Date   

Re: D8 Bulldozer as a Flat Car Load

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

I “think” this is/was the old Canon kit, which may have ended up with RGM. The few photos i’ve seen all exhibit the same qualities and problems. The body was quite nice, but the tracks were very poor, and undersized. perhaps RGM has corrected this?

The “RD” denoted a tractor equipped with a gasoline engine, as opposed to the "D” tractors that were strictly Diesel. The RD8 is otherwise the same tractor as the early D8.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Sep 13, 2018, at 11:09 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...> wrote:

One model that has not been mentioned  is a very good Carerpillar RD-8 from a company called Evergreen Hill Designs.  This is a white metal kit.  The company is long gone (as are so many) but they come up on E-bay.  Good thing I bought two as the wheel/track casting was defective on one (Sound familiar?).  There is not a blade on this model so it fits great on a flat car

Bill Pardie




Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Bill Welch <fgexbill@...>
Date: 9/13/18 4:15 PM (GMT-10:00)
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] D8 Bulldozer as a Flat Car Load

Thank you everyone for your responses. I have to admit with so many things to build the fact that the Artitech D7 is ready to put on a flat car deck is very appealing.

Bill Welch


Re: D8 Bulldozer as a Flat Car Load

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

Indeed. Already partly disassembled and crated for shipment ... a ready made flatcar load, and very nicely done.

The D7 is small enough that an assembled tractor can also be shipped, depending on the blade width. Artitech also make such with a LeTourneau blade and rear winches … just add tie-downs and blocking.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Sep 13, 2018, at 10:15 PM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

Thank you everyone for your responses. I have to admit with so many things to build the fact that the Artitech D7 is ready to put on a flat car deck is very appealing.

Bill Welch


Re: D8 Bulldozer as a Flat Car Load

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

I didn’t mention the Wespe D7 kits (1/48 and 1/87) since they’re not genberally available from model RR suppliers. I have each, and they do look good as kits, but I’ve not built either yet.

The RGM RD8 appears to be the old Canon kit. The body is nice, but the tracks look poor and undersized.

I did forget the RGM Cat-60, a very early tractor but a nice model. These old warhorses lasted a LONG time, so are suitable for most any period except dead-modern. They built a lot of them, and they’re very popular restoration projects. Many often show up at antique tractor meets.

And, if you want to go back even earlier, somebody (RGM?) also makes a Holt half-track tractor, and a steam crawler tractor.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Sep 13, 2018, at 8:16 PM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

Daniel, Bill,

One other alternative is the Wespe resin kit 87070, US Dozer "Le Tourneau" which is claimed in the instructions to be a "1936Cat RD-4 equipped with an R.G. LeTourneau XC4 Angledozer  blade attachment. The blade has overhead rigging like the GHQ.

Being resin, the Wespe weighs slightly more than the air it displaces, compared to the GHQ. I have yet to build it.  I have 2 GHQ D8s that I have yet to build as well, but the parts on all are nicely detailed. I look forward to building them and shipping a couple of new US Army (or maybe Navy SeaBee?) dozers and then one that has seen some heavy work.

 Rio Grande Models have a BEST Model 60 with blade and a CAT RD-8​. They also​ have some different cast metal construction loads.  I have a few of those!  http://www.riograndemodels.com/HO.htm   

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2018 6:46 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] D8 Bulldozer as a Flat Car Load
 
The only other possibilities are the old Canon RD8, not bad, but the tracks are undersized. The Woodland Scenics Cat is styled as a D8, but is about the size of a D6. First Gear offers an IH TD-25 which is decent. The best of the lot are some from Overland Models (“stretch” D8’s) and Classic Construction Models (modern D9 & D11), but these get very expensive. CCM’s D11 is about $400!

Daniel Mitchell
===========
On Sep 13, 2018, at 7:34 PM, Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@...> wrote:

Yes, it’s a fine little HO model ... there are two versions, with and without the blade. It’s the best D8 available in HO. Also consider the excellent D7 from Artitech, also in two versions (w/blade, & as a new tractor being delivered).

Dan Mitchell
==========
On Sep 13, 2018, at 6:22 PM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

Can anyone give personal experience building the GHQ D8 Bulldozer? I am thinking of it as a flat car load. Curious if it builds into a nicely detailed model: https://www.ebay.com/i/192326959275?chn=ps

Thank you,
Bill Welch 




Re: D8 Bulldozer as a Flat Car Load

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

Yes, but it’s NOT a D7 ... the styling makes it strictly a D8, but it’s way undersized. The D7 looks altogether different than a D8 of the period. Artitech makes a very nice HO D7, and it’s quite a bit larger than the Woodland Scenics dozer. The WS model is about the size of a D6 or even a D5. I have a couple that I pretend are D6’s in logging use … fortunately the styling here is similar.
 
Dan Mitchell
==========

On Sep 13, 2018, at 8:07 PM, Jon Miller <atsfus@...> wrote:

On 9/13/2018 4:34 PM, Daniel A. Mitchell wrote:
Also consider the excellent D7 from Artitech, also in two versions (w/blade, & as a new tractor being delivered).

Also see if the Woodland Scenics Bulldozer Cat D-7 Tractor Kit HO D233 is still available!

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, 
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: D8 Bulldozer as a Flat Car Load

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

The CCM D11 is a beautiful model, all brass construction, with working scale link tracks. You’d have to partially disassemble it to make a flat car load, it’s a BIG tractor. However, for $400, I doubt many will end up as flat car loads! The CCM D9 is a "solid” brass model with cast-on tracks … but still it looks good, and is a lot less expensive (but still not cheap).

I also forgot the Kibri Komatsu 575 (about $60 as a plastic kit). This is a model of the world’s largest production dozer, a real monster, and strictly a modern machine. Some of these are in use in the USA. The prototype production of the Komatsu 575 has ceased, so the Cat D11 is now the largest dozer being made.

There was a one-off dozer by ACCO that was even larger than the Komatsu 575, but it’s never actually been used, and is just an oddity.

There are also a few European dozer models available.

Dredging deeper, Norscott (Diecast Masters) also has a modern D9, but it’s rubber-band tracks look poor, and it can’t be compared to the others mentioned previously. The body could be salvaged it you could somehow make better tracks.

And going WAY back, Roco (MiniMovers) had a plastic ‘earlier’ style D9 that wasn’t too bad. A little added detail and a good paint job and it doesn’t make a bad load. Then there were the old Matchbox tractor models wih rubber-band tracks.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Sep 13, 2018, at 8:02 PM, Jeff <jeffshultz@...> wrote:

On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 4:46 PM Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@...> wrote:

The only other possibilities are the old Canon RD8, not bad, but the tracks are undersized. The Woodland Scenics Cat is styled as a D8, but is about the size of a D6. First Gear offers an IH TD-25 which is decent. The best of the lot are some from Overland Models (“stretch” D8’s) and Classic Construction Models (modern D9 & D11), but these get very expensive. CCM’s D11 is about $400!
For $400 that thing ought to excavate my front yard for landscaping as
well as look good on a flatcar.

--
Jeff Shultz
http://www.shultzinfosystems.com
A railfan approaches a grade crossing hoping that there will be a train.



Re: Actual Burlington SM-18 cars

Bruce Smith
 

​Armand,


Why is it hard to believe?  I assume that this is a mopac stock car? Lots of evidence of occasional midwest and even far west stock cars venturing east.


Regards,

Bruce

Bruce Smith

Auburn, Al


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Armand Premo <arm.p.prem@...>
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2018 5:57 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Actual Burlington SM-18 cars
 
Hard to believe,but MP52181 showed  up in Alburgh ,Vt on 11/11/50 on train #9.Armand Premo

On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 9:17 PM, James SANDIFER <steve.sandifer@...> wrote:

http://sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun54a.pdf

 

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@....io] On Behalf Of Jack Mullen
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2018 7:50 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Actual Burlington SM-18 cars

 

Ron,
No, not Mathers. With the similar SM-16 they were Burlington's standard stock car of the period between the wars. In lieu of proto photos, here's a liink to Rails Unlimited's O scale stock car page (scroll down a bit) with proto info and nice models. 
http://railsunlimited.ribbonrail.com/Models/special.html
  
The SM-16s were covered in MM many years ago, with drawings and TWO construction articles iirc.

Jack Mullen



Re: Actual Burlington SM-18 cars

Armand Premo
 

Hard to believe,but MP52181 showed  up in Alburgh ,Vt on 11/11/50 on train #9.Armand Premo

On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 9:17 PM, James SANDIFER <steve.sandifer@...> wrote:

http://sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun54a.pdf

 

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@....io] On Behalf Of Jack Mullen
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2018 7:50 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Actual Burlington SM-18 cars

 

Ron,
No, not Mathers. With the similar SM-16 they were Burlington's standard stock car of the period between the wars. In lieu of proto photos, here's a liink to Rails Unlimited's O scale stock car page (scroll down a bit) with proto info and nice models. 
http://railsunlimited.ribbonrail.com/Models/special.html
  
The SM-16s were covered in MM many years ago, with drawings and TWO construction articles iirc.

Jack Mullen



Re: D8 Bulldozer as a Flat Car Load

Richard Townsend
 

Don't overlook the Rio Grande Models RD-8, Letourneau dozer, and their trencher, among other wonderful construction equipment models.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Smith <smithbf@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Sep 13, 2018 5:16 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] D8 Bulldozer as a Flat Car Load

Daniel, Bill,

One other alternative is the Wespe resin kit 87070, US Dozer "Le Tourneau" which is claimed in the instructions to be a "1936Cat RD-4 equipped with an R.G. LeTourneau XC4 Angledozer  blade attachment. The blade has overhead rigging like the GHQ.

Being resin, the Wespe weighs slightly more than the air it displaces, compared to the GHQ. I have yet to build it.  I have 2 GHQ D8s that I have yet to build as well, but the parts on all are nicely detailed. I look forward to building them and shipping a couple of new US Army (or maybe Navy SeaBee?) dozers and then one that has seen some heavy work.

 Rio Grande Models have a BEST Model 60 with blade and a CAT RD-8​. They also​ have some different cast metal construction loads.  I have a few of those!  http://www.riograndemodels.com/HO.htm   

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2018 6:46 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] D8 Bulldozer as a Flat Car Load
 
The only other possibilities are the old Canon RD8, not bad, but the tracks are undersized. The Woodland Scenics Cat is styled as a D8, but is about the size of a D6. First Gear offers an IH TD-25 which is decent. The best of the lot are some from Overland Models (“stretch” D8’s) and Classic Construction Models (modern D9 & D11), but these get very expensive. CCM’s D11 is about $400!

Daniel Mitchell
===========
On Sep 13, 2018, at 7:34 PM, Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@...> wrote:

Yes, it’s a fine little HO model ... there are two versions, with and without the blade. It’s the best D8 available in HO. Also consider the excellent D7 from Artitech, also in two versions (w/blade, & as a new tractor being delivered).

Dan Mitchell
==========
On Sep 13, 2018, at 6:22 PM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

Can anyone give personal experience building the GHQ D8 Bulldozer? I am thinking of it as a flat car load. Curious if it builds into a nicely detailed model: https://www.ebay.com/i/192326959275?chn=ps

Thank you,
Bill Welch



Re: three character shots of a NYC gon

Dave Parker
 

I'm not sure about the Symington-Gould foundry stamp, but it is ASF (American Steel Foundries) that is stamped on the upper left truss-member.  In the center is stamped Vulcan, which was an ASF trade-name.  There is a patent date of 10-6-96 on the left diagonal.  This date routinely appears on ASF Andrews and Vulcan trucks of the teens and twenties, and reflects the original patent awarded to one J S Hardie, the rights to which were later acquired by ASF.   The sideframe in Hardie's patent bore only a passing resemblance to an Andrews or a Vulcan; it was the removable journal box bolted into the pedestal jaw that was patented.

BTW, based on the CBCs, the "Andrews" and "Vulcan" trade names seem to have come into play in about 1909 and 1916 respectively.

Also note that, on this truck, the top chord appears to be a U-channel, while the rest of the truss is T-shaped.  I assume this was a short-lived transition on the way to the full U-channel version.  I don't think this "mixed truss" arrangement was in any way common, but I have seen a couple of other examples.  There is a Gould-manufactured "Vulcan" sideframe advertised in the 1909 CBC that clearly has both U- and L-section elements.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA


Re: D8 Bulldozer as a Flat Car Load

Dennis Storzek
 

On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 05:29 PM, Paul Koehler wrote:
They are installed on my club’s layout; my memory tells me that they were over width for a load.
One thing to keep in mind is during this era, Caterpillar built the tractor, but the various blades were after market parts, likely installed at the distributor that sold the machine. So, if these are supposed to be a shipment of new machines, rather than company MOW equipment, they would be shipped without blades and all that overhead cable rigging.

Dennis Storzek


Re: D8 Bulldozer as a Flat Car Load

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

One model that has not been mentioned  is a very good Carerpillar RD-8 from a company called Evergreen Hill Designs.  This is a white metal kit.  The company is long gone (as are so many) but they come up on E-bay.  Good thing I bought two as the wheel/track casting was defective on one (Sound familiar?).  There is not a blade on this model so it fits great on a flat car

Bill Pardie




Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Bill Welch <fgexbill@...>
Date: 9/13/18 4:15 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] D8 Bulldozer as a Flat Car Load

Thank you everyone for your responses. I have to admit with so many things to build the fact that the Artitech D7 is ready to put on a flat car deck is very appealing.

Bill Welch


Re: D8 Bulldozer as a Flat Car Load

Bill Welch
 

Thank you everyone for your responses. I have to admit with so many things to build the fact that the Artitech D7 is ready to put on a flat car deck is very appealing.

Bill Welch


Re: three character shots of a NYC gon

Tim O'Connor
 


Vulcan design sideframes cast by Symington-Gould (foundry stamp) made for ACF (?) whose
initials appear to be cast into the sideframe, for a NYC Lines order (name cast into the
trucks as well). They appear to be either L-section or T-section sideframes - both types
were outlawed (strictly restricted interchange) in 1957.

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-09-12-18/X5128.jpg

The hopper bottom gondola is pretty cool too! :-)



Great shot of a spring-planked Vulcan truck with ribbed-backed wheels.
 
Andy
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [ mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Schuyler Larrabee
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 11:04 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] three character shots of a NYC gon
 
http://lists.railfan.net/listthumb.cgi?erielack-09-12-18
 
Schuyler

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Actual Burlington SM-18 cars

Benjamin Hom
 

Jack Mullen wrote:
"The SM-16s were covered in [Mainline Modeler] many years ago, with drawings and TWO construction articles iirc."

I wrote:
"Four parts: October 1991, November 1991, January 1992, May 1992."

Plus drawings in June 1991 and September 1991.


Ben Hom


Re: Actual Burlington SM-18 cars

Benjamin Hom
 

J. Stephen Sandifer posted:
http://sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun54a.pdf  
 
Unfortunately, no photo of the completed CB&Q model in the flyer.
 

Jack Mullen wrote:
"The SM-16s were covered in MM many years ago, with drawings and TWO construction articles iirc."

Four parts: October 1991, November 1991, January 1992, May 1992.


Ben Hom


Re: Actual Burlington SM-18 cars

James SANDIFER
 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jack Mullen
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2018 7:50 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Actual Burlington SM-18 cars

 

Ron,
No, not Mathers. With the similar SM-16 they were Burlington's standard stock car of the period between the wars. In lieu of proto photos, here's a liink to Rails Unlimited's O scale stock car page (scroll down a bit) with proto info and nice models. 
http://railsunlimited.ribbonrail.com/Models/special.html
  
The SM-16s were covered in MM many years ago, with drawings and TWO construction articles iirc.

Jack Mullen


Re: Actual Burlington SM-18 cars

mopacfirst
 

OK, I think I have enough to go on.  Seems to me I shot a few Q stock cars in KC around 1970, will have to check.  Probably not roster shots, just shots of a line of cars.

Thanks to all who responded.

Ron Merrick


three character shots of a NYC gon

David
 

NYC 339072 was built as CI&S 184072 (assuming the renumbering was done sequentially), Lot 204-G, and has received some work. The Vulcan trucks are replacements for L-section Andrews trucks, the inverse Murphy ends are replacements for plate ends with two vertical posts, the top chord and trapezoidal end sill are not original. The center side post has also been extended down to a crossbearer mounted below the center sill.

David Thompson


Re: Actual Burlington SM-18 cars

Jack Mullen
 

Ron,
No, not Mathers. With the similar SM-16 they were Burlington's standard stock car of the period between the wars. In lieu of proto photos, here's a liink to Rails Unlimited's O scale stock car page (scroll down a bit) with proto info and nice models. 
http://railsunlimited.ribbonrail.com/Models/special.html
  
The SM-16s were covered in MM many years ago, with drawings and TWO construction articles iirc.

Jack Mullen


Re: Actual Burlington SM-18 cars

James SANDIFER
 

The Burlington Bulletin No. 25, was dedicated to Stock Cars and Livestock Traffic of the Burlington. Pages 69-73  contain photos, Folio info and a scale drawing. “The SM-18 and 18A cars were company built copies of the SM-16s. All 500 SM-18s (56950-57449) were constructed in Aurora in 1926 while the 1,000 SM-18As (55950-56949) were turned out at Galesburg in 1926-27 (750 cars) and 1928 (250 cars). “

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of mopacfirst
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2018 7:06 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Actual Burlington SM-18 cars

 

All this conversation about trucks under stock cars, and not a clue what the cars looked like.  All I ask is a number series, in at least the hope that some photos exist.

I pulled out my late friend Mike Spoor's CB&Q color guide, but all that's there are various SM-19 series.

I don't think these were Mather cars, were they?

Ron Merrick