Date   
Re: American Unlimited 16,000 Tank Car

James SANDIFER
 

https://midwestmodelrr.com/brand/american-limited-models/

 

ATSF, used in company service.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of WILLIAM PARDIE
Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2020 4:56 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] American Unlimited 16,000 Tank Car

 

Morning Lester:

 

 

What railroad was this tank car done for?

 

Bill

 

 

 

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Lester Breuer <rforailroad@...>

Date: 1/25/20 12:19 PM (GMT-10:00)

Subject: [RealSTMFC] American Unlimited 16,000 Tank Car

 

I would like to get the demsions of the new American Limited  16,000 tank model that came out I believe last year.   I would appreciate getting the tank length and diameter in HO Scale.
Thank You in advance for your time and effort to respond.
Lester Breuer

Re: American Unlimited 16,000 Tank Car

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Morning Lester:


What railroad was this tank car done for?

Bill



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Lester Breuer <rforailroad@...>
Date: 1/25/20 12:19 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] American Unlimited 16,000 Tank Car

I would like to get the demsions of the new American Limited  16,000 tank model that came out I believe last year.   I would appreciate getting the tank length and diameter in HO Scale.
Thank You in advance for your time and effort to respond.
Lester Breuer

Re: PRR X28A

anthony wagner
 

Ron, I'm guessing but I think advanced age and inadequate cubic and weight capacity doomed these cars. By the late 50s 50 foot box cars were becoming the norm, often with 70 ton capacity, so older cars were disposed of as soon as they could be economically replaced. Also, though I'm not sure when, the AAR changed the longevity rule from 50 to 40 years but that also must have had an impact.Tony

On Saturday, January 25, 2020, 3:08:21 PM CST, mopacfirst <ron.merrick@...> wrote:


Thanks for all the really specific replies.  I'm comfortable with doing the X28A in SK, probably well-weathered, if I decide to do it at all.  I'm also working on an X26C, an X29B and an X29D, all F&C.  (I like to do some similar cars at once, which is a small labor-saving advantage at least with regard to research and assembly technique.)  And I have enough decals I should be able to make some good choices when I'm at the lettering stage.

My Westerfield 1/59 ORER shows 2913 X28A.  I have a hard copy ORER from 1961 but it's at my other house so I can't check it.  I'm really interested in the precipitous decline in the numbers of X28A after 1958 as shown in the prr.railfan.net page, so I was wondering if large numbers of these cars were being condemned or at least being gathered for scrapping rather than being in free interchange during this time.

Ron Merrick

FS: Book-Pacific Fruit Express

Scott H. Haycock
 

I have a copy of the book Pacific Fruit Express, 2nd Edition by Thompson, Church, and Jones to sell. This book is in excellent condition.

The publisher (Signature Press) is asking $75.00. I'm asking $62.00 including boxed shipping within the US.

Paypal F&F please. 

Contact me off list at shhaycockATcomcastDotnet

Scott Haycock

American Unlimited 16,000 Tank Car

Lester Breuer
 

I would like to get the demsions of the new American Limited  16,000 tank model that came out I believe last year.   I would appreciate getting the tank length and diameter in HO Scale.
Thank You in advance for your time and effort to respond.
Lester Breuer

Re: PRR X28A

mopacfirst
 

Thanks for all the really specific replies.  I'm comfortable with doing the X28A in SK, probably well-weathered, if I decide to do it at all.  I'm also working on an X26C, an X29B and an X29D, all F&C.  (I like to do some similar cars at once, which is a small labor-saving advantage at least with regard to research and assembly technique.)  And I have enough decals I should be able to make some good choices when I'm at the lettering stage.

My Westerfield 1/59 ORER shows 2913 X28A.  I have a hard copy ORER from 1961 but it's at my other house so I can't check it.  I'm really interested in the precipitous decline in the numbers of X28A after 1958 as shown in the prr.railfan.net page, so I was wondering if large numbers of these cars were being condemned or at least being gathered for scrapping rather than being in free interchange during this time.

Ron Merrick

Re: PRR X28A

Bruce Smith
 

Ron,

It helps to provide a link to the photo 😉 Luckily, in this case PRR 121861 was pretty easy to find:

There is no question that 121861 is in the Shadow Keystone scheme. The photo is from the back cover of the PRR's annual report from 12/1960. I suppose you could worry it is plain keystone, but not really since that scheme came about in 1961.

Some additional good news...

The P&L diagram for SK, issued 4/14/1954 is labeled "X26A, X28A, X29, X29A, X31A (Single Door)". That can be found on page 53 of RP Cyc 24. So it is clear that the X28A was meant to be included. In addition, there are tons of photos of X29s, the X28A's kissing cousin and contemporary in SK. 

Now for the bad news. I cannot find any other photos of X28A in SK. Is 121861 unique? Almost certainly not. Is it an oddball? Potentially. 

There are lots of photos of other cars in CK well past the 1954 date of SK. Which would be better for Kansas? I would think that the later you consider your date in the "late 1950s" the more likely that you would see a fresh SK X28A instead of a weathered CK X28A, but I still think that, barring photographic evidence, CK is probably more likely than SK. 

Now, I do have to say that an X29 would FAR more likely than an X28A. So no matter what you P&L this car, it is still an "odd ball". 

And then there is the problem that the F&C X28A isn't really correct. The side panels show exactly the same mistake in panel size/location as a certain brass car. AFAIK, the only accurate X28A, at least with respect to the side panels, is the Sunshine kit. Of course, that kit has its own issues, like a roof that curves laterally.

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of mopacfirst <ron.merrick@...>
Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2020 12:39 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] PRR X28A
 
I started on an F&C kit for a PRR X28A, with AB brake and Youngstown doors.  There's actually one photo on rr-picturearchives, showing PRR 121861 in what might be the SK scheme, can't see the side clearly enough to tell but at all events this is a paint scheme from the 50s after the end of the CK scheme.

But looking at the X28 page at prr.railfan.net, which I use frequently, it appears that the quantity of X28A was diminishing rapidly in the late 50s.  So first, I'm wondering if the photo of 121861 might be just a publicity photo and very few of these cars were ever painted in this scheme.  Second, if I paint this model in CK, how likely were these cars to be found in interchange service by the late 50s?  I model a Kansas secondary main line that got some East Coast manufactured goods traffic but also had a lot of 40' cars sitting around waiting for grain shipments during certain seasons of the year.  It was not a bridge route.

Basically, I'm trying to decide exactly how likely it would be to see one of these cars in Kansas during this period.  I could just as easily pass this model on to someone who would be more at home with it.  I've got several other PRR rebuild boxcars in the works now that are probably more appropriate.

Ron Merrick

Re: PRR X28A

anthony wagner
 

The attached is a nice table of the X-28s. As you can see there were still almost 3000 still in service in 1958. I worked for the C&nw in the 1970s and saw plenty of PRR cars still in the CK paint scheme so the chance of seeing a Pennsy car in  that scheme would be quite high in Kansas or anywhere else for that matter. Even at that late date, after the PC merger, Pennsy cars were still so numerous they were everywhere. Tony Wagner

On Saturday, January 25, 2020, 12:39:40 PM CST, mopacfirst <ron.merrick@...> wrote:


I started on an F&C kit for a PRR X28A, with AB brake and Youngstown doors.  There's actually one photo on rr-picturearchives, showing PRR 121861 in what might be the SK scheme, can't see the side clearly enough to tell but at all events this is a paint scheme from the 50s after the end of the CK scheme.

But looking at the X28 page at prr.railfan.net, which I use frequently, it appears that the quantity of X28A was diminishing rapidly in the late 50s.  So first, I'm wondering if the photo of 121861 might be just a publicity photo and very few of these cars were ever painted in this scheme.  Second, if I paint this model in CK, how likely were these cars to be found in interchange service by the late 50s?  I model a Kansas secondary main line that got some East Coast manufactured goods traffic but also had a lot of 40' cars sitting around waiting for grain shipments during certain seasons of the year.  It was not a bridge route.

Basically, I'm trying to decide exactly how likely it would be to see one of these cars in Kansas during this period.  I could just as easily pass this model on to someone who would be more at home with it.  I've got several other PRR rebuild boxcars in the works now that are probably more appropriate.

Ron Merrick

Re: PRR X28A

Schleigh Mike
 

Hi Ron & Group!

My October 1958 ORER shows 2921 X28A cars in service in the 120014-125000 block.  Can't say much about the CK but that is certainly a solid number of cars to be around.  There is no 'qualifier' noted for these cars as if they might have been limited in their assignments.

Hope this helps.

Regards from western Penna, Grove City, where winter appears to be coming back.

Mike Schleigh

On Saturday, January 25, 2020, 01:39:38 PM EST, mopacfirst <ron.merrick@...> wrote:


I started on an F&C kit for a PRR X28A, with AB brake and Youngstown doors.  There's actually one photo on rr-picturearchives, showing PRR 121861 in what might be the SK scheme, can't see the side clearly enough to tell but at all events this is a paint scheme from the 50s after the end of the CK scheme.

But looking at the X28 page at prr.railfan.net, which I use frequently, it appears that the quantity of X28A was diminishing rapidly in the late 50s.  So first, I'm wondering if the photo of 121861 might be just a publicity photo and very few of these cars were ever painted in this scheme.  Second, if I paint this model in CK, how likely were these cars to be found in interchange service by the late 50s?  I model a Kansas secondary main line that got some East Coast manufactured goods traffic but also had a lot of 40' cars sitting around waiting for grain shipments during certain seasons of the year.  It was not a bridge route.

Basically, I'm trying to decide exactly how likely it would be to see one of these cars in Kansas during this period.  I could just as easily pass this model on to someone who would be more at home with it.  I've got several other PRR rebuild boxcars in the works now that are probably more appropriate.

Ron Merrick

PRR X28A

mopacfirst
 

I started on an F&C kit for a PRR X28A, with AB brake and Youngstown doors.  There's actually one photo on rr-picturearchives, showing PRR 121861 in what might be the SK scheme, can't see the side clearly enough to tell but at all events this is a paint scheme from the 50s after the end of the CK scheme.

But looking at the X28 page at prr.railfan.net, which I use frequently, it appears that the quantity of X28A was diminishing rapidly in the late 50s.  So first, I'm wondering if the photo of 121861 might be just a publicity photo and very few of these cars were ever painted in this scheme.  Second, if I paint this model in CK, how likely were these cars to be found in interchange service by the late 50s?  I model a Kansas secondary main line that got some East Coast manufactured goods traffic but also had a lot of 40' cars sitting around waiting for grain shipments during certain seasons of the year.  It was not a bridge route.

Basically, I'm trying to decide exactly how likely it would be to see one of these cars in Kansas during this period.  I could just as easily pass this model on to someone who would be more at home with it.  I've got several other PRR rebuild boxcars in the works now that are probably more appropriate.

Ron Merrick

Photo: NYC&HR Boxcar 91144

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: NYC&HR Boxcar 91144

A circa 1908 photo: of

https://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/2016813936/

Click on "View Larger" to see more details.

Boxcar has truss rods, Fox trucks and a "reverse opening" door.

Notice the vertical grab iron and lack of a sill step on the near corner of this car. All three boxcars have only one sill step. I speculate the single sill step was a common arrangement during that era, before the Safety Appliance Act was amended in 1911.

The second boxcar is Lackawanna 27189.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: Branchline Blueprint 50-foot variations

rdgbuff56
 

I have added the Branchline Freight Car and Passenger Car info to STMFC@groups.io

I can not find a place to download items on RealSTMFC

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.

On Wednesday, January 22, 2020, 5:22:45 AM EST, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:


Francis,

Since many of their cars also fit our period of interest, might we also have a download on our site?

Yours Aye,

Mungo Napier, Laird of Mallard Lodge  🦆


On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 6:28 PM rdgbuff56 via Groups.Io <rdgbuff56=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I downloaded their whole freight car catalog at MFCL group.

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.

On Tuesday, January 21, 2020, 7:40:59 PM UTC, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Branchline -

 8 foot and 9 foot riveted single door 50 foot box cars.

 welded 50 foot single door car with 9 foot doors.

 double door 50 foot box car.

 TWO different insulated box cars with 8 foot doors.

All have separate roofs and ends.



On 1/20/2020 8:12 AM, Bill Welch wrote:
> I need a reminder regarding the Branchline Blueprint 50-foot boxcars
> in terms of the variations. I know they produced an 8-foot door car
> and an insulated car w/a sliding flush door. Note, I am not interested
> in the more modern cars they did, only the ones that would have the
> Improved Dreadnaught end variations.
>
> Did they do a 9-foot door or any double door examples? Did the do any
> with a lower straight side sill?
>
> Thank you
> Bill Welch


--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*



Re: Atlas ex-Branchline 50-foot boxcar w/8-foot doors and tabbed sills

Bill Welch
 

I typed the kit number into my search engine and it took me to TTH and the kits.

Bill Welch

Re: Atlas ex-Branchline 50-foot boxcar w/8-foot doors and tabbed sills

rdgbuff56
 

Where did you search on their website?

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.

On Saturday, January 25, 2020, 2:18:19 AM UTC, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:


For anyone interested earlier this week I ordered and received four undec. Atlas #20001448 (Branchline #1000C) with four ends and three roofs and various parts molded in grey styrene. These have the tabbed side sill and 8-foot single doors. They came from Toy Train Heaven.

Bill Welch

Atlas ex-Branchline 50-foot boxcar w/8-foot doors and tabbed sills

Bill Welch
 

For anyone interested earlier this week I ordered and received four undec. Atlas #20001448 (Branchline #1000C) with four ends and three roofs and various parts molded in grey styrene. These have the tabbed side sill and 8-foot single doors. They came from Toy Train Heaven.

Bill Welch

Re: Wrecked car with interior details from 1948

Donald B. Valentine
 

  Definitely a milk tank car of the BMT classification and most likely of 6,000 gal. capacity by that year 
with two 3,000 gal. tanks as Dennis describes. If yhou look above the reefer doors you can see the vent
door with its sliding cover that allowed it to be openedso the filler piping could enter the car through it.
Almost looks like and Sealtest car but I need to check my material to be sure.

Cordially, Don Valentine

Re: Car End Data

Donald B. Valentine
 

Dave Parker wrote:

Some owners continued to stencil these lists on the car-ends into the 1930s, but many did not.  It can often
be hard to tell in photos of well-weathered cars with dirty ends.

    Actually in the case of one type of carit went later than that. The last of the General American built milk 
tank cars for the General American - Pfaudler Corp. were built in 1947 in both 6,000 and 8.000 gal.capacity
all of which had such end lettering even at that date.

Cordialy, Don Valentine

Re: Standard Steel Drawing List

Steve and Barb Hile
 

Oops.  Now I know!!

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Webber
Sent: Jan 24, 2020 6:00 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Standard Steel Drawing List

Or better, not!  Steve I forgot to tell you. Bob left them at the hotel, they are now safely back in union.  They'll be added to and displayed at various meets, including cocoa Beach, Collinsville and perhaps others as well.....

Sent from BlueMail
On Jan 24, 2020, at 4:55 PM, Steve and Barb Hile <shile@...> wrote:
One small addendum:  For those attending the Springfield meet this weekend and visiting Bob's Photos room, he may well have available our Pullman Library example drawings books to view.  There are a number of drawings from both Pullman and Standard Steel Car that provide, in a reduced size, examples of what we have to work with at IRM.  Ask Bob to see them, if he has them with him.  We believe that they left CCB with him a couple of weeks ago.

Steve Hile

Re: Standard Steel Drawing List

Bob Webber
 

Or better, not!  Steve I forgot to tell you. Bob left them at the hotel, they are now safely back in union.  They'll be added to and displayed at various meets, including cocoa Beach, Collinsville and perhaps others as well.....

Sent from BlueMail

On Jan 24, 2020, at 4:55 PM, Steve and Barb Hile <shile@...> wrote:
One small addendum:  For those attending the Springfield meet this weekend and visiting Bob's Photos room, he may well have available our Pullman Library example drawings books to view.  There are a number of drawings from both Pullman and Standard Steel Car that provide, in a reduced size, examples of what we have to work with at IRM.  Ask Bob to see them, if he has them with him.  We believe that they left CCB with him a couple of weeks ago.

Steve Hile

Re: Standard Steel Drawing List

Steve and Barb Hile
 

One small addendum:  For those attending the Springfield meet this weekend and visiting Bob's Photos room, he may well have available our Pullman Library example drawings books to view.  There are a number of drawings from both Pullman and Standard Steel Car that provide, in a reduced size, examples of what we have to work with at IRM.  Ask Bob to see them, if he has them with him.  We believe that they left CCB with him a couple of weeks ago.

Steve Hile

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve and Barb Hile
Sent: Jan 24, 2020 12:36 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Standard Steel Drawing List


Having looked at a lot, but not as many as Bob, of SSC drawings, both for the UTLX book and in my role as a volunteer at IRM, I can tell you that there is nothing on the drawings (for sure the GA drawings) that would link it to anything like a lot number or order number.  Neither have we uncovered anything that looks like a Bill of Material for a SSC lot.  Many GA drawings do refer to the railroad and number series of the cars built in the upper RH corner and will SOMETIMES list subsequent builds to that same drawing.

For sure, SSC recorded order numbers and other purchase data in some form, but we have not found that Rosetta stone, as of yet.

Eric Neubauer's exhaustive research into Pullman, Haskell and Barker, Standard Steel Car and Pullman Standard freight car builds contains a lot of good information that I use, extensively, as a key to knowing the GA, lot number, etc. when one of our customers asks for something based on road name and number series.  In the past year or so, we have been quite successful in finding GA drawings for Resin Car Works, Shake N Take and others.

Keith Retterer's SSC photo catalog also provides some important clues and my current project is to try and develop a searchable file that will combine information from these multiple sources.  When this file is ready, we will share it on the Library's web site, like the scanned drawing file that Bob has already referred to.

Bob, as curator of the Pullman Library, may be the youngest of the regular volunteers there, so his calls for others to help keep the flame alive are very real.

I have been extremely pleased, over the last 10-15 years to discover the various troves of primary source data, such as the Barriger Library and Museum of Transport in St. Louis (ACF) and the Pullman Library (Budd, PS, H&B, SSC, etc.)  One of the missing links would be a comparable source for General American items.

I hope that this is clear and helpful.  Be sure that if you contact us, directly, at the Pullman Library, we will do everything we can to assist you.

Steve Hile
Pullman Library Volunteer since 2015
-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Storzek
Sent: Jan 24, 2020 11:59 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Standard Steel Drawing List

On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 06:31 AM, Bob Webber wrote:
We have a very clear idea how SSC drawings are organized - and it's not as you describe.  They are most certainly arranged in a manner similar to Pullman (dep[ending on exactly WHICH drawing naming convention is in use).  The standard Pullman-Standard variant is Drawer-Size-Sequence.  (e.g. 501-E-21) (later the size indicated by the leading number, with a sequential number).  SSC drawings are organized by drawer (which includes size) and sequence.  Very similar.  IF you have the data on the tubes.  We do not.  They are simply labeled by drawing range, and if we are lucky, year.  NOT by size.  We have been entering drawer, so were that needed, we can locate it.  It is not in the caption information. 
Bob,
Did Standard Steel Car NOT use a system of lot or order numbers? It seems to me this is the one piece of data that will quickly pull all the drawings for a particular car together, irregardless of the drawing numbering system. I suppose it's possible they didn't. Stranger things have happened; I recall one builder (Jackson and Sharp, IIRC) where each individual car had its own order number, similar to locomotive builder's numbers.  Yet, if their drawings still existed, that number should allow reference to all the drawings that pertain to the car.

Dennis Storzek