Date   
Re: Looking for car colors and road numbers

Tim O'Connor
 


The Tichy flat car is nearly correct as is for

   ACL, CG, CN, FEC, GN, L&N, NC&StL, SAL, SP&S, SSW, and T&P

Champ produced an excellent decal set for the kit
HC-646


NOT - UP, SP, WP, D&RGW, AT&SF or C&NW



On 11/1/2019 11:30 PM, Bill Lugg wrote:
I'm working on a six pack of HO scale Tichy 50 ton, 40 foot flat cars and have decided to letter them for six different roads.  I model the UP in the 1950-1953 time frame so I'm thinking of using UP, SP, WP, D&RGW, AT&SF and C&NW as my road choices. My question is are there online resources that will tell me what color to pain the car and what number series would be valid for each road in this time frame?  I've done some searching on Google, but have come up dry so far.  Photos would be even better if they're out there.

Thanks
Bill Lugg

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Looking for car colors and road numbers

Eric Hansmann
 

Bill,

Check this link for the June 1993 RMJ. Some of the magazines on the original Trainlife site can be accessed.
http://original.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/148/10699/june-1993-page-5


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Lugg
Sent: Monday, November 4, 2019 11:18 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Looking for car colors and road numbers

Since I was stuck in moderator limbo for several days, I discovered a previous thread on these cars and specifically a message from Eric Hansmann compiling some very helpful prototype info from the June 1993 Rail Model Journal article about the flat cars (unfortunately, the link http://magazine.trainlife.com/rmj_1993_6/ seems to result in a database access error now). So I'm abandoning the plan stated below and selecting some from the list in the aforementioned message.


I do have a couple of questions though. Several list "Mineral Red paint" would a close match be box car red or is a different color of red called for? Are there any photos of the SP&S, T&P, DL&W, Cotton Belt and CP cars to use for lettering guides? Is there a chance anyone out there happens to have a copy of the linked article I could get a scan of for reference? It would really help in building these and I've been unsuccessful in finding any from other sources.


Thanks for the help.
Bill Lugg


On 11/1/19 9:30 PM, William Lugg wrote:
I'm working on a six pack of HO scale Tichy 50 ton, 40 foot flat cars
and have decided to letter them for six different roads. I model the
UP in the 1950-1953 time frame so I'm thinking of using UP, SP, WP,
D&RGW, AT&SF and C&NW as my road choices. My question is are there
online resources that will tell me what color to pain the car and what
number series would be valid for each road in this time frame? I've
done some searching on Google, but have come up dry so far. Photos
would be even better if they're out there.

Thanks
Bill Lugg

Re: Boxcar With Roof Hatches

Tony Thompson
 

Garth Groff wrote:

Add WP to your list. By 1940 some of their double-sheathed boxcars from series 16001-18500 were renumbered to series 26001-26125 and were assigned to bulk plaster service out of Gerlach, Nevada. 

     Garth, I thought it was the single-sheathed cars, originally  numbered 15001-16000, that were renumbered into the 26000 series and some of them given roof hatches. The 16001-18500 cars were double sheathed, were they not?

Tony Thompson



Re: Square brake staffs

Sam Reynolds
 

I checked the Micheals and Hobby Lobby websites, and they both carry Beadalon square German style artistic wire. Michaels carries 20 and 22 gauge silver plated, copper/brass core wire. Hobby Lobby carries the 20 gauge wire. Per the Beadalon website (http://www.beadalon.com/) the 20 gauge wire measures 0.032 inch and the 22 gauge wire measures 0.025 inch. I checked the Beadalon website for the line of artistic wire they produce, and their 24 gauge square wire measures 0.020 inch. A package of 10 meters of their square, 24 gauge Stainless Steel Wrapping Wire cost $7.49. They also list packages of 4 meter lengths of their square, 24 gauge German style wire in antique brass, tarnish resistant brass, and silver plated for $7.49. I'd be interested in hearing from others on the list whether the 24 gauge wire is still too big for making the square brake shafts, especially given the length of square wire that would be used.

Sam Reynolds

Re: Earlier runs often better than late runs

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

On 11 November Dennis Storzek wrote, in part:

"Aluminium is a favorite for CNC machining of cavities because it cuts easy and doesn't break small cutters. The old Front Range line was completely aluminum tooling. It is slightly harder than brass and more easily repaired by welding."

Curious. Several of Accurail's earlier cars are a close match for Front Range models.  Were these cars recut with new dies by Accurail, or is the old aluminum still holding up?

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff

Re: ERDX Reefers

Bud Rindfleisch
 

I have this photo of an ERDX 11000 series car. The lettering follows the MDT font. I have seen these cars with the circular sunburst (?) logo too. The 10000 series were of lower height but I don't have the specific data. Clover House makes dry transfers for the 10000 series.
     Bud Rindfleisch

Re: Nalco Weed Sprayer and tank cars

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Doug,

From your photo, it looks like this car originally had 5-5-5 ends, which suggest the base was a USRA boxcar. If so, easy-peasy. You have lots of choices.

FWIIW, RMC had plans for a similar car many years ago, and probably a construction article as well. I don't know which issue it appeared in, but the plans themselves and a photo are found on page 60 of ROLLING STOCK PLAN BOOK (2nd ed) edited by Hal Castens. This is a different car with wood-sheathed ends, but the details of the sprayer nozzles may be of use to you.

Some plans were pretty crude in those days, but both RMC and MR had good construction articles, largely using wood. Their articles can still yield nice models today, and are easily adaptable to styrene. Sometimes I think we have come to depend too much on kitbashing the excellent resin and state-of-the-art modern plastic models from China. The old techniques are fun, and I have enjoyed them while building the English-pattern O-scale narrow gauge cars and locomotives that are my current main interest.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff


On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 12:12 AM Doug Forbes <dforbes@...> wrote:
I am looking for help in potentially modeling this Nalco weed sprayer train that was running on the C&EI in 1959 as photographed by J. Parker Lamb.  I am looking for ideas on a good HO scale starting box car to modify into the weed sprayer as well as who might have owned the tank cars (I think Nalco owned them from other research I found) what would be good starting models for them as well.  I'm looking for any guesses or hunches or commentary you might have.  
Thanks to all!

Attachments:

Re: SP&S USRA DS Boxcar Photos

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Sean,

There is a 1961 color photo on page 64 of CLASSIC FREIGHT CARS, THE SERIES, VOL. 1 by John Henderson. In case you don't have this book, or can't find same, I will describe. The car has fairly simple lettering. To the left of the door it has SP&S and the number 10236, in sans-serif lettering with lines above and below. On the right is the SP&S oval herald, also sans-serif, which comes just short of the door stop on the left, and seems to be an equal distance from the individual grab irons which do for a ladder on the right. I'm going to say the herald's top edge is approximately 1-1.5 feet below the eves. The weight and dimensional data appear to be in the usual blocks we know and love, but the car is too far from the camera, and the print too small, to see this lettering clearly. I repainted and relettered one of my Ertl cars to this paint scheme.

What seems very odd about this car is that the journal box lids on the Andrews trucks are painted yellow. This probably denotes some restricted serviceand think this may mark a car barred from interchange because of the Andrews trucks. Often in the 1950s yellow or silver journal box lids denoted a car fitted with roller bearings. I very much doubt that is the case here.

There is not enough detail in shadows to see if the car has AB brakes, but I suspect that is so.

The car appears to be all painted FCR, and the paint has faded somewhat. The roof appears to be bare galvanized metal. I have little doubt it was also FCR at one time, but the paint has all flaked away.

Just on a hunch, I dug through my clipped articles and found two photos in the December 1987 MAINLINE MODELER article "Boxcars of the Spokane, Portland & Seattle, Railway" by Ed Austin. Yes, the extra comma is in the title. A 1937 photo shows Railroad Roman reporting marks of  "S.P.&S. 10037" with lines above and below, plus all the periods. The Railroad Roman road name stacked is "SPOKANE PORTLAND" over "& SEATTLE" in the same spot to the right of the door as the 1961 car. Not particularly useful to your original request. The second photo shows a roofless conversion to woodchip service with a two-board extension above the car side, photographed around 1950. It is only lettered "S.P.&S. 39025" in Railroad Roman with lines, and no road name at all.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff


On Sun, Nov 10, 2019 at 3:13 PM Sean Murphy <sean.p.murphy.design@...> wrote:
Does anyone have any SP&S double sheathed boxcar photos? Preferably from after 1940? I am doing a Westerfield kit build.

Re: How's Tichy doing currently, decal thickness and all?

Bill Lugg
 

Fred,
I just ordered some decals from them a couple of weeks ago - the set for their six-pack of 40-fot, 50-ton flat cars.  I found them to be clear and sharp, but unusually thick as you mention.  I was a little surprised at this characteristic as I've never ordered from them before.

By the way, you may receive this message twice as I'm replying to the list and to you directly.  I just subscribed to the list and seem to be caught in "moderator hell".  I've posted a couple of messages, but they never show up, so I assume they're awaiting approval by the moderator.  I assume this one will suffer the same fate.

HTH
Bill Lugg

On 11/10/19 8:48 AM, Fred Jansz wrote:
Hi all,
I'm in need of a few Tichy decals sets.
I hesitate becaus in the near past the printing was very thick and would hide fine details like rivets.
Just wonder if the production changed and they are useable now, since my last order ended in the waste bin.
Your advice is welcome.
thanks.
Fred Jansz

Re: Upgrading an Accurail shorty

Mont Switzer
 

Eric,

 

A Monon carman told me that when replacing individual wood running boards on freight car roofs they always painted them so they could charge more work to the car whether a home road of foreign road car.  He didn’t mention a lot of time trying to match the paint on the boards already installed.

 

The running boards on your nice model made me think of this.

 

Mont Switzer

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Hansmann
Sent: Friday, November 8, 2019 6:50 AM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io; Proto-Layouts@groups.io; PlasticFreightCarBuiilders@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Upgrading an Accurail shorty

 

A few details and decals can upgrade an Accurail 36-foot boxcar kit. It's the latest post on my DesignBuildOp blog.

 

 

 

Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

 

Re: Boxcar With Roof Hatches

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Lester,

Curious about what happened to MINX 1040? See my Groups IO photo album at https://realstmfc.groups.io/g/main/album?id=45161 .

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff


On Thu, Nov 7, 2019 at 1:51 PM Lester Breuer <rforailroad@...> wrote:
Jim Gates wrote, “3M had several.........”

Richard Hendrickson  provided additional  photos when I built this Train Miniature boxcar.  We exchanged data we had on the cars.  The primary purpose of the cars was to haul roofing granulars loaded through the roof hatches.

Lester Breuer

Attachments:

Re: Looking for car colors and road numbers

Bill Lugg
 

Since I was stuck in moderator limbo for several days, I discovered a previous thread on these cars and specifically a message from Eric Hansmann compiling some very helpful prototype info from the June 1993 Rail Model Journal article about the flat cars (unfortunately, the link http://magazine.trainlife.com/rmj_1993_6/ seems to result in a database access error now).  So I'm abandoning the plan stated below and selecting some from the list in the aforementioned message.


I do have a couple of questions though.  Several list "Mineral Red paint" would a close match be box car red or is a different color of red called for?  Are there any photos of the SP&S, T&P, DL&W, Cotton Belt and CP cars to use for lettering guides? Is there a chance anyone out there happens to have a copy of the linked article I could get a scan of for reference?  It would really help in building these and I've been unsuccessful in finding any from other sources.


Thanks for the help.
Bill Lugg

On 11/1/19 9:30 PM, William Lugg wrote:
I'm working on a six pack of HO scale Tichy 50 ton, 40 foot flat cars and have decided to letter them for six different roads.  I model the UP in the 1950-1953 time frame so I'm thinking of using UP, SP, WP, D&RGW, AT&SF and C&NW as my road choices. My question is are there online resources that will tell me what color to pain the car and what number series would be valid for each road in this time frame?  I've done some searching on Google, but have come up dry so far.  Photos would be even better if they're out there.

Thanks
Bill Lugg

Re: OMI 1930-built GATC 10,000 Gal double dome tank car

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Uh, Fred,

Since you model the early 1950s, if you want NIPX 8 and want it to be accurate, you might check some ORERs to see when this car (and this reporting mark) went out of service. NIPX does not appear in my 1958 ORER, though the car might have been sold or assigned to some other user by then.

On the subject of twin-dome tank cars, it might be interesting if someone with the research materials compiled a list of such cars. I can only offer what I've seen in published photos, plus NATX 4753 at Steamtown which I saw and photographed. Sinclair had a few 6K cars running as UNPX 100-116 (not sure if they were all twins though). Kanotex ran KOTX 8138, which had a second offset dome, a shop conversion of a single-dome car. SHPX 84 was an 8K tank whose builder's photo is often reproduced. I have seen a photo of a Magnolia AC&F high-walkway twin, though it was too fuzzy to make out the number. There was a photo of 7K GATX 29954 in a Mark Fedderson article, July 1988 MM, on kitbashing a twin from the Tichy "model". Finally, Ed Hawkins had an article in PRC 10 with a mess of ACF type 27 twins, including a complete roster from 1928-1948. 

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff


On Mon, Nov 4, 2019 at 3:46 PM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

only exact match afaik



On 11/4/2019 4:32 AM, Fred Jansz wrote:

Gents,
purchased this OMI 1930-built GATC 10,000 Gal double dome tank car recently.
However, I have no info about these cars at all regarding time span and paint schemes.
I model/collect 1950 (the year).
Any help is appreciated.
Thank you, best regards,
Fred Jansz

Attachments:


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Attachments:

Re: Private Name Freight Cars for Exchange

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

While I generally try to stick with reality, my current layout is freelanced, but set in possible reality. The Virginia Midland serves Madison, Virginia, and some of its industries are based on real business there, including a Lee Blue Bell jeans plant (long closed, and now a building supply and hardware store). 

I have several cars lettered for the VM, including some upgraded C&BT Shops 12-panel boxcars with 7' doors that had no prototype I could find. The VM's motto is "Tradition Bound", an appropriate description for many Y'all railroads.

Yours Aye,

Mungo Napier, Laird of Mallard Lodge  🦆


On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 9:43 PM Ken Soroos <kensoroos@...> wrote:
Hi Les -

I enjoyed looking at these.  Aside from your cars, I especially enjoyed seeing the Fredonia Northern car by Ken Herman(n?).  We would get together once in a while when we both lived in North Dakota.  I think I have a set of his decals around here somewhere too.

Ken

On Nov 1, 2019, at 8:04 PM, Lester Breuer <rforailroad@...> wrote:

I have finished an upgrade of a Minneapolis & Northland Railroad Company boxcar.  An Accurail boxcar built for the Central Of Minnesota to complete our exchange of freight cars.  Photos of other exchange cars and upgrade details of my M&N boxcar are included.  If you are interested, photos and writeup of the upgrade including paint match are now available on my blog I have to share photos and writeup of modeling projects on my Minneapolis & Northland Railroad Company.   If you would like to take a look please do at the following link:

http://mnrailroadcab100.blogspot.com/

Lester Breuer


Looking for car colors and road numbers

Bill Lugg
 

I'm working on a six pack of HO scale Tichy 50 ton, 40 foot flat cars and have decided to letter them for six different roads.  I model the UP in the 1950-1953 time frame so I'm thinking of using UP, SP, WP, D&RGW, AT&SF and C&NW as my road choices. My question is are there online resources that will tell me what color to pain the car and what number series would be valid for each road in this time frame?  I've done some searching on Google, but have come up dry so far.  Photos would be even better if they're out there.

Thanks
Bill Lugg

Re: Swift paint scheme

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Friends,

Some of the Delano photos taken of the CNW yard in Chicago show this sort of track, and even a few of the hand-pushed narrow guage cars.

Yours Aye,

Mungo Napier, Laird of Mallard Lodge  🦆


On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 5:52 PM Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
Gary,

It was not uncommon for RIP tracks to have these narrow gauge tracks for hand carts to haul materials.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Oct 31, 2019, at 4:45 PM, gary laakso <vasa0vasa@...> wrote:

Is that a narrow gauge, maybe 2 foot, track parallel to the car?  It sure appears to be flanges ways.
 
Gary Laakso
Northwest of Mike Brock
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve and Barb Hile
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 2:36 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Swift paint scheme
 
Wow, Bill, thanks for this documentation!  How did you ever locate this image?
 
Steve Hile
 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Kelly
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 4:06 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Swift paint scheme

This photo should help with all the speculation. It is the other side of the car apparently taken at the same time. Different lighting, different results.  The car number is 12824.
Later,
Bill Kelly
 
<image001.jpg>
 




Re: Boxcar With Roof Hatches

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Tim and Friends,

Add WP to your list. By 1940 some of their double-sheathed boxcars from series 16001-18500 were renumbered to series 26001-26125 and were assigned to bulk plaster service out of Gerlach, Nevada. The earliest references I have to the roof hatches is in the 1949 ORER, with 20 cars having four hatches, and 15 having just two, from a total of 122 cars. By 1958 the fleet was down to just 24 cars, with just two having four hatches, and one having two. I presume the rest of the class were loaded through their main doors with some sort of "grain door" arrangement to keep the plaster from leaking out. Where these cars went from Gerlach is still a mystery to me, but I would be surprised if they operated of WP rails, unless they were turned over to UP or D&RGW for unloading in the Salt Lake City area.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff


On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 10:15 PM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
Bob

A quick scan of the hard drive shows ACL, ATSF, BAR, BN, CN, CG, CP, D&H, DTI, EL, GN,
HS, LV, MILW, MONON, MP, N&W, NS, OAR, PC, PRR, RI, SAL, SCL, SOU, TH&B, UP, and WABASH
all had box cars with roof hatches.

And that's not a complete list. Tony mentioned the SP, too.

Tim



On 10/30/2019 5:51 PM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io wrote:

Boxcar With Roof Hatches

I've seen a few photos of boxcars with roof hatches for loading such commodities as aluminum dross, cement, various clays, lime and spent grain.

All of the photos I've seen are associated with shippers in the Southeast and Midwest.

Would such boxcars have served shippers in the Southwest to any degree?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Swift paint scheme

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Friends,

For what is worth to this discussion, Kodak Verichrome Safety Film, an orthochromatic film was available from 1931-1956. Kodak's panchromatic Panatomic X was introduced in 1933, and their panchromatic Super-XX was introduced in 1940 (later morphed into Tri-X). Given their dominance in the U.S. market, most of the films used in the steam era were likely to be Kodak, especially among amateur photographers.

There point of the above paragraph is that there was considerable overlap between orthochromatic and panchromatic films, so one cannot date a photo simply on whether it was shot with ortho or pan films during our period of interest.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff


On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 5:48 PM Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 02:14 PM, Douglas Harding wrote:

But I struggle with that being the explanation for the photo in question of 12624, which has very visible white lettering on the sides and ends. Nor does it explain the 1952 photo from Pittsburgh that shows what appears to be a red car with white lettering coupled to a yellow car with black lettering.

 

I agree the dark car in the 1952 photo is likely an early version of the bright red scheme, using the old style lettering and lacking the white fascia of the later cars. What it doesn't have is any indication of black lettering on the car sides, which the 12624 has. I'm still convinced that is a yellow car and the film is fooling us. I wonder when orthchromatic film was last used? I have several examples of images of cars built in the mid twenties that exhibit the color shift unique to that film. It apparently continued in use for large format industrial photography after the introduction of panchromatic film because it was prized for its fine grain and good contrast. As to availability, it's likely still available is anyone is still supplying film for photostat copy cameras.

Dennis Storzek

Re: How's Tichy doing currently, decal thickness and all?

Tim O'Connor
 

Stephen

I recall someone (perhaps at the St Louis RPM) told me that Tichy's printer uses a type of
"plastic" transfer method to create the lettering. If so, they ARE similar to vinyl letters. :-D



On 11/12/2019 11:35 PM, James SANDIFER wrote:

Tichy decals are extremely thick. There is no way I have found to blend them into a car. It is like using vinyl letters on a car. They would be fine on a 1.5” scale, but not HO.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Chasing five dollars and fifeteen cents.

Tim O'Connor
 


Jim that is awesome!! And they did it all without computers or email - or evidently
even the phone! I would never have thought a load of CORN in a reefer would be partially
unloaded in one place and then sent on to another destination. It makes me wonder what
the threshold for payment disputes was before the case went to a PUC or the ICC. =-O



On 11/12/2019 10:08 PM, np328 wrote:
    Here is another file I found concerning billing, and copies of waybills.  Presented not to make fun of accountants. However I have to wonder how much time and labor was expended here.
And of the thought that in the 1950's, five dollars was worth a lot more. 
This collection of paperwork has "detention" listed several times so it must have been a somewhat common term.  
     Also note that the reefer makes several stops here. Is there anyone who has modeled that?  
From NP files found at the Minnesota Historical Society. ( After I die, I hope some day to have my ashes spread in the NP files at the MHS and then maybe, I can get in some real research time.)
Again presented for your education or amusement.                                                                                             Jim Dick - Roseville, MN 
   

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts