Date   

Re: Accurail -- is this for real?

thompson@...
 

Ted Culotta said:
This appears to be a mish mash of plausible stand-ins...the
PRR H-31 War Emergency cars were not built to the AAR War Emergency
standard either. The UP War Emergency cars of this type were ballast
cars, not standard hoppers. The only plausible inaccurate roadnames
I can think of that have been omitted from this list...
Heck, just when I thought they were trying to lose their Inaccurail
nickname...guess we need to keep it around awhile longer. Bob Walker
strikes again.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


Re: Accurail -- is this for real?

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

The Accurail hopper is 30 feet long, the PK2 should be 33 feet long.
Basically, the Life-Like one is a more accurate version of the Athearn
composite hopper. Isn't the PRR one halfway between,
at 31-1/2 feet long? (I have to get to an ORER.) The composite car will be
good for a few earlier cars (more or less, but mostly less than more), such
as NKP, but I bet Accurail will duplicate all the War Emergency schemes too.
(And Athearn could have had the shake the box market sewed up, if they had
done these schemes on their composite.) - John

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." <smithbf@mail.auburn.edu>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 12:43 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Accurail -- is this for real?


http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/112-2702

Is Accurail really doing a unique PRR prototype hopper?
To ammend my previous message, a quick look at the May 2001 announcements
from Waltehrs indicates that this car will be release in AT&SF, Wabash,
C&O, NKP, CB&Q, Virginian, Clinchfield, L&N, and UP. A 55-Ton Panel Side
Twin Hopper will also be coming.

So, in-Acurail strikes again...this WILL NOT be the PRR H31b class...in
fact isn't this the same car as the P2K? Well, maybe they will get the
boards right <G>

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin
Franklin
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Re: Accurail -- is this for real?

ted_culotta@...
 

--- In STMFC@y..., "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." <smithbf@m...>
wrote:
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/112-2702

Is Accurail really doing a unique PRR prototype hopper?
To ammend my previous message, a quick look at the May 2001
announcements
from Waltehrs indicates that this car will be release in AT&SF,
Wabash,
C&O, NKP, CB&Q, Virginian, Clinchfield, L&N, and UP. A 55-Ton
Panel Side
Twin Hopper will also be coming.

So, in-Acurail strikes again...this WILL NOT be the PRR H31b
class...in
fact isn't this the same car as the P2K? Well, maybe they will get
the
boards right <G>
This appears to be a mish mash of plausible stand-ins. The NKP cars
were built in 1918 (if I remember correctly-- and not to the much
later War Emergency standard). The Virginian cars were War
Emergency, but were built by the road's Princeton shops to a
different plan than the War Emergency. We all know as well that the
PRR H-31 War Emergency cars were not built to the AAR War Emergency
standard either. The UP War Emergency cars of this type were ballast
cars, not standard hoppers. The only plausible inaccurate roadnames
I can think of that have been omitted from this list are the
Lackawanna, Lehigh Valley and the Cambria & Indiana, all of which
also had roughly similar composite hoppers (similar as compared to
the NKP, VGN, PRR and UP, not similar to reality!) So, this
eliminates half of the offerings as essentially bogus, although the
sales of the UP cars alone will probably pay for the tooling.

Ted Culotta


Re: SOO LINE box car

ted_culotta@...
 

--- In STMFC@y..., Clark Propst <cepropst@r...> wrote:
I have admired the Storzek kit since I first saw them on the SOO
LINE
modular layout at the train show at the NMRA Madison WI meet a few
years
back. You guys are sometimes referring to these cars as 'grain
cars'.
Could someone give me their number series and I'll try to do
something
useful with "The List" and let you all know if they hauled anything
else
( Is this a good use, Bill?).
Clark
While it does not specifically cover the sawtooth Fowler cars in
great detail, the Soo Line H&TS had an excellent article in their
Fall 1994 issue. The article is titled "The Evolution of the Soo
Line Freight Car Fleet". It's a good primer on the fleet for those
of us who are interested, but don't wish to become experts on the
fleet. It's 17 pages long and contains a lot of data and some good
photos. Check www.sooline.org.

Regards,

Ted


Re: Accurail -- is this for real?

