Date   

Re: UTLX Car Classifications

Shawn Beckert
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:

In fact, Class Z covered all cars of non-UTLX
design, that is, various UTL-owned cars built
by GATC, ACF, etc. to the builders designs.
Apparently UTL added symbols to the class Z
designation to differentiate the various cars
that fell within this category, which would
account for the "XO", though I've never seen a
key for those added symbols.
This weekend I got out the magnifier and went over
the shot of UTLX 77251 with more attention to detail.
Luckily the angle and sharpness of the print allowed
me to make out the stenciling on the side of the car
nearest the photographer. It reads as follows:

ARA III
GATC
BUILT 3-20

Tony, I was wrong about the dome. It's a tad larger
than I thought, with the manway hatch much smaller
than the dome diameter. Maybe it's an asphalt car?

BTW, the two X-5's are pictured side-by-side at the
loading racks at the Humble Oil refinery in Baytown,
Texas. The caption reads " Tank cars being loaded with
Butane at Humble Oil Refinery". Without my reference
books in front of me I can only assume Butane has much
the same properties as LPG, thus can load in an ICC-105
tank with no problems? Also, the print shows the cars
being loaded with a flexible hose connected to the SIDE
of the control valve casing, not the top. The hose goes
in right where that little circular plate is located on
Athearn's version of a pressure car. Whatever other
faults that kit has, at least they got this detail right!

Shawn Beckert


Re: Resin

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

I think some of the buyers may be surprised a some of the Westerfield
kits. According to the numbers they are the older resin (but depending on
when they were bought they may be old or new resin as Al now casts older
numbers with new resin). I saw some older kits marked new resin so I guess
Gronski upgraded some kits. I don't think Al does this anymore.
On the F&C kits, is there anyway to tell the newer kits from the older
kits?

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax DCC owner, Chief system
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Sunshine News & Naperville

tgmadden <tgmadden@...>
 

Dave Nelson wrote

Seriously tho, wonder if Martin will make use of Tom's casting lessons on
this one. Having done a couple of Al's 1 pc gondola car bodies I gotta
say:
what an improvement!

Martin received "The Clinic" three months before I gave it to Al. Martin has
done some vertical castings with detail on both sides, but still using the
flat casting technique. On his 10th Anniversary ATSF Ga-8 kit he did all the
side panels that way (assorted cut-down boxcar ends), and his PRR GS 38' gon
kit has the body shell (sides & ends) cast in one piece. What none of the
manufacturers have done is cast body parts in closed molds as separate
pieces, with alignment features on the back sides. This requires the same
equipment as one-piece body castings (pressure tank & compressor), but is
much more forgiving in that defects tend to be on the back sides of
castings. If this surface is inside the completed car, the odd bubble in an
alignment rib wouldn't matter. Admittedly this would work better for house
cars than for gons, but it would eliminate the struggle to align all those
slickery pieces with two hands (or fixtures) while trying to add CA adhesive
with the third. It would also mean less chance of adhesive getting onto the
outside of a car body, and result in a kit that packs and ships better. And
no doubt satisfy Larry King's plea for a bashable kit.

Tim fawned:
Personally, I have yet to see a perfect 3-D casting from anyone besides Tom
Madden... who did it mainly to demonstrate that it could be done.
That comes dangerously close to trivializing what I do. :-) I was
demonstrating what is standard practice in the rapid prototyping business, a
field in which I've personally poured more resin than Al and Martin combined
before I backed off to consultant status a couple years ago. (Some of our
molds have used 150 lbs. of silicone rubber, and produce castings weighing
10 pounds. You can make a lot of gondolas with that.)

Nevertheless, it's nice to have fans!

Tom

Steam era joke:

Husband, working on crossword puzzle: "I need a four-letter word ending in
'it'. It's something President Truman is full of."

Wife, after thoughtful pause: "That would be 'grit'.

Husband: "Oh! Right! Have you got an eraser?"


Re: Sunshine News & Naperville

Larry King <ab8180@...>
 

At 11:30 AM 6/4/2001 -0400, you wrote:
Dave Nelson wrote

Seriously tho, wonder if Martin will make use of Tom's casting lessons on
this one. Having done a couple of Al's 1 pc gondola car bodies I gotta
say:
what an improvement!
Personally, I have yet to see a perfect 3-D casting from anyone besides Tom
Madden... who did it mainly to demonstrate that it could be done. All of my
1-piece castings from Westerfield, F&C (Yankee Clipper, West Shore), and
Sylvan have slight casting defects (munged details where the resin didn't
flow
perfectly) or slight warpage (yaw and twist of the carbody) due to uneven
cooling and curing of the resin. (This warpage is fairly common with 1-piece
ABS plastic injection molded models too.)

Since Al made that statement that it takes him 3x as long to make a 1-piece
carbody, I wonder whether this technique is "sustainable" -- unless perhaps
if Al can shift production to China and pay his workers 75 cents an hour.

It takes me 15 hours to build and paint a resin car -- the 1-piece carbody
saves me about 1 hour, at the most. I can only think of one major exception,
which is the B&O wagon top box car from Sunshine, when compared to the
1-piece car from West Shore. The Sunshine kit gets a 7.9 on the Richter
scale for difficultly in that case!



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Just wanted to say that I agree with Mr Nelson's assesment of the 1-pc
body issue 100%. I too have seen many imperfections on 1-pc bodies from 3
different
manufacturers. I think the flat kit is better because it seems more adapted
to
the serious freight car modeler-ie a better finished model and greater
"kitbash-ability". If you
have warps, misalignments,etc with flat parts,you can do something about
it. With the 1-pc kit you can't.If you want to do variations or kitbashes,
the flat parts obviously are the way to go.And they're cheaper to boot.

Larry King


Re: Sunshine News & Naperville

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Dave Nelson wrote

Seriously tho, wonder if Martin will make use of Tom's casting lessons on
this one. Having done a couple of Al's 1 pc gondola car bodies I gotta say:
what an improvement!
Personally, I have yet to see a perfect 3-D casting from anyone besides Tom
Madden... who did it mainly to demonstrate that it could be done. All of my
1-piece castings from Westerfield, F&C (Yankee Clipper, West Shore), and
Sylvan have slight casting defects (munged details where the resin didn't flow
perfectly) or slight warpage (yaw and twist of the carbody) due to uneven
cooling and curing of the resin. (This warpage is fairly common with 1-piece
ABS plastic injection molded models too.)

Since Al made that statement that it takes him 3x as long to make a 1-piece
carbody, I wonder whether this technique is "sustainable" -- unless perhaps
if Al can shift production to China and pay his workers 75 cents an hour.

It takes me 15 hours to build and paint a resin car -- the 1-piece carbody
saves me about 1 hour, at the most. I can only think of one major exception,
which is the B&O wagon top box car from Sunshine, when compared to the
1-piece car from West Shore. The Sunshine kit gets a 7.9 on the Richter
scale for difficultly in that case!


Re: more from Bob's Photo & Sunshine

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Bill Welch wrote

The size of the collection that Bob purchased from Col. McCoy's estate is starting to sink in.
One good thing about Bob is that he's been in business a long time, and hopefully will be,
for some time to come.. So I just buy photos on the "installment plan" -- 20 here, 20 there,
and pretty soon they pile up without putting me in the poor house.

That consignment idea sounds pretty good though... Would save me a lot of time when I'd
rather be in the clinics at Naperville.

I was urging [Martin] to consider doing the correct size Wabash herald for the ART reefer ... he...
will offer this scheme with a custom made Wabash herald that will be about 112% larger than that
in the Champ set. I will urge him to get extras to sell separately.
I assume you mean 12% larger. I definitely will be interested in both the kit, and extra decals!


more from Bob's Photo & Sunshine

Bill Welch <bwelch@...>
 

The scale of the size of the collection that Bob purchased from Col. McCoy's estate is starting to sink in. Bob called me over the weekend to tell me he was sending me on consignment 160 black & whites of Southern RR subjects from the collection. This one of those "Careful what you pray for" situations, going from "hope he finds them" (they were lost at one point), to hoping there are some treasures in there (mainly their gons and ventilators), to hoping there are not too many treasures, to wondering do I need to go to the bank and take aout a short term loan? Is it possible to have too much of a good thing?!

Also talked to Martin @ Sunshine recently. I was urging him to consider doing the correct size Wabash herald for the ART reefer release he was doing this summer. Because the "two heralds to the right of the door scheme" is later then many of the schemes he offers, he was thinking of not offering it at all and letting people buy their own Champ sets. He called me to tell me that he had changed his mind and will offer this scheme with a custom made Wabash herald that will be about 112% larger than that in the Champ set. I will urge him to get extras to sell separately.


Bill 'Welch <bwelch@uucf.org>
Associate Minister, Unitarian Universalist Congregation of Fairfax
P.O. Box 130 Oakton VA 22124 www.uucf.org
Telephone 703 281-4230 Fax 703 281-5399


Re: Sunshine News & Naperville

Dave & Libby Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor [mailto:timoconnor@mediaone.net]
Anyway, freight car items (coming sooner or later)

Bethlehem 70 ton, 52'6" gondolas -- lotsa roads
Cool, so we should see it in plastic too and within 18 months or so! 8-)

Seriously tho, wonder if Martin will make use of Tom's casting lessons on
this one. Having done a couple of Al's 1 pc gondola car bodies I gotta say:
what an improvement!

Dave Nelson


Re: New book on NYC cars

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Jeff, wasn't that the standard "capacity star" that denoted a car
with a load limit restriction for a reason "other than" axle load
limits? Granted, those were conventionally placed next to the CAPY
stencil...


NYC132579, photo in 1951 shows a large, solid white star painted above the
car dimensions -- must be at least a foot across. Havn't seen that
before.
Haven't found out the significance of that star yet, but lots of
NYC cars had it in the 40s.
Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


Re: interesting NP reefer

Bill Welch <bwelch@...>
 

will do on the four or five where they had to make negatives.

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 6/3/01, at 3:11 PM, John Riddell wrote:

Bill,

Dis you order any prints from original prints or only from negative
numbers ?

If you ordered prints from originals, can you send a list of them so
they can be added to the master list for others to order, as I explained
in my clinic at Naperville ?

John Riddell


Bill Welch wrote:

Among the shipment of photos I received yesterday from the National Archives of Canada was NP 99982. This one of their truss rod cars but with a sliding door replacing the swinging reefer doors. To the left of the door is a stirrup with four grabs above it. In the 1948 & 1953 ORER's this car is part of series 99968-99995 with the notation they "have been converted to combination box-refrigerator cars by sealing ice bunker and bolting down hatches in one end of car."

I have seen this notation before but this is first photo I have seen of one of the cars. For those interested I include the negative number necessary for ordering--PA210177

Bill 'Welch <bwelch@uucf.org>
Associate Minister, Unitarian Universalist Congregation of Fairfax
P.O. Box 130 Oakton VA 22124 www.uucf.org
Telephone 703 281-4230 Fax 703 281-5399

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Bill 'Welch <bwelch@uucf.org>
Associate Minister, Unitarian Universalist Congregation of Fairfax
P.O. Box 130 Oakton VA 22124 www.uucf.org
Telephone 703 281-4230 Fax 703 281-5399


Re: New book on NYC cars

Jeff English
 

"Dave & Libby Nelson" <muskoka@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

It's
not bad for a thin thing.
There's been a bit of discussion on this book previously on the
FCL. Beware of factual errors in the captions.

A couple of interesting cars:

NYC80854, lot 742B, from 1946. There are three horizontal rows of rivets
running the full length of the car dividing the car side into 3 equally
sized bands intersected with a vertical run of rivets spaced about the
middle of each panel. Hardly a flat surface w/o a rivet head in it. Must
have been a slow period when lots of help was on hand....
This car is in an auto parts pool and probably is fitted with
special racks that account for the rivets. IIRC, the normal, off-the-
production-line appearance of this Lot would be without all those
extra rivets. And in a different number series.

NYC132579, photo in 1951 shows a large, solid white star painted above the
car dimensions -- must be at least a foot across. Havn't seen that
before.
Haven't found out the significance of that star yet, but lots of
NYC cars had it in the 40s.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff English Troy, New York
Proto:64 Classic Era Railroad Modeling
englij@rpi.edu

| R U T L A N D R A I L R O A D |
Route of the Whippet
---------------------------------------------------------------


Re: Sunshine News & Naperville

Benjamin Hom <bhom3@...>
 

Jon Miller observed:

The last meeting at Pleasenton had a impromptu freight car dinner at a local
Chinese restaurant which lasted until they (politely) threw us out.


Tom Madden added:

I thought it was Ben's offering around samples of his squid plate that
caused some of us to decide we were no longer hungry.


Hey, more for me! Anyone know a good sushi place in Naperville?


Ben Hom


Re: Sunshine News & Naperville

tgmadden <tgmadden@...>
 

Jon Miller observed:
The last meeting at Pleasenton had a impromptu freight car dinner at a
local Chinese restaurant which lasted until they (politely) threw us out.

I thought it was Ben's offering around samples of his squid plate that
caused some of us to decide we were no longer hungry.

Tom


Re: Sunshine News & Naperville

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

It is my understanding that all of Martin's "gatherings" are growing at
a very good rate. I know he said both the S. CA and N. CA ones are growing
with Naperville being the crown jewel in the Midwest.
The last meeting at Pleasenton had a impromptu freight car dinner at a
local Chinese restaurant which lasted until they (politely) threw us out.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax DCC owner, Chief system
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Sunshine News & Naperville

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

I received my "early warning" newsletter from Sunshine, and it is
full of exciting news. I had no idea it was getting to be so popular,
for one thing. According to the letter, 325 people attended in 2000,
and far more are expected for 2001! There will be a special dinner
with a speaker on Friday night, who will give a talk about Milwaukee
Road electric operations.

Anyway, freight car items (coming sooner or later)

Bethlehem 70 ton, 52'6" gondolas -- lotsa roads
Bethlehem 50 ton, 52'6" gondolas -- WM
48'6" steel gondolas -- NKP
UTLX tank car -- work continues (!)
40' steel gondolas -- L&N and Southern
40' AAR gondolas -- in process
ART horizontal-seam ice reefers -- two versions
URTX/Milwaukee horizontal-seam ice reefers w/ Duryea underframes --
multiple versions
Unique Hollywood caboose, Ie-X reefer, Sk-R rebuild -- AT&SF
Double sheathed 8'6" and 10'2" rebuilds -- Cotton Belt
R50b express reefer -- PRR

Plus lots of new decals, and some limited and non-limited run detail
parts. For example, Duryea underframe modification kits, and square
corner ends for SOO, DSS&A, and IC 40 foot "1940" 10'5" box cars.


Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


Re: An interesting lot from the Gronski estate

dixierails <dixierails@...>
 

Ben,
Is there any chance you ever acquired photos of the 5" gun mounts being
loaded, or loaded on flatcars? I've seen several photos of the turrents,
with their gun in position, and their loader pulled out, all loaded on a
flatcar. Unfortunately, I never got a photo and I'm now desperately looking
for one or more photos as reference while I create a model.
Larry Sexton

----- Original Message -----
From: "Benjamin Hom" <bhom3@home.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 11:28 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] An interesting lot from the Gronski estate
I remember seeing 5 in/54 caliber Mark 42
gun mounts having the barrels removed, then being mounted two to a flatcar
after they were craned off the ships.
Ben Hom


Gun Flats was An interesting lot from the Gronski estate

Bruce F Smith <smithbf@...>
 

On Sat, 2 Jun 2001, Tim O'Connor wrote:
I believe some destroyer naval gun turrets were shipped on flat cars.
Unfortunately, I can't recall where I acquired this notion!
Entirely possible, but unlikely that the turrets in question were intended
for such <G>. Interestingly, it seems that Baldwin was in the business of
making guns including rail mounted coastal defense guns, at least in the
early days of WWII.

Also, the PRR had a couple of flat car classes that were specifically
designated "gun flats". These were relatively short cars, with "V" shaped
side sills, and were designed to carry one end of a relatively large bore
rifle (ie 14" or greater). I believe that the classes were F22 & F23 (but
I'm working from memory). Railworks recently released a model of at least
one of these classes, and I'm pretty sure that they only differed in the
type of flooring (steel vs wood). I believe that these cars were used for
other heavy loads, occaisionally with a spacer car between the two gun
flats.

Happy Rails
Bruce


Georgia RR Box Cars

golden1014
 

Guys,

Need a little help here. I saw a picture of a GA RR composite-side 1924 ARA box car in Hanson's GA RR book (page unknown, but it was in the middle of the book...not in the freight cars section). I'd like to make some HO scale models from home-made castings. I will make the casting available for anybody else that might want some too.

I have two questions about the cars: 1) What kind of ends did the car have (Corrugated 7-8, Flat Pullman, etc), and 2) What kind of roof did the car have? The ends are the most important, so if you know please drop me a line so I can get started. Thanks in advance.

Just got back from the PM Meet in Savannah...it was great. I'm planning to be there next year and hope you can all join us.

John Golden



Checked out our PhotoPoint.com web site yet? Over 700 railroad pictures, documents, models and more have been uploaded since November. Here's the link: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=1187026&f=0



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New book on NYC cars

Dave & Libby Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

Picked up a new book -- booklet actually, only 48 pages -- on NYC freight
cars by Liljestrand and Sweetland published by The Railroad Press. It's not
bad for a thin thing. All photos are from Bob's photos and are printed at
least 4x6 in B&W and I must say for most of the photos the black is really
black and the white is really white (IOW, good photography). The image
printing is very nicely done on coated paper.

A couple of interesting cars:

NYC80854, lot 742B, from 1946. There are three horizontal rows of rivets
running the full length of the car dividing the car side into 3 equally
sized bands intersected with a vertical run of rivets spaced about the
middle of each panel. Hardly a flat surface w/o a rivet head in it. Must
have been a slow period when lots of help was on hand....

NYC132579, photo in 1951 shows a large, solid white star painted above the
car dimensions -- must be at least a foot across. Havn't seen that before.

NYC 23334, lot 423S. A steel underframe stock car having heavy wood members
in a Howe truss. What's interesting is a steel rod Pratt truss is also
there giving the appearance of an X made from very fat and very thin
members.

-----------------------------------
Dave Nelson


Re: interesting NP reefer

John Riddell <jriddell@...>
 

Bill,

Dis you order any prints from original prints or only from negative
numbers ?

If you ordered prints from originals, can you send a list of them so
they can be added to the master list for others to order, as I explained
in my clinic at Naperville ?

John Riddell


Bill Welch wrote:


Among the shipment of photos I received yesterday from the National Archives of Canada was NP 99982. This one of their truss rod cars but with a sliding door replacing the swinging reefer doors. To the left of the door is a stirrup with four grabs above it. In the 1948 & 1953 ORER's this car is part of series 99968-99995 with the notation they "have been converted to combination box-refrigerator cars by sealing ice bunker and bolting down hatches in one end of car."

I have seen this notation before but this is first photo I have seen of one of the cars. For those interested I include the negative number necessary for ordering--PA210177

Bill 'Welch <bwelch@uucf.org>
Associate Minister, Unitarian Universalist Congregation of Fairfax
P.O. Box 130 Oakton VA 22124 www.uucf.org
Telephone 703 281-4230 Fax 703 281-5399

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
STMFC-unsubscribe@egroups.com



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