Date   
Re: SE meat reefers

byronrose@...
 

On Tue, 10 Apr 2001 11:50:45 -0500 <ibs4421@...> writes:

The story I was told about Florida cattle during that period
was that the feed used caused the beef fat to be yellow and
therefore not
salable for human consumption. I'm sure it did get used for many
other
things. As far as I know, the Florida cattle industry was
primarily an
adjunct to milk production, at least by the 50s. And furthermore,
I don't recall FEC, SAL or ACL ever using milk cars. Dairy
production was
too close to the consumers to need them.

Byron Rose
________________________________________________________________


Byron,
The yellow fat, IIRC, is common in dairy breeds that
exhibit a large butter fat content in their milk, it is safe fro
human consumption. Many of those in our Mennonite community up here
utilize beef from dairy cattle for their families as a
frugality/cost savings since most are involved in dairy production.
Indeed, McDonalds utilizes this beef as well today, so I've been
told. IMHO, the yellow vs. "white" fat thing was/is something
perpetrated by the beef cattle PR industry people. Bruce, being a
DVM, is probably in a good position to verify or deny this info.

Warren Dickinson

Hi Warren,

Notice I didn't say that the yellow beef was unsafe, just unsalable, and
I'm not even sure I spelled it right. Also note that was 1954 and we
were so much dumber then without the internet and politicians to tell us
what was good or not good for us. Wow, how the heck did I make it this
far? Or did I?

BSR
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Re: Grooves

byronrose@...
 

On Tue, 10 Apr 2001 19:21:19 +0100 "Mike Calvert"
<mike.calvert@...> writes:
Thanks to Byron Rose for his reply on this, but I don't think this
was
purely aesthetic.
I should have added that the grooves are semi-circular in form.

Their size (1" wide, 3/4" deep) and their shape do not resemble a
v-groove.
And I don't believe they were designed to improve the aesthetics of
the
underside of the floor boards and the
inside of the end boards. Or to conceal the nail holes.

Warpage? maybe but how would that work?
Mike Calvert

Mike,

Oh, now I get it, that was a riddle. Okay, I give up. Why did they put
those grooves in the boards?

BSR

P.S. It is common practice, in the building trades at least, to cut
longitudinal grooves in boards where there is a possibility of warpage.
It forces lots of little warps rather than one big warp. Pull out your
older door jambs if you don't believe me. New jambs are usually two
piece "split" types so adding grooves would be redundant.
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Re: SE meat reefers

ibs4421@...
 

Byron reminds his wayward student of freightcarlolgy:


Hi Warren,

Notice I didn't say that the yellow beef was unsafe, just unsalable, and
I'm not even sure I spelled it right.


Byron,
Sometimes I type replies before I have had my daily allotment of caffeine, and sometimes I jus' types.


Also note that was 1954 and we
were so much dumber then without the internet and politicians to tell us
what was good or not good for us.

I don't see how my reply has anything to do woth that.



Wow, how the heck did I make it this
far? Or did I?

BSR
________________________________________________________________

Well, I think the above is probably a Socratic question only you can answer.
Warren

Re: N&W USRA, and other pulpwood loads (was Bob's Photo at Timonium)

Bill Welch <bwelch@...>
 

Yes I would like a scan, But even better if you could tell me how to purchase a prints from Brent Michiels.

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 4/10/01, at 6:29 PM, Earl Tuson wrote:

From: "Bill Welch" <bwelch@...>

N&W 40319 only in-service shot I have seen of their rebuilt USRA 50 toners
with radial roof, triangular gussets on the lower corners of the door
opening, and ladders replacing the grabs
Bill,

In Brent Michiels' collection of Suncook Valley pictures, there is a shot of
N&W 40524, with radial roof and ladders, taken at Allenstown, NH, 9/14/48, by
Howard T. Moulton. With Brent's permission I will send you a scan of it if you
would like. Actually, it is but one of a series of shots, the others showing
the train adding this car to the northbound consist. During this time period,
the only known use of the Allenstown siding I am aware of is pulpwood loading,
with the cars destined to the Brown and Co. paper mill located in Berlin, NH.
For example, during the months of Nov and Dec 1952, the last of operation of
the Sun Val, there were 4 such shipments from Allenstown, in cars: LV 63060, NW
48532, PRR 37152, and SLSF 128715. Brent also has in his collection a summer
of '52 shot of a B&O M-55C and its unusual end corrugations, with the now empty
farmer's truck still backed up to the door.

Earl Tuson

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Re: More on tank cars

Bill Welch <bwelch@...>
 

I could do a clinic on building these kits and Martin's wagontops. I have built two, the Cities Service and Warren. "I went to school" on the CS, which made the Warren easier. The thin resin wrapper is pretty much formed. Tom was right. The challenge is to get the wrapper on straight and tight with only two hands. But it can be done by working slowly and when one is well rested.

To me, the more interesting challenge was how to assemble the tank to the underframe "straight" and then to ensure that the dome was on straight without any sort of locator. Again by working slowly I did get the CS tank on straight and the dome is almost straight. (If you look from the end it is obviously tilted but in train going by it would not be noticed)

Learning from the first one and being a little bit nuts, I decided to build a second. Because the Warren car was painted with three colors, I wanted to build the kit as subassemblies to minimize masking (my absolute least favorite thing about our hobby). I wanted to be able to screw the tank to the underframe with long truck screws. The challenge to me at least was how to draw a straight line along a cylinder. Here is a quiz: "How do you draw a straight line along with a cylinder?" The correct answer gets ...

Once this line was drawn, I used the holes in the underframe to give me my marks for drilling the holes in the PVC pipe. I wanted to treat the dome as a subassembly and also try to get it on absolutely straight this time. Next quiz question: "From a known point, how do you find a point on a cylinder 180 degrees from that first point? (I will answer these if no one comes up with the answer.)

I added details also. There is a flange where the dome joins the tank that is very obvious. I made this from .005 styrene sheet but did not attempt to emboss it with rivets. Before I forget, I did drill a locator hole for the dome in the tank and glued a piece of styrene rod into the dome to ensure square and sturdy attachment. I also added the center attachment point that is omitted from the kit but obvious in photos. I used the InterMountain tank car kit to guide me in this. I did emboss this.

Built up, these are beautiful models. The thickness of the resin captures the obvious wrapped effect made obvious by the inset ends.

The tank is secured to the undeframe by the truck screws, as I left this unglued.

Although we will probably see these cars modeled by InterMountain (but who knows when), building something as challenging as this kit provides learning and skills development that are very valuable.

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 4/10/01, at 3:39 PM, Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. wrote:

Okay,

Back on the subject of tank cars, I noticed that Sunshine has a kit listed
for an ACF 8,000 gallon tank car, insulated in a variety of road names.
Any comments on this kit, before I call them up and order one?

Also, I note that one of the road names is "Cities Service", which I also
noted in a very nice tank car line-up from Altoona PA, circa 1956(?) from a
newly reprinted issue of the PRRT&HS Keystone. What can y'all tell me
about this company and its tank car fleet?

Finally, with respect to the ability to use the left over parts from a
Tichy-Intermountain bash of the USG-A tank cars to make an NATX/Pressed
Steel Car Co. 8K gal. ARA III tank car...it will require some work as the
Intermountain tank has the bands molded on in the wrong locations (so
scrape em off AND add the rivets where they cross the rivet bands) and of
course, as Richard mentioned, the Tichy frame will need to be lengthened.

Happy Rails
Bruce



Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

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P.O. Box 130 Oakton VA 22124 www.uucf.org
Telephone 703 281-4230 Fax 703 281-5399

Re: More on tank cars

Tom Gloger
 

--- Bill Welch <bwelch@...> wrote:
I could do a clinic on building these kits and Martin's wagontops. I
have built two, the Cities Service and Warren.
. . . .
Here is a quiz: "How do you draw a straight line along with
a cylinder?" The correct answer gets ...
You lay it alongside a block approximately half as thick as it is
wide, and scribe along the block.

Speaking of Wagontops, anyone out there built the West Shore Line
B&O Wagontop? I have one lurking on my to-be-built shelf, and I'd
appreciate any tips or advice. This is also my first resin car kit.

=====
- Tom Gloger e-mail: mailto:tomgloger@...
web page: http://pws.prserv.net/usinet.tgloger

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Re: More on tank cars

Dave & Libby Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

Next quiz question: "From a known
point, how do you find a point on a cylinder 180 degrees from
that first point? (I will answer these if no one comes up with
the answer.)
I'm sure there will be a better answer but what I'd do is this: measure the
diameter of the cylinder with a calipers, pull up my Cad software and draw
an identical circle, add 2 lines at right angles on the center point, print
it, and afix it to one end of the cyclinder. I have several metal rules set
at a right angle; using one I'd align on edge on the paper line and mark the
far side cylinder (all 4 points), afix a second printed circle and check
things out as best I could.

