Date   
Re: How's Tichy doing currently, decal thickness and all?

Tony Thompson
 

Fred Jansz wrote:

Tony: because there's a picture of such an inverted herald on a '16' in your book and I like to model from photos.

    No problem, Fred, of course it's your call. In my own case, I have more than 60 PFE reefer models, but not one reversed-stripe car nor a single aluminum car. Too rare for me.

Tony Thompson



Re: Revenue Divisions Between Railroads

Alex Huff
 

Doug,
I should have been more clear when I wrote "Chicago was another gateway".  Chicago was another gateway between the Eastern and Western Territories.  Divisions were an arcane example of the importance of the the "paper" side of railroading.  MIGN hired an experienced divisions clerk who had worked for the GTW.  Her seniority district was limited to two floors and part of a third in the GTW General Office building.  One of MIGN's lesser interchanges was at Boyne Falls, MI with the Boyne City Railway.  Originally the Boyne City, Gaylord & Alpena, it connected with both the PRR and Michigan Central (NYC).  As an originator of a considerable amount of lumber traffic, the BCG&A was able to negotiate a 50/50 split on the total Eastern Territory revenue.  That was still in place when MIGN came into existence.  Fortunately for MIGN, the Boyne City Railway was effectively out of the freight business and we only interchanged a few carloads of inbound government surplus food.  I remember a carload of frozen turkeys.
Alex Huff 

Re: Photo: Gun Barrel On Flat Cars

Bob Webber
 

Yes, 2 of the San Pedro guns were 14 inch model 1920 (RG) railway guns - a ring (not unlike a turntable) was prepared, trucks rolled away and ...instant emplacement.   But there were a half dozen Taft period batteries at Fort MacArthur.  4 were of the 14" (RG) disappearing model.  They also had mortars and smaller guns.

Note that the railway guns and the disappearing models arrived by freight trains.  The guns typically built on the East coast & proofed there, (which means some assembly required upon arrival).  San Pedro also had one of the larger cranes and facilities for battleships and lesser - which meant, just as for Mare Island, Puget Sound & San Francisco  (Hunter's Point) , there were  semi-regular shipments of tubes, barrels liners, etc.   The Oregon and most of these other areas had various ilk of weaponry that required training and replacement.  So that gun flat (or pairs of them) were seen on Sherman Hill.  This is especially true as ships were brought in to these yards in the 30s for modernization.  Barrels were frequently rotated, and, not unlike trucks on some cars, they rarely matched the carriage (serial numbers). 

That white stuff is used to forestall hurricanes & tornadoes, powder liberally sprinkled.  Note it can clump and become slippery. ..


At 07:51 AM 11/16/2019, Bruce Smith wrote:
Bob,

I don't think that the gun tube on the PRR F22 flat cars is the same as the "installed" photo. I'm away from my sources, but the latter guns at Fort McArthur were railway mounts, as is shown in your second photo, whereas the gun tube on the flats is most likely for a fixed mount. IIRC, the two railway guns for Fort McArthur were completed and shipped to the fort on their own chassis and wheels.

Regards,
Bruce Smith, temporarily in Rochester New York (Shee-eet, what is that white stuff on the ground????)

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb@...>
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2019 12:21 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Gun Barrel On Flat Cars

 

Photo: Gun Barrel On Flat Cars

Photo taken at the Los Angeles & Salt Lake Railroad Yard, Los Angeles:

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mtcPFD6LBeI/TZUQcJ50CPI/AAAAAAAAN8s/Vj20tEdXvTw/s1600/1917-03-24_FortMacArthurGun-LAYards-SaltLakeRR_01c.jpg

Caption:

1917: 14” diameter gun-tube (weighing 110,000 pounds) for the new “state-of-the-art” port fortifications at San Pedro’s Fort MacArthur (established 10/31/1914) are a “tourist attraction” at the downtown LA yards of the Salt Lake railway; when each gun arrived in San Pedro it had to be slowly and painstakingly snaked up San Pedro hill (sometimes moving only a few feet in a day) to the Upper Reservation using house mover dollies which left increasingly deep gouges in the pavement; the land for the Upper Reservation had been purchased in 1910 from William G. Kerckhoff and George H. Peck for $249,000—about $31.6 million in 2009 dollars using the nominal GDP per capita index; the four 14” gun-tubes were mounted on disappearing carriages at Batteries Osgood-Farley and Leary-Merriam (built at a cost of $462,788, or $83.4 million in 2009 dollars using the relative share of GDP index); each of the 14” guns could fire a 1,560-pound projectile 14 miles; the number 2 gun at Battery Osgood-Farley was mounted on 06/30/1917 and by the time the number 1 gun was installed on 07/31/1923 the installations were already obsolete; the big guns were rarely fired, due to the damage they caused to San Pedro homes and businesses, before they were cut up for scrap in the mid 1940s.

Installed Gun:

https://www.gettyimages.be/detail/nieuwsfoto%27s/army-personnel-standing-with-a-14-inch-railway-gun-at-ft-nieuwsfotos/50622595

Today Ft. MacArthur is home to the N scale Belmont Shore Model Railroad Club and the O scale Angels' Gate Hi-Railers club. Each club has its own building.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Bob Webber

Re: Photo: Gun Barrel On Flat Cars

Bill Daniels
 

Bruce, that white stuff is where the scenery guys hadn’t gotten to yet. Come back in the spring and it’ll be done and all green. 

Bill Daniels
Santa Rosa, California 


On Nov 16, 2019, at 5:52 AM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:


Bob,

I don't think that the gun tube on the PRR F22 flat cars is the same as the "installed" photo. I'm away from my sources, but the latter guns at Fort McArthur were railway mounts, as is shown in your second photo, whereas the gun tube on the flats is most likely for a fixed mount. IIRC, the two railway guns for Fort McArthur were completed and shipped to the fort on their own chassis and wheels.

Regards,
Bruce Smith, temporarily in Rochester New York (Shee-eet, what is that white stuff on the ground????)

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb@...>
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2019 12:21 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Gun Barrel On Flat Cars
 

Photo: Gun Barrel On Flat Cars

Photo taken at the Los Angeles & Salt Lake Railroad Yard, Los Angeles:

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mtcPFD6LBeI/TZUQcJ50CPI/AAAAAAAAN8s/Vj20tEdXvTw/s1600/1917-03-24_FortMacArthurGun-LAYards-SaltLakeRR_01c.jpg

Caption:

1917: 14” diameter gun-tube (weighing 110,000 pounds) for the new “state-of-the-art” port fortifications at San Pedro’s Fort MacArthur (established 10/31/1914) are a “tourist attraction” at the downtown LA yards of the Salt Lake railway; when each gun arrived in San Pedro it had to be slowly and painstakingly snaked up San Pedro hill (sometimes moving only a few feet in a day) to the Upper Reservation using house mover dollies which left increasingly deep gouges in the pavement; the land for the Upper Reservation had been purchased in 1910 from William G. Kerckhoff and George H. Peck for $249,000—about $31.6 million in 2009 dollars using the nominal GDP per capita index; the four 14” gun-tubes were mounted on disappearing carriages at Batteries Osgood-Farley and Leary-Merriam (built at a cost of $462,788, or $83.4 million in 2009 dollars using the relative share of GDP index); each of the 14” guns could fire a 1,560-pound projectile 14 miles; the number 2 gun at Battery Osgood-Farley was mounted on 06/30/1917 and by the time the number 1 gun was installed on 07/31/1923 the installations were already obsolete; the big guns were rarely fired, due to the damage they caused to San Pedro homes and businesses, before they were cut up for scrap in the mid 1940s.

Installed Gun:

https://www.gettyimages.be/detail/nieuwsfoto%27s/army-personnel-standing-with-a-14-inch-railway-gun-at-ft-nieuwsfotos/50622595

Today Ft. MacArthur is home to the N scale Belmont Shore Model Railroad Club and the O scale Angels' Gate Hi-Railers club. Each club has its own building.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: Photo: Gun Barrel On Flat Cars

Bruce Smith
 

Bob,

I don't think that the gun tube on the PRR F22 flat cars is the same as the "installed" photo. I'm away from my sources, but the latter guns at Fort McArthur were railway mounts, as is shown in your second photo, whereas the gun tube on the flats is most likely for a fixed mount. IIRC, the two railway guns for Fort McArthur were completed and shipped to the fort on their own chassis and wheels.

Regards,
Bruce Smith, temporarily in Rochester New York (Shee-eet, what is that white stuff on the ground????)


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb@...>
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2019 12:21 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Gun Barrel On Flat Cars
 

Photo: Gun Barrel On Flat Cars

Photo taken at the Los Angeles & Salt Lake Railroad Yard, Los Angeles:

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mtcPFD6LBeI/TZUQcJ50CPI/AAAAAAAAN8s/Vj20tEdXvTw/s1600/1917-03-24_FortMacArthurGun-LAYards-SaltLakeRR_01c.jpg

Caption:

1917: 14” diameter gun-tube (weighing 110,000 pounds) for the new “state-of-the-art” port fortifications at San Pedro’s Fort MacArthur (established 10/31/1914) are a “tourist attraction” at the downtown LA yards of the Salt Lake railway; when each gun arrived in San Pedro it had to be slowly and painstakingly snaked up San Pedro hill (sometimes moving only a few feet in a day) to the Upper Reservation using house mover dollies which left increasingly deep gouges in the pavement; the land for the Upper Reservation had been purchased in 1910 from William G. Kerckhoff and George H. Peck for $249,000—about $31.6 million in 2009 dollars using the nominal GDP per capita index; the four 14” gun-tubes were mounted on disappearing carriages at Batteries Osgood-Farley and Leary-Merriam (built at a cost of $462,788, or $83.4 million in 2009 dollars using the relative share of GDP index); each of the 14” guns could fire a 1,560-pound projectile 14 miles; the number 2 gun at Battery Osgood-Farley was mounted on 06/30/1917 and by the time the number 1 gun was installed on 07/31/1923 the installations were already obsolete; the big guns were rarely fired, due to the damage they caused to San Pedro homes and businesses, before they were cut up for scrap in the mid 1940s.

Installed Gun:

https://www.gettyimages.be/detail/nieuwsfoto%27s/army-personnel-standing-with-a-14-inch-railway-gun-at-ft-nieuwsfotos/50622595

Today Ft. MacArthur is home to the N scale Belmont Shore Model Railroad Club and the O scale Angels' Gate Hi-Railers club. Each club has its own building.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: NMRA Online Photo Archive

Bill Welch
 

So as a member Ralph, have you complained, lobbied protested. . .to the NMRA as #L2532?!

Bill Welch

Re: Illinois Central Boxcar 16172

Paul Doggett
 

Lester 

That’s a really great looking model.
Paul Doggett.  England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 


On 15 Nov 2019, at 21:35, Lester Breuer <rforailroad@...> wrote:

I have finished this year’s RPM Chicagoland Mini-kit, an ILlinois Central single sheathed boxcar I numbered 16172.  It is an Accurail boxcar to which the Mini-Kit resin cast kit replacement parts including unusual 3/5 dreadnaught ends were added.  If you are interested, photos and writeup of the build including paint match are now available on my blog I have to share photos and writeup of modeling projects on my Minneapolis & Northland Railroad Company.   If you would like to take a look please do at the following link:

http://mnrailroadcab100.blogspot.com/

Lester Breuer

Re: How's Tichy doing currently, decal thickness and all?

Fred Jansz
 

Tom: I already have a collection of the typical, now I want the a-typical, for it to stand out among the typical.
Tony: because there's a picture of such an inverted herald on a '16' in your book and I like to model from photos.
cheers,
Fred Jansz

Photo: Gun Barrel On Flat Cars

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Gun Barrel On Flat Cars

Photo taken at the Los Angeles & Salt Lake Railroad Yard, Los Angeles:

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mtcPFD6LBeI/TZUQcJ50CPI/AAAAAAAAN8s/Vj20tEdXvTw/s1600/1917-03-24_FortMacArthurGun-LAYards-SaltLakeRR_01c.jpg

Caption:

1917: 14” diameter gun-tube (weighing 110,000 pounds) for the new “state-of-the-art” port fortifications at San Pedro’s Fort MacArthur (established 10/31/1914) are a “tourist attraction” at the downtown LA yards of the Salt Lake railway; when each gun arrived in San Pedro it had to be slowly and painstakingly snaked up San Pedro hill (sometimes moving only a few feet in a day) to the Upper Reservation using house mover dollies which left increasingly deep gouges in the pavement; the land for the Upper Reservation had been purchased in 1910 from William G. Kerckhoff and George H. Peck for $249,000—about $31.6 million in 2009 dollars using the nominal GDP per capita index; the four 14” gun-tubes were mounted on disappearing carriages at Batteries Osgood-Farley and Leary-Merriam (built at a cost of $462,788, or $83.4 million in 2009 dollars using the relative share of GDP index); each of the 14” guns could fire a 1,560-pound projectile 14 miles; the number 2 gun at Battery Osgood-Farley was mounted on 06/30/1917 and by the time the number 1 gun was installed on 07/31/1923 the installations were already obsolete; the big guns were rarely fired, due to the damage they caused to San Pedro homes and businesses, before they were cut up for scrap in the mid 1940s.

Installed Gun:

https://www.gettyimages.be/detail/nieuwsfoto%27s/army-personnel-standing-with-a-14-inch-railway-gun-at-ft-nieuwsfotos/50622595

Today Ft. MacArthur is home to the N scale Belmont Shore Model Railroad Club and the O scale Angels' Gate Hi-Railers club. Each club has its own building.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: NMRA Online Photo Archive

Ralph W. Brown
 

Hi Bill.
 
I have found the NMRA archives very frustrating.  Numerous search typically produce results not even remotely related to the search parameters.  I’ve pretty much given them up.
 
