Date   
Re: Photo: Unloading Fruit From A Livestock Car

Edward
 

The B&O boxcar in the photo showing scrap rubber being loaded is a member of Class M-55a.
Numbers were 465000 - 465899, built by Pullman Standard with Duryea underframes, late 1941 to early 1942.
Ed Bommer

Re: Photo: Unloading Fruit From A Livestock Car

Bruce Smith
 

B&O class M??  # ??5234, Built 12-41, by Pullman (based on the sill tabs). It has a nice slack adjuster and looks to probably have a Duryea under frame.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Jan 27, 2020, at 10:39 AM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:

Placard: Tin Cans

Just to show that tin can loads were called out for special handling:

https://aadl.org/sites/default/files/photos/N082_0371_001.jpg

Description:

"SCRAP RUBBER COLLECTIONS BEGIN TO LEAVE ANN ARBOR: Proof that Ann Arbor and Washtenaw county residents' efforts in the recently-ended scrap rubber collection campaign were not in vain is offered in this picture which shows the first shipment of scrap to leave the city. Cars shown above being loaded from the 50-ton plus pile gathered at the Staebler-Kempf station depot will carry 18 tons of rubber each to the Rubber Reserve Corp. collection depot in Cleveland from whence it will be turned over to varied rubber companies for reclaiming operations.

Published in Issue

Ann Arbor News, July 29, 1942"

Of course, somebody should have removed the placard after the car was unloaded.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photos: 140 Foot Tank On 3 Flatcars

John Barry
 

OOPS I missed those 45' FGs.  They are in the ORER table.

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736


On Monday, January 27, 2020, 01:07:43 PM EST, Bill Kelly <wbkelly@...> wrote:


The end car, riveted with stake pockets, matches up with CMStP&P 67051 and 67053. Between '49 and '52 they were renumbered to 601051 and 60152.
Later,
Bill Kelly
 
 
On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 00:37:36 +0000 (UTC) "John Barry" <northbaylines@...> writes:

There aren’t many possibilities.  We can eliminate the short FM and FG cars, as well as the FD and FW cars.  That leaves the following FM flats from the Oct44 ORER list of Heavy Capacity Flat Cars

C&O 80950-80959             56’9

Erie 7220-7224   50’9

NYC 499000, 499007       40’10

NYC 499015-499019         35’6 (probably not)

NYC 499035-499039         34’8 (probably not)

NYC 499041-499042         47’

NYC&StL 2900-2901         50’9

PRR 470100-470199         50”

PRR 470200-470202         45’

PRR 470206-470235         50’

P&LE 6885-6889                36’7

SP 44091-44094                 45’

And a longer FG

C&NW 48051, 48053       45’

I'm not familiar with all of the HD flats, but this should narrow the search as it's likely that several of the above don't have the double truck bolsters.

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736


On Sunday, January 26, 2020, 06:32:23 PM EST, Jack Mullen <jack.f.mullen@...> wrote:


On Sun, Jan 26, 2020 at 12:09 PM, Tony Thompson wrote:
Can anyone see whose flat cars they are? I can't read any of the cars.
No luck, the scans are rather low-rez and details just disappear into pixel legos as I zoom in.  What may be reporting marks  appear just left of center of the left-hand car in the first photo. That area resolves to what seem to be three characters.
This car, closest to the camera in the two outdoor photos, seems to have a cast steel body, which brings the Commonwealth CNW/PRR/SP 44' 200 ton cars that have been modeled in several scales to mind. However, unless it's an illusion caused by photo lens and angle, the car appears somewhat longer, and the trucks seem to have the proportions of 5'6"+ wb, rather than the 5'0" of at least the PRR and C&NW cars.  The truck sideframes are flat-topped, lacking the characteristic arch of the 5'0" 100 ton trucks.  So maybe a similar cast car, but say 47-50' length?
Who else had similar cars? NYC and D&H come to mind, but I don't have hard data or photos at hand.
The car bearing the other end of the load, closest to the camera, is different - riveted construction, and with stake pockets, which we don't often see on very heavy-duty flats.  The welding flare obscures what I think are the marks and number.
Hope these clues help somebody recognize these...

BTW, it's not " William Boiler & Manufacturing Company", but "William Bros...", and Bros is a name, not the abbreviation for brothers. They also made snowplows, some for railroads.