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. <smithbf@...>
 

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/112-2702

Is Accurail really doing a unique PRR prototype hopper?
To ammend my previous message, a quick look at the May 2001 announcements
from Waltehrs indicates that this car will be release in AT&SF, Wabash,
C&O, NKP, CB&Q, Virginian, Clinchfield, L&N, and UP. A 55-Ton Panel Side
Twin Hopper will also be coming.

So, in-Acurail strikes again...this WILL NOT be the PRR H31b class...in
fact isn't this the same car as the P2K? Well, maybe they will get the
boards right <G>

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
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Re: Wabash single sheathed automobile box car

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

The MDC 50 foot single-sheathed box cars can be cut down easily to 40
footers, which would get you a Wabash car, at least for the time being. You
have to cut the roof off first, cut the ends free, and cut out a side panel
on each side of the door. The radial roof of the MDC kit means that only
the Wabash car is a match when cut down to 40 feet, unless you substitute a
new roof. The Walthers SS cars would seem to be a similar candidate for a
kitbash to 40 feet but with a saddle roof, but it is much much harder to cut
the roof off. The MDC car has a nice line along the top to guide a knife.
Of course, you wind up with a car with cast on grabs and ladders. (And you
have to choose which version of the MDC cars to use.) - John

----- Original Message -----
From: <fwj@mail.fwi.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 7:48 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Wabash single sheathed automobile box car


What do you folks think about someone like Sylvan Scale Models making
this Wabash car as a single piece resin body casting? Of course, I'm
referring to that same wonderful Canadian couple that brought us the
Canadian National 1929 S/S in a single piece casting.

I have built one of the Wabash cars from Funaro & Camerlengo. No
offense to those folks, but being a Wabash modeler, I need quite a
few more at a lot less effort! I am willing to pay more for a single
piece body casing and gather Westerfield and Sunshine Models may be
catching on.

I know that Sylvan Scale Models concentrates on Canadian prototypes
but uhhh... the Wabash ran in Canada too! They were such common cars
in interchange service long after being used in automobile service.
To me even without the logo etc, this car says "WABASH". It appears
that the Central Vermont had similar cars.

Does anyone else out there think there is a market for this car,
particulary as a one piece casting? I haven't had a change to check
out what Accurail has but doubt if it is accurate.

Victor Baird


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Storzek box cars

Larry King <ab8180@...>
 

5-23-01

Yes the NYC/DSS&A etc. "1915 design" (there was probably a NYC Lines
specification number for this 40'SU automobile car design) were built with
7+7 inward Murphy ends, (as were their steel side "1916" auto cars which
Westerfield makes,and which shared a lot of design characteristics.)However
in the early 20's some cars of the 1915 design were built for the Rutland
and also NYC Lines with 8+6 ends.Storzek made this variant also, although
he did not offer it in NYC lettering,only Rutland.I think also the Rutland
ones were the only ones built new with single 6' door;the NYC and the
others(which were second-hand from NYC)were all built as auto cars and some
were changed to 6' door later.As an aside, there were also some "very close
to 1916 design" STEEL auto cars built in the early 20's for NYC which had
the 7+8 inward Murphy end also.To confuse us even more the NYC rebuilt many
of the 1915 design cars in the 30's with steel sides and increased IH.
These had 7+7+3 ends.

L.R. King


Re: Accurail -- is this for real?

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. <smithbf@...>
 

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/112-2702

Is Accurail really doing a unique PRR prototype hopper?
Wow!! An H31b! Way cool (drool, slobber, etc)...Only problem is that this
is a "minor" class on the PRR, of 500 cars. The H31 was steel twin hopper,
followed by the one of a kind H31a, which was composite. The H31b followed
shortly thereafter, and H31b were converted to H31c (all steel) as follows:

H31b H31c
492 5 April '52
266 225 Oct '53
12 482 Oct '58
12 475 Oct '63
3 276 April '68

How's about an accurate H25 hopper to go with all those Bowser H21s?

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
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Accurail -- is this for real?

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/112-2702

Is Accurail really doing a unique PRR prototype hopper?


