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Re: loads

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 


Did you have to go out of your way to prove me a liar about all of us
being experts in the STMFC list?
Well, I used to be pert...


Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Loading Poles On Flatcars

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Jared,

Newton Gregg died several years ago. For a while his brother was trying
to keep the business going. I don't know its current status.

The TRAINSHED CYCLOPEDIAS used to be sold by Walthers. I no longer waste
money on their catalog, so I can't tell you if they are still there. The
last time I looked, many were missing from the list. You might try
Walthers' web site.

Used copies are common at swap meets.

It occurs to me that if these books are no longer in production, the
rights and plates might be for sale for someone wanting to get into the
publishing business.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Jared V Harper wrote:


Is there a good source for the Train Shed Cyclopedias?

Jared Harper


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Semet-Solvay tank cars - reprise

aidrian.bridgeman-sutton <aidrian.bridgeman-sutton@...>
 

A little while ago we discussed the operations of this company. At the time
I responded with what I thought was a reasonable proposal, that it would
have carried by products from the coking/gasification process, since the S-S
Co operated coking plants. There was another suggestion, which I think was
made by Tim O'Connor, and that the load was the end result of the soda ash
process.

I went away doing some thinking and didn't respond at the time, but I'm
having trouble with the soda solution. The problem is that as I understand
things, there were two related but distinct companies in the Allied Chemical
group - the Semet-Solvay Co and the Solvay Co. S-S owned and built coking
plants, whereas Solvay ran the processes that used the ammonia and other
byproducts from the S-S operated coking plants. The companies were related
but separately managed.

So....If the soda was shipped from the Solvay company's plant, why was it
shipped in a car operated by their supplier of raw materials? It still
strikes me that it is more probable that it was used for coke byproducts
coming *into* a Solvay Plant from an Semet-Solvay owned coking plant than a
shipment of finished soda products out.

There's a modelling objective here - S-S had a plant near Birmingham, AL,
though I don't yet know whether they had such cars in the early to middle
30s.

Aidrian


Re: Loading Poles On Flatcars

aidrian.bridgeman-sutton <aidrian.bridgeman-sutton@...>
 

Karen Stephans sold me a batch a while back - try RRhistory@charter.net

They have a book list as well which has been sufficiantly interesting as to
have caught my credit card unawares on a couple of occasions.

Aidrian

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jared V Harper" <harper-brown@juno.com>


Is there a good source for the Train Shed Cyclopedias?

Jared Harper


Re: An apology

Benjamin Hom <bhom3@...>
 

hicksco2@hotmail.com wrote, in part:

I have been one of a few people at IRM who have helped our president in the best way we could: by researching (please forgive the presumption) and assembling information about the history of every car. Unfortunately, no one in our Freight Car Department has been willing to take the time to put together these information packets. I have worked on researching electric cars, but as the "signing" of the electric collection nears completion I have turned my attention to other departments. I do not own any literature concerning freight cars and, although I have some interest in them, I had never
engrossed myself in the subject to any extent at all. This is why I lack even a basic knowledge of freight cars or research materials concerning them.


Not a single one of us were born experts on this subject, and we all had to start somewhere. I could not have written that prototype research article back in 1985 when I first started at RPI. Your work at IRM is certainly appreciated, and you have been put into an unenviable position by your colleagues in the Freight Car Department, who should be jumping at the chance to tell the stories behind these cars. Their reluctance to do this is hard to believe. Had we understood what you were up against, we certainly would have been more forgiving.

Please feel free to post further questions on your projects - collectively, we can ensure that the information that you present on the exhibits is correct and thorough. There are enough myths and urban legends around in this field of study that we can't afford to create more.


Ben Hom


Re: loads

byronrose@...
 

On Tue, 04 Sep 2001 01:19:16 -0400 "Tim O'Connor"
<timoconnor@mediaone.net> writes:
At 08:42 PM 9/3/01 -0700, you wrote:
Tim O'C sez:
... Also noticed quite a few gondola
loads of granite headed west on the B&A. Do you suppose Indiana
ran
out of granite and now has to import it?
Um, Tim, that's limestone that's quarried in Indiana.
So I was right, they did run out! Damn fools.

Tim,

Did you have to go out of your way to prove me a liar about all of us
being experts in the STMFC list?

BSR

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Re: An apology

byronrose@...
 

On Tue, 04 Sep 2001 02:38:19 -0000 hicksco2@hotmail.com writes:
I want to apologize to the entire STMFC group for my earlier posts
requesting vast amounts of information, much of it basic for experts
such as yourselves.
Dear Hickso2,

Apology accepted, at least by me. I am not speaking for the rest of the
STMFC group, but since IRM is one of my favorite places in the entire
world, and I do get to Chicago 3-4 times a year, I feel a need to respond
in some way.

Your problem was in your approach. If you had simply stated your case
and asked for help, I'm sure you would have been overwhelmed with it.
Many of our members are truly experts in many of the cars you have in
that little bit of heaven in Union. For instance, Richard Hendrickson
knows more about tank cars than any 4 people put together. I could say
the same for Tony Thompson and Pacific Fruit Express and Ted Culotta and
war emergency gondolas. I mention these three because they represent
three cars in your collection which I have spent many happy hours
crawling over. Of course there is also Dennis Storzak and Soo Line
boxcars, but Dennis isn't one of us, at least not yet.

So you have come to the right place. Now all you have to do is start
over again with your hat in your hand, maybe a slight bow of your head
and the results might surprise you.

Unfortunately, I am a jack of way too many trades and a master of damn
few, but I might be able to help with one or two, as long as you're in no
hurry.

I hope that the above isn't your real name.

Byron Rose



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Re: loads

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

At 08:42 PM 9/3/01 -0700, you wrote:
Tim O'C sez:
... Also noticed quite a few gondola
loads of granite headed west on the B&A. Do you suppose Indiana ran
out of granite and now has to import it?
Um, Tim, that's limestone that's quarried in Indiana.
So I was right, they did run out! Damn fools.


Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: loads

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

At 08:41 PM 9/3/01 -0700, you wrote:
And standing by the old D&RGW/
Rock Island station in Colorado Springs (now used as a shopping center)
Is this the fine stone structure that used to be a restaurant? If so, too
bad; it was a good meal as well as a superb trackside view.
Tony,

I think part of it is still a restaurant. There is a chain link fence
separating the building from the tracks, which may detract from the view.
I have many photos from the location in 1967-1968, and I can tell you it
looked a lot better back then...

I recommend the Iron Horse Cafe in Walsenberg BTW. Not much of a view but
the adjacent crossing gate gives you 20 seconds' warning. Good food too.


Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: loads

thompson@...
 

Tim O'C sez:
... Also noticed quite a few gondola
loads of granite headed west on the B&A. Do you suppose Indiana ran
out of granite and now has to import it?
Um, Tim, that's limestone that's quarried in Indiana.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


Re: loads

thompson@...
 

And standing by the old D&RGW/
Rock Island station in Colorado Springs (now used as a shopping center)
Is this the fine stone structure that used to be a restaurant? If so, too
bad; it was a good meal as well as a superb trackside view.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


Re: loads

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Byron, BSR, RPA, wrote

To get serious for a moment, and only a moment, the NMRA Bulletin has
been running a very long series on flat car loads.
Having just got back from vacationing via Amtrak, I can say that the
BNSF (CB&Q) from Chicago to Galesburg to Omaha to Denver seems to be
a goldmine of open loads -- I must have seen 40-50 flat car loads of
Caterpillars and Deeres from my trains. And standing by the old D&RGW/
Rock Island station in Colorado Springs (now used as a shopping center)
I saw a BNSF train pass by with 2 flat cars carrying Boeing 737 bodies.

Coming home, a CSXT (nee Conrail/PC/NYC/Boston & Albany) westbound at
Springfield Massachusetts had a car loaded with 20 foot hardwood logs.
Probably headed for a veneer mill... Also noticed quite a few gondola
loads of granite headed west on the B&A. Do you suppose Indiana ran
out of granite and now has to import it?


Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Sterling, Massachusetts


New members

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Tony Thompson writes:

Awhile back I explained the STMFC list to both Hawkins and Chris Barkan. I
agree with Ben: we oughta issue 'em a personal invite. Mike?
Certainly I would be delighted to see both Ed and Chris in the STMFC. And
I'll add both Eric Neubauer and Ian Cranstone. Checking the current list of
members, I find none of them enrolled. I know for certain that I sent Ed an
invitation when I sent out invitations to those I thought might be
interested. I thought I had also sent an invite to Chris. Checking my Inbox
message archive I find...uh oh...a message from Chris saying that he'd like
to join. I have no idea what happened. I know it took me a week to get Bill
Welch in. I will definitely enroll Chris and send him an explanation. Of
course it could be a Yahoo issue. As far as the others, I don't want to
impose on people....particularly those I don't know. I don't have Eric or
Ian's addresses. I do have Ed's and have had many cordial discussions with
him. I'll send Ed a message inviting him to join. I would appreciate
supporting messages from, perhaps, Tony. Dave, perhaps you might approach
Ian and Eric...or anyone else who knows them. Thanks for suggesting this.

Mike Brock


An apology

hicksco2@...
 

I want to apologize to the entire STMFC group for my earlier posts
requesting vast amounts of information, much of it basic for experts
such as yourselves. I would have apologized earlier, however I have
not had access to the Internet for several days and have been quite
busy.

I must admit that I am not one of the original, or early, members of
this group. Indeed, I only joined recently. Also, I have to admit
that I joined this group primarily for the reason of obtaining
information that I did not know how to get for myself. I have no
expertise in the area of freight cars, and as such did not expect
that I had much to offer the group.

My explanation, although a poor excuse for wasting your time, is
this. I am a volunteer at the Illinois Railway Museum and, unlike
many of our workers, I am not engrossed in one particular project or
one particular department/type of railway equipment. In fact, I am a
volunteer in the Electric Car Department. I work on trolleys!
Recently, our president decided to embark on the enormous project of
creating display signs for each and every piece of equipment in our
museum (over 400 cars). He has spent countless hours over the past
year and a half creating these 2'x3' metal signs that allow our
visitors, many of whom can't tell a caboose from a boxcab diesel, to
understnd what the purpose of these cars was.

I have been one of a few people at IRM who have helped our president
in the best way we could: by researching (please forgive the
presumption) and assembling information about the history of every
car. Unfortunately, no one in our Freight Car Department has been
willing to take the time to put together these information packets.
I have worked on researching electric cars, but as the "signing" of
the electric collection nears completion I have turned my attention
to other departments. I do not own any literature concerning freight
cars and, although I have some interest in them, I had never
engrossed myself in the subject to any extent at all. This is why I
lack even a basic knowledge of freight cars or research materials
concerning them.

My only excuse is one of well-intentioned ignorance. I wished simply
to do what I could to help educate people, and I did not intend my
posts as any sort of direct order or challenge. I figured that
people who wanted to could respond, and those who didn't wouldn't
have to. What I ignored was the fact that the information I was
asking for was not only great in amount, but was many times so
elementary that it served as an insult to the expertise of the
members of this group. I posted not as an equal, but as an outsider
trying to leach off of the abilities of others. I sincerely
apologize not only for this, but for causing so much argument among
the more talented members of this group. I sincerely hope that I did
not permanently injure any relationships, or lower anyone's opinions
of anyone else except myself.

Finally, I want to sincerely thank those who helped by supplying some
fo the information I was lacking. I can say only that your help was
neither forgotten nor in vain; while my questions were patronizing,
your willingness to answer them will help in the education of the
75,000-odd people who visit IRM each year. If anyone would like to
continue helping me, or is interested in continuing research on our
CRDX boxcars or any other particular project which intrigued you,
just e-mail me. Otherwise, I will no longer be posting on this group.

Thank you for your patience.


Re: A Thank You

byronrose@...
 

On Mon, 03 Sep 2001 11:02:20 -0500 Clark Propst <cepropst@rconnect.com>
writes:

Now for another question! I've been looking at my picture books,
but
haven't been able to locate a photo of a flat car load of poles.
Other
items on flat cars seem to be just laid down with stakes driven into
the
side pockets to hold the load parallel. Is this all there is to it?
Clark
Clark,

To get serious for a moment, and only a moment, the NMRA Bulletin has
been running a very long series on flat car loads. Usually about 6-10
photos per issue and 10-12 issues per year. Off the top of my head, most
stuff was newer era, i.e. 60' + cars, but I believe the smaller loads
were covered earlier in the series, perhaps 6-8 years ago. I couldn't
even begin to find any of mine because I generally file them in bags and
toss 'em in the basement. I get the darn thing because I became a life
member 40 years ago, and occasionally they print something worthwhile
between the biffies and the tractive effort tests. Those load articles
have been it during the past decade.

But I don't want to sound like I'm dissing the NMRA, after all, they were
responsible for the Kadee coupler, weren't they?

Also note that even though the biffies (outhouses to the unwashed)
haven't been an issue for at least 25 years, it's what most people
remember about the NMRA. Lesson: be careful what you say, people have
loooong memories.

BSR, philosopher and (half) wit


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Re: Loading Poles On Flatcars

thompson@...
 

Chuck Friedlein wrote:
You also might want to check out the NMRA Bulletin. Over the past few years
they've bee running a lot of article about open loads...
This is true, but the great majority, if not all, of the articles have
been about very recent loads. If one is interested in, say, the 1950s,
there is some danger that recent practice is not entirely appplicable.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


Re: Loading Poles On Flatcars

Norm Dresner <ndrez@...>
 

I've bought over 2 dozen on eBay in the last two years.

Norm

----- Original Message -----
From: Jared V Harper <harper-brown@juno.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: Loading Poles On Flatcars


Is there a good source for the Train Shed Cyclopedias?

Jared Harper


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Re: Loading Poles On Flatcars

Chuck Friedlein <ironhorse4935@...>
 

Clark,
You also might want to check out the NMRA Bulletin. Over the past few years
they've bee running a lot of article about open loads. They cover loads for
flats, gons, and just about any type of car where you can think of that's
open to the elements in some way and that you can see whatever is in it,
even if it's just the tarp thrown over whatever the load is and tied down.
Not that I can remember off the top of my head, but they've had some pretty
unusual loads written up with not only prototype photos, but also "how to"
articles on making them in scale.

Chuck Friedlein

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Boham" <spnut@qwest.net>
To: "STMFC" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 1:11 PM
Subject: [STMFC] RE: Loading Poles On Flatcars


Clark Propst wrote:

I've been looking at my picture books, but
haven't been able to locate a photo of a flat car load of poles. Other
items on flat cars seem to be just laid down with stakes driven into the
side pockets to hold the load parallel.
Clark,

Check the N. Gregg Train Shed Cyc #36 (1919 CBD), pages 1100-1116.
There are diagrams on how to load almost any lading into almost any
car. I checked my 1925 CBC, but it does not include this section,
although similar guides have probably been published elsewhere.

Poles (and pipe) require intermediate stringers as the load gets higher,
and the side stakes must be secured across the top of the load, as well
as having the load secured to the car deck.

Pole loading isn't so tough. Now Lithuanians, that's another
story.......Sorry--I just had to get that in before Brock or O'Connor
beat me to it.

Ron Boham




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Re: Loading Poles On Flatcars

byronrose@...
 

On Mon, 03 Sep 2001 12:11:06 -0500 Ron Boham <spnut@qwest.net> writes:

Pole loading isn't so tough. Now Lithuanians, that's another
story.......Sorry--I just had to get that in before Brock or
O'Connor
beat me to it.

Ron Boham

Thank you Ron, whoever you are, I feel much better now.

BSR
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Re: Loading Poles On Flatcars

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

The Train Shop in San Jose, CA had a bunch the last time I was there. I
don't know which ones.

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