Date   
Re: Seatrain Ships

Charlie Vlk
 

All-

Popular Science and Popular Mechanics are a source of many good railroad (freight car) images and articles.  Fascinating look into the past when people were interested in how things worked and doing things with their hands.

Quite a contrast to today’s “Popular Science” which is more of a catalog for Sharper Image with opinion pieces on technical and scientific issues.

Charlie Vlk

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2019 10:40 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Seatrain Ships

 

Seatrain Ships

At the risk of going overboard on this topic, here are some links with more information, photos and diagrams on the Seatrain car ferries. The film is especially interesting.

Bob Chaparro

Port of Hemet, CA

++++

Popular Science Article, 1929

https://books.google.com/books?id=bCoDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA53&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=true

Popular Mechanics Articel, 1947

https://books.google.com/books?id=0N4DAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA122#v=onepage&q&f=true

Film: Seatrain New Orleans

Film made in 1929. A lot of footage showing cars being moved inside the ship.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBE9mzU_9OQ

Loading Illustration

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f4/Seatrain_Method.jpg

Seatrain ferry loading 1956

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3153401      

The specialist crane hoist the cradle loaded with an ATSF boxcar from the Seatrain Louisiana

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/Seatrain_Louisiana%2C_Hoisting_ATSF_Railroad_Freight_Car_from_Cargo_Hold%2C_Seatrain_Lines.jpg

Seatrain Loader,  Belle Chasse, LA

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1846297

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4624402

Re: Odd (to me) Monon car

Tim O'Connor
 

The state "full crew" laws were hilariously written so poorly that these "cabeese"
could be placed anywhere in the train. The Wabash had similar cars and would just put
people inside for the ride. They had nothing to do but hold on for dear life.

On 12/15/2019 3:41 PM, Seth Lakin via Groups.Io wrote:
Yes Salem, Indiana on the Monon. The Monon built in the company shops these “head end cabooses”. They housed the head end brakeman and any LCL that may be carried to be distributed along the line. They were typically used on the wayfreight trains that ran each section of the line. I would have to dig my notes out but there were 6-8 of them built in the late 40’s from flats.

Seth Lakin
Michigan City IN
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

Re: SP/SSW "DF" loader symbol decal: Is the one"

Tim O'Connor
 

Tony

lol - ok, ignore my reply :-P



On 12/15/2019 3:33 PM, Tony Thompson wrote:

On Dec 15, 2019, at 12:19 PM, Tony Thompson wrote:
     Background color was an orangish-yellow, as Norm Buckhart showed. This has been done in bright yellow by some manufacturers (incorrectly), but was once done right by Walthers in HO scale. Border and letters are black.
      If you have my SP boxcar book, the lettering drawing for this is on page 354.

     Shouldna typed so fast. Obviously it is the letters and border that are orange, and the background black. Sheesh.

Tony Thompson


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: SP/SSW "DF" loader symbol decal: Is the one"

Tim O'Connor
 


What the?? Tony, the letters were orange-yellow and the rest was black,
with an orange-yellow border - just as Bill Welch describes.

This was done nicely on Proto 2000 B-50-22 cars.

Photos of the style are extremely rare! :-(

The style did not last long, as seen in the photo of T&NO 70287. Black on yellow
was much more visible than yellow over black.

Tim O'Connor





On 12/15/2019 3:19 PM, Tony Thompson wrote:
Bill Welch wrote:

I looked first on the Microscale website for the attached "DF" Loader symbol used by the SP and SSW and maybe others. Does anyone know if this is available anywhere? I think the "DF" and border are yellow. Can anyone advise the background, border and letter colors please?

     Background color was an orangish-yellow, as Norm Buckhart showed. This has been done in bright yellow by some manufacturers (incorrectly), but was once done right by Walthers in HO scale. Border and letters are black.
      If you have my SP boxcar book, the lettering drawing for this is on page 354.

Tony Thompson


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Seatrain Ships

Bob Webber
 

There's also an article in Warships International on some of the ships' service in WW II - as can be imagined, they were excellent in terms of moving heavy land vehicles (and landing same).  If I'm not mistaken, these were "chartered" by the Army - not the Navy.  The Army attempted to garner the whole fleet.

They also were used to haul  freight cars to France and other overseas destinations..  This had the benefit of not having to knock down the built "kits" to be rebuilt ashore.  And then..some of those cars had kits as loads within.  At least some of the kits and built up kits were from Bessemer. 

 There is also an image of a load of reefers no one of the ships..where THAT one is can not be recalled at the moment. 

At 10:39 AM 12/16/2019, you wrote:

Seatrain Ships

At the risk of going overboard on this topic, here are some links with more information, photos and diagrams on the Seatrain car ferries. The film is especially interesting.

Bob Chaparro

Bob Webber

Re: MONON gon spiral end

Bill Keene
 

Are decals available to model this car?

Thanks & Happy Modeling,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA



On Dec 16, 2019, at 5:20 AM, Douglas Harding <doug.harding@...> wrote:


New Resin Car Works mini-kit

Ken Soroos
 

Gentlemen -

I’m sorry for this last thread being posted to the RealSTMFC website. It was meant to be a personal reply to Eric, but I used the post from the site and neglected to change the address.. My fault completely.

Ken

Re: New Resin Car Works mini-kit

Ken Soroos
 

Hi Eric -

Not a problem.  These things are usually listed on the kit inserts, but with the Mini-Kits that space has been taken up with the background information.  Have a great Holiday Season!

Ken



On Dec 16, 2019, at 11:00 AM, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

My fault on this one. I had updated the info but forgot to upload the new page. This should now list the correct kit credits. Hit refresh if some names are still in bold lettering.
 
 
Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN
 
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ken Soroos
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2019 9:11 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] New Resin Car Works mini-kit
 
Hi Eric -
 
Looking over this post on the website, I noticed that Ted Culotta is listed as having done the decals.  I actually did them for the IC car this time.
 
Ken


On Dec 14, 2019, at 7:10 AM, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:
 
Resin Car Works has released a new HO scale mini-kit to build an Illinois Central single-sheathed boxcar. Kit details are featured in our latest blog post. 
 
 
 
Eric Hansmann
RCW web guy
 


Seatrain Ships

Bob Chaparro
 

Seatrain Ships

At the risk of going overboard on this topic, here are some links with more information, photos and diagrams on the Seatrain car ferries. The film is especially interesting.

Bob Chaparro

Port of Hemet, CA

++++

Popular Science Article, 1929

https://books.google.com/books?id=bCoDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA53&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=true

Popular Mechanics Articel, 1947

https://books.google.com/books?id=0N4DAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA122#v=onepage&q&f=true

Film: Seatrain New Orleans

Film made in 1929. A lot of footage showing cars being moved inside the ship.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBE9mzU_9OQ

Loading Illustration

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f4/Seatrain_Method.jpg

Seatrain ferry loading 1956

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3153401       

The specialist crane hoist the cradle loaded with an ATSF boxcar from the Seatrain Louisiana

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/Seatrain_Louisiana%2C_Hoisting_ATSF_Railroad_Freight_Car_from_Cargo_Hold%2C_Seatrain_Lines.jpg

Seatrain Loader,  Belle Chasse, LA

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1846297

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4624402

Re: New Resin Car Works mini-kit

Eric Hansmann
 

My fault on this one. I had updated the info but forgot to upload the new page. This should now list the correct kit credits. Hit refresh if some names are still in bold lettering.

http://resincarworks.com/extras/extras_minikit3-01_IC_1927xm.htm

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ken Soroos
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2019 9:11 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] New Resin Car Works mini-kit

 

Hi Eric -

 

Looking over this post on the website, I noticed that Ted Culotta is listed as having done the decals.  I actually did them for the IC car this time.

 

Ken



On Dec 14, 2019, at 7:10 AM, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

 

Resin Car Works has released a new HO scale mini-kit to build an Illinois Central single-sheathed boxcar. Kit details are featured in our latest blog post.

 

 

 

Eric Hansmann
RCW web guy

 

Open Top loads

Douglas Harding
 

In response to Tony's question, and to share with everyone, I have created a
folder in the Op Sig group files section titled "AAR open top car loading
rules"
This may be found at
https://groups.io/g/Ry-ops-industrialSIG/files/AAR%20Car%20Codes/AAR%20Open%
20Top%20Car%20Loading%20Rules

In it I have uploaded copies of the AAR booklets for Rules Governing loading
open top cars, which I recently acquired.

Section 1 Rules 1988
Section 2 Loading Pipe 1987
Section 3 Road Farm Equipment 1987
Section 4 Misc Machinery 1987
Section 5 Forest Products 1983 & 1987 (1983 version has more pages)
Section 6 DOD Military 1984
Section 7 TOFC Containers 1987

They were scanned, creating searchable pdfs, totaling about 190mb.

This will not answer Tony's questions about hoppers and covered hoppers, but
should give an excellent idea of what was transported in gons. More
important these booklets have drawings showing the proper way to load and
secure a wide variety of loads. Great for modeling ideas.

If you are not able to access the Op Sig group files, let me know. I can
load them to the this group files.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org

Visit our extended files area at: https://groups.io/g/OPS-INDfiles

Re: New Resin Car Works mini-kit

Ken Soroos
 

Hi Eric -

Looking over this post on the website, I noticed that Ted Culotta is listed as having done the decals.  I actually did them for the IC car this time.

Ken

On Dec 14, 2019, at 7:10 AM, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

Resin Car Works has released a new HO scale mini-kit to build an Illinois Central single-sheathed boxcar. Kit details are featured in our latest blog post.



Eric Hansmann
RCW web guy


Re: Odd (to me) Monon car

Mont Switzer
 

My apologies to the STMF group for the trucking stuff in this message. I didn't know that response was going to the entire group.

Montford L. Switzer
President
Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.
Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.
mswitzer@...
(765) 836-2914

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mont Switzer
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2019 8:02 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Cc: William Darnaby <wdarnaby@...>; Tim Bachus <lvc420@...>; Ron Marquardt <marquardt@...>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Odd (to me) Monon car

Ron,

We ran into the rider caboose issue when modeling the Transfer at Monon. When/how were the rider cars moved to the Transfer house for loading of LCL before going out on locals?

I asked Cookie and he told me they never did use the "baggage" end of the rider cars for LCL. LCL was loaded in clean dry boxcars, preferably with doors that worked easily.

Every time I looked in one of the rider cars the "baggage" end was full of tools of the trade: cables, re-railers, knuckles and assorted junk. One wag even had an overstuffed reclining easy chair strategically located near the large door opening. Tough duty.

After the recliner episode I thought I had seen it all until one was removed from a conventional GMC (small day cab) semi-tractor at Bender & Loudon Motor Freight, Inc. I still don't know how the driver assigned to the tractor got it in there because the shop had a hell of a time getting it out. Company policy was only one seat per tractor and it was reserved for the driver.

Mont

Montford L. Switzer
President
Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.
Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.
mswitzer@...
(765) 836-2914

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Penny Simunic
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2019 5:38 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Odd (to me) Monon car

Monon rider car. Used in Indiana to allow LCL shipments. Also to accommodate the extra conductor, for extra crewman in Indiana. Not sure how it ended up out West. In later years used as tool car.
RonS

Re: Odd (to me) Monon car

Mont Switzer
 

Bill Darnaby's explanation of the SP&S Alco RS and what the Monon called:

1. rider cars
2. head end cabooses

Is spot on. The rider cars, a total of 8 were built on low side stone gon frames.

These gons, built by Pullman Standard in Michigan City in 1926. Other than their all wood interiors which were required for cut stone loading the riveted steel portions were virtually indestructible. In addition to the head end cabooses these frames were used to make ten 40 ft. flat cars, 40 piggy-back flats, upwards of 30 coke racks, and countless company service cars of all sizes and shapes. Some cars even survived as built in MofW service until the L&N merger in 1971.

A recent review of disposition (destroyed due to damage) records for these cars seem to indicate that In the steam era they could be seen all over the eastern half of the USA almost certainly hauling cut limestone to large building projects. This was back in the day when many large building projects had a temporary rail siding built right up to the job site. Others had draymen moving the cut stone pieces to the job sites.

Mont

Montford L. Switzer
President
Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.
Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.
mswitzer@...
(765) 836-2914

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Craig Zeni
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2019 3:48 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Odd (to me) Monon car


On Dec 15, 2019, at 3:31 PM, main@RealSTMFC.groups.io wrote:

6a. Odd (to me) Monon car
From: spsalso <Edwardsutorik@...>
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2019 15:15:11 EST

In the slide below, there's an odd looking Monon car just behind the loco. Photo was taken at Salem, Oregon.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Duplicate-Slide-SP-S-Spokane-Portland-Seattle-ALCO-RS2-64-W-Train-Salem-OR/401998668873?hash=item5d98fce449:g:WpkAAOSwzNFd9eyG

I'm curious what the car is and why it was in Oregon.

Any opinions?

Ed
Not opinion, but fact...it's not Oregon. It's Salem, Indiana. The Monon leased a few SP&S RS-2s in the 1960s. The odd car is what's called a Rider Caboose...a 'front end' caboose was required by Indiana state law for trains longer than 65 cars.

Forgot to sign the first one...


Craig Zeni
Cary NC

MONON gon spiral end

Douglas Harding
 

Re: Odd (to me) Monon car

Mont Switzer
 

Ron,

We ran into the rider caboose issue when modeling the Transfer at Monon. When/how were the rider cars moved to the Transfer house for loading of LCL before going out on locals?

I asked Cookie and he told me they never did use the "baggage" end of the rider cars for LCL. LCL was loaded in clean dry boxcars, preferably with doors that worked easily.

Every time I looked in one of the rider cars the "baggage" end was full of tools of the trade: cables, re-railers, knuckles and assorted junk. One wag even had an overstuffed reclining easy chair strategically located near the large door opening. Tough duty.

After the recliner episode I thought I had seen it all until one was removed from a conventional GMC (small day cab) semi-tractor at Bender & Loudon Motor Freight, Inc. I still don't know how the driver assigned to the tractor got it in there because the shop had a hell of a time getting it out. Company policy was only one seat per tractor and it was reserved for the driver.

Mont

Montford L. Switzer
President
Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.
Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.
mswitzer@...
(765) 836-2914

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Penny Simunic
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2019 5:38 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Odd (to me) Monon car

Monon rider car. Used in Indiana to allow LCL shipments. Also to accommodate the extra conductor, for extra crewman in Indiana. Not sure how it ended up out West. In later years used as tool car.
RonS

Re: Photo: NKP Boxcar 27664

Ray Breyer
 

Nice shot! I need to work it into an article at some point.

NKP 27664 was one of 1,000 cars built for the NKP by Haskell & Barker in 1908. A basic Vanderbilt syndicate car design, it was one of 4,300 identical boxcars built for the NKP in 1907 and 1908 (the largest single group of identical freight cars owned by that road).

Originally an all-wood car, it was rebuilt in the early 1920s with a Hutchins roof, I-beam crash posts on the ends, and a steel center sill underframe. The car is also wearing its third lettering scheme.

The cars were all retired by 1939 by the NKP, but several hundred were retained for the road's MOW fleet. Several hundred more were sold to Hyman-Michaels, who sold them to several small roads just before WWII. The largest group, 300 cars, went to the M&StL. That road re-sold several to other roads, including the ITC, NdeM, and US Army (for use in munition plants).

Up to four of these cars still survive. One is a stablemate of NKP 765, one is in the collection of the recently-imploded railroad museum in Noblesville IN, and two of the former M&StL cars MAY still survive as part of the Boone & Scenic RR's collection in Iowa.

I wrote a lengthy article on the NKP's wood boxcar fleet for the Winter 2014 issue of the Nickel Plate Road Magazine, and a modeling article on the 25000s in the June 2015 issue of the Nickel Plate Road Modeler's Notebook. The decals for these cars available from RCW were based on my research and the art talent of Dr. Dave Campbell.

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


On Sunday, December 15, 2019, 04:28:54 PM CST, lrkdbn via Groups.Io <lrkdbn@...> wrote:


Another car I've been looking for! Ray Breyer at the NKP group knows a lot about these cars,and the NKPHTS
modeler's on line magazine has articles. Decals can be had from Resin Car Works.
Larry King

Odd (to me) Monon car

Andy Carlson
 

Lacking a freight car (my apologies) though a wooden head end car, here is another SP&S RS 2 #64 in Indiana. Taken in 1966.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA




On Sunday, December 15, 2019, 12:15:18 PM PST, spsalso via Groups.Io <edwardsutorik@...> wrote:


In the slide below, there's an odd looking Monon car just behind the loco.  Photo was taken at Salem, Oregon.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Duplicate-Slide-SP-S-Spokane-Portland-Seattle-ALCO-RS2-64-W-Train-Salem-OR/401998668873?hash=item5d98fce449:g:WpkAAOSwzNFd9eyG

I'm curious what the car is and why it was in Oregon.

Any opinions?



Ed

Edward Sutorik

Re: Odd (to me) Monon car

william darnaby
 

Actually, the Monon leased two of the SP&S engines while the Monon was upgrading their own nine engines (2 at a time) with new prime movers and improved electrical gear to make them more compatible with the 628’s so one could be run as a sandwich between two 628’s to create a HP/tractive effort combination more appropriate for Monon conditions.

 

The first 4 of these rider cars were built in ’46 and saw service behind steam.  The second 4 were built in ‘52 after converted troop kitchen cars were considered unsatisfactory in this service.  All were built on cut limestone service flats…actually low side composite gons…from the 20’s.  The Monon had 500 of these gons at one time but the Depression kind of killed that type of construction except for some government buildings.

 

Bill Darnaby

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dave Strahlendorf
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2019 3:53 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Odd (to me) Monon car

 

Yeah, that slide is mis-labeled. That is not on SP&S rails, but on the Monon. The Monon faced a power shortage in 1966 due to their return of several Alco C628s to the manufacturer, and had to lease these SP&S engines until Alco could produce the 628s replacement.

 

The car trailing the locomotive is a 'Rider' car that was required by State Law for 'locals' exceeding a certain size. These were home built by the Monon at the Lafayette, Indiana Shops Mont Switzer can provide a more thorough description of these cars. 

 

In HO, at one time they were offered by Overland Models.

 

Dave Strahlendorf

Erlanger, Ky

Re: Odd (to me) Monon car

william darnaby
 

In the late 60’s I took a photo of one of the B&O’s cars in Indianapolis made from an M26.  It had a side step for the door and caboose grab and ladder type equipment.  Other roads just used an extra caboose at the head end.  Some extended the steam engine cab for the extra seat and a notable one had a tender dog house.  The Monon and NKP found it useful to have the boss at the head end on locals and made cars for that because it was handy to have the conductor right there when the engine stopped at the depot to see the agent, particularly when the train had some length.  Saved walking or backing and forthing.

 

Bill Darnaby

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Seth Lakin via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2019 6:32 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Odd (to me) Monon car

 

Craig wrote:” a 'front end' caboose was required by Indiana state law for trains longer than 65 cars.”


Not exactly, Indiana’s full crew law stated
”It shall be unlawful for any carrier to operate a freight train consisting of seventy (70) cars or more, without a crew of competent employees, which crew shall consist of not less than one (1) engineer, one (1) fireman, one (1) conductor, one (1) flagman, and two (2) brakemen.”

The law did not specify a head end caboose. But the Monon and NKP utilized such cars. The NKP cars were converted from 36’ wood sided boxcars. The NYC had almost identical but the NYC used them in transfer and terminal service.


Seth Lakin
Michigan City IN