Jack Mullen
 


Re: Photos: 140 Foot Tank On 3 Flatcars

Bill Kelly
 


The end car, riveted with stake pockets, matches up with CMStP&P 67051 and 67053. Between '49 and '52 they were renumbered to 601051 and 60152.
Later,
Bill Kelly
 
 
On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 00:37:36 +0000 (UTC) "John Barry" <northbaylines@...> writes:

There aren’t many possibilities.  We can eliminate the short FM and FG cars, as well as the FD and FW cars.  That leaves the following FM flats from the Oct44 ORER list of Heavy Capacity Flat Cars

C&O 80950-80959             56’9

Erie 7220-7224   50’9

NYC 499000, 499007       40’10

NYC 499015-499019         35’6 (probably not)

NYC 499035-499039         34’8 (probably not)

NYC 499041-499042         47’

NYC&StL 2900-2901         50’9

PRR 470100-470199         50”

PRR 470200-470202         45’

PRR 470206-470235         50’

P&LE 6885-6889                36’7

SP 44091-44094                 45’

And a longer FG

C&NW 48051, 48053       45’

I'm not familiar with all of the HD flats, but this should narrow the search as it's likely that several of the above don't have the double truck bolsters.

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736


On Sunday, January 26, 2020, 06:32:23 PM EST, Jack Mullen <jack.f.mullen@...> wrote:


On Sun, Jan 26, 2020 at 12:09 PM, Tony Thompson wrote:
Can anyone see whose flat cars they are? I can't read any of the cars.
No luck, the scans are rather low-rez and details just disappear into pixel legos as I zoom in.  What may be reporting marks  appear just left of center of the left-hand car in the first photo. That area resolves to what seem to be three characters.
This car, closest to the camera in the two outdoor photos, seems to have a cast steel body, which brings the Commonwealth CNW/PRR/SP 44' 200 ton cars that have been modeled in several scales to mind. However, unless it's an illusion caused by photo lens and angle, the car appears somewhat longer, and the trucks seem to have the proportions of 5'6"+ wb, rather than the 5'0" of at least the PRR and C&NW cars.  The truck sideframes are flat-topped, lacking the characteristic arch of the 5'0" 100 ton trucks.  So maybe a similar cast car, but say 47-50' length?
Who else had similar cars? NYC and D&H come to mind, but I don't have hard data or photos at hand.
The car bearing the other end of the load, closest to the camera, is different - riveted construction, and with stake pockets, which we don't often see on very heavy-duty flats.  The welding flare obscures what I think are the marks and number.
Hope these clues help somebody recognize these...

BTW, it's not " William Boiler & Manufacturing Company", but "William Bros...", and Bros is a name, not the abbreviation for brothers. They also made snowplows, some for railroads.

Jack Mullen
 


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR X28A

mopacfirst
 

Elden:

That's the summary I was expecting, with regard to where those cars actually were as their reported numbers were declining.

Considering how many resin and plastic cars I'm currently working on, I think I'll set the X28A aside for now.  The X26C is coming along well, with the underframe completed and painted, and some of the detail done on the body.  The other two X29 rebuilds have the underframes partly done.  I like to finish the underframe and add two ounces of weight (half-ounce fishing weights) after I assembly the body sides, roof and ends but before I do much body detailing.

I've taken to substituting more and more plastic parts on resin kits lately, like brake gear and roofwalks, where they're appropriate.  The one-piece F&C cars have meant that I don't need to find plastic roofs or ends, which I've even done on some of the more modern Sunshine prototypes.

Ron Merrick

Re: Photo: Unloading Fruit From A Livestock Car

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Hi Bob and List Members,
 
 
Thanks Bob for the reference to that nice image.
 
Other good images can be found on the site.
 
Some of my favorites are at the links below.
 
Unloading containers of lime from gondola onto a truck...
 
 
 

UTLX tank car, INFLAMMABLE placard...
 
 

Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 11:39 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Unloading Fruit From A Livestock Car

Placard: Tin Cans

Just to show that tin can loads were called out for special handling:

https://aadl.org/sites/default/files/photos/N082_0371_001.jpg

Description:

"SCRAP RUBBER COLLECTIONS BEGIN TO LEAVE ANN ARBOR: Proof that Ann Arbor and Washtenaw county residents' efforts in the recently-ended scrap rubber collection campaign were not in vain is offered in this picture which shows the first shipment of scrap to leave the city. Cars shown above being loaded from the 50-ton plus pile gathered at the Staebler-Kempf station depot will carry 18 tons of rubber each to the Rubber Reserve Corp. collection depot in Cleveland from whence it will be turned over to varied rubber companies for reclaiming operations.

Published in Issue

Ann Arbor News, July 29, 1942"

Of course, somebody should have removed the placard after the car was unloaded.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

New F&C flat car kit (was Photos: 140 Foot Tank On 3 Flatcars)

Tim O'Connor
 


I forgot to mention! Funaro & Camerlengo now have an SP F-200-1 model flat car.
I bought the kit at the Springfield show. It's catalog #8471. (Misprinted labels say
F22-1)

:-)






On 1/26/2020 4:05 PM, Ralph W. Brown wrote:
Hi Tony,
 
I can’t read any of them either, but the lead flat in the first two images looks very much like the 200 ton four-truck SP flat (44083 or 44093 I think) shown at the top of the Mt. Vernon Car Mfg. Co. ad (or perhaps catalog page) posted by Tim O’Connor earlier today.
 
Pax,
 
 
Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
 
From: Tony Thompson
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2020 3:09 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photos: 140 Foot Tank On 3 Flatcars
 
     Can anyone see whose flat cars they are? I can't read any of the cars.
 
Tony Thompson
tony@...
 

 

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Private: Re: [RealSTMFC] Grandt Line - San Juan - American Limited - etc

Tim O'Connor
 

Dan

Well, he did say "brake wheels" to me - but it could have been a slip of
the tongue. MODERN is of course relative - MOST brake wheels from the late
1950's onward were of the so called "modern" variety. :-)

But the set old had several levers, a piston-type slack adjuster, a retainer
valve (I think), in addition to mounting brackets, AB valve, cylinder, reservoir.
I think some of those were also in the delrin sprue. Without those, the set is
really not of much use compared to Tichy or someone else.

Tim O'



On 1/26/2020 1:16 PM, Dan Smith wrote:
Hi Tim,

The Grandt line AB set has NO brake wheels on the triple valve, cylinder, tank sprue, only housings.

Dave had refaced the mating surface to stop flashout but got to the point of altering the parts.
That's when he retired the tool. Has the new owner fixed this. Dave was thinking about a new tool.

The wheels are on the delrin sprue and are all modern.

Dan

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR X28A

Mont Switzer
 

I’m aware that in the 1950’s and 1960’s the Nickel Plate rolled wood boxcars and cabooses off of their trucks and onto their sides where they were burned.  They then salvaged the remaining metal and of course the trucks.  I know they did this in Frankfort and Muncie, IN, but this process could have been used on about any RIP track. 

 

Montford L. Switzer

President

Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.

Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.

mswitzer@...

(765) 836-2914

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 11:53 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR X28A

 

On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 05:57 AM, Mont Switzer wrote:

During the early 1990's I made regular visits to Altoona, PA on business. While there I observed a metal building being built in an industrial area. It was sort of like your typical steel building except the vertical members were old freight car center sills. I was told they were previously under PRR cars, maybe the X28's and X29's of which you speak.

Considering the sills probably came via a scrapper they could have been around for a while. The center sills didn’t look very good in this application, but they were obviously overbuilt for this purpose.

I wonder if the building was a 'boxcar burner'? Back in the late seventies I had some dealings with Purdy Co., a scrap merchant in Hammond, Indiana, located just north of State Line Tower. We were buying hinges from old swing door reefers; many of the big doors at the Illinois Railway Museum are hung on these hinges. Anyway, Purdy had an incinerator for burning the linings out of the cars they were scrapping. As I recall, it was two tracks wide and only one car length long, built entirely out of longitudinal slices of tankcar tanks standing on end, with more of these 1/3 tank sections making the roof. Standard procedure was to slosh fuel oil into a couple cars, push them into this building, and throw a flaming rag in after them. The steel enclosure intensified the heat, and kept ashes from flying all over. After the remains of the cars cooled down, they pulled them out and cut them into bite-size chunks, ready for the furnace.

I have no idea how long this lasted; I'm sure the EPA eventually shut it down. Sometime around 1980 there were no more ice reefers to scrap, so our source of hinges dried up, and there was no reason to go down there.

Dennis Storzek

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR X28A

Dennis Storzek
 

On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 05:57 AM, Mont Switzer wrote:
During the early 1990's I made regular visits to Altoona, PA on business. While there I observed a metal building being built in an industrial area. It was sort of like your typical steel building except the vertical members were old freight car center sills. I was told they were previously under PRR cars, maybe the X28's and X29's of which you speak.

Considering the sills probably came via a scrapper they could have been around for a while. The center sills didn’t look very good in this application, but they were obviously overbuilt for this purpose.
I wonder if the building was a 'boxcar burner'? Back in the late seventies I had some dealings with Purdy Co., a scrap merchant in Hammond, Indiana, located just north of State Line Tower. We were buying hinges from old swing door reefers; many of the big doors at the Illinois Railway Museum are hung on these hinges. Anyway, Purdy had an incinerator for burning the linings out of the cars they were scrapping. As I recall, it was two tracks wide and only one car length long, built entirely out of longitudinal slices of tankcar tanks standing on end, with more of these 1/3 tank sections making the roof. Standard procedure was to slosh fuel oil into a couple cars, push them into this building, and throw a flaming rag in after them. The steel enclosure intensified the heat, and kept ashes from flying all over. After the remains of the cars cooled down, they pulled them out and cut them into bite-size chunks, ready for the furnace.

I have no idea how long this lasted; I'm sure the EPA eventually shut it down. Sometime around 1980 there were no more ice reefers to scrap, so our source of hinges dried up, and there was no reason to go down there.

Dennis Storzek

Re: Photo: Unloading Fruit From A Livestock Car

Bob Chaparro
 

Placard: Tin Cans

Just to show that tin can loads were called out for special handling:

https://aadl.org/sites/default/files/photos/N082_0371_001.jpg

Description:

"SCRAP RUBBER COLLECTIONS BEGIN TO LEAVE ANN ARBOR: Proof that Ann Arbor and Washtenaw county residents' efforts in the recently-ended scrap rubber collection campaign were not in vain is offered in this picture which shows the first shipment of scrap to leave the city. Cars shown above being loaded from the 50-ton plus pile gathered at the Staebler-Kempf station depot will carry 18 tons of rubber each to the Rubber Reserve Corp. collection depot in Cleveland from whence it will be turned over to varied rubber companies for reclaiming operations.

Published in Issue

Ann Arbor News, July 29, 1942"

Of course, somebody should have removed the placard after the car was unloaded.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR X28A

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Fabulous story, Mont! Wish I could have seen that.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mont Switzer
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 8:57 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR X28A

During the early 1990's I made regular visits to Altoona, PA on business. While there I observed a metal building being built in an industrial area. It was sort of like your typical steel building except the vertical members were old freight car center sills. I was told they were previously under PRR cars, maybe the X28's and X29's of which you speak.

Considering the sills probably came via a scrapper they could have been around for a while. The center sills didn’t look very good in this application, but they were obviously overbuilt for this purpose.

Montford L. Switzer
President
Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.
Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.
mswitzer@...
(765) 836-2914


-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 7:56 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR X28A

Ron;

Yes. Those X29, and X28A that did not get chosen for the X29B, X29D, X29E, X29F, and X29G rebuilding campaigns were being set aside for scrapping, from the late fifties thru sixties, when they were scrapping tens of thousands of less-than-useful size or condition cars. There were thousands of X28A and X29 in deadlines awaiting either rebuilding or the scrap heap. Obviously condition was everything, but numbers overwhelmed need for standard 40' box cars.

Yards like Pitcairn and E Altoona were choked with deadline cars. There are photos in some books, but it was nothing like in-person.

All these choices led to the PRR freight car shortage of the early sixties.

An X28A in SK would have been extremely unusual.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of anthony wagner
Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2020 5:45 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR X28A

Ron, I'm guessing but I think advanced age and inadequate cubic and weight capacity doomed these cars. By the late 50s 50 foot box cars were becoming the norm, often with 70 ton capacity, so older cars were disposed of as soon as they could be economically replaced. Also, though I'm not sure when, the AAR changed the longevity rule from 50 to 40 years but that also must have had an impact.Tony


On Saturday, January 25, 2020, 3:08:21 PM CST, mopacfirst <ron.merrick@...> wrote:


Thanks for all the really specific replies. I'm comfortable with doing the X28A in SK, probably well-weathered, if I decide to do it at all. I'm also working on an X26C, an X29B and an X29D, all F&C. (I like to do some similar cars at once, which is a small labor-saving advantage at least with regard to research and assembly technique.) And I have enough decals I should be able to make some good choices when I'm at the lettering stage.

My Westerfield 1/59 ORER shows 2913 X28A. I have a hard copy ORER from 1961 but it's at my other house so I can't check it. I'm really interested in the precipitous decline in the numbers of X28A after 1958 as shown in the prr.railfan.net page, so I was wondering if large numbers of these cars were being condemned or at least being gathered for scrapping rather than being in free interchange during this time.

Ron Merrick

Re: Requesting instructions for Wright Trak Seaboard V10

Donald B. Valentine
 

   Another source of door sreening for ventilated boxcars is Precision Scale #48262. I do not know
the size of the screening used on the prototyes and wonder of anyone has ever thought to measure 
this on any of the preserved cars. The PSC screening can't be more than about 2 inches x 2 inches
in HO scale and is so fine I would recommend blackening it as even the thinnest paint would likely
only plug it. It is finer screen than that used with the paint screens sold for use on the bottle tubes of
airbrushes such as the Paasches I use. I believe the filters are actually made by Badger and are sold
by Walthers as item #165-502016 for $7.60 each.

Cordially, Don Valentine














Re: Grandt Line - San Juan - American Limited - etc

Douglas Harding
 

I spoke to them last fall at the Narrow Gauge Convention in Sacramento. At that time I was told it would be 6 months to a year on some items. They had just acquired the physical assets of Rail Graphics decal the week before and were busy inventorying what they had received. As they are narrow gauge guys, they may be focusing on the narrow gauge parts first, I don't know.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2020 10:46 AM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io; bbfcl@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Grandt Line - San Juan - American Limited - etc


At the Springfield train show I talked to the new owners of Grandt Line's
products - they're bringing back many items but the one I was most
interested
in was the AB BRAKE SET - He said they tweaked their machinery to get the
several brake wheels in each set to cast properly, and that they would now
be in production again!

Tim O'Connor



--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

Re: Requesting instructions for Wright Trak Seaboard V10

Clark Cooper
 

Thanks to everyone who responded to my request. While I’m not a y'all road modeler, one of these neat cars could occasionally make an appearance.

-Clark Cooper

On Jan 26, 2020, at 6:31 PM, Allen Cain <Allencaintn@...> wrote:

Clark,

I suspect that you already got what you were looking for but here is another copy of the instructions and a few pictures that I have collected off of the internet. If you have other pics I would appreciate copies.

Allen Cain

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR X28A

Mont Switzer
 

During the early 1990's I made regular visits to Altoona, PA on business. While there I observed a metal building being built in an industrial area. It was sort of like your typical steel building except the vertical members were old freight car center sills. I was told they were previously under PRR cars, maybe the X28's and X29's of which you speak.

Considering the sills probably came via a scrapper they could have been around for a while. The center sills didn’t look very good in this application, but they were obviously overbuilt for this purpose.

Montford L. Switzer
President
Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.
Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.
mswitzer@...
(765) 836-2914

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 7:56 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR X28A

Ron;

Yes. Those X29, and X28A that did not get chosen for the X29B, X29D, X29E, X29F, and X29G rebuilding campaigns were being set aside for scrapping, from the late fifties thru sixties, when they were scrapping tens of thousands of less-than-useful size or condition cars. There were thousands of X28A and X29 in deadlines awaiting either rebuilding or the scrap heap. Obviously condition was everything, but numbers overwhelmed need for standard 40' box cars.

Yards like Pitcairn and E Altoona were choked with deadline cars. There are photos in some books, but it was nothing like in-person.

All these choices led to the PRR freight car shortage of the early sixties.

An X28A in SK would have been extremely unusual.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of anthony wagner
Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2020 5:45 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR X28A

Ron, I'm guessing but I think advanced age and inadequate cubic and weight capacity doomed these cars. By the late 50s 50 foot box cars were becoming the norm, often with 70 ton capacity, so older cars were disposed of as soon as they could be economically replaced. Also, though I'm not sure when, the AAR changed the longevity rule from 50 to 40 years but that also must have had an impact.Tony


On Saturday, January 25, 2020, 3:08:21 PM CST, mopacfirst <ron.merrick@...> wrote:


Thanks for all the really specific replies. I'm comfortable with doing the X28A in SK, probably well-weathered, if I decide to do it at all. I'm also working on an X26C, an X29B and an X29D, all F&C. (I like to do some similar cars at once, which is a small labor-saving advantage at least with regard to research and assembly technique.) And I have enough decals I should be able to make some good choices when I'm at the lettering stage.

My Westerfield 1/59 ORER shows 2913 X28A. I have a hard copy ORER from 1961 but it's at my other house so I can't check it. I'm really interested in the precipitous decline in the numbers of X28A after 1958 as shown in the prr.railfan.net page, so I was wondering if large numbers of these cars were being condemned or at least being gathered for scrapping rather than being in free interchange during this time.

Ron Merrick

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR X28A

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Ron;

Yes. Those X29, and X28A that did not get chosen for the X29B, X29D, X29E, X29F, and X29G rebuilding campaigns were being set aside for scrapping, from the late fifties thru sixties, when they were scrapping tens of thousands of less-than-useful size or condition cars. There were thousands of X28A and X29 in deadlines awaiting either rebuilding or the scrap heap. Obviously condition was everything, but numbers overwhelmed need for standard 40' box cars.

Yards like Pitcairn and E Altoona were choked with deadline cars. There are photos in some books, but it was nothing like in-person.

All these choices led to the PRR freight car shortage of the early sixties.

An X28A in SK would have been extremely unusual.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of anthony wagner
Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2020 5:45 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR X28A

Ron, I'm guessing but I think advanced age and inadequate cubic and weight capacity doomed these cars. By the late 50s 50 foot box cars were becoming the norm, often with 70 ton capacity, so older cars were disposed of as soon as they could be economically replaced. Also, though I'm not sure when, the AAR changed the longevity rule from 50 to 40 years but that also must have had an impact.Tony


On Saturday, January 25, 2020, 3:08:21 PM CST, mopacfirst <ron.merrick@...> wrote:


Thanks for all the really specific replies. I'm comfortable with doing the X28A in SK, probably well-weathered, if I decide to do it at all. I'm also working on an X26C, an X29B and an X29D, all F&C. (I like to do some similar cars at once, which is a small labor-saving advantage at least with regard to research and assembly technique.) And I have enough decals I should be able to make some good choices when I'm at the lettering stage.

My Westerfield 1/59 ORER shows 2913 X28A. I have a hard copy ORER from 1961 but it's at my other house so I can't check it. I'm really interested in the precipitous decline in the numbers of X28A after 1958 as shown in the prr.railfan.net page, so I was wondering if large numbers of these cars were being condemned or at least being gathered for scrapping rather than being in free interchange during this time.

Ron Merrick

Re: Video of someone assembling a boxcar

Jack Mullen
 

Boy will they be surprised when they find out that boxcar kit is actually a reefer. I suppose it was ebayed and not in the original box.  ;^)

Jack Mullen

Re: Car End Data

radiodial868
 

Westerfield instruction sheets rarely show car end data, no matter the era, even in as-built lettering. No help there.
Perusing all the Focus on Freight Cars books (images are 1930's) and the Steam Era Freight Car Reference Manual, I've decided to do whatever feels right, and no one can really argue!  (as long as the car had the listed features). But by 1939, they were rare, so that's the plan I will stay with. The equipment data decals mostly appear on decal sheets where the original builders photos or livery drawings were available, but appeared to not stick around much longer after 1927 as Dave mentions, with the possible exception of AB Brake conversions.
Thanks to all that replied,
RJ Dial

Re: Photos: 140 Foot Tank On 3 Flatcars (edited message)

Ralph W. Brown
 

Edited message follows:
 
Hi john, et al.,
 
Drawing from your listing of possible candidates, and being a certified (or maybe certifiable) SPF, I did a little research regarding the PRR cars listed.
 
The hundred PRR Class F30 50’ flat cars numbered 470100-470199 were built in 1929 of riveted construction using pressed steel shapes and rode on a single pair of PRR 2E-F4 or 2E-F4A trucks.  In 1942, most were upgraded to 190,000 lbs. capacity with the application of AB brakes and 2F-F4 trucks.  The nearest flat car in the first two images (outside the plant) clearly are not PRR Class F30 flat cars.  See: Pennsylvania Railroad Flat Cars Revenue & Work Equipment, 1881 to 1968 by Elden Gatwood and Al Buchan, pp. 43-44.
 
PRR 470200-470202 were PRR Class F34 flat cars.  PRR 470200 and 470201 were railroad built at Altoona in 1938, and PRR 470202 followed in 1943.  These cars had a capacity of 375,000 lbs.  They each has two sets of AB brakes and rode on two sets of two PRR 2F-F3 four-wheel trucks with each set being connected by a span bolster.  Given the date of the photograph, one of these cars, especially one of the first two of them, is a strong possibility for that nearest flat in the first two images.  The stirrup steps at the corner appear to be an exact match for the car in question.  See: Pennsylvania Railroad Flat Cars Revenue & Work Equipment, 1881 to 1968 by Elden Gatwood and Al Buchan, pp. 61-63.
 
PRR Class F36 consisted of the thirty flat cars numbered 470205-470235.  The cars date from 1940, each had a capacity of 250,000 lbs., and were of welded construction.  Inasmuch as they rode on PRR 3F-F3 six-wheel Buckeye trucks, they are not candidates for the car in question.  See: Pennsylvania Railroad Flat Cars Revenue & Work Equipment, 1881 to 1968 by Elden Gatwood and Al Buchan, pp. 65-68.
 
Incidentally, I’d recommend Elden’s and Al’s PRR flat car book to anyone interested in PRR flat cars.  It’s my go to resource on the subject.  This duo also authored a similarly titled book on PRR gondolas that is my go to source on that subject.
 
Hope that helps.
 
Pax,
 
 
Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
 

From: John Barry
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2020 7:37 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photos: 140 Foot Tank On 3 Flatcars
 

There aren’t many possibilities.  We can eliminate the short FM and FG cars, as well as the FD and FW cars.  That leaves the following FM flats from the Oct44 ORER list of Heavy Capacity Flat Cars

C&O 80950-80959             56’9

Erie 7220-7224   50’9

NYC 499000, 499007       40’10

NYC 499015-499019         35’6 (probably not)

NYC 499035-499039         34’8 (probably not)

NYC 499041-499042         47’

NYC&StL 2900-2901         50’9

PRR 470100-470199         50”

PRR 470200-470202         45’

PRR 470206-470235         50’

P&LE 6885-6889                36’7

SP 44091-44094                 45’

And a longer FG

C&NW 48051, 48053       45’

I'm not familiar with all of the HD flats, but this should narrow the search as it's likely that several of the above don't have the double truck bolsters.
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights
Lovettsville, VA
 
707-490-9696
 
PO Box 44736
Washington, DC 20026-4736
 
 
On Sunday, January 26, 2020, 06:32:23 PM EST, Jack Mullen <jack.f.mullen@...> wrote:
 
 
On Sun, Jan 26, 2020 at 12:09 PM, Tony Thompson wrote:
Can anyone see whose flat cars they are? I can't read any of the cars.
No luck, the scans are rather low-rez and details just disappear into pixel legos as I zoom in.  What may be reporting marks  appear just left of center of the left-hand car in the first photo. That area resolves to what seem to be three characters.
This car, closest to the camera in the two outdoor photos, seems to have a cast steel body, which brings the Commonwealth CNW/PRR/SP 44' 200 ton cars that have been modeled in several scales to mind. However, unless it's an illusion caused by photo lens and angle, the car appears somewhat longer, and the trucks seem to have the proportions of 5'6"+ wb, rather than the 5'0" of at least the PRR and C&NW cars.  The truck sideframes are flat-topped, lacking the characteristic arch of the 5'0" 100 ton trucks.  So maybe a similar cast car, but say 47-50' length?
Who else had similar cars? NYC and D&H come to mind, but I don't have hard data or photos at hand.
The car bearing the other end of the load, closest to the camera, is different - riveted construction, and with stake pockets, which we don't often see on very heavy-duty flats.  The welding flare obscures what I think are the marks and number.
Hope these clues help somebody recognize these...

BTW, it's not " William Boiler & Manufacturing Company", but "William Bros...", and Bros is a name, not the abbreviation for brothers. They also made snowplows, some for railroads.

Jack Mullen