Date   

Re: Storzek kits on Ebay

westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

Storzek/Des Plaines Valley RESIN
kits are the ones based on the NYC 1916 DS design.
We plan to do this sometime soon as many parts from the steel 1916 version
are identical. - Al Westerfield


Scanning Storzek cars

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Combining the two most popular topics today, I scanned a couple
of my resin cars built from Dennis Storzek's fine kits. Forgive
the model work, these are the first and second resin kits that I
ever built -- and the Rutland car is the first model that I ever
painted!

http://people.ne.mediaone.net/timoconnor/images/model_desplainesvalley_soo_and_rutland.jpg


Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


Re: AAR boxcar details

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

CNW 84300-86298 (A-3 Ride Control)
Even numbers only; 84300-85698 YSD-2; 85700-86298 7p SUP

NKP 7000-7299
Ajax hb; Apex rb; AAR double truss (similar to Tichy)

NKP 7300-7499
Ajax hb; Apex rb; ASF A-3

NP 29000-29499
Ajax hb; Apex rb; ASF A-3

NP 29500-29999 (AAR?)
Ajax hb; Apex rb; ASF A-3

NP 25000-25999
Ajax hb; Apex rb; ASF A-3

NYC 162000-163999
NYC 164000-164999
NYC 165000-165999
NYC 166000-166999 (AAR?)
My notes for the above 4 groups are all together; I can
say some had Apex running boards, Klasing handbrakes; I
don't know about trucks -- here are some references:

RMJ 11/1999 p.28 1948 builder photos NYC #165995
RMJ 11/1999 p.28 1947 builder photo NYC #164203
RMJ 11/1999 p.28 overhead view NYC #164166
RMJ 11/1999 p.28 1961 photo NYC #164282
RMJ 11/1999 p.27 1959 photo NYC #163671 w/ EQUIPCO brake
RMJ 11/1999 p.27 1962 photo NYC #162723
RMJ 10/1999 pp.43-51 Ed Hawkins' annotated roster
MM 6/1993 p.14 letter w/ builder photo #166539 plus notes
on brakes/roofwalks/doors
MM 5/1993 pp.50-52 FRONT RANGE kitbash
MM 8/1992 pp.38-39 McKean kitbash
RMJ 2/1990 pp.6-7,61 1958 color photo #166076
MRR 2/1989 p.30 1959 photo #163671

SP&S 11000-11499
10p rivet 4/4 IDE 8-rung ladders (11000-11249 had
Superior doors, 11250-11499 received Camel doors)
AJAX brakes ASF A-3 ride control trucks

11000-11124 rb APEX
11125-11249 rb BLAW KNOX
11250-11374 rb MORTON
11375-11499 rb GYPSUM


Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


Storzek kits on Ebay

byronrose@...
 

On Mon, 21 May 2001 22:29:36 -0700 <billd@gci-net.com> writes:
Regarding your comments about Ron and the old Storzek
kits...

<VBSIGH!!!>

It would be nice if...

but as you said, minimum wage labor is worth even less than
they earn...so it's good bye for these nice kits for the
immediate and forseeable future (although my crystal ball is
too dirty to see past tomorrow!)
I don't think this is a case of what you pay is what you get, I think
it's indicative of the state of our youth who just don't give a shit.
Both Al W and Martin L and Steve F have discovered that their product
lines are salable only, and I mean ONLY, when they do their own castings.
End of discussion.


If I remember correctly, the only Storzek kit that is in
limbo is the Soo Sawtooth box car. Accurail has done the CN
single sheathed boxcar (rather nicely if I do say myself)
and recently has done the USRA double-sheathed box, both in
relatively inexpensive styrene. And of course, the Soo
caboose is coming (some day).
You're playing loose with the facts here. Accurail has done A (sic) CN
box car, but since you haven't paid attention, I will break it to you
easy; it's not the same as Dennis's resin car. It's an earlier version
with a wood roof. Interestingly enough, the roof boards are not
distressed, as the sides and this writer are. I recall him saying he was
doing this on purpose to create a new car for modelers. Sounds like a
smart sales move to me.

They have also done a USRA d/s box car, but it bears no relation to
anything Dennis did earlier. Previous kits of same have been by Al W,
Steve F and ERTL. As nice an Athearn-type kit as it is, and I definitely
think it is, it still isn't in the A+ category of any of Dennis's resin
kits with it's cast on everything and semi-generic underframe. (Used
first on that CN car, and not entirely accurately, but nevertheless on
purpose.) (Okay, it started out as a modified USRA underframe used on a
redesigned Canadian clone, and now is used unchanged on a "true" USRA
car.)


Which leaves the Soo boxcar...who knows, maybe Dennis will
resurrect it as the next new Accurail car! Then I can sell
my Storzek kit for 50 bucks on eBay (didja see that the one
that was listed sold for almost 50 bucks?)
Would you really want to see it with scraggly looking siding and cast on
grab irons?

As for the wait on the Soo caboose...well, even the
Highliner A unit actually managed to finally get
released...only 14 years after it was announced (and yes, I
do have one...I waited 14 years for it, I deserve it, and
you bet I bought the first one I saw! Now I going to
actually have to build one of those B units I've stashed
away, so many years ago.), so, a couple of years isn't that
big a deal...although Dennis did the correct archbar truck
for the caboose which I don't think that Ron will reproduce
(but who knows?)
Ron is supposed to be doing a new truck for the caboose but might not be
what you want. The truck casting I saw with the collection of parts last
month was a "Bettendorf" type with leaf springs. The old Storzek trucks
should still be available from whoever bought all the old Walker parts.
BTW, the Des Plaines cast delrin end rails would make an easier job of
that part than the too delicate white metal castings that came with the
original Storzek kit.

> Bill Daniels
> Tucson, AZ

> aside to Byron Rose...last time you were out this way did
> you manage to see the SOO caboose down in Hereford?

Now it's my turn to GAASSSPPPP. Okay, where is Hereford and why is there
a Soo Line caboose there? I guess that means I haven't and it's another
reason to visit my sister in Phoenix. And remind me to fire my travel
agent!

BSR

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AAR boxcar details

Earl Tuson
 

Can anyone help identify trucks, hand brakes, and running boards on the
following series of AAR boxcars with 4/4 IDE?

CNW 84300-86298 (A-3 Ride Control)
NKP 7000-7299
NKP 7300-7499
NP 29000-29499
NP 29500-29999 (AAR?)
NP 25000-25999
NYC 162000-163999
NYC 164000-164999
NYC 165000-165999
NYC 166000-166999 (AAR?)
SP&S 11000-11499

I could find data for series CNW 142100-143698, in the 10/99 RMJ, while the
Freight Car Models Vol II was of limited value, only yielding a few truck ID's
and a hand brake I couldn't ID on NP 29756. Thank you very much for the help.

Earl Tuson

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Re: Wabash single sheathed automobile box car

ted_culotta@...
 

--- In STMFC@y..., fwj@m... wrote:
What do you folks think about someone like Sylvan Scale Models
making
this Wabash car as a single piece resin body casting? Of course,
I'm
referring to that same wonderful Canadian couple that brought us
the
Canadian National 1929 S/S in a single piece casting.

I have built one of the Wabash cars from Funaro & Camerlengo. No
offense to those folks, but being a Wabash modeler, I need quite a
few more at a lot less effort! I am willing to pay more for a
single
piece body casing and gather Westerfield and Sunshine Models may be
catching on.

I know that Sylvan Scale Models concentrates on Canadian prototypes
but uhhh... the Wabash ran in Canada too! They were such common
cars
in interchange service long after being used in automobile service.
To me even without the logo etc, this car says "WABASH". It appears
that the Central Vermont had similar cars.

Does anyone else out there think there is a market for this car,
particulary as a one piece casting? I haven't had a change to check
out what Accurail has but doubt if it is accurate.

Victor Baird
These are on Steve Funaro's schedule of kits to be updated to today's
standards for reissue. You may want to lobby him to make one-piece
versions. Also, the kits of the Milwaukee's single sheathed auto
cars that he released are on the same 'redo' list.

Ted Culotta


Re: Storzek kits on Ebay

ted_culotta@...
 

--- In STMFC@y..., "Bill Welch" <bwelch@u...> wrote:
Actually the Accurail kits are not the same cars Dennis did. The
Accurail SS car is the later CN car with metal roof and the Double
sheathed car was the NYC pre-WWI design that probably influenced the
USRA DS design. Al Westerfield has done the steel rebuilds of these
and will do the as built single sheathed cars eventually.

As far as I know, the NYC had two '1916' box car types. One was the
Storzek kit (a double sheathed box car) and the other is Al
Westerfield's (all steel as built). Both versions were rebuilt by
the NYC (obviously, to varying degrees since one rebuilding involved
replacing wood with steel, while the other involved plating over a
door).

Also, not mentioned yet in this thread, but clearly different is the
Storzek Rutland version of the NYC 1916 double sheathed car. These
had a different end than all other versions, thereby making them
unique kits in their own right. If I remember correctly, the
NYC/NKP/DSS&A versions had 7/7 indented Murphy ends while the Rutland
versions had 6/8 versions of the same end.

I for one would like to see both the NYC and NKP steel rebuilt
versions of the double sheathed cars. They are great looking cars.

Regards,
Ted Culotta


Wabash single sheathed automobile box car

fwj@...
 

What do you folks think about someone like Sylvan Scale Models making
this Wabash car as a single piece resin body casting? Of course, I'm
referring to that same wonderful Canadian couple that brought us the
Canadian National 1929 S/S in a single piece casting.

I have built one of the Wabash cars from Funaro & Camerlengo. No
offense to those folks, but being a Wabash modeler, I need quite a
few more at a lot less effort! I am willing to pay more for a single
piece body casing and gather Westerfield and Sunshine Models may be
catching on.

I know that Sylvan Scale Models concentrates on Canadian prototypes
but uhhh... the Wabash ran in Canada too! They were such common cars
in interchange service long after being used in automobile service.
To me even without the logo etc, this car says "WABASH". It appears
that the Central Vermont had similar cars.

Does anyone else out there think there is a market for this car,
particulary as a one piece casting? I haven't had a change to check
out what Accurail has but doubt if it is accurate.

Victor Baird


Re: Storzek kits on Ebay

bhom3@...
 

Bill Welch wrote:

Actually the Accurail kits are not the same cars Dennis did. The
Accurail SS car is the later CN car with metal roof and the Double
sheathed car was the NYC pre-WWI design that probably influenced the
USRA DS design. Al Westerfield has done the steel rebuilds of these
and will do the as built single sheathed cars eventually.


To clarify what Bill posted, the Storzek/Des Plaines Valley RESIN
kits are the ones based on the NYC 1916 DS design. The Accurail DS
kit *IS* based on the USRA DS boxcar.

Ben Hom


Re: Storzek kits on Ebay

billd@...
 

Geeze, guys...

I REALLY should look next time...

And I guess I won't be building my retirement portfolio
anytime soon after all with the proceeds from selling my
copies of these kits on eBay.

Bill


Re: Storzek kits on Ebay

Stafford F. Swain <sswain@...>
 

Hi:

Just to clarify, the Storzek resin CNR cars were the 500 wider and earlier ex-CGR grain service cars received from CC&F in 1917 with double board roofs (another 500 similar [different underframe, etc.] cars were also built by ECC at about the same time).

The Accurail cars were the 1923 to 1927 built 500500-503499 series which were narrower and which had Hutchins roofs.

Ken Goslett and I supplied Dennis with drawings of both versions years ago.

BTW, the above was drafted before I read Bill Welch's clarification message.

Regarding your comments about Ron and the old Storzek
kits...

<VBSIGH!!!>

It would be nice if...

but as you said, minimum wage labor is worth even less than
they earn...so it's good bye for these nice kits for the
immediate and forseeable future (although my crystal ball is
too dirty to see past tomorrow!)

If I remember correctly, the only Storzek kit that is in
limbo is the Soo Sawtooth box car. Accurail has done the CN
single sheathed boxcar (rather nicely if I do say myself)
and recently has done the USRA double-sheathed box, both in
relatively inexpensive styrene. And of course, the Soo
caboose is coming (some day).

Which leaves the Soo boxcar...who knows, maybe Dennis will
resurrect it as the next new Accurail car! Then I can sell
my Storzek kit for 50 bucks on eBay (didja see that the one
that was listed sold for almost 50 bucks?)

As for the wait on the Soo caboose...well, even the
Highliner A unit actually managed to finally get
released...only 14 years after it was announced (and yes, I
do have one...I waited 14 years for it, I deserve it, and
you bet I bought the first one I saw! Now I going to
actually have to build one of those B units I've stashed
away, so many years ago.), so, a couple of years isn't that
big a deal...although Dennis did the correct archbar truck
for the caboose which I don't think that Ron will reproduce
(but who knows?)

Bill Daniels
Tucson, AZ

aside to Byron Rose...last time you were out this way did
you manage to see the SOO caboose down in Hereford?

On Mon, 21 May 2001 21:49:22 -0400
byronrose@juno.com wrote:

On Fri, 18 May 2001 06:15:52 -0700 <billd@gci-net.com>
writes:

> I guess I'm just going to have to build mine up. I
actually
> like the car...and I wish that Des Plaines would
consider a
> re-release of the kit. (I don't know if they actually
did it
> once, but I know that they did get the kits from
Dennis)

Ron Sebastian of Des Plaines Hobbies did try to
manufacture the Storzek
line for several years after he bought it, but finally
gave up when he
found that disinterested minimum wage earners couldn't
pour good molds
much better than 30% of the time and modelers objected to
runs of bubbles
thruout a car side. And Ron hisself certainly wasn't
gonna sit down and
mix part A with part B and make perfect castings. So the
line
languishes. All except the Soo Line caboose which is
> rising from the
> resin ashes into a beautiful styrene butterfly which
> winks provocatively
> my way every time I walk thru the doors, but is now in
> its second year of
> being almost finished.
>
> There was a rumor about the Soo Line saw tooth box car
too, but if we
learn anything from history, assume that this is on a
HiLiners time
schedule.


> Anybody out there have any experience with
straightening out
> warped resin sides (these are the grey resin). I seem
to
> remember reading somewhere that all they need is to be
> heated up in an oven and they would straighten out (or
at
> least melt back...)

To answer your question, yes. To comment on your
comment, you probably
did but are afraid to try. Just remember that resin DOES
NOT melt back
into anything. It might just warp more. Try 150 for 7
minutes.

BSR
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26 Kenneth Street
Winnipeg, MB, Canada
R3T 0K8
(204) 477-9246
sswain@mts.net


Re: Storzek kits on Ebay

Bill Welch <bwelch@...>
 

Actually the Accurail kits are not the same cars Dennis did. The Accurail SS car is the later CN car with metal roof and the Double sheathed car was the NYC pre-WWI design that probably influenced the USRA DS design. Al Westerfield has done the steel rebuilds of these and will do the as built single sheathed cars eventually.

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 5/21/01, at 10:29 PM, billd@gci-net.com wrote:

If I remember correctly, the only Storzek kit that is in
limbo is the Soo Sawtooth box car. Accurail has done the CN
single sheathed boxcar (rather nicely if I do say myself)
and recently has done the USRA double-sheathed box, both in
relatively inexpensive styrene.

Bill Daniels
Tucson, AZ


Bill 'Welch <bwelch@uucf.org>
Associate Minister, Unitarian Universalist Congregation of Fairfax
P.O. Box 130 Oakton VA 22124 www.uucf.org
Telephone 703 281-4230 Fax 703 281-5399


Re: Storzek kits on Ebay

billd@...
 

Regarding your comments about Ron and the old Storzek
kits...

<VBSIGH!!!>

It would be nice if...

but as you said, minimum wage labor is worth even less than
they earn...so it's good bye for these nice kits for the
immediate and forseeable future (although my crystal ball is
too dirty to see past tomorrow!)

If I remember correctly, the only Storzek kit that is in
limbo is the Soo Sawtooth box car. Accurail has done the CN
single sheathed boxcar (rather nicely if I do say myself)
and recently has done the USRA double-sheathed box, both in
relatively inexpensive styrene. And of course, the Soo
caboose is coming (some day).

