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Re: Manufacturers Railway Mather box

Dennis Storzek
 

On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 06:00 AM, mopacfirst wrote:
But I thought those were channels (C-sections) on the diagonals, not Z-sections like a "normal" single-sheathed box had.
Mather was remarkably consistent with the details of their car framing over the years; those channel section diagonals is one of the spotting features. Others were the use of round rod stock for sill steps, and their patented panel roof, which looked for all the world like a series of inverted baking pans.

Dennis Storzek 
Re: this nice shot of the GM&O freight house

Benjamin Hom
 

Claus Schlund wrote: 
"I noticed a second example of this at the link below...



Notice how freight cars have great access to both sides of the loading platforms, but there is no good way to get a truck in there."

That's becuase the frieght house isn't designed for trucks to directly load from individual boxcars.  LCL would be unloaded and processed in the freight house, then reconsolidated in other cars for forwarding or loaded onto trucks for local delivery at a dedicated truck platform.

Cars on the center track between platforms would be serviced via bridge plates from cars spotted at the platforms on either side.


Ben Hom
Re: this nice shot of the GM&O freight house

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List members,
 
Thanks everyone who replied, I think I have a better understanding now.
 
I noticed a second example of this at the link below...
 
 
Notice how freight cars have great access to both sides of the loading platforms, but there is no good way to get a truck in there.
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 

----- Original Message -----
To: STMFC
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2019 7:34 PM
Subject: this nice shot of the GM&O freight house

Hi List Members,
 
Consider for a moment this nice shot of the GM&O freight house surrounded by steam era freight cars...
 
 
I have a question about how this all works regarding delivery of goods to the customer. Freight cars get parked here, they are unloaded into the freight house by fork lift or hand truck or elbow grease, right? Then what? How does the customer get their goods? Presumably they show up wuth their comapny truck (or in earlier days, with their horse-drawn cart). But I don't see any good street access to the building. Is it on the side of the building we cannot see? I'm thinking maybe not, since there are probably tracks there.
 
This is not the first time I've seen freight houses with what appears to be inadequate or non-existant street access. How was this handled? Presumably every inbound carload of items that goes INTO the freight house has to leave as well, and it's not leaving in a freight car, right?
 
Thoughts?
 
Overall, if you omit the large yard in the background, and included only the three tracks in the foreground with the building, a scene like this is very model-genic, and could serve as the focal point of a very nice switching layout or a fun area of activity within a larger layout.
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
Re: this nice shot of the GM&O freight house

William Hirt
 

For those that have been to Kansas City, 12th Street from Downtown into the West Bottoms (where the GM&O freight house was) was and is a double deck viaduct. The photo is looking southwest from the top level of the viaduct. The tracks seen on the southwest side of the freight house did not continue to the west side of the freight house (except for one which was far enough west to allow truck access). Access was from surface level below 12th Street to the west side for trucks etc. The roof seen on the lower left corner of the image is the Frisco freight house. The CB&Q freight house was 3-4 blocks west at 12th and Mulberry Street and the ATSF Freight House at 13th and Hickory Street.

The tracks in the background on the west side of the freight house: GM&O nearest, then SLSF, the KCT, and then the remaining half the tracks belonging to the CB&Q. Prior to the CB&Q building Murray Yard in North Kansas City, this was part of the area of their primary Kansas City yard. I've seen 1948 maps of the area and it's hard to imagine today how much railroad activity was going on in such a small area. The 1951 flood in the West Bottoms changed it all.

Bill Hirt


On 4/29/2019 6:34 PM, Claus Schlund \(HGM\) wrote:
Hi List Members,
 
Consider for a moment this nice shot of the GM&O freight house surrounded by steam era freight cars...
 
 
I have a question about how this all works regarding delivery of goods to the customer. Freight cars get parked here, they are unloaded into the freight house by fork lift or hand truck or elbow grease, right? Then what? How does the customer get their goods? Presumably they show up wuth their comapny truck (or in earlier days, with their horse-drawn cart). But I don't see any good street access to the building. Is it on the side of the building we cannot see? I'm thinking maybe not, since there are probably tracks there.
 
This is not the first time I've seen freight houses with what appears to be inadequate or non-existant street access. How was this handled? Presumably every inbound carload of items that goes INTO the freight house has to leave as well, and it's not leaving in a freight car, right?
 
Re: grab iron ladders

gtws00
 

In my opinion the .005 brass works OK. Nice thing is that the rungs and stiles all line up and are square. Once the ladder is assembled and mounted it becomes fairly strong and rigid. I use a modified version of your jig as seen on the RCW Blog. I have attached a photo of how I did mine. Kinda of in a hurry this AM when I put this together and did not do a clean shear on the one end. My version of the assembly fixture includes a stop for the flat stile as well as a stop at the top of the fixture that stick up and holds the rung square to the stile. In my sample photos I did not secure with CA , just a mock up for this topic. Also is a photo of a UUM-USA Photo Etch bending tool with a build in bending brake. 
George Toman
Throwback Tuesday: Model Die Casting 40 ft AAR Boxcar, Model Railroader, October 1959

Benjamin Hom
 

Model Die Casting 40 ft AAR Boxcar ad, Model Railroader, October 1959.  Note the "Metal's Better" tagline.


Ben Hom
Re: Manufacturers Railway Mather box

Eric Hansmann
 

Mather produced boxcars with a few different interior heights. There were also some 36-foot Mather boxcars rolling around before 1930. Just because it is labeled as a Mather boxcar, stock car, or reefer does not mean they are all the same. They came from the same builder. IIRC, at one point the AC&Y had two series of Mather boxcars with different interior heights.

 

I suspect the Proto2000 models produced by Life-Like followed prototypes for certain time frames. Mather leased these cars and they were reused after leases expired. The cars returned to the Mather shops for repaint and reletter for the new lessee. You will need to consult the ORER for your modeling period to determine where the Mather cars were used.

 

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of mopacfirst
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2019 8:00 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Manufacturers Railway Mather box

 

I can see an issue on the height, because from looking at the pictures of car bodies from the Proto kits on eBay, they all look the same even though there were some that were quite a bit taller.  I found another good source in an ad for RY models in O scale, and there the cars are separated by height.  The one I'm thinking of is 7'-8" IH, which seemed to be a common height, but others were as high inside as 10'-3" and the model photos of Proto cars seem to show that they're not.

I found the Hendrickson article from August 2003 and unfortunately there is no table attached, but there the photos also seem to show height differences.

But I thought those were channels (C-sections) on the diagonals, not Z-sections like a "normal" single-sheathed box had.

Ron Merrick

Ron Merrick

Re: Manufacturers Railway Mather box

mopacfirst
 

I can see an issue on the height, because from looking at the pictures of car bodies from the Proto kits on eBay, they all look the same even though there were some that were quite a bit taller.  I found another good source in an ad for RY models in O scale, and there the cars are separated by height.  The one I'm thinking of is 7'-8" IH, which seemed to be a common height, but others were as high inside as 10'-3" and the model photos of Proto cars seem to show that they're not.

I found the Hendrickson article from August 2003 and unfortunately there is no table attached, but there the photos also seem to show height differences.

But I thought those were channels (C-sections) on the diagonals, not Z-sections like a "normal" single-sheathed box had.

Ron Merrick

Ron Merrick
Re: this nice shot of the GM&O freight house

william darnaby
 

Interesting shot indeed.  In the lower right corner of the photo there is a Monon High Speed Merchandise Service boxcar.  I had no idea they got so far off line.

 

Bill Darnaby

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2019 6:34 PM
To: STMFC <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] this nice shot of the GM&O freight house

 

Hi List Members,

 

Consider for a moment this nice shot of the GM&O freight house surrounded by steam era freight cars...

 

 

I have a question about how this all works regarding delivery of goods to the customer. Freight cars get parked here, they are unloaded into the freight house by fork lift or hand truck or elbow grease, right? Then what? How does the customer get their goods? Presumably they show up wuth their comapny truck (or in earlier days, with their horse-drawn cart) But I don't see any good street access to the building. Is it on the side of the building we cannot see? I'm thinking maybe not, since there are probably tracks there.

 

This is not the first time I've seen freight houses with what appears to be inadequate or non-existant street access. How was this handled? Presumably every inbound carload of items that goes INTO the freight house has to leave as well, and it's not leaving in a freight car, right?

 

Thoughts?

 

Overall, if you omit the large yard in the background, and included only the three tracks in the foreground with the building, a scene like this is very model-genic, and could serve as the focal point of a very nice switching layout or a fun area of activity within a larger layout.

 

Claus Schlund

 

 
Re: NJI&I Boxcar

Peter Hall
 

Thank you!

Thanks
Pete

On Apr 29, 2019, at 5:47 PM, Garth Groff <sarahsan@...> wrote:

Peter,

I don't know the answer to your question, but it would be quite a while. Each of the two cars chained to the floor would have to be unchained, then worked out with a swiveling jack. Then the two cars in the diagonal racks would be lowered, unchained, and likewise worked out the door with the jack. How long might depend on how many men there were to do tasks simultaneously, but I would expect at least an hour or more per boxcar.

The car in question is a apparently in a parts pool, so the above does not apply. If "GM-1" is correct as was suggested, then it probably means "General Motors pool #1". Likely it had racks for some sort of sub-assemblies, say frames, motors, transmissions, body stampings, etc. The ends on this car mark it as 10' IH. This number does not show in my 1958 ORER, and likely post-dates our period, at least as an NJI&I-lettered car.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 4/29/19 5:03 PM, Peter Hall wrote:
Just out of curiosity, how long would it take to load or unload autos into or out of an automobile box car equipped with auto racks, in the 1945-1950 era?

Thanks
Pete

On Apr 29, 2019, at 12:48 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Either an appliance or automobile parts pool assignment. Usually a good indicator that the
car has special equipment or loading devices - could be as simple as pallets that stayed with
the car. In the auto industry the pool assignment stencils were frequently changed.

Tim O'Connor


On 4/29/2019 4:23 AM, Garth Groff wrote:
Friends,

While skimming through the Ed Wilkommen photos, I noted this view which included an NJI&I boxcar: https://www.lakestatesarchive.org/Ed-Wilkommen-Collection/Freight-Cars/i-r5ZmB9k/A . Besides being a rather rare roadname in its own right, I was struck by the initials above the reporting marks. They look like "GN-I" or GH-I". Any comments about what they mean?

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts



Re: CNW gondola underside / L&N coke boxcar

rwitt_2000
 

I caught this one, L&N 30658, in Waukesha, Wisconsin. I believe the City coal gas plant was still active in the early 1960s.

Bob Witt

P.S. It look like my photo is fading away ...
Re: Manufacturers Railway Mather box

Chuck Cover
 

The Proto models do not have the Z-braces for the diagonals and I am not sure that they accurately model the correct height.  Buyer beware.

Chuck Cover
Santa Fe, NM
Re: this nice shot of the GM&O freight house

David Soderblom
 

An interesting detail:  the cars are aligned side to side, but spaced apart, requiring each one to be decoupled.

There would have been good access for carts and trucks on the opposite side. It depends: a transfer house would not have had that because freight was being transferred and forwarded.  A freight house would have a street side for delivery to local customers.




David Soderblom
Baltimore MD USA
drs@..., 410-338-4543
Re: this nice shot of the GM&O freight house

Tim O'Connor
 


They are very common on the prototype, because they're cheaper to build. But they don't
work for models unless we model in P:48, or P:87, P: whatever


On 4/29/2019 8:46 PM, David Wiggs wrote:
One thing I did notice, is that on the far side of the freight house, the switches have self guarding frogs; no guard rails on them; at least on those closest to the station.  The one on the near side appears to have them.  I've seen the same thing in photos of the old ACL yard in South Rocky Mount, NC.  I wonder how prevalent this phenomenom is?
 
Davo in Orlando


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Re: this nice shot of the GM&O freight house

David Wiggs
 

One thing I did notice, is that on the far side of the freight house, the switches have self guarding frogs; no guard rails on them; at least on those closest to the station.  The one on the near side appears to have them.  I've seen the same thing in photos of the old ACL yard in South Rocky Mount, NC.  I wonder how prevalent this phenomenom is?
 
