Date   

Re: F&C B&M XM1

Clark Propst
 

Beings you like to talk about these cars Mike. Why don't you give a talk on the virtual RPM sometime? Great info BTW
Clark Propst


Re: Photo: HERX (Hershey) Insulated Boxcar Or Reefer (1960)

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Erie (or anyone) can you read a car number on that image?

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Hansmann
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 1:26 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: HERX (Hershey) Insulated Boxcar Or Reefer (1960)

 

I don’t have any data on the evolving Hershey house car fleet. I did see this 1935 image recently that features a starkly different looking Hershey car in a Pittsburgh team yard.

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A715.3525839.CP

 


Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 11:51 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: HERX (Hershey) Insulated Boxcar Or Reefer (1960)

 

Photo: HERX (Hershey) Insulated Boxcar Or Reefer (1960)

A photo from the Cornell University Digital Collections:

https://library.artstor.org/#/asset/SS7731920_7731920_12131678;prevRouteTS=1601223980809

This is a partial view of the car and it is reversed.

What is known about the Hershey fleet up to this date?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: F&C B&M XM1

Mark Rossiter
 

Mike, thanks for the comprehensive history of these cars.  I am a sucker for box cars of smaller, lesser known roads.  The fact that some WAG cars roamed the country really flats my boat!  Thanks again!

 

Mark Rossiter

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: Photo: HERX (Hershey) Insulated Boxcar Or Reefer (1960)

Eric Hansmann
 

I don’t have any data on the evolving Hershey house car fleet. I did see this 1935 image recently that features a starkly different looking Hershey car in a Pittsburgh team yard.

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A715.3525839.CP

 


Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 11:51 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: HERX (Hershey) Insulated Boxcar Or Reefer (1960)

 

Photo: HERX (Hershey) Insulated Boxcar Or Reefer (1960)

A photo from the Cornell University Digital Collections:

https://library.artstor.org/#/asset/SS7731920_7731920_12131678;prevRouteTS=1601223980809

This is a partial view of the car and it is reversed.

What is known about the Hershey fleet up to this date?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: HERX (Hershey) Insulated Boxcar Or Reefer (1960)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: HERX (Hershey) Insulated Boxcar Or Reefer (1960)

A photo from the Cornell University Digital Collections:

https://library.artstor.org/#/asset/SS7731920_7731920_12131678;prevRouteTS=1601223980809

This is a partial view of the car and it is reversed.

What is known about the Hershey fleet up to this date?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: PRM - Vol 5

Kenneth Montero
 

Ken,

Ron's Books (https://www.ronsbooks.com/ ) and Pro Custom Hobbies in Sykesville, Maryland (email at  procustomhobbies@... ,  tel. 410-459-9169, closed Mondays) had this book for sale. I don't know if they have any copies left.

Ken Montero

On 09/28/2020 8:05 AM Ken O'Brien <kobrien1600@...> wrote:


Will there be additional runs of this book. I missed the initial announcement.

Ken O'Brien


Re: PRM - Vol 5

Ken O'Brien
 

Will there be additional runs of this book. I missed the initial announcement.

Ken O'Brien


PRM - Vol 5

James Brewer
 

My copy of Ted's latest journal arrived last week and I had some time during the Hindsight breaks yesterday and today to review; another excellent work by a superb modeler.

Loads of prototype and modeling information and details; there are projects for all levels from beginner to advanced modeler.  Want to try a resin kit or kitbash? There is something here for you. Ted describes many of his techniques in a clear and concise manner.

If you haven't already gotten your copy you can find it here:


Jim Brewer


Re: Photo: Scrap Loads In Gondolas (1955)

william darnaby
 

One of the very last things I did before retiring from EMD was to wander out back in the yard with a coffee can and scoop up some machining turnings or chips, as they were called, for my scrap loads.  They were pre-weathered with rust and I use them as loose loads in my gons.  Repeated pouring and dumping them out of the gons also has the benefit nicely weathering the gon interiors.

Bill Darnaby

On Sunday, September 27, 2020, 02:43:25 PM CDT, Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:


Bob Chaparro wrote:

Photo: Scrap Loads In Gondolas (1955)
A photo from the Hagley Digital Archives:
Scroll on the postcard to enlarge it.
It appears that each row of cars is filled with the same type of scrap...possibly presorted? 

    Absolutely. There were many grades of scrap, and value depended on grade. Particularly post-production scrap was easy to segregate and many loads depict that. (Not the modeler's favorite load with a complete automobile on top.)

Tony Thompson




Re: Photo: GATX 31197 & 54877 At DuPont Plant (1940)

Tangent Scale Models
 

Bob,

This is a great link, thank you for sharing it.  I know this is not your doing, but the 1940 date however is incorrect.  The 10,000 gallon tank on the right was likely built in late 1951 or 1952.  That car is typical of construction for hydrogen peroxide tanks built that same year - welded underframe, safety manway above the tank.  Because the tank is fresh, 1951/1952 would be the earliest date for that photo.

Best wishes,

David Lehlbach


Re: Photo: Scrap Loads In Gondolas (1955)

Tony Thompson
 

Bob Chaparro wrote:

Photo: Scrap Loads In Gondolas (1955)
A photo from the Hagley Digital Archives:
Scroll on the postcard to enlarge it.
It appears that each row of cars is filled with the same type of scrap...possibly presorted? 

    Absolutely. There were many grades of scrap, and value depended on grade. Particularly post-production scrap was easy to segregate and many loads depict that. (Not the modeler's favorite load with a complete automobile on top.)

Tony Thompson




Re: F&C B&M XM1

Douglas Harding
 

Here is a scan of the entire Jim Sands photo, showing both the WAG and FDDMS boxcars being discussed. The original slide is part of my collection. Many of Jim Sands freight car photos were shot in Marshalltown IA in 1966-68.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Schleigh Mike via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 10:31 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] F&C B&M XM1

 

Hello Group!

 

Allow me to dispel some misconceptions and set aside speculation about the XM-1 on the Salzberg roads.  First, the FtDDM&S was the first to receive these cars into their 10000-10099 series which reached at least 99 cars before the end of the decade.  This began in September of 1956.  Clarke's model was inspired by a photo of their 10007 taken after the date (1962?) of the 'uprating' of solid bearings another 10% nominal load capacity.  This car somehow escaped the changeover to the Youngstown door that replaced that rare "car builder's door" delivered with the original B&M 71000 collection.  This must have been a rare car in 1956 as the conventional wisdom is that these doors were all gone much earlier.

 

The WAG in turn began receiving their cars in the spring of 1958.  These were placed into a series beginning with 5000 and reached 150 by 1960.  Interestingly the cars for both roads were reconditioned including stenciling and reweighing at the B&M's Concord, New Hampshire shop receiving that location's "DS" marking.  The WAG was incorporated in 1954 but did not begin operations until the first day of 1956.  A common misconception is that the WAG cars were used extensively in green hide service.  I have found only one example of this.  These cars on both the Fort Dodge and WAG were XM roamers intended to earn their masters per diem income.  Indeed, the two cars in the Jim Sands photo from 1966 display 'used' grain doors indicating high quality XM service.  The full scope photo shows that the WAG car is 5240 which entered service on the road in 1965.  Note the newer cleaner paint.  This car is from the original B&M 72000 series with the exposed roof 'ribs.'  The Fort Dodge car is from the first group (71000) with the plain roof.  Rest assured that the roofs were not swapped around.  The Salzbergs were too frugal to ever do that.

 

The WAG 5240 is part of the second and final wave received of these cars.  However, by this time the B&M no longer owned them and they came instead from Hyman-Michaels (and possibly International Railway Car Company).  These companies bought 1300 cars from the total B&M 71000-72999 group and leased them back to that RR.  This accounts for the renumbering that occurred between June 1955 and December 1956.  These last cars eventually brought their WAG population to over 500 cars.  All later cars were instead refurbished at Galeton, Penna.  Many of these were stripped of their running boards and had "A"end ladders cut short.  The WAG XM-1 boxcars were used well past our time of interest last going off-line with loads in June of 1975.

 

The Salzberg family did not swap cars around within the family.  Many cars were refurbished at Galeton for other parts of the family but these were cars purchased for those receiving roads.  Only a handful of service cars and the PS-1s from the Louisiana & Northwest came within the family to the WAG.  My apologies that much of this history came after our time of interest.  It is conceivable that the many WAG cars might have been sent to family members that needed more cars for seasonal loadings such as for grain.

 

Back to the B&M XM-1s.  These cars were an interesting lot for several reasons but one very intriguing is the AB conversion arrangement.  The RR chose to mount the triple valve entirely below the lowest face of the center sill.  This resulted in the device being very prominent in any view across the underside of the car. This seems a very unusual choice given how low the valve, dirt collector, and piping are positioned.  One wonders if this was ever an issue for higher rates of over-the-road damage.  It is a modeling detail worth capturing.

 

Sorry but I like to talk about these cars----Mike Schleigh in Grove City, Penna.

 

On Saturday, September 26, 2020, 04:36:06 PM EDT, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:

 

 

Jack and Ben,

 

Well, I can't say for sure, but it is possible that one of the Salzberg shortlines had a shop that did repair work for the other related lines. Other possibilities are a seasonal traffic surge on one line that required extra cars, or maybe some of the cars were transferred from one line to another and were waiting for relettering. This might require some serious work with an ORER, and probably isn't worth the effort.

 

One other interesting point. This photo is on the Fallen Flags web site, where it is attributed to Jim Sands at Marshaltown, Iowa in 1966. In my 1959 ORER this series of cars only ran from 10000 to 10074. This suggests that car 10094 might not have been on the FDDM&S roster during our period of interest, though others of this class certainly were.

 

Yours Aye,

 

 

Garth Groff  🦆

 

 

On Sat, Sep 26, 2020 at 11:22 AM Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Well, Garth, what IS intriguing is that these two cars happen to be coupled together.  The odds are long . . .

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 5:26 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] F&C B&M XM1

 

Jack,

 

Really nothing intriguing here. The WAG and the FDDM&S were both H.E. Salzburg shortlines (IIRC, WAG in 1954 and FDDM&S in 1956). Both railroads used former B&M XM-1 boxcars, and the Salzburg management reassigned equipment among their various lines as needed.

 

Yours Aye,

 

 

Garth Groff

 

On Sat, Sep 26, 2020 at 3:19 AM Jack Mullen <jack.f.mullen@...> wrote:

On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 12:00 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:

Here's a Jim Sands photo of a car that went to the FDDM&S with a Youngstown door:

The intriguing thing about this photo is that the car to the left is also an ex-B&M XM-1, one that went to the WAG in the mid-'50s. 

Jack Mullen


Photo: PRR Gondola 775459 (1940)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: PRR Gondola 775459 (1940)

A photo from the Hagley Digital Archives:

https://digital.hagley.org/72350_4876_6?solr_nav%5Bid%5D=ffdd6f5eddaf54a3af4f&solr_nav%5Bpage%5D=2&solr_nav%5Boffset%5D=12

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Is that brake wheel a common style?

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Scrap Loads In Gondolas (1955)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Scrap Loads In Gondolas (1955)

A photo from the Hagley Digital Archives:

https://digital.hagley.org/1986268_1_0171?solr_nav%5Bid%5D=208c2a62337c5cb32f2b&solr_nav%5Bpage%5D=0&solr_nav%5Boffset%5D=5

Scroll on the postcard to enlarge it.

It appears that each row of cars is filled with the same type of scrap...possibly presorted? 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: F&C B&M XM1

Schleigh Mike
 

Hello Group!