Which leaves the Soo boxcar...who knows, maybe Dennis will
resurrect it as the next new Accurail car! Then I can sell
my Storzek kit for 50 bucks on eBay (didja see that the one
that was listed sold for almost 50 bucks?)

As for the wait on the Soo caboose...well, even the
Highliner A unit actually managed to finally get
released...only 14 years after it was announced (and yes, I
do have one...I waited 14 years for it, I deserve it, and
you bet I bought the first one I saw! Now I going to
actually have to build one of those B units I've stashed
away, so many years ago.), so, a couple of years isn't that
big a deal...although Dennis did the correct archbar truck
for the caboose which I don't think that Ron will reproduce
(but who knows?)

Bill Daniels
Tucson, AZ

aside to Byron Rose...last time you were out this way did
you manage to see the SOO caboose down in Hereford?

On Mon, 21 May 2001 21:49:22 -0400
byronrose@juno.com wrote:

On Fri, 18 May 2001 06:15:52 -0700 <billd@gci-net.com>
writes:

I guess I'm just going to have to build mine up. I
actually
like the car...and I wish that Des Plaines would
consider a
re-release of the kit. (I don't know if they actually
did it
once, but I know that they did get the kits from
Dennis)

Ron Sebastian of Des Plaines Hobbies did try to
manufacture the Storzek
line for several years after he bought it, but finally
gave up when he
found that disinterested minimum wage earners couldn't
pour good molds
much better than 30% of the time and modelers objected to
runs of bubbles
thruout a car side. And Ron hisself certainly wasn't
gonna sit down and
mix part A with part B and make perfect castings. So the
line
languishes. All except the Soo Line caboose which is
rising from the
resin ashes into a beautiful styrene butterfly which
winks provocatively
my way every time I walk thru the doors, but is now in
its second year of
being almost finished.

There was a rumor about the Soo Line saw tooth box car
too, but if we
learn anything from history, assume that this is on a
HiLiners time
schedule.


Anybody out there have any experience with
straightening out
warped resin sides (these are the grey resin). I seem
to
remember reading somewhere that all they need is to be
heated up in an oven and they would straighten out (or
at
least melt back...)
To answer your question, yes. To comment on your
comment, you probably
did but are afraid to try. Just remember that resin DOES
NOT melt back
into anything. It might just warp more. Try 150 for 7
minutes.

BSR
________________________________________________________________
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Re: Storzek kits on Ebay

byronrose@...
 

On Fri, 18 May 2001 06:15:52 -0700 <billd@gci-net.com> writes:

I guess I'm just going to have to build mine up. I actually
like the car...and I wish that Des Plaines would consider a
re-release of the kit. (I don't know if they actually did it
once, but I know that they did get the kits from Dennis)
Ron Sebastian of Des Plaines Hobbies did try to manufacture the Storzek
line for several years after he bought it, but finally gave up when he
found that disinterested minimum wage earners couldn't pour good molds
much better than 30% of the time and modelers objected to runs of bubbles
thruout a car side. And Ron hisself certainly wasn't gonna sit down and
mix part A with part B and make perfect castings. So the line
languishes. All except the Soo Line caboose which is rising from the
resin ashes into a beautiful styrene butterfly which winks provocatively
my way every time I walk thru the doors, but is now in its second year of
being almost finished.

There was a rumor about the Soo Line saw tooth box car too, but if we
learn anything from history, assume that this is on a HiLiners time
schedule.


Anybody out there have any experience with straightening out
warped resin sides (these are the grey resin). I seem to
remember reading somewhere that all they need is to be
heated up in an oven and they would straighten out (or at
least melt back...)
To answer your question, yes. To comment on your comment, you probably
did but are afraid to try. Just remember that resin DOES NOT melt back
into anything. It might just warp more. Try 150 for 7 minutes.

BSR
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.


Storzek boxcars

Larry King <ab8180@...>
 

5-21-01

I'd like to see Sunshine or Des Plaines do those Soo boxcars again. If Mr
Lofton
wants to do more versions, there were some very similar ones owned by DT&I.
One of them is on display at Greenfield Village/Henry Ford Museum in
Dearborn MI

LR King


Old Storzek kits

Bill Welch <bwelch@...>
 

I think it is too bad Des Plaines has not kept these in periodic production but as far as SOO line kits are concerned, I know that Sunshine does want to offer their own version, plus the Missouri
Pacific Lines and Frisco versions too. Mentioning these to Martin can only speed this up in terms of getting them higher on his to do list. I have spoken to him but the more people he hears from about any model will spur him on.


Bill 'Welch <bwelch@uucf.org>
Associate Minister, Unitarian Universalist Congregation of Fairfax
P.O. Box 130 Oakton VA 22124 www.uucf.org
Telephone 703 281-4230 Fax 703 281-5399


Soo express reefer

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

I'm just writing a little more about the Athearn express reefers. Besides
what is wrong with the basic car body, their Soo scheme is on a Pullman
green body. From what I know, Soo used maroon as far back as pre-WWI, so
I'm guessing (but double-checking nonetheless) that this is wrong. (?)
- John

PS - On my previous message, I reread it and found out I'm missing a
question mark and a apostrophe, so here they are:

? '
I better not read it again. - JN


modern gons and tank cars vs. steam era

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

I've been trying to add information about modern HO scale freight cars to
our web site guide
( http://www.union.rpi.edu/railroad ). In looking at the Walthers Thrall
gons, my first thought is always, is there any kitbashing potential for
steam-era modelers. Of course the ends would have to be changed. But the
ribs themselves don't look like steam-era, and its not just the lack of
rivets.
The ribs look so much heavier. Is that because the cars have a great
weight capacity? I thought at first that might be the answer, but in
thinking about it, it seems that steam-era ribs were normally composed of
hat sections, which were a "T" in cross section (kind of), since this
allowed a flange on both sides for the rivets. With welding, it would seem
to make more sense to take the same amount of material as in a hat section
and fold it or extrude it in the shape of a square tube, which probably is
stronger. The flanges aren't needed as the ribs can be attached by welding
along both
sides. I guess that this idea extends back to steam era days on the ACF
type covered hopper.
Does this seem right? So it was the development of welding in this case
which changed things? Has anyone kitbashed ANY modern freight car into a
steam-era one? (There were a few welded gons c. 1950.)

On tank cars, in steam days, the different mainly between the Type 21
and 27 design was the length of the car, which implies that they
standardized on an underframe and then make the tank
bigger or smaller in diameter as needed. When they did away with the
underframe, it seems they standardized on the diameter of the tank, and made
it longer or shorter as needed. Which is why there are shorty "beer can"
type tanks, rather than making them longer, narrower, and not as funny
looking. So in this case, the beer can tanks were a result of frameless
construction.
It also seems that around 1955, they got stronger presses that could
stamp a very tight curve around the rim of the ends. A kit like the Athearn
62 foot tank car can't be used for any steam-era tank, even if cut down in
length, as the ends are too rounded. Does this sound right?

- John


Re: SP Box Car Models

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

At 08:40 PM 5/19/01 -0700, you wrote:
I recently learned from John Cathcart of the La Mesa Model RR Club (San
Diego Tehachapi Pass layout) that the club had a special run of Southern
Pacific box car models made by IMWX
Richard, Andy Carlson and/or Terry Wegmann brought these kits
with them to Naperville last year, or the year before (I forget
exactly when). They're very nice (I bought a couple) but other
than the special "return to" stencil and number series, they're
no different than kits offered by Red Caboose, which can be had
for much less. In fact, to borrow Tony Thompson's reasoning, the
stencil makes them "unusual" enough so that most modelers would
be well advised to avoid them, and stick with the RC kits!


Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


new southeastern decals available

Curt Fortenberry <arrphoto@...>
 

I've added a new hopper car decal to my listing.

WofA USRA clone 2 bay hopper, black car with white lettering.
Lettering is for the late 40's to 50's.

See the complete listing at: www.greatdecals.com/Curt.htm

Curt Fortenberry

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