Date   

Photo: Gondolas (1937)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Gondolas (1937)

A photo from the Huntington Library:

https://hdl.huntington.org/digital/collection/p16003coll2/id/31550/rec/1164

Click on the arrow and scroll to enlarge the photo.

These cars were bringing materials to construct the Boulder-Chino Electric Transmission Line.

The first gondola is ATSF 170543 (?). This is a class Ga-8 gondola, a forty-eight-foot mill gondola built in 1923 by Pullman-Standard in an order for 300 cars. It appears that Santa Fe started rebuilding the 299 remaining cars in 1945. Their numbers rapidly dwindled from 285 in 1953 to 58 in 1956. Only four were left by 1965.

Some very good photos of Ga-8 cars appear in Hendrickson’s Santa Fe Open Top Cars, beginning on Page 141.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Suggest A Model To Rapido Trains

Bob Chaparro
 

Suggest A Model To Rapido Trains

An announcement from Craig Walker at Rapido Trains.

Bob Chaparro

Moderator

Model Railroads of Southern California

https://groups.io/g/ModelRailroadsofSoCalif

++++

Rapido Trains has added an online form for suggesting new models for us to consider.

And it works really well!  We can sort the replies in various ways, for example, to ascertain which models are getting the most requests, or which scales are most in demand for a particular model, and several other ways, too, that I have now forgotten.  

So, please feel free to use this to suggest anything - and I do mean anything! - that you would like to see us produce!

Here is the link:  https://form.jotform.com/210555532174249

And don't worry if you asked for a few things and forgot some - there is no time limit on this.

Craig


Re: Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

Bruce Smith
 

Richard,

Great stuff! It would appear that the converter cars were to handle the power plant trains. It is interesting that they were moved on the rail, presumably using US gauge trucks, and presumably having their trucks swapped to 5' gauge at some point.

I note that at least 2 of the 70-ton NYC flats for hauling the locomotives appear to be in "captive" service, with instructions to return with loading devices (rails, etc...) intact. These cars were then NOT in the national pool. Very interesting. 

I also note the speed limits of 30 mph for locos and 25 mph for the power plants. 

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Richard Wilkens <railsnw123@...>
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2021 11:31 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
Hi All,

The material Paul Hobbs used in creation of his article came from the SP&S Railway Historical Society Archives and this comes from SP&S File 272-17-3 "Exports to Russia".

I have attached a few letters from this file which are for the locomotives and the power trains. Besides the PRR "converter cars" (cars with knuckle couplers one end and Willison couplers on the other end) there were also DL&W cars setup this way.

Richard Wilkens

Editor "The Northwest's Own Railway"
Archivist, SP&S Railway Historical Society


New Haven TOFC Clinic

Peter Ness
 

With a lot of help I've been able to piece together a more complete set of information on the latter-era New Haven Trailer Cars (beginning about 1956).

I've added a P-S general arrangement diagram for the Clejans and some new prototype photos, a model photo and a few more period ads from trucking companies that the New Haven served.

You can find the clinic here: https://sites.google.com/view/newhavenrailroad1959/tofc-service-on-the-new-haven-clinic

If you have even passing interest in Northeast Piggyback operations (or trucking companies) between the late 1930's to 1960, you may find something of interest.

Please note my website is moved as the 15 year long free hosting I've enjoyed ceases to exist in a couple of weeks. 

Enjoy,
Peter Ness


Re: Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

Richard Wilkens
 

Hi All,

The material Paul Hobbs used in creation of his article came from the SP&S Railway Historical Society Archives and this comes from SP&S File 272-17-3 "Exports to Russia".

I have attached a few letters from this file which are for the locomotives and the power trains. Besides the PRR "converter cars" (cars with knuckle couplers one end and Willison couplers on the other end) there were also DL&W cars setup this way.

Richard Wilkens

Editor "The Northwest's Own Railway"
Archivist, SP&S Railway Historical Society


Re: Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

Dennis Storzek
 

On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 07:16 PM, mel perry wrote:
ny particular reason, that the 2-8-0's were shipped built from the factory,
and the 2-10-0's were shipped in kit
form to the POE, and then assembled?
The 2-10-0's were tall locomotives built to Russian loading gauge, essentially copies of the "Russian Decapods" that were stranded in the US by the Bolshevik Revolution twenty five years before. They'd easily tower 19 or 20 feet over the rail if loaded assembled on a standard flat.. The 2-8-0's were tiny, built to fit British loading gauge; you can see the difference in the low domes and placement of the cab.

Dennis Storzek
 


Re: [EXT] Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

Jim Gates
 

Since this was an over trimmed post, I'm guessing you are referring to the photograph of the 0-6-0T locomotives.

The only model identification I have seen is specification T.1531. 1290 was built by Davenport in 1942, builder number 2420.

Jim Gates

On Wednesday, March 10, 2021, 01:08:46 AM CST, Jim and Barbara van Gaasbeek <jvgbvg@...> wrote:


Are those S100 class?

 

 

Jim van Gaasbeek

Irvine, CA

 

 


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Thank you, Garth!

 

Yes, they look like PRR F30A.  Bruce’s dialog was also instructive.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 5:21 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

 

Elden,

 

Something like these two photos? Based on what Gary said, these are probably Baldwins since they are on Pennsylvania flat cars. So are they going to Russia, or to western Europe? Don't know. I would vote for Russia, since they seemed to like decapods. The two photos come from a War Department publication on WWII U.S. Army transportation in all forms that I found in the U.S. Govt Documents section at the UVA Library where I worked. Yes, they are public domain.

 

Makes me wonder if better photos might be found in the National Archives.

 

Yours Aye,

 

 

Garth Groff  🦆

 

On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 2:12 PM Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

Gary;

 

Any photos of the gons or flat cars?

 

Thanks!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of gary laakso
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 1:39 PM
To: 'stmfc' <realstmfc@groups.io>
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

 

Paul Hobbs wrote a lengthy article in the Winter 2021 issue of The Northwest’s Own Railroad on the 200 built 2-8-0s in the 5’-0” Russian gauge delivered to SP&S for shipment to the USSR via Vladivostok  followed by 1,500 2-10-0 “kits” for assembly by Willamette Iron and Steel Company and ending with steam boilered electric power generation multi car units.

 

The carriers supplying the flat cars to the locomotive builders controlled the routing with ALCO products going via NYC, EJE, CBQ, GN, SPS.  NYC used their flatcars numbered 499213, 499346, 499778, 499136, 499260 and 499676 hauled a shipment of 8 2-8-0s.  All were 52’-6” flatcars of 140,000 lbs. capacity.  Shipments of locomotives from Baldwin were routed PRR, CB&Q to the S. Paul connections.  The decapod kits were shipped on 3 flat cars and the dock area was regauged to 5’-0” to hold them awaiting freighters.  The article notes that ships to Vladivostok did not travel in convoys and were regularly inspected by the Imperial Japanese Navy at sea.   

 

The electric power plants were in 3-car, 8-car and 10-car units.  The ten car consist had two locomotive boiler cars, two coal tenders, one turbine, one condenser, one switch gear car, three cooling water tower cars, one maintenance and crew quarters car,   The units were built by Westinghouse, GE and ACF with Russian couplers  (requiring two PRR gondolas as converter cars)and spare Russian gauge trucks to be added at the port.    The first 10-car power train was routed ACF Berwick, DLW, NKP, CBQ, NP, SPS.  While the first train was allowed to move at 40 mph, all those that followed were limited to 25 mph.   The trains also included up to 6 cars of parts plus the replacement trucks.

 

Other routings included ACK Berwick, DLW, NYC, CNW, NP SPS with gondolas used including PMCKY 92323, 91587, RDG 23964, PLE 43777, 48581 and THB (! )2217. 

 

This is a meaty issue of the SP&S quarterly. 

 

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock


Re: [EXT] Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

Jim and Barbara van Gaasbeek
 

Are those S100 class?

 

 

Jim van Gaasbeek

Irvine, CA

 

 


Re: Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

gary laakso
 

Yes, that is the division between kits and assembled at the factory.  Records don’t show the reason, though the size and weight of the locomotive likely would have required scarce special flatcars.  The docks used for the decapod storage until vessels were available was 5’-0” gauge.

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of mel perry
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 7:16 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

 

any particular reason, that the 2-8-0's were shipped built from the factory,

and the 2-10-0's were shipped in kit

form to the POE, and then assembled?

thanks

;-)

mel perry

 

On Tue, Mar 9, 2021, 10:39 AM gary laakso <vasa0vasa@...> wrote:

Paul Hobbs wrote a lengthy article in the Winter 2021 issue of The Northwest’s Own Railroad on the 200 built 2-8-0s in the 5’-0” Russian gauge delivered to SP&S for shipment to the USSR via Vladivostok  followed by 1,500 2-10-0 “kits” for assembly by Willamette Iron and Steel Company and ending with steam boilered electric power generation multi car units.

 

The carriers supplying the flat cars to the locomotive builders controlled the routing with ALCO products going via NYC, EJE, CBQ, GN, SPS.  NYC used their flatcars numbered 499213, 499346, 499778, 499136, 499260 and 499676 hauled a shipment of 8 2-8-0s.  All were 52’-6” flatcars of 140,000 lbs. capacity.  Shipments of locomotives from Baldwin were routed PRR, CB&Q to the S. Paul connections.  The decapod kits were shipped on 3 flat cars and the dock area was regauged to 5’-0” to hold them awaiting freighters.  The article notes that ships to Vladivostok did not travel in convoys and were regularly inspected by the Imperial Japanese Navy at sea.   

 

The electric power plants were in 3-car, 8-car and 10-car units.  The ten car consist had two locomotive boiler cars, two coal tenders, one turbine, one condenser, one switch gear car, three cooling water tower cars, one maintenance and crew quarters car,   The units were built by Westinghouse, GE and ACF with Russian couplers  (requiring two PRR gondolas as converter cars)and spare Russian gauge trucks to be added at the port.    The first 10-car power train was routed ACF Berwick, DLW, NKP, CBQ, NP, SPS.  While the first train was allowed to move at 40 mph, all those that followed were limited to 25 mph.   The trains also included up to 6 cars of parts plus the replacement trucks.

 

Other routings included ACK Berwick, DLW, NYC, CNW, NP SPS with gondolas used including PMCKY 92323, 91587, RDG 23964, PLE 43777, 48581 and THB (! )2217. 

 

This is a meaty issue of the SP&S quarterly. 

 

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock


Re: Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

mel perry
 

any particular reason, that the 2-8-0's were shipped built from the factory,
and the 2-10-0's were shipped in kit
form to the POE, and then assembled?
thanks
;-)
mel perry

On Tue, Mar 9, 2021, 10:39 AM gary laakso <vasa0vasa@...> wrote:

Paul Hobbs wrote a lengthy article in the Winter 2021 issue of The Northwest’s Own Railroad on the 200 built 2-8-0s in the 5’-0” Russian gauge delivered to SP&S for shipment to the USSR via Vladivostok  followed by 1,500 2-10-0 “kits” for assembly by Willamette Iron and Steel Company and ending with steam boilered electric power generation multi car units.

 

The carriers supplying the flat cars to the locomotive builders controlled the routing with ALCO products going via NYC, EJE, CBQ, GN, SPS.  NYC used their flatcars numbered 499213, 499346, 499778, 499136, 499260 and 499676 hauled a shipment of 8 2-8-0s.  All were 52’-6” flatcars of 140,000 lbs. capacity.  Shipments of locomotives from Baldwin were routed PRR, CB&Q to the S. Paul connections.  The decapod kits were shipped on 3 flat cars and the dock area was regauged to 5’-0” to hold them awaiting freighters.  The article notes that ships to Vladivostok did not travel in convoys and were regularly inspected by the Imperial Japanese Navy at sea.   

 

The electric power plants were in 3-car, 8-car and 10-car units.  The ten car consist had two locomotive boiler cars, two coal tenders, one turbine, one condenser, one switch gear car, three cooling water tower cars, one maintenance and crew quarters car,   The units were built by Westinghouse, GE and ACF with Russian couplers  (requiring two PRR gondolas as converter cars)and spare Russian gauge trucks to be added at the port.    The first 10-car power train was routed ACF Berwick, DLW, NKP, CBQ, NP, SPS.  While the first train was allowed to move at 40 mph, all those that followed were limited to 25 mph.   The trains also included up to 6 cars of parts plus the replacement trucks.

