Date   
Re: MDT orange ?

Tony Thompson
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

IMO the MDT, NP and PFE colors were pretty close, with the MDT and NP colors
just a notch further down on the brightness scale. They fade differently though.
NP colors would bleach to almost yellow. SFRD colors were a deeper (redder) orange
but faded to resemble MEC Harvest Gold.
PFE paint faded to a pretty definite yellow. Tony

Re: Photo: T&NO Flat Car With Converter Load

Tony Thompson
 

Dan Mitchell wrote:

The device shown does not appear to be any part of a Bessemer Converter.

     I agree. It's a copper converter.

Tony Thompson



Re: The more you know...

Douglas Harding
 

Clark I might have those issues. Attached is the only photo I have of a 86000 series boxcar. This comes from the library of congress. https://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/2017762790/

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Clark Propst
Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 10:10 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] The more you know...

 

My friend Bob once said “The more you know, the less you can model” In my case it’s - The more you know, the harder/longer it takes to build a model.

I picked up a Red Caboose CGW X29 style box car at a trainshow late last summer. It was missing the running board, which I was able to replace thanks to Andy Carlson. Besides the running board I replaced the trucks with correct TMW Dalman two level and the couplers with my standard. The model was numbered in the 86000 series. A quick glance at the CGW cars will show all three series’ 85, 86, 87000 are vertically the same. Upon further review they aren’t. Looking at the CGW equipment register and RP Cyc were both enlightening. The RP Cyc not only showed the dimensional differences between the CGW cars and the Pennsy design, but also had a drawing showing side panel rivet patterns. The Red Caboose model does not match the CGW cars rivet pattern. Some would use that as an excuse not to build the kit. Some might scrape off the rivets and replace the rivets with Archer. I chose to ignore this rivet pattern issue. My issue is with the brake equipment on the 86000 series. I was able to locate the underframe components, These cars were built with K bakes and retro fitted with AB. I still have a question about the handbrake. The equipment register says this series had Superior hand brakes. I’ve yet to see a B end photo of a 86000 series! So, I’m stymied on going forward. There were articles on these cars in the CNWHS  magazine, NWL, some years back – Summer 92, Spring 93. If anyone has these magazines I would appreciate knowing what they say, or show anything about the 86000 series handbrakes.

Thanks,

Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa

Re: Made a start

Paul Doggett
 

Richard 

The only photo I have is the one I posted here.

Paul 


On 5 Dec 2019, at 18:06, Richard Townsend via Groups.Io <richtownsend@...> wrote:


Is there a photo showing what such roofs looked like?

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Doggett via Groups.Io <paul.doggett2472@...>
To: main <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Dec 5, 2019 10:01 am
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Made a start

Eric

Apparently the original has a wood and covered with asphalt roofing sheets.

Paul
> On 5 Dec 2019, at 17:55, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:
>
> Paul,
>
> Does the prototype have a flat panel roof? I just picked up a couple Red Caboose X29 roofs from Andy Carlson for a similar Accurail conversion to model an ACL O-16 single-sheathed boxcar. The height will be slightly off but it will have to do for my 1926 focus.
>
> Most of the O-16 class cars were rebuilt with steel sides in the late 1930s.
>
>
> Eric Hansmann
> Murfreesboro, TN
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul Doggett via Groups.Io
> Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 9:33 AM
> To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
> Subject: [RealSTMFC] Made a start
>
> I have made a start on kit bashing an Accurail boxcar into a WP car as per Tony Thompson’s SP blog apparently some of these cars got a metal roof I must say it will not be in the Bill Welch league of kit bashes.
>
>
>
> Paul Doggett.  England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



Re: Made a start

Richard Townsend
 

Is there a photo showing what such roofs looked like?

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Doggett via Groups.Io <paul.doggett2472@...>
To: main <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Dec 5, 2019 10:01 am
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Made a start

Eric

Apparently the original has a wood and covered with asphalt roofing sheets.

Paul
> On 5 Dec 2019, at 17:55, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:
>
> Paul,
>
> Does the prototype have a flat panel roof? I just picked up a couple Red Caboose X29 roofs from Andy Carlson for a similar Accurail conversion to model an ACL O-16 single-sheathed boxcar. The height will be slightly off but it will have to do for my 1926 focus.
>
> Most of the O-16 class cars were rebuilt with steel sides in the late 1930s.
>
>
> Eric Hansmann
> Murfreesboro, TN
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul Doggett via Groups.Io
> Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 9:33 AM
> To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
> Subject: [RealSTMFC] Made a start
>
> I have made a start on kit bashing an Accurail boxcar into a WP car as per Tony Thompson’s SP blog apparently some of these cars got a metal roof I must say it will not be in the Bill Welch league of kit bashes.
>
>
>
> Paul Doggett.  England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



Keeley Hooks One more time

Bill Welch
 

Here is my attempt at the Keeley hooks installed on my Sunshine version of the Illinois Central boxcar. I began by using Chain Nose pliers to form the initial loop with ,010 wire, then tightened this around a #76 drill bit w/0.0195" shank. This results in opening of 0.020" in the hook. Tamiya pliers helped with this. I also made 16 hooks for my F&C IC SS boxcar. I think it took me about 3 hours to make 32 hooks plus some spares. None were exactly the same but I tried to group them into fours that were closest to each other.

Bill Welch

Re: Photo: T&NO Flat Car With Converter Load

Rod Miller
 

On 12/4/19 4:23 PM, Bill Daniels via Groups.Io wrote:
Utah wasn’t the only copper state in the west... Arizona also generated a rather large amount of copper from sulfide deposits. And, like Utah’s smelters, smelters in Arizona also discharged SO2 into the atmosphere... this didn’t happen until relatively recently. In fact I remember the haze in the air over the San Pedro valley from the smelter in San Manuel. When they were reluctantly forced to add scrubbers to the smelter, not only the air was vastly improved, but Magma’s bottom line was as well... Imagine the Government forcing a copper company to make additional money! (I once heard a similar story regarding a certain railroad being forced to convey National Guard troops and their vehicles to a large National Guard training area in Florence, AZ... they made a cool million dollars out of the deal, and they went into it kicking and screaming.)

In addition to their Bingham pit and Magma smelter/refining,
Kennecott Copper also operated pits near Ely, NV and a mill/
smelter at McGill, NV. The ore was moved by KCC owned and
operated trains from the pits to the mill, and the resulting
low grade copper (called Blister) was shipped by train on the
Nevada Northern Railroad to Magma to be refined. The
legacy of all this is the Nevada Northern Railroad Museum.

Montana also had copper mining. Even CA before the Shasta
lake was filled which flooded the copper activity, Kennett
was the location on the SP.

--
Rod Miller
Handcraftsman
===
Custom 2-rail O Scale Models: Drives,
Repairs, Steam Loco Building, More
http://www.rodmiller.com

Re: Made a start

Paul Doggett
 

Eric

Apparently the original has a wood and covered with asphalt roofing sheets.

Paul

On 5 Dec 2019, at 17:55, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

Paul,

Does the prototype have a flat panel roof? I just picked up a couple Red Caboose X29 roofs from Andy Carlson for a similar Accurail conversion to model an ACL O-16 single-sheathed boxcar. The height will be slightly off but it will have to do for my 1926 focus.

Most of the O-16 class cars were rebuilt with steel sides in the late 1930s.


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN




-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul Doggett via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 9:33 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Made a start

I have made a start on kit bashing an Accurail boxcar into a WP car as per Tony Thompson’s SP blog apparently some of these cars got a metal roof I must say it will not be in the Bill Welch league of kit bashes.



Paul Doggett. England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿






Re: Made a start

Eric Hansmann
 

Paul,

Does the prototype have a flat panel roof? I just picked up a couple Red Caboose X29 roofs from Andy Carlson for a similar Accurail conversion to model an ACL O-16 single-sheathed boxcar. The height will be slightly off but it will have to do for my 1926 focus.

Most of the O-16 class cars were rebuilt with steel sides in the late 1930s.


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul Doggett via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 9:33 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Made a start

I have made a start on kit bashing an Accurail boxcar into a WP car as per Tony Thompson’s SP blog apparently some of these cars got a metal roof I must say it will not be in the Bill Welch league of kit bashes.



Paul Doggett. England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

Re: MDT orange ?

Tim O'Connor
 

IMO the MDT, NP and PFE colors were pretty close, with the MDT and NP colors
just a notch further down on the brightness scale. They fade differently though.
NP colors would bleach to almost yellow. SFRD colors were a deeper (redder) orange
but faded to resemble MEC Harvest Gold.

