Date   

Re: Wood End Ban Date

tgmadden <tgmadden@...>
 

You response sounds suspiciously like ^^!^

Tom "We're number one!" M.

Okay Tom, I give up!! Not only can't I figure out what you meant, but I
don't think I even have the keys on my typewriter to duplicate that
remark. Even though I may resemble it!!

Is it a plan view of 1 1/2 well endowed females? Don't you think it's a
little out of place here?

Two knuckles, one extended finger, one knuckle. Thumb is folded under. Front
view. Byron, if you're using a typewriter to access the 'net, you're
cleverer than I thought!

Tom "Go Avs! Number 1!!" M.


Re: Wood End Ban Date

byronrose@...
 

On Sun, 10 Jun 2001 21:34:32 -0600 "tgmadden" <tgmadden@worldnet.att.net>
writes:
Byron rejoindered:
Oh wait, I forgot to add one of these: 8-)
Or should it be :-( ?

You response sounds suspiciously like ^^!^

Tom "We're number one!" M.

Okay Tom, I give up!! Not only can't I figure out what you meant, but I
don't think I even have the keys on my typewriter to duplicate that
remark. Even though I may resemble it!!

Is it a plan view of 1 1/2 well endowed females? Don't you think it's a
little out of place here?

BS
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Re: Wood End Ban Date

tgmadden <tgmadden@...>
 

Byron rejoindered:
Oh wait, I forgot to add one of these: 8-)
Or should it be :-( ?

You response sounds suspiciously like ^^!^

Tom "We're number one!" M.


Re: Wood End Ban Date

byronrose@...
 

On Sun, 10 Jun 2001 18:54:36 -0700 thompson@signaturepress.com writes:
I said:
FWIW, these were wood-sheathed, steel framed ends, not
structural
wood ends.
Byron helpfully responded:
So what does that have to do with anything, Tony? Even I don't
model the
inside of the reefers I build. Do you?
Not the point of this thread, Byron, which was about the
durability or
lack thereof of wood ends and their possible banishment accordingly.
For
that reason, as you should well appreciate, structural steel parts
could
indeed play a role.
Tony,

Ease up. The original question, as I recall since I have since
dispatched it into the ether, was simply "when were wood ends outlawed."
Now if I saw that question on this list I would assume it was from a
modeler asking about how late a time period it would be okay to run
wooden ended cars on a layout. I think the answer that preceded mine, as
well mine answered his question. I don't think the internal
configuration would play much part in his modeling choices because he
would be unlikely to either model it internally or research its
construction before he bought the kit.

I have modeled many refrigerator cars as well as producing patterns and
data for quite a few kits, and I have never given any thought to the
internal structure of the car ends, nor have I ever been asked about it.
In fact, I don't know if the ACF reefers had any internal steel structure
in the ends. I know they had some tie rods in the car sides, and I know
that whatever structure they had served them well for the half century of
service that provided to URTCo. and the many railroads that utilized
them. But I don't know, nor do I care if they had internal steel members
in their ends. I do know that they were in service during the period I
model and therefore they can be properly used.

In fact, the biggest question I've had regarding refrigerator car ends
was why the heck did PFE and SFRD use steel ends on their cars anyway?
They certainly didn't need the punch-thru protection that a box car
needed because they had an ice bunker between the lower density load they
carried and the car end. In fact, are there any documented cases of
product punching thru the ends of any refrigerator cars? So other than
the bragging rights, what earthly use were they?

BS

Oh wait, I forgot to add one of these: 8-)
Or should it be :-( ?




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Re: Wood End Ban Date

thompson@...
 

I said:
FWIW, these were wood-sheathed, steel framed ends, not structural
wood ends.
Byron helpfully responded:
So what does that have to do with anything, Tony? Even I don't model the
inside of the reefers I build. Do you?
Not the point of this thread, Byron, which was about the durability or
lack thereof of wood ends and their possible banishment accordingly. For
that reason, as you should well appreciate, structural steel parts could
indeed play a role.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


Railworks PRR flats

dixierails <dixierails@...>
 

Bruce,
Railworks had the following flatcars made in Korea, if I remember correctly.
They are beautiful peices of work. A friend watched me grit blast the first
one today to remove the lacquer coating and prep it for painting.
The first batch included the F-33, F-34, F35, F-36, and the F37a/37b. I
believe all are sold out. I know the F-34s disappeared almost immediately
they were offered for sale.
The second batch included the F-22, F-28, F29 (two different styles of 3
axle trucks), and the FD-1.
I believe all were appropriate for 1944, with the exception of the FD-1. I'm
in the process of develoving correct, and hopefully reproducible, model
loads appropriate for WWII. I'll let you know how it turns out.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce F Smith" <smithbf@mail.auburn.edu>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: RR X-23 [STMFC] Resin



Too bad you won't have any depressed center flat cars on your layout,
they look really neat and Railworks did a good job of them.

BS
I have 29 cars of wiggle room! These
will account for minor classes such as the flat you mention, and with TWO
power stations on the layout, these are a must have item! BTW, refresh my
memory on what class(es) RW produced in a depressed center flat? I hope
it is pre 1944 <G>.

Happy Rails
Bruce


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Re: More on GA RR USRA SS Cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

What were GA #29300-29449? These were rebuilt
with steel side sheets too, but were definitely not a USRA design. There's
a shot of GA #29399 in Classic Freight Cars Volume 1.
This was one of the 1924 Pratt Truss single sheathed cars (discussed here
earlier) after being rebuilt, but most of them were rebuilt with double
sheathed steel sides, not the exterior post sides shown in the referenced
photo.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: More on GA RR USRA SS Cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

John Golden wrote:

While we're on the subject of Georgia's USRA SS cars, I need a helping
hand with specific car information following their rebuilding. After the
cars were rebuilt with steel sides (but retaining their exterior SS
braces), some/most/all the cars were painted silver with black ends and
black lettering. Were the cars ever painted in a box car red scheme
following the rebuilding, or did they come out of the shop with the
silver/black paint? Thanks for the help!
This has already been pretty well covered while I've been out of town, but
here's the photographic evidence I have in my files:

Mineral Red, White Lettering:

GA 19668, H'Ville 4-38 (the date had been repainted, so this car was rebuilt
with steel sides and a radial steel roof before '38 and, presumably
painted mineral red at that time).

GA 19609, H'Ville 11-49 (welded steel roof, Apex running boards).

GA 19712, H'Ville 4-54 (fresh paint; radial steel roof, wood running boards).

Aluminum, Black Ends:

GA 19715, reweighed off-line 5-51 (welded roof, Apex running boards).

GA 19713, H'ville 6-61 (lt. wt., ld. lmt., and date repainted over mineral red
patches. radial steel roof, Apex running boards).

GA 19557, H'ville 8-66 (lt. wt., ld. lmt., and date repainted over mineral red
patches. radial steel roof, Apex running boards).

Aluminum, Black Ends and Doors, Black Sides Behind Ladders Only:

GA 19580, reweighed off-line (JAX 11-48) (lt. wt., ld. lmt., and date repainted
over mineral red patches. welded steel roof, wood running boards).

Moral to the story: work off of a photo from the era you model (if one or
more of the photos above would be helpful, I can send JPEGs).

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


AC Gilbert HO cast metal depressed center flat car

harper-brown@...
 

Do any of you gurus know if the old AC Gilbert cast metal depressed
center flat car had a prototype? If it represents a prototype what
is it?

Jared Harper


Re: Digest Number 179

golden1014
 

Hi Larry,
How're you doing? Thanks for the help on the GA cars. So, without giving away too much information in your article, can you help me get the right information on the cars, ca. 1950? My assumptions: GA RR USRA SS cars, as originally built, wore the silver/black scheme in 1950. Rebuilt cars (with the steel sides, retaining their exterior posts) were also painted silver/black for a time. Eventually all the cars were re-painted in BC red with white lettering.
My only remaining questions are 1) When were the cars rebuilt, and 2) Wnen were the cars (original configuration or rebuilt) painted BC red/white?
Thanks for the help! I'll be sure to put you on my "all-time list of good guys".

JG

Message: 18
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 00:02:01 -0400
From: "dixierails" <dixierails@artddc.net>
Subject: Re: More on GA RR USRA SS Cars

John,
I talked to two carbuilders while researching an article on the
Georgia
Road boxcars. Both men had worked on the rebuild program. All the
rebuilt
cars up until about 1952 were painted silver, with black ends and
underframes. Some were painted boxcar red after that, although many
were
painted solid silver/aluminum til scrapped.
Larry Sexton



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Re: RR X-23 Resin

Bruce F Smith <smithbf@...>
 

On Sat, 9 Jun 2001 byronrose@juno.com wrote:
Bruce,

Too bad you won't have any depressed center flat cars on your layout,
they look really neat and Railworks did a good job of them.

BS

As I figure it...I should have about 50% PRR cars on the layout. Given an
average train length on my layout of 25 cars, then 20 trains worth is 500
cars (or 250 PRR) If I simply round the number of cars in each of the top
30 classes to the nearest 1,000 and divide by 1000, out of a total of
approximately 221 PRR cars<snip>
Byron,

As I always say to my classes...read the question, then read it again,
answer it then read it again!<G> See, the top 30 classes account for 221
cars...but I need 250 PRR cars...so I have 29 cars of wiggle room! These
will account for minor classes such as the flat you mention, and with TWO
power stations on the layout, these are a must have item! BTW, refresh my
memory on what class(es) RW produced in a depressed center flat? I did
not manage to pick one up when released, but it could deifinitely go on
the "wish list". I hope it is pre 1944 <G>.

Happy Rails
Bruce


Re: Resin

byronrose@...
 

On Fri, 8 Jun 2001 15:32:52 -0500 Peter Reinhold
<paintplustrains@chorus.net> writes:
Thanks Victor. We ARE normal and no one should try to change us.
Peter,

Please speak for yoursealf . . yerselve . . . yorese . . . noone but you,
please.

Did I say please, I keep forgetting to do that.

BS
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Re: RR X-23 Resin

byronrose@...
 

On Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:23:06 -0500 "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D."
<smithbf@mail.auburn.edu> writes:
Or are you implying that I might be better off scratchbuilding my
own? If
I did that, then a Tichy, Red Caboose or IM X-23 would be released
somewhere halfway through my project!!!

Bruce,

S'funny you should mention this, because Bowser has recently said that
they will be doing a Pennsy X-23. I for one will enjoy seeing how they
develop the outside bracing with their apparent limit against any detail
projecting more than .010" away from the car side. Or better yet, their
deeply unembossed ladders.

Those three companies you mentioned are the last ones I'd expect to see
an X-23 from. RC and IM (plus LifeLike) won't do anything they can't
bring out in multiple road names, and Tichy has about 10 years worth of
work ahead of him with his next kit, whatever it is!

And Steve Funero was supposed to have his X-23 kit ready two months ago
for the Pennsy meet. ???????

If you're so anxious for a cheap X-23, get yerself one of the old Red
Ball kits; just make sure it's an old kit with the lead base castings.
The plastic ones never cast well enough to justify building the kit.
BTW, yes, I did build one, about 35 years ago. You can see it in most of
the catalogs that Howell Day produced in his last 10 years of running Red
Ball.

You are aware that Classic Somethings is producing a whole series of
X-23s and its derivatives in brass, aren't you? If you start investing
now, by the time they come out you might be able to afford one. Think
"Highliner," "glacier," and all those other really slooow adjectives
mentioned earlier.

BSR





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Re: RR X-23 Resin

byronrose@...
 

Bruce,

Too bad you won't have any depressed center flat cars on your layout,
they look really neat and Railworks did a good job of them.

BS

On Fri, 8 Jun 2001 08:45:49 -0500 "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D."
<smithbf@mail.auburn.edu> writes:
Morning,

Byron said:
I've got a set of X-23 patterns crying out to me to finish them.
AWWWWRIGHT! I was just purusing my lists of the top 30 classes of
PRR cars
in 1943 and 1945
(http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRR/carclasses.html)
and
realizing that the X-23 was one of the few classes not available,
for which
I will need a number of cars! let me encourage you to finish those
masters
<G>. Of the top 15 classes (below), the only ones not covered in
some form
(excluding brass) are the GR, X-23 and H-25. I reserved 24 of the
Bowser
GLa yesterday (being offerred as discounted 12 packs pre-release) so
that
part of the fleet is covered (just hope they do a good version <G>)
and I
can always slowly replace them with Westerfield...

As I figure it...I should have about 50% PRR cars on the layout.
Given an
average train length on my layout of 25 cars, then 20 trains worth
is 500
cars (or 250 PRR) If I simply round the number of cars in each of
the top
30 classes to the nearest 1,000 and divide by 1000, out of a total
of
approximately 221 PRR cars, I should have:
39 H-21a
28 X-29
26 GLa
25 GS
13 GRa
10 X-26
9 X-25
8 GLc
8 GR
7 X-31a
6 X-23
5 H-25
5 G-22
5 X-28a
4 G-27
etc...

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" -
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Re: Wood End Ban Date

byronrose@...
 

On Sat, 9 Jun 2001 11:02:17 -0700 thompson@signaturepress.com writes:
Dick Harley wrote:
FWIW, PFE had the following quantities of wooden end
cars listed in the ORER:
July, 1960 3,224 cars...
July, 1963 628 cars...
FWIW, these were wood-sheathed, steel framed ends, not structural
wood ends.

So what does that have to do with anything, Tony? Even I don't model the
inside of the reefers I build. Do you?

Love and XXXXs,

BS

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Re: Wood End Ban Date

thompson@...
 

Dick Harley wrote:
FWIW, PFE had the following quantities of wooden end
cars listed in the ORER:
July, 1960 3,224 cars...
July, 1963 628 cars...
FWIW, these were wood-sheathed, steel framed ends, not structural wood ends.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


Re: RR X-23 Resin

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

That's all! We used to pay for a line of kits produced by him. Several
years was more likely. - John

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jared V Harper" <harper-brown@juno.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 7:10 PM
Subject: Re: RR X-23 [STMFC] Resin





F&C can be reached at RD#3, Box 2800, Honesdale, PA 18431 or via
email at fandc@ezaccess.net or by phone 570-224-4989. Also, he now
takes all 4 major credit cards.
The LAST time I ordered from F&C it took exactly 6 months from order to
delivery. I decided then that nothing F&C would produce would be worth
the wait.

Jared Harper
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Re: More on GA RR USRA SS Cars

dixierails <dixierails@...>
 

John,
I talked to two carbuilders while researching an article on the Georgia
Road boxcars. Both men had worked on the rebuild program. All the rebuilt
cars up until about 1952 were painted silver, with black ends and
underframes. Some were painted boxcar red after that, although many were
painted solid silver/aluminum til scrapped.
Larry Sexton

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Golden" <golden1014@yahoo.com>
To: <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>; <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 5:12 PM
Subject: [STMFC] More on GA RR USRA SS Cars



Hey Richard,
all the cars were painted silver with black ends and black lettering. Were
the cars ever painted in a box car red scheme following the rebuilding, or
did they come out of the shop with the silver/black paint? Thanks
John Golden


Re: Wood End Ban Date

Dick Harley <Dick.Harley@...>
 

On Thu, 7 Jun 2001 Byron Rose wrote:

In fact, they were never banned. Weren't wooden
end reefers used right up until the end of our
interest.
And even beyond I bet, but I'm not interested in
looking it up.
FWIW, PFE had the following quantities of wooden end
cars listed in the ORER:

July, 1960 3,224 cars (out of a fleet of 28,818
cars)
including 1,316 of the R-30/40-16 class

July, 1963 628 cars (out of a fleet of 22,592 cars)
including 439 of the R-30/40-16 class

April, 1965 70 cars

January, 1967 11 cars

Regards,
Dick Harley


Re: More on GA RR USRA SS Cars

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

While we're on the subject of Georgia's USRA SS cars... Were the cars
ever painted in a box car red scheme following the rebuilding
John, yes, some cars evidently got boxcar red paint. Classic Freight Cars
Volume 1 has a 1956 shot of GA #19682, and Model Railroading January 1987
has a 1954 photo of GA #19712.

Did we already cover this? What were GA #29300-29449? These were rebuilt
with steel side sheets too, but were definitely not a USRA design. There's
a shot of GA #29399 in Classic Freight Cars Volume 1.

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts

184241 - 184260 of 186232