Date   
Wrecked car with interior details from 1948

Brian Rochon
 

From the Steamtown- Erie-Lackawanna site today.  Car is described as a tank car, but exterior looks like a reefer.  A milk reefer perhaps?

 

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-01-24-20/16619.jpg

 

Brian Rochon

Re: Car End Data

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Friends,

The late Richard Hendrickson penned a three part article on boxcar markings in RPC volumes 3-5, which explains much of this lettering. On page 11, V.4, he includes an AAR diagram dated 1940, which shows the ends to be clean except for the car reporting marks.

That said, the practice of adding optional special equipment data by some railroads continued through the end of our period. One of the most common was for wheel descriptions: "WRT STL WHLS" or "1-W STL WHLS" (or variants), probably in case of repairs made off-line. Also common was spring travel as in "Spring 2 1/4 in Travel". I also note "Swivel Coupler" on some cars. These examples are shown in various builders' photos. Some of the lettering was probably not renewed upon repainting by certain roads, but might have been continued by others. Check your photos.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆


On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 1:34 AM Dave Parker via Groups.Io <spottab=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
The short (I hope) answer is that these "equipment lists" were first adopted by the MCB in 1896 as a Recommended Practice, and advanced to Standard 5 years later.  Exactly what needed to be in the list evolved over time.  By the late teens (at least), the list could be stenciled on either the sides or the ends of the cars.  When the new ARA lettering standards were adopted on 1 March, 1927, the equipment list became optional, but it was recommended that these stencils be confined to the car ends.  Presumably this was to eliminate clutter on the car sides in the face of the new requirement for dimensional data to the right of the door of house cars.

Some owners continued to stencil these lists on the car-ends into the 1930s, but many did not.  It can often be hard to tell in photos of well-weathered cars with dirty ends.

Hope this helps.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA

Re: Car End Data

Dave Parker
 

The short (I hope) answer is that these "equipment lists" were first adopted by the MCB in 1896 as a Recommended Practice, and advanced to Standard 5 years later.  Exactly what needed to be in the list evolved over time.  By the late teens (at least), the list could be stenciled on either the sides or the ends of the cars.  When the new ARA lettering standards were adopted on 1 March, 1927, the equipment list became optional, but it was recommended that these stencils be confined to the car ends.  Presumably this was to eliminate clutter on the car sides in the face of the new requirement for dimensional data to the right of the door of house cars.

Some owners continued to stencil these lists on the car-ends into the 1930s, but many did not.  It can often be hard to tell in photos of well-weathered cars with dirty ends.

Hope this helps.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA

Car End Data

radiodial868
 

Many of the decal sets for resin car kits include "Car End Data", stuff like 'Coupler End Shank 6x8', 'K-2 Triple Valve', 'Friction Draft Gear', 'Cast Steel Yoke', etc..
I see many proto pictures with no car end data, some with it (but unsure of the photo date).  Let's face it, old pictures of car ends are less frequent than side views.
What era were these used? 
RJ Dial
Burlingame. CA

Re: Standard Steel Drawing List

mark_landgraf
 

Bob,

Congrats on getting this far with the SSC drawings.  I can sympathize with the effort involved.  I'm currently scanning 30,000 8x10 builders photos negatives.  It takes time.

Based on the dozen SSC drawings in my collection, they do contain a bunch more data then you are showing.  The upper right corner typically identifies the quantity of cars ordered and by what RR, and sometimes the road numbers.

The title block has a date, please enter at least the year in one column and the whole date in another. This allows for a date range search, where as the whole dates search is very problematic. However the whole date is often helpful in gathering up the drawings for a specific car, since often all the drawings have the same date.

I understand that the naming convention is not always equal, but in order to help finding things, there needs to be some standardization.

In the spreadsheet I saw a lot of General Drawing.  The generic car construction term is General Arrangement drawing, often abbreviated as GA.
Underframe Arrangement is UF
Brake Arrangement is BA
The others, like End Arrangement, Side Arrangement, Top Arrangement, etc, are usually spelled out.

If you know the weight or gallons capacity, please place that in another column
If you know the road numbers please include them in another column

From my limited knowledge of SSC drawings, the required drawings are usually clustered together, rather than in families, like PS, BLW, Alco.
If there is a prior drawing that is referred to, please include that number in it's own column.
Consider a column for Materials, ie, Wood, Composite or Steel
Inside length would be helpful if known.

When more columns are used, the Data Filter function can be used, and it saves a lot of time. It can also be used to find spelling errors and other irregularities. Like MoPac vs MP.

No, I won't be at the bar CCB. My limo, with the big bag of cash, is stuck in a mid-west snow storm.

Being able to find a 6500 gallon Tank car built between 1917 and 1919 for UTLX is a lot easier with the extra columns.

I had to do this for a 50,000 unit locomotive roster.  Believe me, now when I'm looking for a 0-6-0, meter gage that went to a Cuban sugar plantation in the 1920's, I only get a few hits.

Keep up the good work.

Mark Landgraf


On Thursday, January 23, 2020, 4:20:57 PM EST, Bob Webber <rgz17@...> wrote:


I have an updated Standard Steel drawing list.  This list is both freight (from SS-0 - SS-99999) and Passenger (SS-100000 and above).

It can be found here:
http://www.pullmanlibrary.org/

FAQ:
  • Yes, there are a lot of inconsistencies - so's your old ma..er...Sometimes that's us, sometimes the original.  When this started over 20 years ago, there was no style sheet.  Come to think of it, there is none now.  
  • Yes, there are likely a lot of misspellings, incorrect abbreviations, and uncapitalized names.   Yep.  Yep.  I caught a lot of misspellings, but there are more lurking
  • The Metadata engine has no spell check, no mass replacement, and it can't figure out what the hell a Pries roof is.  Neither can I
  • This is ONLY Standard Steel.  Only 4500 or so drawings that have been scanned.   Yes I plan on doing Pullman Freight & Passenger, Osgood Bradley, Budd, Haskell & Barker and maybe Boeing, Ford and Airbus.  Not today
  • Don't see something that is referenced in a drawing - send me a private message.  Don't see something you want?  Ditto.  Don't see ACF?  Call St. Louis
  • You want full resolution tifs available for downloading free?  Meet me at the bar in the Cocoa Beach Hilton tonight - it may take me a while to get there, but we can talk about it then.
  • You want to order something but don't know how or how much? See http://www.pullmanlibrary.org/orderinfo.htm and https://www.irm.org/pullmanlibrary/price-list/ and http://www.pullmanlibrary.org/Form%20Customer%20Service%202.pdf
  • Want WHAT WHEN?????????   Meet me in the bar at the Cocoa Beach Hilton in 5 minutes...bring lots of unmarked bills...big denomination bills...i.e. CASH....I'll be there ASAP...Mike? When is the RPM next year?

All this is done by volunteers.  Multiple volunteers.  That means their input style is different, as is their spelling, abbreviations, etc.  No kidding tho - the originals are rife with the same thing.  Remember all this is supposed to happen with the work done in 1 6 hour day a week.  

We've added over 1000 Standard Steel drawings in the past 6 months.  We have other work happening all the time, including preparing for the big move.  

And remember, just like that good old cook on the AT&SF - be careful what you criticize, you will be given the job!

Bob Webber

Re: NYC box car with a star on it

Seth Lakin
 

Tim wrote “ Later NYC cars had a yellow circle with a black "A" - is that basically the same thing?”

Yes, a clean loading only car. Not necessarily grain loading only as many 50’ both single and double door boxcars were given the circled A. 

Seth 

Re: Painting color help

Eric Hansmann
 

Fred, I think those B&O gons were black through their service lives, even when they were BR&P cars.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of fred huss via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2020 11:15 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Painting color help

 

I'm working on 2 resin kits and about ready to paint but, not sure what colors to use.
One model  is 53'6" 51101-51600 series Southern Flat,  the other is a B&O(ex BR&P) wood side gon which will be lettered for the B&O. 
I model early 1950s.  Thanks for your consideration. 
Fred Huss

Standard Steel Drawing List

Bob Webber
 

I have an updated Standard Steel drawing list.  This list is both freight (from SS-0 - SS-99999) and Passenger (SS-100000 and above).

It can be found here:
http://www.pullmanlibrary.org/

FAQ:
  • Yes, there are a lot of inconsistencies - so's your old ma..er...Sometimes that's us, sometimes the original.  When this started over 20 years ago, there was no style sheet.  Come to think of it, there is none now.  
  • Yes, there are likely a lot of misspellings, incorrect abbreviations, and uncapitalized names.   Yep.  Yep.  I caught a lot of misspellings, but there are more lurking
  • The Metadata engine has no spell check, no mass replacement, and it can't figure out what the hell a Pries roof is.  Neither can I
  • This is ONLY Standard Steel.  Only 4500 or so drawings that have been scanned.   Yes I plan on doing Pullman Freight & Passenger, Osgood Bradley, Budd, Haskell & Barker and maybe Boeing, Ford and Airbus.  Not today
  • Don't see something that is referenced in a drawing - send me a private message.  Don't see something you want?  Ditto.  Don't see ACF?  Call St. Louis
  • You want full resolution tifs available for downloading free?  Meet me at the bar in the Cocoa Beach Hilton tonight - it may take me a while to get there, but we can talk about it then.
  • You want to order something but don't know how or how much? See http://www.pullmanlibrary.org/orderinfo.htm and https://www.irm.org/pullmanlibrary/price-list/ and http://www.pullmanlibrary.org/Form%20Customer%20Service%202.pdf
  • Want WHAT WHEN?????????   Meet me in the bar at the Cocoa Beach Hilton in 5 minutes...bring lots of unmarked bills...big denomination bills...i.e. CASH....I'll be there ASAP...Mike? When is the RPM next year?

All this is done by volunteers.  Multiple volunteers.  That means their input style is different, as is their spelling, abbreviations, etc.  No kidding tho - the originals are rife with the same thing.  Remember all this is supposed to happen with the work done in 1 6 hour day a week.  

We've added over 1000 Standard Steel drawings in the past 6 months.  We have other work happening all the time, including preparing for the big move.  

And remember, just like that good old cook on the AT&SF - be careful what you criticize, you will be given the job!

Bob Webber

Re: Photo: UP/OSL Boxcar 18761

Dennis Storzek
 

On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 10:25 AM, Jeff wrote:
The description says the sign is "painted on" -
Well, it is "painted on"... on the negative, that is.

Dennis Storzek

A Day at the Car Shops

Martin Skrzetuszewski
 

Hi All,
Just found this 53 minute plus, B&W film shot in 1951 in the NYC Despatch Car Shops showing boxcar construction. I have only watched 29 minutes so far but it looks good:
https://videoplayer.telvue.com/player/FcqTL0OYMCGU6WlccUApyUL3twz4dm9V/media/456833

Enjoy!
Best regards,
Martin Skrzetuszewski
London (England)

Re: Photo: UP/OSL Boxcar 18761

Jeff
 

The description says the sign is "painted on" - but it looks like a nailed on banner, until you look at the nailheads and realize they are just black blobs in the same color as the sign wording. 


On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 10:07 AM Richard Townsend via Groups.Io <richtownsend=netscape.net@groups.io> wrote:
I think the banner was a fake, added by an artist to the photo or negative, not really on the car.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Jan 23, 2020 9:30 am
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: UP/OSL Boxcar 18761

Same car before the banner was attached.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA



--
Jeff Shultz
http://www.shultzinfosystems.com
A railfan approaches a grade crossing hoping that there will be a train.

Re: Photo: UP/OSL Boxcar 18761

Richard Townsend
 

I think the banner was a fake, added by an artist to the photo or negative, not really on the car.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Jan 23, 2020 9:30 am
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: UP/OSL Boxcar 18761

Same car before the banner was attached.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA

Re: Photo: UP/OSL Boxcar 18761

Bob Chaparro
 

Same car before the banner was attached.

http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/p15799coll170/id/35089/rec/2

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Painting color help

fred huss
 

I'm working on 2 resin kits and about ready to paint but, not sure what colors to use.
One model  is 53'6" 51101-51600 series Southern Flat,  the other is a B&O(ex BR&P) wood side gon which will be lettered for the B&O. 
I model early 1950s.  Thanks for your consideration. 
Fred Huss

Photo: UP/OSL Boxcar 18761

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: UP/OSL Boxcar 18761

Taken in 1931 at Los Angeles.

http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/p15799coll170/id/35517/rec/381

Use slider to enlarge photo.

Promotional photo for Maxwell House Coffee.

Banner reads "Straight Car". Anyone familiar with the term?

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: ATSF BX-11,12, and13 rebuild question

Randy Hammill
 

Hi, James -

Somehow I missed this message earlier. To clarify:

For the ATSF cars in this project we are doing:
  • Bx-11, -12, and -13 in their original configuration
  • Bx-11 and -12 rebuilt (or modified might be a better term) 1941-2 with 8" roof extension
  • Bx-11 and -12 modified in 1942-3 with 12" roof extension
  • Bx-11 and -13 classes rebuilt with steel sides, the Bx-13s started in 1950, the Bx-11s in 1956.

Available with era specific details and painting and lettering for the life of the cars. 

In a future era, the Bx-12 classes rebuilt with steel sides '63-'64 appear to all have been two variations, one with a "plug" door as Bx-85 cars, and others with Transco siding, in class Bx-86. These cars are not included in this project...yet. We have to raise our initial funding before we consider adding anything else to the project. But these cars, along with some other variations of the PM/C&O cars are under consideration should we raise enough to cover the additional tooling.

The rest of the cars currently in scope for this project:
Box Cars
  • RI 141000-142999 series Pratt truss single sheathed box cars
  • PM 89350-90349 series Pratt truss box cars (converted from auto cars)
  • C&O 289350-290349 series Pratt truss box cars (converted from auto cars)

Auto Cars
  • CGW 80000-80978 series Pratt truss auto cars
  • L&N 46000-46399 series Pratt truss auto cars
  • PM 89350-90349 series tall Pratt truss auto cars
  • C&O 289450-290349 series tall Pratt truss auto cars

Remember that we have a special 20% off deal for members of this list available here: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/2565226/x/22782899?secret_perk_token=00cefdf9

Join our community of Backers and let's make some models!

Randy

Randy Hammill
Prototype Junction
http://prototypejunction.com

Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954
http://newbritainstation.com

Re: NYC box car with a star on it

Tim O'Connor
 


While that is true, I wonder if it simply implies a car with tight floors and walls
appropriate for clean lading that doesn't require a lot of dunnage (that could harm
the walls and floors).

Later NYC cars had a yellow circle with a black "A" - is that basically the same thing?

Tim O'Connor


On 1/22/2020 6:48 PM, Seth Lakin via Groups.Io wrote:

Doug, from CanadaSouthern.com notes on NYC painting and lettering notes “A STAR under the oval herald indicates car used in grain service as per note #2 in drawing book J-56487” 
I have a copy of the drawing book on my other computer. I would have to look up more details if needed. 

Seth Lakin
Michigan City IN


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: NYC box car with a star on it

Doug Paasch
 

Thank you Seth.  This info is sufficient for my purposes.

 

  Doug Paasch

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Seth Lakin via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2020 4:48 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] NYC box car with a star on it

 

Doug, from CanadaSouthern.com notes on NYC painting and lettering notes “A STAR under the oval herald indicates car used in grain service as per note #2 in drawing book J-56487” 
I have a copy of the drawing book on my other computer. I would have to look up more details if needed. 

Seth Lakin
Michigan City IN

 

Re: NYC box car with a star on it

Seth Lakin
 

Doug, from CanadaSouthern.com notes on NYC painting and lettering notes “A STAR under the oval herald indicates car used in grain service as per note #2 in drawing book J-56487” 
I have a copy of the drawing book on my other computer. I would have to look up more details if needed. 

Seth Lakin
Michigan City IN

 

NYC box car with a star on it

Doug Paasch
 

I just bought a Bachmann Silver Series (15009) box car, NYC 164613, stamped BLT 10-47.  Under the oval “NEW YORK CENTRAL SYSTEM” logo is a 5-pointed star about 10 scale inches wide.  Does anyone know what the star means?  This is not an REA car with an attendant or anything.  Just a regular 40’ box car.

 

Thanks,

   Doug Paasch