On 12/4/2019 10:18 AM, mopacfirst wrote:
Related to a couple of the previous posts --

From a colorblind guy with particular difficulty with reds, oranges and pinks.  Could I have a suggestion on the MDT orange as used on steel cars in the 50s and later, after the end of the white scheme?  How close is it to PFE orange / Daylight orange?

I once mixed a color with Floquil, but a) I've lost all track of those color mixes, b) Floquil mixes no longer matter anyway.

Ron Merrick
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

Re: The more you know...

Eric Hansmann
 

Clark,

 

IIRC, Red Caboose produced four slightly different car bodies to follow the different prototype side panel rivet patterns, panel overlays, and ends. I believe that info is noted in the RPCyc you are using.

 


Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Clark Propst
Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 10:10 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] The more you know...

 

My friend Bob once said “The more you know, the less you can model” In my case it’s - The more you know, the harder/longer it takes to build a model.

I picked up a Red Caboose CGW X29 style box car at a trainshow late last summer. It was missing the running board, which I was able to replace thanks to Andy Carlson. Besides the running board I replaced the trucks with correct TMW Dalman two level and the couplers with my standard. The model was numbered in the 86000 series. A quick glance at the CGW cars will show all three series’ 85, 86, 87000 are vertically the same. Upon further review they aren’t. Looking at the CGW equipment register and RP Cyc were both enlightening. The RP Cyc not only showed the dimensional differences between the CGW cars and the Pennsy design, but also had a drawing showing side panel rivet patterns. The Red Caboose model does not match the CGW cars rivet pattern. Some would use that as an excuse not to build the kit. Some might scrape off the rivets and replace the rivets with Archer. I chose to ignore this rivet pattern issue. My issue is with the brake equipment on the 86000 series. I was able to locate the underframe components, These cars were built with K bakes and retro fitted with AB. I still have a question about the handbrake. The equipment register says this series had Superior hand brakes. I’ve yet to see a B end photo of a 86000 series! So, I’m stymied on going forward. There were articles on these cars in the CNWHS  magazine, NWL, some years back – Summer 92, Spring 93. If anyone has these magazines I would appreciate knowing what they say, or show anything about the 86000 series handbrakes.

Thanks,

Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa

Re: Missing Photo Collection

Ian Cranstone
 

On Dec 5, 2019, at 10:46 AM, espee4441 <espeesd45t2@...> wrote:

Is the AC 724 the same gon as the P2K model in HO?
I haven’t looked at the photo of the car in question, but I would expect the P2K car to only be a stand-in. These cars were built by National Steel Car in 1958 – I suspect the Rapido car is much closer, and they did offer it in AC lettering.

Ian CranstoneOsgoode, Ontario, Canada
lamontc@...
http://freightcars.nakina.net

The more you know...

Clark Propst
 

My friend Bob once said “The more you know, the less you can model” In my case it’s - The more you know, the harder/longer it takes to build a model.
I picked up a Red Caboose CGW X29 style box car at a trainshow late last summer. It was missing the running board, which I was able to replace thanks to Andy Carlson. Besides the running board I replaced the trucks with correct TMW Dalman two level and the couplers with my standard. The model was numbered in the 86000 series. A quick glance at the CGW cars will show all three series’ 85, 86, 87000 are vertically the same. Upon further review they aren’t. Looking at the CGW equipment register and RP Cyc were both enlightening. The RP Cyc not only showed the dimensional differences between the CGW cars and the Pennsy design, but also had a drawing showing side panel rivet patterns. The Red Caboose model does not match the CGW cars rivet pattern. Some would use that as an excuse not to build the kit. Some might scrape off the rivets and replace the rivets with Archer. I chose to ignore this rivet pattern issue. My issue is with the brake equipment on the 86000 series. I was able to locate the underframe components, These cars were built with K bakes and retro fitted with AB. I still have a question about the handbrake. The equipment register says this series had Superior hand brakes. I’ve yet to see a B end photo of a 86000 series! So, I’m stymied on going forward. There were articles on these cars in the CNWHS  magazine, NWL, some years back – Summer 92, Spring 93. If anyone has these magazines I would appreciate knowing what they say, or show anything about the 86000 series handbrakes.
Thanks,
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa

Re: Missing Photo Collection

Ralph W. Brown
 

Hi Pete,
 
I’ve seen worse, and given the price some photos have sold on eBay, I’d say the price was fair – for the right photo anyway.  I’d very happily pay that for good high res images of long gone buildings and rolling stock I’m trying to model.
 
 
Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
 

From: Pete Steinmetz
Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 10:12 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Missing Photo Collection
 
Interesting collection.  Watermarked because they are trying to sell the photos. $6.00-$10.00 is a little steep but more power to them.  I did get some ideas for modeling a few freight cars.
 
Pete Steinmetz

Re: Missing Photo Collection

espee4441
 

Nice collection indeed. A few questions if you guys don't mind.

Is the AC 724 the same gon as the P2K model in HO? 
The Texas Mexican 955 gon is interesting too, I don't think there is anything close to it in HO, looks to be about maybe a foot or so shorter in height.
The C&IM gons look like a hopper/gon kitbash with box car ends, wild.
Last, NSW 1001, first time I've seen a gon with six axles. What's the story on that beast?

Tony Pawley

Made a start

Paul Doggett
 

I have made a start on kit bashing an Accurail boxcar into a WP car as per Tony Thompson’s SP blog apparently some of these cars got a metal roof I must say it will not be in the Bill Welch league of kit bashes.



Paul Doggett. England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

Re: Missing Photo Collection

Bill Daniels
 

Pete,

The prices are not all that bad... it ain’t like the old days when film and paper were cheap, and darkroom labor was even cheaper... I’m sure they aren’t making a killing at those prices, but just recovering their costs.

Bill Daniels
Santa Rosa, California

On Dec 5, 2019, at 7:13 AM, Pete Steinmetz <peteson30@...> wrote:


Interesting collection.  Watermarked because they are trying to sell the photos. $6.00-$10.00 is a little steep but more power to them.  I did get some ideas for modeling a few freight cars.

Pete Steinmetz

Re: Photo: PFE Reefers

Bill Daniels
 

David,

As has been mentioned here earlier*, orthochromatic (or blue sensitive) rendered yellow as a medium gray. It was used at the time because it was the best that was available at the time. While some photographers at the time did use color filters (Ansel Adams was one) to correct the rendering to a more realistic rendering... most never bothered.

*I just wanted to acknowledge that my statement was not original to me, and not to call you out.

Bill Daniels
Santa Rosa, California (no longer fire land for another year...)

Re: Missing Photo Collection

Pete Steinmetz
 

Interesting collection.  Watermarked because they are trying to sell the photos. $6.00-$10.00 is a little steep but more power to them.  I did get some ideas for modeling a few freight cars.

Pete Steinmetz

Re: Photo: T&NO Flat Car With Converter Load

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

The device shown does not appear to be any part of a Bessemer Converter.

Bessemer Converters “convert" molten iron to molten steel by burning-out excess carbon in the melt. They are large and massive bottle-shaped devices looking like short, fat oversized cannons made of heavy riveted iron. They rest on trunions like a cannon, and can be tipped up and down. They are lined with refractory bricks and clays. Molten iron is poured into the converter through the “muzzle”, then high pressure air is pumped into the bottom of the “bottle” through a series of nozzles to react with the molten iron inside. The result is a violent reaction inside the converter resulting in a jet of combustion gasses shooting from the mouth of the bottle. The appearance is somewhere between that of a jet engine and a volcano.  Once sufficient carbon has been removed from the mix, the bottle is tipped down on its trunions to pour out the molten steel.

Bessemer converters are little, if at all, used today. They have been replaced by Basic Oxygen Process (“BOP”) Furnaces. They work largely the same way, except they are larger and use a blast of oxygen instead of compressed air to burn-out the carbon. The oxygen is applied to the melt through a big water-cooled “lance” that is inserted into the bottle through the open mouth. Again, the result is quite violent. They produce higher-quality steels faster and more predictably.

The device shown on the flatcar looks more like some kind of large plumbing or ductwork. It’s quite impressive, but not really all that heavy considering the flatcar it’s loaded on.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Dec 4, 2019, at 7:20 PM, Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:

Hi Bob and list members,

Bob asked:

"Does anyone know what a "converter" is?
Thanks."

Possibly a Bessemer converter, an apparatus used in an early process to convert molten iron to molten steel

Claus Schlund





On Dec 4, 2019 12:38, "Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io" <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:
Photo: T&NO Flat Car With Converter Load
This is link to a photo from the collection of the University of Utah:
The photo is dated 1917.
Caption: "Image shows a piece of equipment for the American Foundry and Machine Company, loaded on a flatbed railroad car."
Does anyone know what a "converter" is?
Thanks.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA