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Re: M&StL cars

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

At 08:07 AM 3/17/01 -0600, you wrote:
Tim,
The slide I sent was of course a dup (how many originals are floating
around). Because of that Sam Clarke of Kadee thought the color was not
true.
Just curious, did you deal at all with Larry Edwards? He
seems like a more reasonable fellow...

FYI the M-K-T red car they did was a bit off -- the color
was too deep a red, based on the prototype cars I've seen.
Perhaps they looked that red the day they were delivered,
and then faded immediately. But the model they did was not
of a brand new car!

Just send him pictures of M&StL diesels. Same color. Good
luck!

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Marlborough, Massachusetts

Re: M&StL cars

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

Tim,
The slide I sent was of course a dup (how many originals are floating
around). Because of that Sam Clarke of Kadee thought the color was not true.
The car in the slide is a very brilliant red, I had quoted an M&StL
publication in an earlier correspondence to him that they called the cars
"fire engine red". He thought the slide color was not "fire engine red".
I looked at the photo you mentioned in NWL, I sent an 8x10 of it in the
info packet too.
It is one of my quest to do models of as many M&StL freight cars as I can
find photos of. Some of the second hand box cars they rebuilt before WWII are
quite interesting.
Thanks for your interest,
Clark

Tim O'Connor wrote:

Clark,

Questioned the authenticity??? Was it airbrushed or something? I
am very surprised Kadee is being so nitpicky about the color too.
Many of their cars seem to be pretty far off the mark, or they
represent the cars with faded or darkened paint, sometime after
they were originally built.

Oh well, the M&StL only had a few 40' PS-1 box cars, and you can
get excellent decals for the red cars from Mark Vaughan. Des
Plaines Hobbies carries them. Got a paint booth?

At 04:17 PM 3/16/01 -0600, you wrote:
Tim,

I've sent them several photos and slides of the PS1's that were taken
in the 70's. I even sent a slide of other type box car that was freshly
painted. They questioned the authenticity of the slide. I did send the
stenciling diagrams for the 50' cars.

I don't see the big deal, they've screwed up the color on the two CGW
DF cars they did. That's why I thought with the information I could
furnish the cars would be a piece of cake.

Clark
Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


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Re: M&StL cars

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Clark,

Questioned the authenticity??? Was it airbrushed or something? I
am very surprised Kadee is being so nitpicky about the color too.
Many of their cars seem to be pretty far off the mark, or they
represent the cars with faded or darkened paint, sometime after
they were originally built.

Oh well, the M&StL only had a few 40' PS-1 box cars, and you can
get excellent decals for the red cars from Mark Vaughan. Des
Plaines Hobbies carries them. Got a paint booth?


At 04:17 PM 3/16/01 -0600, you wrote:
Tim,

I've sent them several photos and slides of the PS1's that were taken
in the 70's. I even sent a slide of other type box car that was freshly
painted. They questioned the authenticity of the slide. I did send the
stenciling diagrams for the 50' cars.

I don't see the big deal, they've screwed up the color on the two CGW
DF cars they did. That's why I thought with the information I could
furnish the cars would be a piece of cake.

Clark
Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Marlborough, Massachusetts

Re: M&StL cars

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

Tim,
I've sent them several photos and slides of the PS1's that were taken in
the 70's. I even sent a slide of other type box car that was freshly painted.
They questioned the authenticity of the slide. I did send the stenciling
diagrams for the 50' cars.
I don't see the big deal, they've screwed up the color on the two CGW DF
cars they did. That's why I thought with the information I could furnish the
cars would be a piece of cake.
Clark
Tim O'Connor wrote:

I have one more request. I'm trying to get Kadee to do the M&StL 40'
and 50' PS1's, but they are hung up on what shade of red to use on the
car sides. They want a photo of the cars when they were newish. Can
anyone help me, please.
Clark, I am certain they were the same color red as was used on
M&StL locomotives at that time. There are plenty of color photos
of the engines.

There is a good b/w photo of one of the 2700 series PS-1 boxcars
in Volume 20, #3 of the C&NW Hist Soc magazine. If Kadee needs a
lettering guide, that is...

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


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Re: ACL K-7... easier question

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

Ted,
I have a photo with the 90606 in it, is this the car you're looking for?
Unfortunately the photo is blurry (maybe if you drink enough it would come
into focus?) I used the Ertl car, painted in black, and lettered it with
alphabets.
Clark

ted_culotta@... wrote:

Since it appears that there are no 1940's era photos of these in
anybody's possession, here is an easier question. Does anyone know
whether these cars were black, box car red, or both and if both, at
what timeframe was the change made? To refresh the memory, these are
the low-side ACL gons modeled by F&C and Ertl (although incorrectly
in the case of Ertl, I seem to remember hearing).

Thanks.

Ted Culotta


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Re: ACL K-7... easier question

byronrose@...
 

On Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:05:44 -0000 ted_culotta@... writes:
Since it appears that there are no 1940's era photos of these in
anybody's possession, here is an easier question. Does anyone know
whether these cars were black, box car red, or both and if both, at
what timeframe was the change made? To refresh the memory, these
are
the low-side ACL gons modeled by F&C and Ertl (although incorrectly
in the case of Ertl, I seem to remember hearing).

Thanks.

Ted Culotta
Hi Ted,

I recently acquired 3 b&w ACL K-7 gon photos from Bobs Photos, 91142,
91425, and 91526. The first is coupled to a newly painted crane and
looks lighter than the obviously black crane. The other two are in
revenue service and appear more like black than the box cars in other
photos I also got. There aren't enough other cars in the shots to be
able to say for sure, but I'd go with black myself.

I do know that the ACL painted their flat cars black (it was the only one
of my own kits that I painted), so it's seems logical that they also
painted their gons black.

Or you can do what I've seen other modelers do when they weren't sure;
paint the car a heavily weathered box car red-black. Then it could be
either color. And in fact, was.

BTW, Bob has a very large quantity of ACL photos in his recently acquired
batch of freight car photos. Well over 100 I'd say, although many are in
M/W service. OTOH, many others are virginal watermelon cars or wood car
rebuilds, both fishbelly and straight centersill types.
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Re: Tichy freight cars

byronrose@...
 

On Fri, 16 Mar 2001 09:04:30 -0500 "Tim O'Connor"
<timoconnor@...> writes:

But IMO the Tichy USRA hopper is a thing of beauty, the reefers are
very nice, and the Brownhoist crane is simply amazing.
While I agree with you on the crane, I can't get past the two widened
center panels of the hopper car, and that one's on Don, not Bill.

The crane is a absolute thing of beauty. I'd give anything for a similar
kit of a 200-250 ton late steam crane with that same level of detail.
Asking for working outriggers would be too much to ask for, but it sure
would be the icing on the cake wouldn't it. The error that Bill Gould
committed with the crane was purely financial; while it was reasonable
to expect some modelers to buy 2 or 3 or 5 revenue cars, how many would
buy more than one crane? Especially one with thousand of teeny-tiny
parts? Hmm, I guess that 250 ton crane would need millions of parts
then, wouldn't it?

BSR
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Re: Ancient Tank Cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

Allen, I haven't yet had time to put together data for a "plain Jane" tank
car decal set, but I do have one piece of good news, which is that Ron
Sebastian at Des Plaines Hobbies in Illinois is reported to have authentic
GATX letters and numbers in digital form. I haven't been able to contact
him directly, but I will do so early next week. As I understand it, he can
supply this material on a computer disc. More later.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

ACL K-7... easier question

ted_culotta@...
 

Since it appears that there are no 1940's era photos of these in
anybody's possession, here is an easier question. Does anyone know
whether these cars were black, box car red, or both and if both, at
what timeframe was the change made? To refresh the memory, these are
the low-side ACL gons modeled by F&C and Ertl (although incorrectly
in the case of Ertl, I seem to remember hearing).

Thanks.

Ted Culotta

Re: Tichy freight cars

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Byron Rose wrote

The postscript to this is that every once in a while I wander into a
little hobby shop tucked away in the corner of some small town and
there's half dozen Gould kits just sitting in the shelf gathering dust.
Well, maybe one shop, but it was within the last 2-3 years.
Well, I just want it known for the record that it was an assembled and
painted Tichy PFE reefer that rekindled my long dormant interest in
fine scale modeling about 11-12 years ago. At that time there was no
Proto2000, Sunshine, Intermountain, or Red Caboose, and Walthers only
offered recycled Train Miniature kits.

Come to think of it, I don't think I bought any Tichy kits from that
hobby shop (the Orange Caboose in Maynard MA, now closed) since he was
asking list price for them...

But IMO the Tichy USRA hopper is a thing of beauty, the reefers are
very nice, and the Brownhoist crane is simply amazing.

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Marlborough, Massachusetts

Re: Overland tank car

Richard Hendrickson
 

So was this a model of a ICC-104 type car or something else? I've never
grasped an understanding of the differences in this car classification.
That's because it's difficult to grasp; Chris Barkan and I have
communicated at some length about this and come to the conclusion that the
only difference between insulated ARA-III/ICC-103 tank cars and ARA
IV/ICC-104 tank cars was that the IV/104s were built with insulation. So
you can take your choice; in the steam era there was no essential
difference in specifications, safety valves, etc.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

Re: M&StL cars

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

I have one more request. I'm trying to get Kadee to do the M&StL 40'
and 50' PS1's, but they are hung up on what shade of red to use on the
car sides. They want a photo of the cars when they were newish. Can
anyone help me, please.
Clark, I am certain they were the same color red as was used on
M&StL locomotives at that time. There are plenty of color photos
of the engines.

There is a good b/w photo of one of the 2700 series PS-1 boxcars
in Volume 20, #3 of the C&NW Hist Soc magazine. If Kadee needs a
lettering guide, that is...

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Marlborough, Massachusetts

Re: Overland tank car

Dave & Libby Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

AC&F built a number of cars for SHPX in the late 1930s which were dead
ringers for the model except that they did not have platforms and
railings. Some were leased to Matheson and assigned to caustic soda
service.

I'm led to understand caustic soda was commonly used in canneries for
cleaning. Dunno about a whole carload tho....

So was this a model of a ICC-104 type car or something else? I've never
grasped an understanding of the differences in this car classification.

Dave Nelson

Re: Prototype Modelers Seminar Report?

Jeff Aley - GCD PE <jaley@...>
 

On Mar 12, 7:29pm, Benjamin Hom wrote:
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Prototype Modelers Seminar Report?
Jeff Aley wrote:

"Certainly UP supports STEAM-ERA history better than any other existing
Class 1 [partially on-topic]."

So long as it's UP's OWN steam-era history! You don't see a whole lot
of
history about C&NW, M-K-T, MP, WP, or SP, except the odd reference to
them
in the names of UP's vintage passenger car fleet.
True enough. But my statement still stands. Though the UP does not
preserve history as well as the Smithsonian Institution, they do a better
job than the other Class 1 railroads.

Regards,

-Jeff

--
Jeff Aley, Development Engineer jaley@...
Graphics Components Division
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533

Re: M&StL cars

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

Richard,
Unfortunately the jpeg didn't transfer in the group format. Could you please
send
it to my e-mail address. I'm curious to see how badly I've screwed the model
up!
cepropst@...
I appreciate your effort,
Clark

Richard Hendrickson wrote:

Clark, here's the scan of the M&StL stock car. The print was greatly
enlarged from a small part of a negative in Stan Kistler's collection, so
it leaves a lot to be desired, but anything's better than nothing. I hope
it proves helpful.

----------

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520




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Re: M&StL cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

Clark, here's the scan of the M&StL stock car. The print was greatly
enlarged from a small part of a negative in Stan Kistler's collection, so
it leaves a lot to be desired, but anything's better than nothing. I hope
it proves helpful.

----------

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

Re: UTLX tank cars

byronrose@...
 

On Tue, 13 Mar 2001 08:50:34 -0800 Richard Hendrickson
<rhendrickson@...> writes:

<snip>

As
for kits like the Gould/Tichy cars, with all those little pieces
that have
to be assembled and then - saints preserve us! - painted and
lettered, I
happened to be in a large hobby shop in Southern Calif. when the
Gould tank
car first came out. A modeler whose name is still regarded with
great
reverence by the NMRA crowd came into the store to see what was new
and the
owner handed him a Gould tank car kit. He opened the box, looked at
all
those itty bitty styrene parts, blanched visibly, and blurted out,
"Oh, I
could never build anything like that!" That was a long time ago,
but, if
anything, there are more "model railroaders" like him today than
there ever
were.
The postscript to this is that every once in a while I wander into a
little hobby shop tucked away in the corner of some small town and
there's half dozen Gould kits just sitting in the shelf gathering dust.
Well, maybe one shop, but it was within the last 2-3 years.

BSR
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Re: Overland tank car

Richard Hendrickson
 

-----Original Message-----
Dave, if you'll e-mail me the details of your modeling location and era, I
can probably send you scans of several likely prototypes. But finding
lettering for some of them may be a challenge! I've got at least one of
the models, too, so maybe we can either brainstorm decal sources or get
some decals made which will do the job.
I bounce back and forth between 2 dates: 1944 and 1950. I bounce back &
forth between 2 locations: WP west of Oroville (right now I'm thinking
Oakland, perhaps to Niles) and DRGW east of Salt Lake (centered on the
Geneva Mill near Provo). Either way some representation of the steel
industry will be included.
I'm having a little trouble following the bouncing ball, here, but you've
at least given me a ball-park era and region.

AC&F built a number of cars for SHPX in the late 1930s which were dead
ringers for the model except that they did not have platforms and railings.
Some were leased to Matheson and assigned to caustic soda service. SHPX
also had 8K gal. insulated Type 27s with platforms and railings built in
the late '30s/early '40s which were leased to DuPont and used for things
like Formaldehyde and Nylon Salts, though these were ICC-203s with
different safety valves than are on the model. The DuPont cars had black
u/fs and bottom sheathing, light gray upper sheathing and domes, and
red/white oval DuPont logos.

ICC-104s without dome platforms wre built in the early 1940s for Warren,
but I rather doubt that Warren was shipping gasoline to the west coast
(though their ICC-105 propane cars certainly made it to the Bay Area).

I can send you JPEGs of any or all of the above if you're interested.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

M&StL cars

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

Thank you Richard,

I would very much like it if you could scan the 72017 for me. When I
said my photos of these cars were in-consist I meant in-consist. Like a
going away shot of a train with a stock car three or four cars up from
the caboose! My father was an engineer for the railroad, his rule #1
was "never put a stock car next to the crummy".

I'm thinking the URTX reefers were rebuilt in 1955. They were first
painted with 'The Peoria Gateway' slogan, then some were repainted in
the post 56 scheme.

I have one more request. I'm trying to get Kadee to do the M&StL 40'
and 50' PS1's, but they are hung up on what shade of red to use on the
car sides. They want a photo of the cars when they were newish. Can
anyone help me, please.

Thanks again,
Clark

Re: Email address change

Richard Hendrickson
 

To communicate with me, please start using the following email
address in place of any old ones you may have for me.

ted_culotta@...
Roger that. Good to see you this weekend. Come visit us in Ashland.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520