SOO LINE box car

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

I have admired the Storzek kit since I first saw them on the SOO LINE
modular layout at the train show at the NMRA Madison WI meet a few years
back. You guys are sometimes referring to these cars as 'grain cars'.
Could someone give me their number series and I'll try to do something
useful with "The List" and let you all know if they hauled anything else
( Is this a good use, Bill?).
Clark


Re: Storzek kits on Ebay

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

ted_culotta@yahoo.com wrote:





If I remember correctly, the
NYC/NKP/DSS&A versions had 7/7 indented Murphy ends

I believe some of these cars were purchased and rebuilt by the M&StL
in 1940. I modified Westerfield 5/5/5 indented Murphy ends on my
model. What are these ends really for? I ordered them through Walthers
part #1995.
Clark





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Re: Storzek kits on Ebay

billd@...
 

Oh, heathen that I am...

Well...if I would only dig out my copies of the Storzek kits
that I have laying around here, I would see that this is
correct (I am suitably abashed).

I admit that the "distressed" sides on the Accurail kits is
awful...and I've seen real cars that have been out in the
weather for well over 50 years and do not show anything even
remotely resembling what (in)Accurail is doing on their wood
cars. You'd think that Dennis should know better!

As far as the quality of resin kits goes, well...the old
saying of if you want it done right do it yourself usually
holds.

But, quality control can be done...it is not simply a matter
of letting them pour and the hell with the results.

Apparently Ron is using the same trucks on the Soo caboose
as he did on the Santa Fe waycars he did (the Tichy leaf
sprung AAR double truss)...although the Athearn caboose
trucks are correct for many of these cars.

Bill Daniels

Oh, yes, Byron, Hereford is just south of Sierra Vista, and
I still don't have a clue as to why a SOO caboose is there,
but it is (many years ago I spent a year in Marquette,
Michigan, and saw these in person, so I know one when I see
one). Fire your travel agent.

Bill

> aside to Byron Rose...last time you were out this way
did
> you manage to see the SOO caboose down in Hereford?

Now it's my turn to GAASSSPPPP. Okay, where is Hereford
and why is there
a Soo Line caboose there? I guess that means I haven't
and it's another
reason to visit my sister in Phoenix. And remind me to
fire my travel
agent!

BSR

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Re: Storzek kits on Ebay

westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

Storzek/Des Plaines Valley RESIN
kits are the ones based on the NYC 1916 DS design.
We plan to do this sometime soon as many parts from the steel 1916 version
are identical. - Al Westerfield


Scanning Storzek cars

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Combining the two most popular topics today, I scanned a couple
of my resin cars built from Dennis Storzek's fine kits. Forgive
the model work, these are the first and second resin kits that I
ever built -- and the Rutland car is the first model that I ever
painted!

http://people.ne.mediaone.net/timoconnor/images/model_desplainesvalley_soo_and_rutland.jpg


Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


Re: AAR boxcar details

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

CNW 84300-86298 (A-3 Ride Control)
Even numbers only; 84300-85698 YSD-2; 85700-86298 7p SUP

NKP 7000-7299
Ajax hb; Apex rb; AAR double truss (similar to Tichy)

NKP 7300-7499
Ajax hb; Apex rb; ASF A-3

NP 29000-29499
Ajax hb; Apex rb; ASF A-3

NP 29500-29999 (AAR?)
Ajax hb; Apex rb; ASF A-3

NP 25000-25999
Ajax hb; Apex rb; ASF A-3

NYC 162000-163999
NYC 164000-164999
NYC 165000-165999
NYC 166000-166999 (AAR?)
My notes for the above 4 groups are all together; I can
say some had Apex running boards, Klasing handbrakes; I
don't know about trucks -- here are some references:

RMJ 11/1999 p.28 1948 builder photos NYC #165995
RMJ 11/1999 p.28 1947 builder photo NYC #164203
RMJ 11/1999 p.28 overhead view NYC #164166
RMJ 11/1999 p.28 1961 photo NYC #164282
RMJ 11/1999 p.27 1959 photo NYC #163671 w/ EQUIPCO brake
RMJ 11/1999 p.27 1962 photo NYC #162723
RMJ 10/1999 pp.43-51 Ed Hawkins' annotated roster
MM 6/1993 p.14 letter w/ builder photo #166539 plus notes
on brakes/roofwalks/doors
MM 5/1993 pp.50-52 FRONT RANGE kitbash
MM 8/1992 pp.38-39 McKean kitbash
RMJ 2/1990 pp.6-7,61 1958 color photo #166076
MRR 2/1989 p.30 1959 photo #163671