 

Other routings included ACK Berwick, DLW, NYC, CNW, NP SPS with gondolas used including PMCKY 92323, 91587, RDG 23964, PLE 43777, 48581 and THB (! )2217. 

 

This is a meaty issue of the SP&S quarterly. 

 

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock


Re: [EXT] Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

John Barry
 

The National Archives at San Bruno holds records from the Office of  Defense Transportation Liquid Transport Department.  Among the files are records of tank car movements of asphalt to Hanford Washington, 100 octane aviation gasoline from Richmond to Reno, and the attached correspondence about cars of linseed oil routed to Dorward at Richmond via the Santa Fe.  Dorward had a tank terminal at Point San Pablo on the Richmond Belt and handled consolidation of more than a few tanker loads destined to Vladivostok as the Soviets took advantage of their neutrality towards Japan to move much lend-lease material from the west coast via a supply line out of reach of the Germans.  In addition to the locomotives and other rolling stock (some of which shipped from California ports) other commodities moved by rail for transhipment in freighters and tankers included several shipments of alcohol. In some cases, distillers shipped direct to Richmond, in others, the Commodity Credit Corporation transferred trainloads of stored product from Baton Rouge Louisianna to Richmond to meet the Soviet tankers.     




Inline image

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA


707-490-9696 






On Tuesday, March 9, 2021, 08:42:44 PM EST, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:


Garth,

Nice photo of the decapod kits!  

While it certainly is likely that home road cars were used for these loads, it is by no means a rule. Thus, Baldwin built S160s could be loaded on ANY available flat car, without concern about car service rules. 

Here's a photo of USA S160/Sha class #93 and tender. The engine is on a NYC flat. The tender is on an ATSF flat (40 ton). I'm pretty sure that they were loaded at the same place 😉 Now, you're going to say Aha!  #93 is on a NYC flat, it must be an Alco product! And you would be right that it is an Alco product. Sha 1-89 were Baldwin, Sha 90-148 (class USA/TC S166) were Alco, and Sha 149-199 (class USA/TC S162) were also Alco.

Here are a few photos that Gary posted links to 9 years ago, from the Museum at the University of Montana, purportedly passing through Missoula. These are Sha 24 and 25 on PRR F30A flats. These are Baldwin built (wait, that's disproving my point about random flats!). Unfortunately, the links from that message are dead, but fortunately, I downloaded the photos. Note the tenders loaded in gons.

BTW, a great resource on all of these locos is "Allied Military Locomotives of the Second World War, by R. Tourret, Tourret Publishing. 

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 4:20 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
Elden,

Something like these two photos? Based on what Gary said, these are probably Baldwins since they are on Pennsylvania flat cars. So are they going to Russia, or to western Europe? Don't know. I would vote for Russia, since they seemed to like decapods. The two photos come from a War Department publication on WWII U.S. Army transportation in all forms that I found in the U.S. Govt Documents section at the UVA Library where I worked. Yes, they are public domain.

Makes me wonder if better photos might be found in the National Archives.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆


Re: [EXT] Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

Tom Madden
 

This Ralph Hallock photo from the Colorado RR Museum collection shows three 0-6-0T locomotives on a B&A freight at Chatham NY in 1944. (Month and day not specified.) Ralph's caption:
"0-6-0T tank engines bound for Russia on a B&A train at Chatham NY". 

The lead flat is Milwaukee Road car and has an overhanging deck. Can't make out the road name of the second flat but it has a flush deck

Tom Madden


Re: [EXT] Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

Jim Gates
 

Locomotives to Russia in WWII (actually into 1946):

90 S160 2-8-0 to Russia
50 S162 2-8-0 to Russia
60 S166 2-8-0 to Russia
10 Porter 0-4-0T to Russia
20 Porter 0-6-0T to Russia
15 Porter narrow gauge 0-8-0 to Russia
1 Porter 0-8-0 to Russia
2060 2-10-0 to Russia
50 Alco RSC1 to Russia
8 Whitcomb 4 wheel switchers

Numbers from a spreadsheet I put together from same book.

Jim Gates

On Tuesday, March 9, 2021, 07:42:43 PM CST, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:


Garth,

Nice photo of the decapod kits!  

While it certainly is likely that home road cars were used for these loads, it is by no means a rule. Thus, Baldwin built S160s could be loaded on ANY available flat car, without concern about car service rules. 

Here's a photo of USA S160/Sha class #93 and tender. The engine is on a NYC flat. The tender is on an ATSF flat (40 ton). I'm pretty sure that they were loaded at the same place 😉 Now, you're going to say Aha!  #93 is on a NYC flat, it must be an Alco product! And you would be right that it is an Alco product. Sha 1-89 were Baldwin, Sha 90-148 (class USA/TC S166) were Alco, and Sha 149-199 (class USA/TC S162) were also Alco.

Here are a few photos that Gary posted links to 9 years ago, from the Museum at the University of Montana, purportedly passing through Missoula. These are Sha 24 and 25 on PRR F30A flats. These are Baldwin built (wait, that's disproving my point about random flats!). Unfortunately, the links from that message are dead, but fortunately, I downloaded the photos. Note the tenders loaded in gons.

BTW, a great resource on all of these locos is "Allied Military Locomotives of the Second World War, by R. Tourret, Tourret Publishing. 

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 4:20 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
Elden,

Something like these two photos? Based on what Gary said, these are probably Baldwins since they are on Pennsylvania flat cars. So are they going to Russia, or to western Europe? Don't know. I would vote for Russia, since they seemed to like decapods. The two photos come from a War Department publication on WWII U.S. Army transportation in all forms that I found in the U.S. Govt Documents section at the UVA Library where I worked. Yes, they are public domain.

Makes me wonder if better photos might be found in the National Archives.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆


Re: [EXT] Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

Bruce Smith
 

Garth,

Nice photo of the decapod kits!  

While it certainly is likely that home road cars were used for these loads, it is by no means a rule. Thus, Baldwin built S160s could be loaded on ANY available flat car, without concern about car service rules. 

Here's a photo of USA S160/Sha class #93 and tender. The engine is on a NYC flat. The tender is on an ATSF flat (40 ton). I'm pretty sure that they were loaded at the same place 😉 Now, you're going to say Aha!  #93 is on a NYC flat, it must be an Alco product! And you would be right that it is an Alco product. Sha 1-89 were Baldwin, Sha 90-148 (class USA/TC S166) were Alco, and Sha 149-199 (class USA/TC S162) were also Alco.

Here are a few photos that Gary posted links to 9 years ago, from the Museum at the University of Montana, purportedly passing through Missoula. These are Sha 24 and 25 on PRR F30A flats. These are Baldwin built (wait, that's disproving my point about random flats!). Unfortunately, the links from that message are dead, but fortunately, I downloaded the photos. Note the tenders loaded in gons.

BTW, a great resource on all of these locos is "Allied Military Locomotives of the Second World War, by R. Tourret, Tourret Publishing. 

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 4:20 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
Elden,

Something like these two photos? Based on what Gary said, these are probably Baldwins since they are on Pennsylvania flat cars. So are they going to Russia, or to western Europe? Don't know. I would vote for Russia, since they seemed to like decapods. The two photos come from a War Department publication on WWII U.S. Army transportation in all forms that I found in the U.S. Govt Documents section at the UVA Library where I worked. Yes, they are public domain.

Makes me wonder if better photos might be found in the National Archives.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Elden,

Something like these two photos? Based on what Gary said, these are probably Baldwins since they are on Pennsylvania flat cars. So are they going to Russia, or to western Europe? Don't know. I would vote for Russia, since they seemed to like decapods. The two photos come from a War Department publication on WWII U.S. Army transportation in all forms that I found in the U.S. Govt Documents section at the UVA Library where I worked. Yes, they are public domain.

Makes me wonder if better photos might be found in the National Archives.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 2:12 PM Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

Gary;

 

Any photos of the gons or flat cars?

 

Thanks!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of gary laakso
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 1:39 PM
To: 'stmfc' <realstmfc@groups.io>
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

 

Paul Hobbs wrote a lengthy article in the Winter 2021 issue of The Northwest’s Own Railroad on the 200 built 2-8-0s in the 5’-0” Russian gauge delivered to SP&S for shipment to the USSR via Vladivostok  followed by 1,500 2-10-0 “kits” for assembly by Willamette Iron and Steel Company and ending with steam boilered electric power generation multi car units.

 

The carriers supplying the flat cars to the locomotive builders controlled the routing with ALCO products going via NYC, EJE, CBQ, GN, SPS.  NYC used their flatcars numbered 499213, 499346, 499778, 499136, 499260 and 499676 hauled a shipment of 8 2-8-0s.  All were 52’-6” flatcars of 140,000 lbs. capacity.  Shipments of locomotives from Baldwin were routed PRR, CB&Q to the S. Paul connections.  The decapod kits were shipped on 3 flat cars and the dock area was regauged to 5’-0” to hold them awaiting freighters.  The article notes that ships to Vladivostok did not travel in convoys and were regularly inspected by the Imperial Japanese Navy at sea.   

 

The electric power plants were in 3-car, 8-car and 10-car units.  The ten car consist had two locomotive boiler cars, two coal tenders, one turbine, one condenser, one switch gear car, three cooling water tower cars, one maintenance and crew quarters car,   The units were built by Westinghouse, GE and ACF with Russian couplers  (requiring two PRR gondolas as converter cars)and spare Russian gauge trucks to be added at the port.    The first 10-car power train was routed ACF Berwick, DLW, NKP, CBQ, NP, SPS.  While the first train was allowed to move at 40 mph, all those that followed were limited to 25 mph.   The trains also included up to 6 cars of parts plus the replacement trucks.

 

Other routings included ACK Berwick, DLW, NYC, CNW, NP SPS with gondolas used including PMCKY 92323, 91587, RDG 23964, PLE 43777, 48581 and THB (! )2217. 

 

This is a meaty issue of the SP&S quarterly. 

 

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock


Re: Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

Bruce Smith
 

Gary, Elden, Folks,

Unless you have some evidence, I highly doubt that the carriers supplying the flat cars controlled the routing. There are several reasons for this.

1) Shippers controlled the routing (usually).
2) During WWII, car service rules were suspended for flat cars, so car owners no longer had any control over the movement of their cars. 
3) If anyone was dictating routes for war materiel, other than the shipper, it would have been the ODT (Office of Defense Transportation).

Shipments of the S160 type locomotive (2-8-0) were common to both coasts. ALCo, Baldwin, and Lima all contributed. With the release of the Roco S160 a few years back, I got more serious about modeling this traffic, as the previous S160 in HO was a kit from DJH, but both cost in the range of $300+ and that does seem a bit steep for a flat car load, where I plan to gut the electronics and motor ;) (so if anyone has a Roco S160 that blew its guts… let me know!

I have numerous photos of these loads. I downloaded 5 or so photos that were from links to the museum of U of Montana, posted by you, Gary, to this list, back on March 16, 2012 - so I’m not sure why you told Elden there were no photos ;) I’ll post some when I get home tonight. I also remember that there is a photo in DeNevi’s book America's Fighting Railroads: A World War II Pictorial History.

BTW, these were called the Sha class by the Soviets. 

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Mar 9, 2021, at 12:38 PM, gary laakso <vasa0vasa@...> wrote:

CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn. 
Paul Hobbs wrote a lengthy article in the Winter 2021 issue of The Northwest’s Own Railroad on the 200 built 2-8-0s in the 5’-0” Russian gauge delivered to SP&S for shipment to the USSR via Vladivostok  followed by 1,500 2-10-0 “kits” for assembly by Willamette Iron and Steel Company and ending with steam boilered electric power generation multi car units.
 
The carriers supplying the flat cars to the locomotive builders controlled the routing with ALCO products going via NYC, EJE, CBQ, GN, SPS.  NYC used their flatcars numbered 499213, 499346, 499778, 499136, 499260 and 499676 hauled a shipment of 8 2-8-0s.  All were 52’-6” flatcars of 140,000 lbs. capacity.  Shipments of locomotives from Baldwin were routed PRR, CB&Q to the S. Paul connections.  The decapod kits were shipped on 3 flat cars and the dock area was regauged to 5’-0” to hold them awaiting freighters.  The article notes that ships to Vladivostok did not travel in convoys and were regularly inspected by the Imperial Japanese Navy at sea.   
 
The electric power plants were in 3-car, 8-car and 10-car units.  The ten car consist had two locomotive boiler cars, two coal tenders, one turbine, one condenser, one switch gear car, three cooling water tower cars, one maintenance and crew quarters car,   The units were built by Westinghouse, GE and ACF with Russian couplers  (requiring two PRR gondolas as converter cars)and spare Russian gauge trucks to be added at the port.    The first 10-car power train was routed ACF Berwick, DLW, NKP, CBQ, NP, SPS.  While the first train was allowed to move at 40 mph, all those that followed were limited to 25 mph.   The trains also included up to 6 cars of parts plus the replacement trucks.
 
Other routings included ACK Berwick, DLW, NYC, CNW, NP SPS with gondolas used including PMCKY 92323, 91587, RDG 23964, PLE 43777, 48581 and THB (! )2217.  
 
This is a meaty issue of the SP&S quarterly.  
 
 
Gary Laakso
Northwest of Mike Brock


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Thanks, Gary!

 

I am always interested in freight cars being used in less common usage.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of gary laakso
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 2:20 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

 

Elden:

 

None.

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 11:12 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io; 'stmfc' <realstmfc@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

 

Gary;

 

Any photos of the gons or flat cars?

 

Thanks!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of gary laakso
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 1:39 PM
To: 'stmfc' <realstmfc@groups.io>
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

 

Paul Hobbs wrote a lengthy article in the Winter 2021 issue of The Northwest’s Own Railroad on the 200 built 2-8-0s in the 5’-0” Russian gauge delivered to SP&S for shipment to the USSR via Vladivostok  followed by 1,500 2-10-0 “kits” for assembly by Willamette Iron and Steel Company and ending with steam boilered electric power generation multi car units.

 

The carriers supplying the flat cars to the locomotive builders controlled the routing with ALCO products going via NYC, EJE, CBQ, GN, SPS.  NYC used their flatcars numbered 499213, 499346, 499778, 499136, 499260 and 499676 hauled a shipment of 8 2-8-0s.  All were 52’-6” flatcars of 140,000 lbs. capacity.  Shipments of locomotives from Baldwin were routed PRR, CB&Q to the S. Paul connections.  The decapod kits were shipped on 3 flat cars and the dock area was regauged to 5’-0” to hold them awaiting freighters.  The article notes that ships to Vladivostok did not travel in convoys and were regularly inspected by the Imperial Japanese Navy at sea.   

 

The electric power plants were in 3-car, 8-car and 10-car units.  The ten car consist had two locomotive boiler cars, two coal tenders, one turbine, one condenser, one switch gear car, three cooling water tower cars, one maintenance and crew quarters car,   The units were built by Westinghouse, GE and ACF with Russian couplers  (requiring two PRR gondolas as converter cars)and spare Russian gauge trucks to be added at the port.    The first 10-car power train was routed ACF Berwick, DLW, NKP, CBQ, NP, SPS.  While the first train was allowed to move at 40 mph, all those that followed were limited to 25 mph.   The trains also included up to 6 cars of parts plus the replacement trucks.

 

Other routings included ACK Berwick, DLW, NYC, CNW, NP SPS with gondolas used including PMCKY 92323, 91587, RDG 23964, PLE 43777, 48581 and THB (! )2217. 

 

This is a meaty issue of the SP&S quarterly. 

 

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

gary laakso
 

Elden:

 

None.

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 11:12 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io; 'stmfc' <realstmfc@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

 

Gary;

 

Any photos of the gons or flat cars?

