Jim Gates
--------------------------------------------

On Sun, 5/12/19, Dennis Storzek <destorzek@mchsi.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photos: Wabash Decatur Yards
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Date: Sunday, May 12, 2019, 6:30 PM

On Sun, May 12, 2019 at
08:57 AM, Bob Chaparro wrote:

Photo #21 shows a billboard Schlitz car but it
does not appear to be a reefer.
Beer didn't need icing, so beer cars were usually ARA
class RB, Refrigerator, Bunkerless. Eventually the brewers
came to the realization that putting their logo on the car
was akin to posting a COME STEAL ME sign.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Photos: Wabash Decatur Yards

bill woelfel
 

Guys, scroll around this website, there  are lots of great photos on all kinds of RR  subjects, and various local roads.   A really great find!  Bill Woelfel


Re: Photos: Wabash Decatur Yards

Tony Thompson
 

The cars were insulated (by the standard of the time) and ice blocks were inside the car.
Tony Thompson 


On May 12, 2019, at 5:30 PM, Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...> wrote:

On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 08:57 AM, Bob Chaparro wrote:
Photo #21 shows a billboard Schlitz car but it does not appear to be a reefer.
Beer didn't need icing, so beer cars were usually ARA class RB, Refrigerator, Bunkerless. Eventually the brewers came to the realization that putting their logo on the car was akin to posting a COME STEAL ME sign.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Photos: Wabash Decatur Yards

Dennis Storzek
 

On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 08:57 AM, Bob Chaparro wrote:
Photo #21 shows a billboard Schlitz car but it does not appear to be a reefer.
Beer didn't need icing, so beer cars were usually ARA class RB, Refrigerator, Bunkerless. Eventually the brewers came to the realization that putting their logo on the car was akin to posting a COME STEAL ME sign.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Describing your hobby

Gary Patrik
 

yes indeed. why hide it?


On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 5:39 PM Rod Miller <rod@...> wrote:
I just tell them I have the model railroading disease which
is extremely contagious and fortunately has no cure.

--
Rod Miller
Handcraftsman
===
Custom 2-rail O Scale Models: Drives,
Repairs, Steam Loco Building, More
http://www.rodmiller.com





--
Best regards,
Gary Patrik

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