SP&S 11000-11499
10p rivet 4/4 IDE 8-rung ladders (11000-11249 had
Superior doors, 11250-11499 received Camel doors)
AJAX brakes ASF A-3 ride control trucks

11000-11124 rb APEX
11125-11249 rb BLAW KNOX
11250-11374 rb MORTON
11375-11499 rb GYPSUM


Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


Storzek kits on Ebay

byronrose@...
 

On Mon, 21 May 2001 22:29:36 -0700 <billd@gci-net.com> writes:
Regarding your comments about Ron and the old Storzek
kits...

<VBSIGH!!!>

It would be nice if...

but as you said, minimum wage labor is worth even less than
they earn...so it's good bye for these nice kits for the
immediate and forseeable future (although my crystal ball is
too dirty to see past tomorrow!)
I don't think this is a case of what you pay is what you get, I think
it's indicative of the state of our youth who just don't give a shit.
Both Al W and Martin L and Steve F have discovered that their product
lines are salable only, and I mean ONLY, when they do their own castings.
End of discussion.


If I remember correctly, the only Storzek kit that is in
limbo is the Soo Sawtooth box car. Accurail has done the CN
single sheathed boxcar (rather nicely if I do say myself)
and recently has done the USRA double-sheathed box, both in
relatively inexpensive styrene. And of course, the Soo
caboose is coming (some day).
You're playing loose with the facts here. Accurail has done A (sic) CN
box car, but since you haven't paid attention, I will break it to you
easy; it's not the same as Dennis's resin car. It's an earlier version
with a wood roof. Interestingly enough, the roof boards are not
distressed, as the sides and this writer are. I recall him saying he was
doing this on purpose to create a new car for modelers. Sounds like a
smart sales move to me.

They have also done a USRA d/s box car, but it bears no relation to
anything Dennis did earlier. Previous kits of same have been by Al W,
Steve F and ERTL. As nice an Athearn-type kit as it is, and I definitely
think it is, it still isn't in the A+ category of any of Dennis's resin
kits with it's cast on everything and semi-generic underframe. (Used
first on that CN car, and not entirely accurately, but nevertheless on
purpose.) (Okay, it started out as a modified USRA underframe used on a
redesigned Canadian clone, and now is used unchanged on a "true" USRA
car.)


Which leaves the Soo boxcar...who knows, maybe Dennis will
resurrect it as the next new Accurail car! Then I can sell
my Storzek kit for 50 bucks on eBay (didja see that the one
that was listed sold for almost 50 bucks?)
Would you really want to see it with scraggly looking siding and cast on
grab irons?

As for the wait on the Soo caboose...well, even the
Highliner A unit actually managed to finally get
released...only 14 years after it was announced (and yes, I
do have one...I waited 14 years for it, I deserve it, and
you bet I bought the first one I saw! Now I going to
actually have to build one of those B units I've stashed
away, so many years ago.), so, a couple of years isn't that
big a deal...although Dennis did the correct archbar truck
for the caboose which I don't think that Ron will reproduce
(but who knows?)
Ron is supposed to be doing a new truck for the caboose but might not be
what you want. The truck casting I saw with the collection of parts last
month was a "Bettendorf" type with leaf springs. The old Storzek trucks
should still be available from whoever bought all the old Walker parts.
BTW, the Des Plaines cast delrin end rails would make an easier job of
that part than the too delicate white metal castings that came with the
original Storzek kit.

> Bill Daniels
> Tucson, AZ

> aside to Byron Rose...last time you were out this way did
> you manage to see the SOO caboose down in Hereford?

Now it's my turn to GAASSSPPPP. Okay, where is Hereford and why is there
a Soo Line caboose there? I guess that means I haven't and it's another
reason to visit my sister in Phoenix. And remind me to fire my travel
agent!

BSR

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AAR boxcar details

Earl Tuson
 

Can anyone help identify trucks, hand brakes, and running boards on the
following series of AAR boxcars with 4/4 IDE?

CNW 84300-86298 (A-3 Ride Control)
NKP 7000-7299
NKP 7300-7499
NP 29000-29499
NP 29500-29999 (AAR?)
NP 25000-25999
NYC 162000-163999
NYC 164000-164999
NYC 165000-165999
NYC 166000-166999 (AAR?)
SP&S 11000-11499

I could find data for series CNW 142100-143698, in the 10/99 RMJ, while the
Freight Car Models Vol II was of limited value, only yielding a few truck ID's
and a hand brake I couldn't ID on NP 29756. Thank you very much for the help.

Earl Tuson

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Re: Wabash single sheathed automobile box car

ted_culotta@...
 

--- In STMFC@y..., fwj@m... wrote:
What do you folks think about someone like Sylvan Scale Models
making
this Wabash car as a single piece resin body casting? Of course,
I'm
referring to that same wonderful Canadian couple that brought us
the
Canadian National 1929 S/S in a single piece casting.

I have built one of the Wabash cars from Funaro & Camerlengo. No
offense to those folks, but being a Wabash modeler, I need quite a
few more at a lot less effort! I am willing to pay more for a
single
piece body casing and gather Westerfield and Sunshine Models may be
catching on.

I know that Sylvan Scale Models concentrates on Canadian prototypes
but uhhh... the Wabash ran in Canada too! They were such common
cars
in interchange service long after being used in automobile service.
To me even without the logo etc, this car says "WABASH". It appears
that the Central Vermont had similar cars.

Does anyone else out there think there is a market for this car,
particulary as a one piece casting? I haven't had a change to check
out what Accurail has but doubt if it is accurate.

Victor Baird
These are on Steve Funaro's schedule of kits to be updated to today's
standards for reissue. You may want to lobby him to make one-piece
versions. Also, the kits of the Milwaukee's single sheathed auto
cars that he released are on the same 'redo' list.

Ted Culotta


Re: Storzek kits on Ebay

ted_culotta@...
 

--- In STMFC@y..., "Bill Welch" <bwelch@u...> wrote:
Actually the Accurail kits are not the same cars Dennis did. The
Accurail SS car is the later CN car with metal roof and the Double
sheathed car was the NYC pre-WWI design that probably influenced the
USRA DS design. Al Westerfield has done the steel rebuilds of these
and will do the as built single sheathed cars eventually.

As far as I know, the NYC had two '1916' box car types. One was the
Storzek kit (a double sheathed box car) and the other is Al
Westerfield's (all steel as built). Both versions were rebuilt by
the NYC (obviously, to varying degrees since one rebuilding involved
replacing wood with steel, while the other involved plating over a
door).

Also, not mentioned yet in this thread, but clearly different is the
Storzek Rutland version of the NYC 1916 double sheathed car. These
had a different end than all other versions, thereby making them
unique kits in their own right. If I remember correctly, the
NYC/NKP/DSS&A versions had 7/7 indented Murphy ends while the Rutland
versions had 6/8 versions of the same end.

I for one would like to see both the NYC and NKP steel rebuilt
versions of the double sheathed cars. They are great looking cars.

Regards,
Ted Culotta


Wabash single sheathed automobile box car

fwj@...
 

What do you folks think about someone like Sylvan Scale Models making
this Wabash car as a single piece resin body casting? Of course, I'm
referring to that same wonderful Canadian couple that brought us the
Canadian National 1929 S/S in a single piece casting.

I have built one of the Wabash cars from Funaro & Camerlengo. No
offense to those folks, but being a Wabash modeler, I need quite a
few more at a lot less effort! I am willing to pay more for a single
piece body casing and gather Westerfield and Sunshine Models may be
catching on.

I know that Sylvan Scale Models concentrates on Canadian prototypes
but uhhh... the Wabash ran in Canada too! They were such common cars
in interchange service long after being used in automobile service.
To me even without the logo etc, this car says "WABASH". It appears
that the Central Vermont had similar cars.

Does anyone else out there think there is a market for this car,
particulary as a one piece casting? I haven't had a change to check
out what Accurail has but doubt if it is accurate.

Victor Baird

184501 - 184520 of 186156