Allow me to dispel some misconceptions and set aside speculation about the XM-1 on the Salzberg roads.  First, the FtDDM&S was the first to receive these cars into their 10000-10099 series which reached at least 99 cars before the end of the decade.  This began in September of 1956.  Clarke's model was inspired by a photo of their 10007 taken after the date (1962?) of the 'uprating' of solid bearings another 10% nominal load capacity.  This car somehow escaped the changeover to the Youngstown door that replaced that rare "car builder's door" delivered with the original B&M 71000 collection.  This must have been a rare car in 1956 as the conventional wisdom is that these doors were all gone much earlier.

The WAG in turn began receiving their cars in the spring of 1958.  These were placed into a series beginning with 5000 and reached 150 by 1960.  Interestingly the cars for both roads were reconditioned including stenciling and reweighing at the B&M's Concord, New Hampshire shop receiving that location's "DS" marking.  The WAG was incorporated in 1954 but did not begin operations until the first day of 1956.  A common misconception is that the WAG cars were used extensively in green hide service.  I have found only one example of this.  These cars on both the Fort Dodge and WAG were XM roamers intended to earn their masters per diem income.  Indeed, the two cars in the Jim Sands photo from 1966 display 'used' grain doors indicating high quality XM service.  The full scope photo shows that the WAG car is 5240 which entered service on the road in 1965.  Note the newer cleaner paint.  This car is from the original B&M 72000 series with the exposed roof 'ribs.'  The Fort Dodge car is from the first group (71000) with the plain roof.  Rest assured that the roofs were not swapped around.  The Salzbergs were too frugal to ever do that.

The WAG 5240 is part of the second and final wave received of these cars.  However, by this time the B&M no longer owned them and they came instead from Hyman-Michaels (and possibly International Railway Car Company).  These companies bought 1300 cars from the total B&M 71000-72999 group and leased them back to that RR.  This accounts for the renumbering that occurred between June 1955 and December 1956.  These last cars eventually brought their WAG population to over 500 cars.  All later cars were instead refurbished at Galeton, Penna.  Many of these were stripped of their running boards and had "A"end ladders cut short.  The WAG XM-1 boxcars were used well past our time of interest last going off-line with loads in June of 1975.

The Salzberg family did not swap cars around within the family.  Many cars were refurbished at Galeton for other parts of the family but these were cars purchased for those receiving roads.  Only a handful of service cars and the PS-1s from the Louisiana & Northwest came within the family to the WAG.  My apologies that much of this history came after our time of interest.  It is conceivable that the many WAG cars might have been sent to family members that needed more cars for seasonal loadings such as for grain.

Back to the B&M XM-1s.  These cars were an interesting lot for several reasons but one very intriguing is the AB conversion arrangement.  The RR chose to mount the triple valve entirely below the lowest face of the center sill.  This resulted in the device being very prominent in any view across the underside of the car. This seems a very unusual choice given how low the valve, dirt collector, and piping are positioned.  One wonders if this was ever an issue for higher rates of over-the-road damage.  It is a modeling detail worth capturing.

Sorry but I like to talk about these cars----Mike Schleigh in Grove City, Penna.

On Saturday, September 26, 2020, 04:36:06 PM EDT, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:


Jack and Ben,

Well, I can't say for sure, but it is possible that one of the Salzberg shortlines had a shop that did repair work for the other related lines. Other possibilities are a seasonal traffic surge on one line that required extra cars, or maybe some of the cars were transferred from one line to another and were waiting for relettering. This might require some serious work with an ORER, and probably isn't worth the effort.

One other interesting point. This photo is on the Fallen Flags web site, where it is attributed to Jim Sands at Marshaltown, Iowa in 1966. In my 1959 ORER this series of cars only ran from 10000 to 10074. This suggests that car 10094 might not have been on the FDDM&S roster during our period of interest, though others of this class certainly were.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆


On Sat, Sep 26, 2020 at 11:22 AM Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Well, Garth, what IS intriguing is that these two cars happen to be coupled together.  The odds are long . . .

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 5:26 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] F&C B&M XM1

 

Jack,

 

Really nothing intriguing here. The WAG and the FDDM&S were both H.E. Salzburg shortlines (IIRC, WAG in 1954 and FDDM&S in 1956). Both railroads used former B&M XM-1 boxcars, and the Salzburg management reassigned equipment among their various lines as needed.

 

Yours Aye,

 

 

Garth Groff

 

On Sat, Sep 26, 2020 at 3:19 AM Jack Mullen <jack.f.mullen@...> wrote:

On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 12:00 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:

Here's a Jim Sands photo of a car that went to the FDDM&S with a Youngstown door:

The intriguing thing about this photo is that the car to the left is also an ex-B&M XM-1, one that went to the WAG in the mid-'50s. 

Jack Mullen


test

Tony Thompson
 

test

awt


Re: F&C B&M XM1

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Jack and Ben,

Well, I can't say for sure, but it is possible that one of the Salzberg shortlines had a shop that did repair work for the other related lines. Other possibilities are a seasonal traffic surge on one line that required extra cars, or maybe some of the cars were transferred from one line to another and were waiting for relettering. This might require some serious work with an ORER, and probably isn't worth the effort.

One other interesting point. This photo is on the Fallen Flags web site, where it is attributed to Jim Sands at Marshaltown, Iowa in 1966. In my 1959 ORER this series of cars only ran from 10000 to 10074. This suggests that car 10094 might not have been on the FDDM&S roster during our period of interest, though others of this class certainly were.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆


On Sat, Sep 26, 2020 at 11:22 AM Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Well, Garth, what IS intriguing is that these two cars happen to be coupled together.  The odds are long . . .

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 5:26 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] F&C B&M XM1

 

Jack,

 

Really nothing intriguing here. The WAG and the FDDM&S were both H.E. Salzburg shortlines (IIRC, WAG in 1954 and FDDM&S in 1956). Both railroads used former B&M XM-1 boxcars, and the Salzburg management reassigned equipment among their various lines as needed.

 

Yours Aye,

 

 

Garth Groff

 

On Sat, Sep 26, 2020 at 3:19 AM Jack Mullen <jack.f.mullen@...> wrote:

On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 12:00 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:

Here's a Jim Sands photo of a car that went to the FDDM&S with a Youngstown door:

The intriguing thing about this photo is that the car to the left is also an ex-B&M XM-1, one that went to the WAG in the mid-'50s. 

Jack Mullen


Photo: GATX 31197 & 54877 At DuPont Plant (1940)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: GATX 31197 & 54877 At DuPont Plant (1940)

A photo from the Hagley Digital Archives:

https://digital.hagley.org/1972341_0564?solr_nav%5Bid%5D=4548b74fa792245fab1b&solr_nav%5Bpage%5D=1&solr_nav%5Boffset%5D=23

Scroll on the postcard to enlarge it.

Caption:

Tank cars are loaded with hydrogen peroxide at the DuPont Company's plant near Memphis TN. Structure in left background is hydrogen peroxide manufacturing unit which uses a new non electrolytic process developed by DuPont research. One of plant's 250,000 pound aluminum peroxide storage tanks is at left and drum filling station and warehouse at right. Southern textile and paper mills use large quantities of hydrogen peroxide for bleaching.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Eaboard Ventilated Boxcar 16204 (1918)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Eaboard Ventilated Boxcar 16204 (1918)

Yes, Eaboard.

A photo from the Hagley Digital Archives:

https://digital.hagley.org/2017239_04_207?solr_nav%5Bid%5D=757ef1a8e4df72d37a0b&solr_nav%5Bpage%5D=1&solr_nav%5Boffset%5D=20

Scroll on the postcard to enlarge it.

Looks like some boards were replaced and the car returned to service before heading to the paint shop. Possibly a non-home road repair.

Another view:

https://digital.hagley.org/2017239_04_210?solr_nav%5Bid%5D=a62a318a0d7106e10d34&solr_nav%5Bpage%5D=2&solr_nav%5Boffset%5D=8

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Heinz "Coffin Tank" Pickle Cars

Bill J.
 

Doug, that's the final word for me, thank you.

Bill Jolitz