Dave Nelson

Re: More on tank cars

Shawn Beckert
 

Bruce F. Smith wrote, in part:

Also, I note that one of the road names is
"Cities Service", which I also noted in a
very nice tank car line-up from Altoona PA
< circa 1956(?) from a newly reprinted issue
of the PRRT&HS Keystone. What can y'all tell
me about this company and it's tank car fleet?
From Wayne Henderson's "Guide to Gasoline Logos":

"Cities Service was founded in 1910 as a public
utility, operating municiple natural gas, lighting,
ice, and other utility type services, hence the
name "Cities Service". Venturing into petroleum
marketing in about 1914, Cities Service was a
scattered collection of refining and marketing
companies operating gas stations throughout the
east and midwest. By the mid-1930s the various
concerns were all marketing under the Cities Service
brandname and black and white colors which gave way
to green and white stations in 1946. In the 1950s
many elaborate service stations were built but Cities
Service continued to have an image problem. In 1965
the time-tested Cities Service brandname was replaced
by Citgo and the entire marketing program was revitalized.
Many new stations were added, only to close in record
numbers during the 1970s gas shortages." <snip>

The book goes on to describe what happened to Citgo in the
1980s and '90s, but I'm guessing you don't need that much
information (me neither). Anyway, my January 1951 ORER lists
Cities Service with 1,697 cars, with maybe half the fleet
being plain vanilla "TM" class cars. The rest are a
combination of TA, TMI, TPI, TLI, and TRI classes.

Life-Like's ACF Type-21 cars were offered in several Cities
Service numbers, though you might have a hard time finding
them at this late date. BTW, what issue of the "Keystone"
did you find that photo in?

Shawn Beckert

Re: Resin B&O Wagontops

ted_culotta@...
 

--- In STMFC@y..., Tom Gloger <tomgloger@y...> wrote:

Speaking of Wagontops, anyone out there built the West Shore Line
B&O Wagontop? I have one lurking on my to-be-built shelf, and I'd
appreciate any tips or advice. This is also my first resin car kit.
I have assembled (not yet painted) both the WSL and Sunshine
versions. The WSL is certainly easier (the Sunshine one requires
patience- don't try it as a first effort in resin). The WSL
underframe on my kit was too short and too wide, but easy to get
right with a little sanding and strip styrene. My biggest question
with these two is which one is the correct size. The WSL model seems
too small and the Sunshine one seems too large (but closer to scale
if my measurements are correct). Both are good looking
representations of the prototype. As usual, Steve Funaro's (WSL)
decals stink. Luckily, the Sunshine kit includes enough material to
letter two cars if you use two different B&O schemes (easy to do when
you consider how frequently they changed during the 1940's and early
50's)

Ted Culotta

Scale Accumate couplers

Bill Schneider <branch@...>
 

My (personal) scale Accumate's arrived today. I'm impressed at first
glance, but would appreciate any feedback off-list from anybody who's
had a chance to play around with them as regards their mating with #5's
and useability on the average layout.

Thanks,

Bill Schneider

E-Bay Photo Alert

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Dear friends,

I just spotted the following boxcar photo on E-Bay. It looks like the
sort of thing Richard or someone else on this list would love to have.
Now don't fight over it guys.

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1131703718

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Re: E-Bay Photo Alert

byronrose@...
 

Garth,

Nice photo, except for the electronic disenhancements which distort the
lettering. But it appears to be an IC Harriman box car with reverse
Youngstown ends, a car I think Al W did a kit of, .

BSR


On Wed, 11 Apr 2001 16:11:27 -0400 "Garth G. Groff" <ggg9y@...>
writes:
Dear friends,

I just spotted the following boxcar photo on E-Bay. It looks like
the
sort of thing Richard or someone else on this list would love to
have.
Now don't fight over it guys.

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1131703718

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff
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Re: E-Bay Photo Alert

Richard Hendrickson
 

Dear friends,

I just spotted the following boxcar photo on E-Bay. It looks like the
sort of thing Richard or someone else on this list would love to have.
Now don't fight over it guys.

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1131703718

An interesting shot, Garth. The box cars were IC Harriman Standard cars
with early pressed steel underframes, similar to cars built for the UP and
SP at about the same time. I'd like to have a copy of the photo but not at
the price it will probably go for on e-bay.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

Re: More on tank cars

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

How to draw a straight line on a cylinder? How to find a point
180 degrees from another?
Easy, if you have any angle brass that has a smaller cross section
than the cylinder. Just lay it (acute side) against the cylinder so
that both edges are flush at all points. Then any line you draw
along the edge will be parallel to the cylinder's long dimension.
(Of course I assume the cylinder and angle brass are straight!)

Once you have a straight line, it should be easy to draw another
line at a right angle to the first (e.g. with a square cut piece
of paper or thin styrene). Then finding a point 180 degrees from
the first is a simple matter of measurement. (That is, you can use
the orthogonal line to measure the circumference, and then divide
that by two.) You can use a variation on these methods to place
the pipe hangers for the handrails at their proper locations.

I'm sure there are other even more clever ways!

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Marlborough, Massachusetts

Re: E-Bay Photo Alert

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote

An interesting shot, Garth. The box cars were IC Harriman Standard cars
with early pressed steel underframes, similar to cars built for the UP and
SP at about the same time. I'd like to have a copy of the photo but not at
the price it will probably go for on e-bay.
Just FYI, I often "troll" the Ebay site for railroad JPEG files. Some of the
sellers generously provide excellent scans that are perfectly good for use
with a computer. (You wouldn't want to print them.) I have found quite a few
really nice shots of steam, freight cars, and cabooses on Ebay -- and all
it costs me is a few minutes of browsing. ;o)

(My computer's "wallpaper" is a beautiful shot of a doubleheaded SP freight
in steam days on the Coast Line, that I got for free from Ebay.)

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Marlborough, Massachusetts

Re: E-Bay Photo Alert

westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

We make a model of this car. See kit 1753 on our web page.
- Al Westerfield

Re: More on tank cars

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. <smithbf@...>
 

Shawn wrote:
"Cities Service was founded in 1910 as a public
<SNIP>

Thanks Shawn!

Life-Like's ACF Type-21 cars were offered in several Cities
Service numbers, though you might have a hard time finding
them at this late date. BTW, what issue of the "Keystone"
did you find that photo in?
Volume 7, number 2 of the Keystone has a back cover shot of 2 PRR APS24ms
(alco RSD-7) in East Altoona, 1957, photo credit Douglas C. Jones. Behind
the Alcos is an M1, and behind them a line of 6 tank cars, with the first
car completely obscured by the M1's tender. The second car and fifth car
appear the most "massive" (10K gallon?), the third slightly smaller (10K
different style?) and the third and six are smaller with narrower domes (8K
gallon?). The second and sixth appear to have "CITIES SERVICE" written out
in large letters while the third car has "CSOX 5..." visible on the end of
the tank (only the first digit is visible). I guess I couold scan the
image, but it is a photocopy of a photocopy already!

Interestingly, there is a great set of photos of WWII era tank cars in Don
Ball's book "Portrait of the Rails", on pages 130-131...Two B&O trains
headed uphill in 1944 - shots of the last few tank cars in a solid train,
with cabooses and helpers. Richard, I may not need those decals...I can't
make out a single reporting mark!! I think if I just sprayed them all
grime it would be pretty prototypical!

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

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Re: Cities Service

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Cities Service had a huge refinery in Lake Charles, Louisiana
served by the SP. There is a fine 1950 aerial shot of it in the
"SP Review 1978-1979" showing many tank cars in Cities Service
schemes, including LPG cars.

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Marlborough, Massachusetts

Re: More on tank cars

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Bruce Smith writes about the uniform weathering appearance of some tank cars
during WW2:

Richard, I may not need those decals...I can't
make out a single reporting mark!! I think if I just sprayed them all
grime it would be pretty prototypical!
Yes, I've pointed out that photo to Richard myself. I'm a bit curious about
the cause of the look. These cars appear to be part of tank car trains that
were involved in avoiding German U boats...if I have my photo correct. If
that's the case, they may have been seeing more service than normal. The
point is, do you think the grime is from coal dust and cinders from steam
engines as opposed to it being the result of the process of
loading/unloading the contents? It does seem to be rather evenly put
down...it's difficult to see much in the way of liquids going down the
sides. One thing's for sure, those B&O engines are putting out a pretty
impressive smoke screen in their own right.

Mike

Re: Cities Service

tgmadden <tgmadden@...>
 

This is mostly a teaser, I'm afraid. Chuck Yungkurth stopped by this
afternoon and loaned me about 150 Pullman slides taken by Gerritt Bruins in
the '60s. One of them shows a string of tank cars, the second of which is a
Cities Service car. I promise to get a good slide scanner as soon as our
daughter comes through and presents us with another grandson (our second,
her first) and we return from Texas following the event. (Should take place
within the next two weeks, and we'll probably stay in Texas for 2 weeks
afterwards.)

In the meantime, I took a shot of the slide on a light table, using my
digital camera. I touched up the contrast and brightness a bit and posted it
at http://home.att.net/~tgmadden/Albany.jpg Not the best resolution in the
world, but look at the size of the dome on the third tank car. The car in
front of the tanks looks to be a converted troop sleeper.

Tom M.