Date   

Re: Canadian Freight Cars in The U.S.

Shawn Beckert
 

Garth Groff wrote:

So how big a roster are you thinking of? What
routes? Serving what industries?
I have, or am planning, for 2-3 boxcars for each
of the CN and CP out of about 250 cars for my
1950's Sacramento Northern.
Garth,

I'm attempting to model the Cotton Belt of the
late 1940's through 1950's into the mid-1960's.
I'd like to represent the region from East
St. Louis down to Shreveport, Louisiana.

Though mostly a bridge line, SSW did serve an
area that produced cotton, grain (mostly rice),
and lumber. Petroleum products came out of the
Shreveport area, but the majority of originating
traffic rode in boxcars.

My roster leans heavily to boxcars; I'm slowly
stockpiling the new SSW kits from Sunshine, as well
as PS-1's from Kadee. I think I should probably
follow your example and get half a dozen each of CN
and CP cars to throw in the mix. That should keep
the prototype police off my doorstep...

Shawn Beckert


Re: Canadian Freight Cars in The U.S.

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Shawn,

So how big a roster are you thinking of? What routes? Serving what
industries?

The two major Canadian roads had very large fleets of cars that
frequently roamed "south of the border", especially their boxcars. I'm
sure if you could get access to conductors' books or other documents of
that type, you would find that Canadian cars were more common than you
think.

But your idea of 5-6 is probably right for a large model collection. I
have, or am planning, for 2-3 boxcars for each of the CN and CP out of
about 250 cars for my 1950s Sacramento Northern.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff


"Beckert, Shawn" wrote:


List,

If one intends to model a southwestern U.S. railroad
in the late 1940's or 1950's era, how many Canadian
freight cars ought to be present? Two or three? More
than that? Yes, I've looked at photos; and no, I don't
see too many. Would it be safe to say maybe half a dozen
cars (probably boxcars) would suffice?

Shawn Beckert


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Re: Train Shed Cyclopedias

Ron Boham <spnut@...>
 

Tim,

You wrote:

Ron, the www.walthers.com web site lists each and every one at $15.95.
Either the web site is wrong*, or Walthers has seriously jacked up prices
since the 2001 catalog was printed.

( * Entirely possible -- the web site often mislists or misprices items. )
Let's hope so--as a general warning to the STMFC List, these were
not/are not worth $15.95 in mint condition. Leaving aside all of
Walther's problems, which give the appearance of an empire imploding
(try to buy a switch machine; yes, "Your dealer can get it from
Walthers."--he can order it and you'll wait months like the rest of
us.), I have never ordered anything from the catalog which came in at a
higher price than as-published. I believe they might have some problems
with the FTC if they didn't honor the printed price for the stated
period of the catalog. Anyway, these are very likely the same books
they've had on the shelf since Newton Gregg started this, since they've
never been completely out of the catalog.

Ron Boham


Canadian Freight Cars in The U.S.

Shawn Beckert
 

List,

If one intends to model a southwestern U.S. railroad
in the late 1940's or 1950's era, how many Canadian
freight cars ought to be present? Two or three? More
than that? Yes, I've looked at photos; and no, I don't
see too many. Would it be safe to say maybe half a dozen
cars (probably boxcars) would suffice?

Shawn Beckert


loading open top cars

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

I've started a section on our web site on loading open top cars, including
some of the 1919 diagrams, at

http://www.union.rpi.edu/railroad/images/rolling-stock/Flats/Open-top-loads.
html

I'll eventually add some of the photos from Clark's collection, and more
diagrams.

- John


Re: Balancing the roster - boxcars in the SE

thompson@...
 

Aidrian Bridgeman wrote:
This question is possibly skirting the dangerous waters of basic research,
but I wonder if there was a specific dominant car type that I should
consider adding to the building programme, whether scratchbuilt, kitbashed
or resin? Obviously the PRR XL series would possibly be a top candidate;
simply due to the sheer numbers built I'd expect a good many to have
filtered down to the South.
An awful lot of the XLs were burned for scrap in the early 1930s.
Remember Pennsy was then near the completion of building almost 30.000
X-29s.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


Re: Train Shed Cyclopedias

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

There is a '31 cyc on ebay right now still at a reasonable bid. This
book is not in great shape and collectors will never bid on it, but for
reference go for it. There are still some usable pieces of it left<VBG>.
#1186346413, current bid is $9.99. If you know how to repair books is might
be a great bargain.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax DCC owner, Chief system
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Poles

Jeff Aley - GCD PE <jaley@...>
 

On Sep 4, 8:43pm, Clark Propst wrote:
Subject: [STMFC] Poles
Jeez, I must have phrased my question correctly! Thanks everyone for
the overwhelming response.
One additional response (which I'm surprised nobody mentioned). Robert
Smaus did an article in RMC a few years ago that dealt with loading
freight cars. I believe his article was based on information he learned
in the AAR manual. Anyway, according to http://index.mrmag.com/ , the
article may be found in
[QUOTE]

Freight car loads
Railroad Model Craftsman, June 1995 page 50
( FLATCAR, GONDOLA, LOAD, "SMAUS, BOB", FREIGHTCAR, RMC )

[END QUOTE]

Regards,

-Jeff

--
Jeff Aley jaley@pcocd2.intel.com
DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


Re: Colo Sprgs

bobgang@...
 

In a message dated 9/4/01 7:16:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
timoconnor@mediaone.net writes:
Anyone know whose stone roundhouse is preserved about a mile or so west
of the D&RGW station? I noticed it only by accident, since it was located
next
to a tourist trap "Ghost Town".
Tim, It might have been the remains of the Colorado Midland/Midland Terminal
roundhouse. I was out there in '75 driving up the Ute Pass, (Highway #
forgotten) and it had been converted to a pottery barn.
Bob Gangwish


Re: Balancing the roster - boxcars in the SE

Guy Wilber
 

In a message dated 9/5/01 3:16:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
aidrian.bridgeman-sutton@ntlworld.com writes:

<< Brock's Theorem (regarding NP cars in one in
every ten trains) doesn't seem to hold in the SE, and I'm not sure that it
would be appropriate for the thirties either >>

Aidrian,

NP cars filled with Northwestern Douglas Fir were regular visitors to the
Southeast, very often returning with Southern hardwood products including;
oak flooring, mill work products, and veneers.

Regards,

Guy Wilber
Sparks, Nevada


Re: Poles

Guy Wilber
 

In a message dated 9/5/01 8:50:02 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
jaley@pcocd2.intel.com writes:

<< Robert
Smaus did an article in RMC a few years ago that dealt with loading
freight cars. I believe his article was based on information he learned
in the AAR manual. >>

Excellent article, though Bob did not cover pole loads.


Re: Train Shed Cyclopedias

kruegerp@...
 

I can't cite sources, but my recollection is that Gregg is no longer
publishing these and Stephans is now handling them at a higher price.
I'll have to follow up on some of these leads and see if I can fill
some holes in my collection at the old price. Thanks for the leads
guys!

Paul


Re: Last IC steam-powered freight?

kruegerp@...
 

From the book IC Steam Finale by Lloyd Stagner and Steve Lee, p10:

"Dieselization was completed during May 1959, however, traffic
increases put 10 steam engines to work on the Kentucky Division
between October 1959 and April 1960."

At the back of the same book, a note to the March 1, 1960 locomotive
assignments states that all steam was stored except
0-8-0s 3512, 3527, 3548, and 3559
2-10-2s 2739, 2802, 2807
4-8-2s 2524, 2613

Very nice book and relatively inexpensive. I recommend it for anyone
interested in IC steam. For a more specific answer, you may want to
try on of the IC groups here on Yahoo.

Paul
Seattle, WA


Re: Last IC steam-powered freight?

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

At 07:41 AM 9/5/01 -0400, you wrote:
When did the last steam-powered freight train operate on the Illinois Central
(Month, week, day)?

Any additional details on where it ran, the locomotive involved, etc. would
also be appreciated. Also, any info on the general pattern of steam
operation (districts, types of service, classes or specific locomotives
involved) on the IC near the end would also be helpful.
Chris, I can't directly answer your question, but I can tell you that
the IC Annual Report of 1955 or 1956 contains a prominent ad for freight
service featuring a steam locomotive. Sorry I can't be more specific now
as many of my books are in disarray since my house move...


Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Train Shed Cyclopedias

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 


I reiterate: try Walthers; my 2001 Walthers catalog devotes most of
page 953 to "Charles S. Gregg Publisher", listing most, if not all, of
issues 1-90 (I didn't count them). Prices listed vary from $2.50 for TS
27 to $5.95 for TS 20. Most are listed at $4.50 each, exactly what they
were when first published.
Ron, the www.walthers.com web site lists each and every one at $15.95.
Either the web site is wrong*, or Walthers has seriously jacked up prices
since the 2001 catalog was printed.

( * Entirely possible -- the web site often mislists or misprices items. )


Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Sterling, Massachusetts


Balancing the roster - boxcars in the SE

aidrian.bridgeman-sutton <aidrian.bridgeman-sutton@...>
 

Having been off work for a few days i have had time to study some of the
information on the RPI site. To John N. and the crew thank you for taking
the time to put this together.

Second I was mildly surprised at the general age of the freightcar fleet
during the steam period. In the UK we perhaps tend to assume that the US
roads were less inclined to hang on to older stock as time went by than
railways on this side of the water- that assumption is clearly wrong.

Points that I found interesting were that as late as 1936, 9% of the boxcar
fleet was of wooden, as opposed to composite, construction. The construction
dates were even more interesting - the site only gives data for the post war
period, but it does suggest that for a nineteen-thirties setting I need an
awful lot more cars from the pre WWI period than I had banked on,
particularly 36 foot box cars.

Obviously there's a need to get a look at ORERs from the period, though for
the time being this is likely to be restricted to the 1930 CD versions that
Al Westerfield sells - such things are very hard to find here.

