Date   
Re: is "hogging" a correct word for adjusting truss rod equipped cars

Jim Betz
 

  My brother worked in trucking in the 70's, 80's, and 90's.  The company
he worked for specialized in flat bed trucks.  They had one guy in the
shop who was the only one who was 'trusted' to re-camber the trailers.
He did so by using a heat gun or torch and causing the linear beams
of the flat bed trailer to regain the proper amount of camber.  When he
was done the trailer had about a 4" to 6" rise in the center (unloaded).
  Pretty much the same idea as "tapping the truss rods to see if they
all had the same tone" ... *G*  My brother did not say that he tapped
the bed/frame with a hammer and listened (but he might have).  What
he did say was that the guy would put the trailer somewhere in the
yard where he could stand back from it and look at the arch.  His
skill was in knowing where to apply heat to get the proper amount
of arch and also not have the trailer "twisted" ... and I'm sure he had
to let it cool before saying "it's done".
                                                                 - Jim B. in Burlington, Wa.

Re: Susquehanna 40’ boxcars c1940-48

Steve Salotti
 

Not sure if this is going to the group, if so sorry, it's old news.  On August 26th John Sykes mentioned a roster for the NYS&W, I've downloaded it and have a question about the roster.  There are two groups of hoppers listed, John, is one group the Erie horizontal rib cars as produced by Funaro & Carmerlengo, and the other standard style hoppers?  

TIA Steve Salotti

Re: is "hogging" a correct word for adjusting truss rod equipped cars

Charles Peck
 

When I was working at the Kentucky Railway Museum, I met an old carman.
He told me he had just started on the railroad the only time he had to deal with truss rods. He said they tightened trussrods by sounding with a hammer.  A dull note was too loose.  One that was sharper than the others was too tight. All should have about the same sound when struck. 
The correct tone is something one learns from experience, I suppose.
Chuck Peck

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 11:04 AM Randy Hees <randyhees@...> wrote:
As suggested, "Hogging" "Hog backed" or "Hogged" are terms, used for wooden railroad cars (mostly flat cars, as the wall truss in box cars make them less susceptible) which have had their truss rods tightened too much.  As noted by others it comes from wooden ships, which would hog because the center of the hull was more buoyant than the ends.

Unlike modern flat semi trailers which are designed with a hog which flattens under load, a hogged railroad car was not desirable.  It generally was thought of as a worn out car, hogged as car inspectors tightened the truss rods as the wooden sills failed, and end beams crushed.  I suspect that a hogged car was more  likely to fail in train service, especially when unloaded, as the train bunched behind them.

I spent nearly 3 months researching how to tighten truss and tension rods for a restoration project.  I read every copy of National Car Builder, every issue of Railroad Gazette, every issue of Railroad Engineering, all the Master Car Builders proceedings, Voss and Kirkman.  There was nothing in writing about how tight a car's truss rods should be tightened, nothing on how to do it (do you jack and block the car straight or can you pull it straight by tightening the truss rods?)  I turned to wood truss bridges, particularly those being rebuilt in modern times with preservation studies... again nothing...  Apparently this was not how that knowledge was taught...  I did find information in interchange rules on how much a railroad could charge if they tightened truss rods or replaced a truss rod on the queen post if became unseated on an off road car,,,  The allowance for tightening as less than the minimum billable amount (but could be charged if other work was done).  resenting a truss rod was independently billable. 

Randy Hees

Re: is "hogging" a correct word for adjusting truss rod equipped cars

Randy Hees
 

As suggested, "Hogging" "Hog backed" or "Hogged" are terms, used for wooden railroad cars (mostly flat cars, as the wall truss in box cars make them less susceptible) which have had their truss rods tightened too much.  As noted by others it comes from wooden ships, which would hog because the center of the hull was more buoyant than the ends.

Unlike modern flat semi trailers which are designed with a hog which flattens under load, a hogged railroad car was not desirable.  It generally was thought of as a worn out car, hogged as car inspectors tightened the truss rods as the wooden sills failed, and end beams crushed.  I suspect that a hogged car was more  likely to fail in train service, especially when unloaded, as the train bunched behind them.

I spent nearly 3 months researching how to tighten truss and tension rods for a restoration project.  I read every copy of National Car Builder, every issue of Railroad Gazette, every issue of Railroad Engineering, all the Master Car Builders proceedings, Voss and Kirkman.  There was nothing in writing about how tight a car's truss rods should be tightened, nothing on how to do it (do you jack and block the car straight or can you pull it straight by tightening the truss rods?)  I turned to wood truss bridges, particularly those being rebuilt in modern times with preservation studies... again nothing...  Apparently this was not how that knowledge was taught...  I did find information in interchange rules on how much a railroad could charge if they tightened truss rods or replaced a truss rod on the queen post if became unseated on an off road car,,,  The allowance for tightening as less than the minimum billable amount (but could be charged if other work was done).  resenting a truss rod was independently billable. 

Randy Hees

Re: GALVANIZED STERL CULVERT PIPE

mopacfirst
 

I ordered some too, nice looking parts.  Perhaps the corrugations are a bit oversize for HO, so maybe they'd look appropriate for O.  But I think the lengths are about right for what I know about the prototype.  I haven't looked up the actual AASTHO spec M-36 to see what it says.

They're not bright like brand-new galvanized steel is, but I was thinking more as actual installed culvert pipe, meaning I'd cut up a couple of joints of this pipe to install in the scenery.  I might eventually use them as a load, or to be stacked in a material yard somewhere.

Ron Merrick

Re: GALVANIZED STERL CULVERT PIPE

Brad Andonian
 

I have been in contact with them hoping to get an o scale version....

I think they stated there are limitations with their printer.
brad andonian 

Baltimore & Ohio early diesel lettering font

Brad Andonian
 

I am working on an AS-16 and alco switcher and need info on lettering.

i know it was delux gold on blue ( scale coat has the shade) what was the font used?

this is the spelled out Baltimore and Ohio.
thanks,
brad andonian 

Re: is "hogging" a correct word for adjusting truss rod equipped cars

Dennis Storzek
 

The modern term in car building is camber; TTX flats are built with a camber. However, I can see where in our agrarian past comparisons to the shape of a hog's back could become common terms.

Dennis Storzek 

Chicagoland Clinic: Machinist Tools

Bill Welch
 

If you are a modeler be sure to catch Ryan Mendell's clinic about Machinist's Tools. He is in charge of the Univ. of Toronto's Engineering Dept. Shop and knows his tools. I should add that my checking account was barking at me for a couple of weeks after.

Bill Welch

Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] P&LE Gondola

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Very nice shot, Garth!

I like the very visible B end details, which you don't often have a clear view of.

Thanks for sharing!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Garth Groff
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2019 4:28 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] P&LE Gondola

Friends,

Some years ago I copied this photo from a government document, probably a War Department / Army Transportation Corps manual. I believe it was on US military railroads in WWII, but can't remember the particulars. Never mind.

What is interesting is the P&LE 46' drop-end gondola with a steel floor. This is from series 42000-42999, of which there were still 45 in service in 1958, along with 25 more of nearly identical dimensions in series 45000-46999. Cool car.

Also of interest are the two crates, probably from the guard, filled with military gear. Who says double-stacks are a modern invention.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

Re: P&LE Gondola

Donald B. Valentine
 

     I believe u are correct, Todd, and also wonder if Photoshop even existed at the time especially since it is stated that
the photo was taken from a manual a number of years ago. Gary must have been overtired.

Cordially, Don Valentine

Re: P&LE Gondola

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Chad,

Upon reflection, I believe this photo actually shows four crates. While a crate could be over 40' long, I can't see one bending in the middle.

As for load securing banding or other tackle, my interpretation is that the load securing is already gone, either in the actual scene, or done in the darkroom to make a better composition. For example, I don't see is a line actually lifting the upper crate. Well, they didn't have Photoshop in those days, but I suspect that the original photo was retouched to make a better composition, and for possible security reasons.

Also note the large black patches on both crates. This suggests to me that for security reasons some military data or destination indicator has been "redacted", as they say today about documents. There is also strapping on the lower crate to the left of the soldier standing on the car's corner. No such strapping shows on the crate above.
I was a military photographer before the days of digital images, and am familiar with retouching techniques, which I occasionally practiced myself. (I once retouched an award photo we published on the front page of our military newspaper of an officer who used to harass me, giving him a seedy 4-o'clock shadow -- I could be quite naughty sometimes, and somehow never got caught.)

I'm pretty sure the crates are being loaded onto the ship, rather than the other way around. If some gear was coming back from overseas (say captured enemy equipment for study), it would less likely be so carefully crated in matching containers.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 10/22/2019 12:46 AM, Todd Sullivan via Groups.Io wrote:
Gary,

I don't think it's photo shopped.  The number and initials on the far end of the gondola match those on the near end. 

There is an apparent optical illusion due to the guy standing on the forks of the forklift, but I think it's one photo.  It looks like these crates could be in the process of being loaded onto or unloaded from the ship in the background, perhaps at a military base.  Surely, if the crates were to be transported any distance, they would have to be secured to the gon.

Todd Sullivan

Re: is "hogging" a correct word for adjusting truss rod equipped cars

Nolan Hinshaw
 

On Oct 21, 2019, at 18:13, Charles Peck <@Chuckles> wrote:

I believe that "hogging" would be exactly the correct usage. I have worked on paddlewheel steamboats that had what were called "hog chains" for exactly that same purpose, to take out the sag.
If an empty car is given a slight rise in the middle (a hog back), then when loaded it will flatten out. Loose truss rods allow the car to sag, the opposite
of hogged.
Chuck Peck
Hogging as applied to vessels is what happens to the ends, which are less buoyant than the middle - they sag. The hog chains are to reduce the hogging. Long, faiy sharp wooden hulls in later days had diagonal straps let into the ends to resist hogging; they didn’t always work well enough.

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Re: P&LE Gondola

Todd Sullivan
 

Gary,

I don't think it's photo shopped.  The number and initials on the far end of the gondola match those on the near end. 

There is an apparent optical illusion due to the guy standing on the forks of the forklift, but I think it's one photo.  It looks like these crates could be in the process of being loaded onto or unloaded from the ship in the background, perhaps at a military base.  Surely, if the crates were to be transported any distance, they would have to be secured to the gon.

Todd Sullivan

GALVANIZED STERL CULVERT PIPE

WILLIAM PARDIE
 


Just as I was headed out the door to Lysle I received the culvert pipe from Gain Belt Models that was discussed last week  A little shorter than I expected (25 scale feet) but a good looking product and will make a nice load.

Bill Pardie


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphoneI was headed out the door to Lysle

Re: P&LE Gondola

gary laakso
 

It’s a photo shopped picture.  Look at the forward end of the car (A) and it is GRa while the B end is a G22 same gondola.  Notice the machinery is on the GRa end of the car and the crates are on the B end and behind the machinery.    

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Garth Groff
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2019 1:28 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] P&LE Gondola

 

Friends,

Some years ago I copied this photo from a government document, probably a War Department / Army Transportation Corps manual. I believe it was on US military railroads in WWII, but can't remember the particulars. Never mind.

What is interesting is the P&LE 46' drop-end gondola with a steel floor. This is from series 42000-42999, of which there were still 45 in service in 1958, along with 25 more of nearly identical dimensions in series 45000-46999. Cool car.

Also of interest are the two crates, probably from the guard, filled with military gear. Who says double-stacks are a modern invention.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

Re: is "hogging" a correct word for adjusting truss rod equipped cars

Charles Peck
 

I believe that "hogging" would be exactly the correct usage. I have worked on paddlewheel steamboats that had what were called "hog chains" for exactly that same purpose, to take out the sag.
If an empty car is given a slight rise in the middle (a hog back), then when loaded it will flatten out.  Loose truss rods allow the car to sag, the opposite 
of hogged. 
Chuck Peck

On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 8:55 PM Robert kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:

Off-list, I used the phrase “hogging the car by tightening the truss rods”.  A fellow questioned the word choice, and so I thought I’d ask this group whether they have seen the word used in this context?  What is the correct railroad phrase for the notion of tightening truss rods on a wood frame car so the frame is in tension and has appropriate resistance to the weight of a load?

 

Rob Kirkham 

 

Re: New resin freight car kits

steve_wintner
 

I thought the DA ones were round corners? (W post)

is "hogging" a correct word for adjusting truss rod equipped cars

Robert kirkham
 

Off-list, I used the phrase “hogging the car by tightening the truss rods”.  A fellow questioned the word choice, and so I thought I’d ask this group whether they have seen the word used in this context?  What is the correct railroad phrase for the notion of tightening truss rods on a wood frame car so the frame is in tension and has appropriate resistance to the weight of a load?

 

Rob Kirkham 

 

Re: New resin freight car kits

Tim O'Connor
 

Detail Associates - beautiful tooling. Perhaps from Terry Wegman? Both 4/5 and 5/5 ends.

On 10/21/2019 3:42 PM, killercarp via Groups.Io wrote:

Any chance 5/5 square corner 10’6” high ends might be available separately?   I have a number of potential projects that could use them.

Tim VanMersbergen
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*