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MP book

Earl Tuson
 

Can anyone comment as to the usefulness of Patrick Dorin's MP Freight Trains
and Equipment book to a steam era (primarily boxcar) modeler? TIA.

Earl Tuson

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Re: Gypsum Loading--Ft. Dodge, IA

charmantas
 

Thanks to everyone who responded to my original request for
information regarding this subject. Your efforts are greatly
appreicated.

Charles Harmantas


Re: Gypsum Loading--Ft. Dodge, IA

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

Charles, It is confirmed that the M&StL did ship gyp in open hoppers to
Mason City. Which hoppers is anybody's guess.
Clark

charmantas@yahoo.com wrote:

I have a friend not on the STMFC list who is modeling CGW-MSTL in the
Fort Dodge, IA area in the late 1950's--early 1960's. He wants to
know how gypsum was shipped from the mines located at Gypsum/Ft.
Dodge, IA. Was it in open hoppers/gons or covered hoppers? What
roads and car series? Any help would be appreciated.

Charles Harmantas



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Air lines in brake gear

Norm Dresner <ndrez@...>
 

I have a few questions regarding modeling an
(O-scale) (passenger) car's brake gear.

1. I assume that the air lines that run the length
of the car in the 1890's would have been (and
maybe still are) cast iron piping. Is this
correct?

2. I've tentatively decided to use .045" wire
which would be ~2" OD scale. Is this realistic?

3. I assume that there were pipe hangers at
intervals along the length of the car since this
kind of pipe isn't rigid enough to self-support
for 30'-60' or so. Was there any standard for the
kind of pipe hangers? Also, what's a typical
spacing for them?

If it makes any substantial difference, the brake
gear diagram I'm following appears to be similar
to some variant of the Westinghouse K-series.

Thanks in advance
Norm


Re: ICC Stats, whats in, whats out

tim gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Chris,

You wrote:

We used to use the ICC waybill sample for various rail traffic
analyses when
I was at at AAR. As I recall, it only included shipments that
originated in
the US. I don't know how long that has been the case with the sample.
Since the Canadian Railroads (except for those owned by US Class I RR's)
did not report their statistics to the ICC, there was no way for the ICC
to include these statistics in their 1% sample if that sample was
limited to originated traffic.

Apparently, these 1% samples also did not include any LCL waybills which
would have had a significant impact upon any analysis of traffic up to
about 1955.

I have heard about these samples only from this and the Freightcar List.
What traffic did these samples sample? Were these samples on a regional,
national or on some other basis?

Dave Nelson and I had a go-around on this last year. When Dave's
circa-1950 numbers implied that the average miles hauled was greater
when calculated using tons than using carloads, it was a red flag to me
that his sample was not a good representation of traffic nationally.

So, it will may be helpful when these 1% waybill samples are analyzed
that some thought is given to what the sample represents. For instance,
the car distribution of the Fraley Wheel Reports, I believe, is a good,
although not perfect, sample of traffic on the Union Pacific between
Laramie and Rawlins WY in Nov-Dec 1947. How well it can be extrapolated
into other areas is a matter of debate. The UP was a different railroad
in Nebraska than what it was west of Ogden to LA and the Pacific
Northwest. The UP had a different car distribution than, say, the
Pennsy.

This, however, does not mean that Wheel Reports, 1% Waybills or other
pieces of data cannot be useful tools of analysis. But, the analyst
better try to figure what the sample represents, and, then, how the
results may apply outside the sample's universe.

Take Care, Tim Gilbert


Re: 7 panel SS box cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

Replying to:
Did the GN have any 7 panel SS box cars?
Richard Hendrickson said:
One series of 500 cars built in 1927 by the GN's St. Cloud shops with 3/5
Dreadnaught ends and corrugated steel doors, IH 9'0".
Gosh, Richard, your own freight car chapter says they were built with
wood doors and got the corrugated ones later as replacements.
Oh, picky, picky. Anyway, it was Staffan who pointed out that they were
originally built with wood doors; I didn't know that. Apparently, I still
don't.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: ICC Stats, whats in, whats out

CBarkan@...
 

In a message dated 9/8/1 10:41:19 AM, timoconnor@mediaone.net writes:

<< As Dave Nelson said, there is some "filter" being applied to
the ICC data, and we don't know what it is.>>

We used to use the ICC waybill sample for various rail traffic analyses when
I was at at AAR. As I recall, it only included shipments that originated in
the US. I don't know how long that has been the case with the sample.

Chris


Re: 7 panel SS box cars

thompson@...
 

Replying to:
Did the GN have any 7 panel SS box cars?
Richard Hendrickson said:
One series of 500 cars built in 1927 by the GN's St. Cloud shops with 3/5
Dreadnaught ends and corrugated steel doors, IH 9'0".
Gosh, Richard, your own freight car chapter says they were built with
wood doors and got the corrugated ones later as replacements.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


Accurail Swift reefer set

Peter Reinhold <paintplustrains@...>
 

Hi,

I saw the three-pak of Swift reefers on the Accurail site, stock# 3357.
I can't seem to find any paint/era info on Swift Reefers. Can anyone clue
me in on the time frame of this paint scheme.

Thanks,
Peter Reinhold
Paint Plus Trains
375 Fourth Street
Prairie Du Sac, WI. 53578
NMRA L4415
PRRT&HS #5518


Re: 7 panel SS box cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

I know the RI had tall 7 panel Pratt truss cars, but any low ARA style Howe
truss cars.
Yes, and not only the 40' Fowler cars shown in the CBCyc (and modeled by Al
Westerfield) but at least two series of later cars, one with wood doors and
corrugated ends and another with "beveled-off" Dreadnaught ends and
Youngstown corrugated doors.

Did the GN have any 7 panel SS box cars? Clark sent us that
War Emergency NP 7 panel Howe truss tall box car, but how about any lower
version.
One series of 500 cars built in 1927 by the GN's St. Cloud shops with 3/5
Dreadnaught ends and corrugated steel doors, IH 9'0".

The CNW had 9 panel USRA SS and USRA clones, but any 7 panel cars?

Vast numbers of 40' Fowler cars.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: New Accurail SS box cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

John Nehrich wrote:

....an Erie
scheme on a 7 panel car seems to be very popular, such as done by MDC on
their 7 panel Pratt truss car. As far as I know, the Erie's only possible
candidates for this would be their 36 foot Fowler box cars, but I want
confirmation there wasn't some class of Erie cars closer.
The Erie had a thousand 40'6" IL single sheathed composite box cars
numbered 94000-94999, built in 1923, and another thousand automobile box
cars which were identical except for 10' 1-1/2 doors numbered 95000-95999.
However, they were rebuilt in the 1930s as steel sheathed single door cars
by the simple expedient of tack-welding steel sheets over their steel Z-bar
body framing. After rebuilding they retained their original flexible metal
sheathed roofs and (surprisingly) wood doors and in most cases they also
kept their single sheathed ends, which were not steel sheathed (though some
cars got steel ends, resulting in an inside length of 40'1" instead of
40'6"). They were renumbered into the 70000-70999, 71000-71567, and
72500-72995 series, the latter being the steel end cars. In the fifties,
these cars were either retired or sold, and some ended up being owned by
the Akron, Canton & Youngstown, the Gulf Oil Co. (reporting marks GOC), and
possibly some other owners. I have no photos of the cars in their original
form but have several showing them under Erie, ACY, and Gulf ownership.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: 7 panel SS box cars

thompson@...
 

John Nehrich asked:
I know the RI had tall 7 panel Pratt truss cars, but any low ARA style Howe
truss cars. Did the GN have any 7 panel SS box cars?
John, GN was primarily a double-sheathed enthusiast in that period. Their
only group of single-sheathed 40-ft. cars were 500 six-panel (plus door)
Pratt truss cars with Z-bar bracing and Dreadnaught ends, built in 1927.
They are shown in the Hendrickson/Ehnbom chapter in the new edition of
Dorin's _Great Northern Lines East_ which is, yes, our book.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


Re: Fw: Color of Southern Hopper cars

aidrian.bridgeman-sutton <aidrian.bridgeman-sutton@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Nehrich" <nehrij@rpi.edu>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 5:02 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Fw: Color of Southern Hopper cars


I was sure that steam era Southern cars were box car red - I will have to
check out my sources on this.

I thought so too until a couple of years back, but unfortunately this info
is arse about face. Certainly any cars repainted after the late 50s were
red. and the very few colour photos that I have seen of steam freight
trains have gons and hoppers in black I assume flats were the same, but
have never seen a colour photo of a flat dating before the 60s.

Aidrian


7 panel cars

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

Okay, the Fowler Patent 40 foot cars were made for the CNW (Westerfield
kits) which were
7 panel cars. (I've been stewing over these 7 panel cars for several days,
and yet within minutes of sending off the question, the answers all but fall
in my lap.) - John


7 panel cars

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

Ooops! I questioned too fast. The Rock did have lower cars. There was a
builder's photo in the 1919 Cyc. - John


7 panel SS box cars

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

I know the RI had tall 7 panel Pratt truss cars, but any low ARA style Howe
truss cars. Did the GN have any 7 panel SS box cars? Clark sent us that
War Emergency NP 7 panel Howe truss tall box car, but how about any lower
version. The CNW had 9 panel USRA SS and USRA clones, but any 7 panel cars?
These schemes keep showing up on such cars (T-M, Walthers, MDC and
Accurail), and I'm pretty sure the answer is in all cases no, but I hate
writing that and then finding out I totally missed a plausible candidate. -
John


Re: New Accurail SS box cars

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

PS - In going over the list of schemes for this new series of kits, they
seem to following all prototypes that T-M/Walthers did (Fowler 40 foot box
cars, Mather Patent box cars, etc.) Which raises another question - an Erie
scheme on a 7 panel car seems to be very popular, such as done by MDC on
their 7 panel Pratt truss car. As far as I know, the Erie's only possible
candidates for this would be their 36 foot Fowler box cars, but I want
confirmation there wasn't some class of Erie cars closer. - John

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim O'Connor" <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 12:39 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] New Accurail SS box cars


At 04:01 PM 9/13/01 -0400, you wrote:
Just got a new Walthers catalog today. They have a listing for new
Accurail
"6 panel" SS box cars (what I would call a 7 panel car, counting the
door).
The 7001 series have "wood ends" (I hope composite) and the 7101 series
have
Dreadnaught (according to the listing). They show a prototype photo of
CB&Q
28265, a taller SS box with a Youngstown door.
John, that appears to be a CB&Q XM-30 - a fairly unique design with 1937
AAR elements, but a 9'4" inside height like the 1932 cars. The way the
roof
projects over the sides is interesting and gives the cars a real
"Burlington"
look. None of the cars had wooden or composite ends of course! I'm
surprised
Accurail would choose such a unique looking car instead of say the SLSF/MP
Howe Truss boxcars of the early 1920's, or War Emergency box cars. But
then
it looks like they chose a REALLY unique PRR design for their new
composite
2-bay open hopper...


Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Sterling, Massachusetts



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Re: New Accurail SS box cars

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

Tim - While the prototype photo might be of that CB&Q car (or the PRR
hopper), it doesn't necessary follow that is what they will copy. I'm
hopeful of either a lower 8 ft. 7 in. IH car or the 9 ft. IH of their
Bettendorf car (and hoping someone on the list had the inside scoop). In
the case of their stock car, Accurail chose sort of a strange prototype but
it appears that was just to use the mold base of their USRA DS car. Their
DS car could have been their SS box with DS sides, but thank god they copied
the USRA car much closer. I know this group has a lot of complaints about
Accurail (as do I), but they seem to be a lot more sensitive than so many
other shake-the-box kit makers, and many of Accurail's stretches of
prototype fidelity seem to do more with economic issues (they can't cut new
dies for each variation), rather than just not caring. So I'm hopeful this
new box car will be a useful model for a number of roads. - John

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim O'Connor" <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 12:39 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] New Accurail SS box cars


At 04:01 PM 9/13/01 -0400, you wrote:
Just got a new Walthers catalog today. They have a listing for new
Accurail
"6 panel" SS box cars (what I would call a 7 panel car, counting the
door).
The 7001 series have "wood ends" (I hope composite) and the 7101 series
have
Dreadnaught (according to the listing). They show a prototype photo of
CB&Q
28265, a taller SS box with a Youngstown door.
John, that appears to be a CB&Q XM-30 - a fairly unique design with 1937
AAR elements, but a 9'4" inside height like the 1932 cars. The way the
roof
projects over the sides is interesting and gives the cars a real
"Burlington"
look. None of the cars had wooden or composite ends of course! I'm
surprised
Accurail would choose such a unique looking car instead of say the SLSF/MP
Howe Truss boxcars of the early 1920's, or War Emergency box cars. But
then
it looks like they chose a REALLY unique PRR design for their new
composite
2-bay open hopper...


Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Sterling, Massachusetts



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Re: New Accurail SS box cars

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

At 04:01 PM 9/13/01 -0400, you wrote:
Just got a new Walthers catalog today. They have a listing for new Accurail
"6 panel" SS box cars (what I would call a 7 panel car, counting the door).
The 7001 series have "wood ends" (I hope composite) and the 7101 series have
Dreadnaught (according to the listing). They show a prototype photo of CB&Q
28265, a taller SS box with a Youngstown door.
John, that appears to be a CB&Q XM-30 - a fairly unique design with 1937
AAR elements, but a 9'4" inside height like the 1932 cars. The way the roof
projects over the sides is interesting and gives the cars a real "Burlington"
look. None of the cars had wooden or composite ends of course! I'm surprised
Accurail would choose such a unique looking car instead of say the SLSF/MP
Howe Truss boxcars of the early 1920's, or War Emergency box cars. But then
it looks like they chose a REALLY unique PRR design for their new composite
2-bay open hopper...


Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Gypsum Loading--Ft. Dodge, IA

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

Charles, I have learned the US Gypsum plant sent raw material to their
plant in Chicago. This went in open gondolas, most likely on the IC,
probably in GS gons. The person didn't remember the M&StL hauling any
raw material.
Clark

charmantas@yahoo.com wrote:

I have a friend not on the STMFC list who is modeling CGW-MSTL in the
Fort Dodge, IA area in the late 1950's--early 1960's. He wants to
know how gypsum was shipped from the mines located at Gypsum/Ft.
Dodge, IA. Was it in open hoppers/gons or covered hoppers? What
roads and car series? Any help would be appreciated.

Charles Harmantas



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Height:
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