The Southern Railway did get rid of a lot of old cars when the SU 36 footers
were delivered - any pre-WW2 picture of a Southern freight train will show a
few of these, which isn't suprising given the numbers that were built. The
odd Sunshine 40 footer will add some variety, but it would seem that perhaps
the Southern didn't retain quite as many older cars as some other roads
during the thirties. This doesn't help with other roads though.

Obviously there's aneed to adjust the building programme to take account of
this distribution of ages - fewer steel and composite cars and more cars in
wood and with truss rods seems to be the order of the day.

This question is possibly skirting the dangerous waters of basic research,
but I wonder if there was a specific dominant car type that I should
consider adding to the building programme, whether scratchbuilt, kitbashed
or resin? Obviously the PRR XL series would possibly be a top candidate;
simply due to the sheer numbers built I'd expect a good many to have
filtered down to the South. Brock's Theorem (regarding NP cars in one in
every ten trains) doesn't seem to hold in the SE, and I'm not sure that it
would be appropriate for the thirties either. Other possibilities include
the various Fowler cars though I'm not at all clear on geographical
distribution on these. Does anyone have any other strong favourites?

Thanks,
Aidrian


Re: Train Shed Cyclopedias

Ron Boham <spnut@...>
 

Paul Krueger wrote:

Ron, according to the Walthers web site, the price has gone up. The
Train Shed Cycs are now $15.95 and published by Stephans Railroad
History.

On eBay, the tend to go for $10+ and the online used book purveyors
are asking about $20 or so.

If anyone knows a source of these at $4.50, let us know!

Paul
I reiterate: try Walthers; my 2001 Walthers catalog devotes most of
page 953 to "Charles S. Gregg Publisher", listing most, if not all, of
issues 1-90 (I didn't count them). Prices listed vary from $2.50 for TS
27 to $5.95 for TS 20. Most are listed at $4.50 each, exactly what they
were when first published. I don't know which Stephans you are
referring to, but suspect it is "Ole Earl", a man who either is making
or made a career of cataloging and indexing the hobby press. The last
few sales flyers I received had a return address of Karen Stephens,
making me wonder if she sh#x-canned him, or he'd gone to his reward.
[He and Newton Gregg could collaborate on an angel cyclopedia in the
afterlife!]

Reiterating further, if you pay more than cover price for any of these,
you're nuts! My dealer, Frank McDonald of Scale Rail in Omaha, sells
the ones he's had on the counter for twenty years for the cover price to
anyone who wants one. He would probably order any listed in the
Walthers catalog, if someone asked. Any proper model railroad dealer,
i. e., no planes, rockets, model cars, ships, dungeons'n'dragons,
etcetera, and no chain stores like Hobbytown INC (heavy on the INC; some
of their stores have revolving doors on the "owners" entrance for the
number of people who plunked their money down to own a hobby shop only
to be whisked out after a year of Hobbytown's "help & counsel".), a good
place to buy train equipment and talk trains, may have some of these
around, or be able to get them for you.

I caution people about the price because I _do_ have them all,
purchasing Train Sheds because I despaired of ever being able to find
original cyclopedias. Silly me. Taking $4.50 as the average price,
4.50 x 90 = $405.00. The moral of this story is, if you want prototype
information, just go get it. When they tell you how much, take out your
wallet and hand it over. The last cyclopedias I saw for sale were in
the 250-300 range, so for what I wasted on Train Sheds, I could have had
1-2/3 real Simmons Boardman cycs. Keep shopping and sending off two or
three bucks for somebody's book list (see classified ads in Trains, MR,
RMC, and NG&SLG), so you're familiar with the going rate for an edition
you might be interested in. I went on and bought cyclopedias because
Gregg didn't reprint all the parts I wished to see. Let me save you at
least part of $405.00.
I bought my 1925 CBC for $200.00 on consignment, so bargains are out
there.

If something in a particular Train Shed grabs you or is your prototype
or whatever, and the price is $4.50, go for it. Otherwise, go for the
real thing. Many of the pictures repeat over the run, and, as Tony
Thompson pointed out in a previous post, not all the drawings are to
scale. Hope this helps put things in perspective.

Ron Boham


Last IC steam-powered freight?

CBarkan@...
 

When did the last steam-powered freight train operate on the Illinois Central
(Month, week, day)?

Any additional details on where it ran, the locomotive involved, etc. would
also be appreciated. Also, any info on the general pattern of steam
operation (districts, types of service, classes or specific locomotives
involved) on the IC near the end would also be helpful.

If you don't know the answer, but know who might, please pass on the contact
info.

Thanks, Chris Barkan <cbarkan@uiuc.edu>


Tim Gilbert's data now in file section

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Tim Gilbert sent me a message titled:

General characteristics as defined by the operating statistics of large
steam RRs in 1947-51. The information contains an analysis of RR frt car
distribution. Rather than reprint it here, I have uploaded it to the files
section of STMFC..it's rather large. This was also sent to the FCL so many
of you have no doubt noticed it there. Tim wasn't sure how to get it to the
STMFC through Yahoo.

Mike Brock


Re: Apologies & priorities

byronrose@...
 

OUCH ! ! !

BSR

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