Davo in Orlando
Re: this nice shot of the GM&O freight house

Michael Aufderheide
 

Claus,

Responses from others in the group have accounted for access, but it also might be that this was an LCL transfer facility; goods being moved between rail cars only with no need for access from the street.  There was such a place in the small Indiana junction town I model.  LCL shipments were moved between cars spotted at a roofed platform, with tracks on both sides.  The only access to this place was for pedestrians to enter the office at one end.  The attached photo shows the transfer platform on the left, freight house roof over the cars on the right.  Packages from mail order retailers like Sears/Roebuck would arrive in rail cars at this location and be distributed to cars for Atlanta, Birmingham, Charlotte, Louisville etc. There was also an adjacent freight house that was completely separate for originating and arriving local shipments.  

Regards,

Mike Aufderheide
Re: CNW gondola underside / L&N coke boxcar

Tim O'Connor
 


My Dad just caught the corner of this one in Pueblo, Colorado :-)



On 4/29/2019 8:11 PM, Steven D Johnson wrote:

From L&N series 30550-30699, modified by L&N’s South Louisville Shops in 1958-1959 from former NC&StL XM30 class boxcars (NC&StL series 18000-18499, built by Pullman-Standard in 1937). 

 

See four attached photos of cars from that series.  See page 80, top photo, in the L&N Color Guide, Volume One (Morning Sun Books) for a photo of #30633, which has coke loaded in the ends and a small pile of old tires in the center section! 

 

Steve Johnson

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2019 1:17 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] CNW gondola underside

 


L&N coke box car. The L&N rebuilt a variety of cars for coke service. My Dad photographed
one in Pueblo Colorado (CF&I Steel) in the late 1960's. They probably also made it to Provo,
to the USS Geneva works. Met coal & coke from east of the Mississippi was a common sight in
Colorado, even to the very end of steel making in Colorado.

Tim O'Connor


On 4/29/2019 1:26 PM, Brian Termunde via Groups.Io wrote:

Some nice stuff on the site. You can click on the "X" in the upper right to get to thumbnails of the photos.

 

In doing so, I came across one car and I was wondering if it is the prototype of Walthers "Jailbox" car?

 

https://www.lakestatesarchive.org/Ed-Wilkommen-Collection/Freight-Cars/i-6Mf2Vm5/A

And Thanks for sharing the link Gary!

 

Take Care,

 

Brian R. Termunde

Midvale, Utah

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Re: Cornel University collection

David Soderblom
 

More than track work, that is a scene worth modeling: mud, uneven ties, ruts, grunge between the rails, ...

David Soderblom
Baltimore MD USA
drs@stsci.edu, 410-338-4543
Re: this nice shot of the GM&O freight house

Tim O'Connor
 


Hub, and Spoke.

Some freight houses dealt largely with interline sorting, as well as
local (more or less random destinations) sorting for further destinations.


On 4/29/2019 7:34 PM, Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) wrote:
Hi List Members,
 
Consider for a moment this nice shot of the GM&O freight house surrounded by steam era freight cars...
 
 
I have a question about how this all works regarding delivery of goods to the customer. Freight cars get parked here, they are unloaded into the freight house by fork lift or hand truck or elbow grease, right? Then what? How does the customer get their goods? Presumably they show up wuth their comapny truck (or in earlier days, with their horse-drawn cart). But I don't see any good street access to the building. Is it on the side of the building we cannot see? I'm thinking maybe not, since there are probably tracks there.
 
This is not the first time I've seen freight houses with what appears to be inadequate or non-existant street access. How was this handled? Presumably every inbound carload of items that goes INTO the freight house has to leave as well, and it's not leaving in a freight car, right?
 
Thoughts?
 
Overall, if you omit the large yard in the background, and included only the three tracks in the foreground with the building, a scene like this is very model-genic, and could serve as the focal point of a very nice switching layout or a fun area of activity within a larger layout.
 
Claus Schlund
 
 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Freight Car Guru

WILLIAM PARDIE
 





Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: pardiew001 <pardiew001@...>
Date: 4/29/19 2:03 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Freight Car Guru


Has anyone stepped up to be the Union Pacific Freight Car Guru since Terry Metcalf left us?  It has been quite a while but he certainly bought a lot of knowledge and passion to the table.

Biil Pardie


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
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