 

Thanks!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of gary laakso
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 1:39 PM
To: 'stmfc' <realstmfc@groups.io>
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

 

Paul Hobbs wrote a lengthy article in the Winter 2021 issue of The Northwest’s Own Railroad on the 200 built 2-8-0s in the 5’-0” Russian gauge delivered to SP&S for shipment to the USSR via Vladivostok  followed by 1,500 2-10-0 “kits” for assembly by Willamette Iron and Steel Company and ending with steam boilered electric power generation multi car units.

 

The carriers supplying the flat cars to the locomotive builders controlled the routing with ALCO products going via NYC, EJE, CBQ, GN, SPS.  NYC used their flatcars numbered 499213, 499346, 499778, 499136, 499260 and 499676 hauled a shipment of 8 2-8-0s.  All were 52’-6” flatcars of 140,000 lbs. capacity.  Shipments of locomotives from Baldwin were routed PRR, CB&Q to the S. Paul connections.  The decapod kits were shipped on 3 flat cars and the dock area was regauged to 5’-0” to hold them awaiting freighters.  The article notes that ships to Vladivostok did not travel in convoys and were regularly inspected by the Imperial Japanese Navy at sea.   

 

The electric power plants were in 3-car, 8-car and 10-car units.  The ten car consist had two locomotive boiler cars, two coal tenders, one turbine, one condenser, one switch gear car, three cooling water tower cars, one maintenance and crew quarters car,   The units were built by Westinghouse, GE and ACF with Russian couplers  (requiring two PRR gondolas as converter cars)and spare Russian gauge trucks to be added at the port.    The first 10-car power train was routed ACF Berwick, DLW, NKP, CBQ, NP, SPS.  While the first train was allowed to move at 40 mph, all those that followed were limited to 25 mph.   The trains also included up to 6 cars of parts plus the replacement trucks.

 

Other routings included ACK Berwick, DLW, NYC, CNW, NP SPS with gondolas used including PMCKY 92323, 91587, RDG 23964, PLE 43777, 48581 and THB (! )2217. 

 

This is a meaty issue of the SP&S quarterly. 

 

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Gary;

 

Any photos of the gons or flat cars?

 

Thanks!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of gary laakso
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 1:39 PM
To: 'stmfc' <realstmfc@groups.io>
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

 

Paul Hobbs wrote a lengthy article in the Winter 2021 issue of The Northwest’s Own Railroad on the 200 built 2-8-0s in the 5’-0” Russian gauge delivered to SP&S for shipment to the USSR via Vladivostok  followed by 1,500 2-10-0 “kits” for assembly by Willamette Iron and Steel Company and ending with steam boilered electric power generation multi car units.

 

The carriers supplying the flat cars to the locomotive builders controlled the routing with ALCO products going via NYC, EJE, CBQ, GN, SPS.  NYC used their flatcars numbered 499213, 499346, 499778, 499136, 499260 and 499676 hauled a shipment of 8 2-8-0s.  All were 52’-6” flatcars of 140,000 lbs. capacity.  Shipments of locomotives from Baldwin were routed PRR, CB&Q to the S. Paul connections.  The decapod kits were shipped on 3 flat cars and the dock area was regauged to 5’-0” to hold them awaiting freighters.  The article notes that ships to Vladivostok did not travel in convoys and were regularly inspected by the Imperial Japanese Navy at sea.   

 

The electric power plants were in 3-car, 8-car and 10-car units.  The ten car consist had two locomotive boiler cars, two coal tenders, one turbine, one condenser, one switch gear car, three cooling water tower cars, one maintenance and crew quarters car,   The units were built by Westinghouse, GE and ACF with Russian couplers  (requiring two PRR gondolas as converter cars)and spare Russian gauge trucks to be added at the port.    The first 10-car power train was routed ACF Berwick, DLW, NKP, CBQ, NP, SPS.  While the first train was allowed to move at 40 mph, all those that followed were limited to 25 mph.   The trains also included up to 6 cars of parts plus the replacement trucks.

 

Other routings included ACK Berwick, DLW, NYC, CNW, NP SPS with gondolas used including PMCKY 92323, 91587, RDG 23964, PLE 43777, 48581 and THB (! )2217. 

 

This is a meaty issue of the SP&S quarterly. 

 

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock

1881 - 1900 of 184475