Pax,
 
 
Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
 

From: Bill Welch
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2019 12:23 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] NMRA Online Photo Archive
 
If there are any NMRA members here, can you please inquire with the "powers that be" why some Reporting Marks have disappeared from the "Bob Charles Collection' on their site—SRR and SP for example? There were there at one point.

http://archive.nmra.org/Collections.aspx?c=509

Second, why do they not have the Harold "Dusty" Miller and Ernest Stefan collections available online since they own the negatives? All of these collections contain Freight Car images directly related to the era of this discussion group.

Bill Welch

Re: How's Tichy doing currently, decal thickness and all?

Bill Welch
 

Or maybe we just want to have fun. Our money, time, business, etc.

Bill Welch

NP boxcars for sale

Ted Schnepf
 

Hello,

I have some Rapido Northern Pacific boxcars for sale.  This is the double sheathed fish belly boxcar that came out a year ago and disappeared from dealers shelves.  

The cars  I am offering are new in the box, the "pre-war" version and 4 numbers each.  I have a total of 8 cars.

Contact ,e off list if interested.

Ted Schnepf
Rails Unlimited
126 Will Scarlet,
Elgin, Ill. 60120


847=697-5353

Re: Boxcar Car Stenciling Practices

Dennis Storzek
 

On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 01:27 PM, Bob Chaparro wrote:
The stencil information stating when the car was built then appears above the sill to the right of the door as "BLT" with a month and year.
One clarification: The BLT. date stencil was required from the time the car was built, not added at the first reweigh. The NEW station symbol was just a convenient way to denote that the original Lt. Wt. was established by the builder, not the railroad.

Dennis Storzek

Re: Illinois Central Boxcar 16172

Bob Chapman
 

Hi, Lester --

Nice work! And thanks for the timely roadmap.

Bob Chapman

Re: How's Tichy doing currently, decal thickness and all?

tyesac@aol.com
 

Perhaps it could be called the "Stamp Collector Syndrome", as in the desire not to collect a quantity of the typical, but a menagerie of the unusual.   

Tom Casey

red Jansz wrote:

speaking about PFE decals;
wish someone would print the 'inverted' UP herald as (accidentally) used on the R-30-16 (and maybe others).
fun to add to one of my Sunshine R-30-16's.

    Talk about rarities! These certainly did exist but since they contradicted the lettering drawing (and we know PFE did care about that), they were definitely unusual. But of course modelers love the rare and peculiar. Not always sure I understand why.

Tony Thompson




-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Thompson <tony@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Nov 15, 2019 12:36 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] How's Tichy doing currently, decal thickness and all?

Fred Jansz wrote:

speaking about PFE decals;
wish someone would print the 'inverted' UP herald as (accidentally) used on the R-30-16 (and maybe others).
fun to add to one of my Sunshine R-30-16's.

    Talk about rarities! These certainly did exist but since they contradicted the lettering drawing (and we know PFE did care about that), they were definitely unusual. But of course modelers love the rare and peculiar. Not always sure I understand why.

Tony Thompson



Seeking Photo Help Once Again

WILLIAM PARDIE
 


My upgrade endevours have taken me to a W&R SP&S 52' bulkhead flat car.  Would appreciate any help with  prototype photo or access to one.

Bill Pardie


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone



Re: Boxcar Car Stenciling Practices

Eric Hansmann
 

David Parker might be referring to the bottom part of this PDF.

http://hansmanns.org/ARA_lettering_guidelines_1920_+_1927.pdf

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dave Parker via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2019 3:35 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Boxcar Car Stenciling Practices

 

All part of the ARA (later AAR) standard (not recommended practice), effective 1 March, 1927.

The corresponding diagrams are in my 1931 CBC, and I am guessing are in many subsequent editions as well.

--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA

Illinois Central Boxcar 16172

Lester Breuer
 

I have finished this year’s RPM Chicagoland Mini-kit, an ILlinois Central single sheathed boxcar I numbered 16172.  It is an Accurail boxcar to which the Mini-Kit resin cast kit replacement parts including unusual 3/5 dreadnaught ends were added.  If you are interested, photos and writeup of the build including paint match are now available on my blog I have to share photos and writeup of modeling projects on my Minneapolis & Northland Railroad Company.   If you would like to take a look please do at the following link:

http://mnrailroadcab100.blogspot.com/

Lester Breuer

Re: Boxcar Car Stenciling Practices

Dave Parker
 

All part of the ARA (later AAR) standard (not recommended practice), effective 1 March, 1927.

The corresponding diagrams are in my 1931 CBC, and I am guessing are in many subsequent editions as well.

--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA

Lehigh Valley Composite Hoppers

Rossiter, Mark W
 

Several manufacturers offer twin bay composite hoppers decorated for the Lehigh Valley Railroad painted in a freight car red paint scheme.  According to the Anthracite Historical Society's website, the LVRR did have some twin-bay composite hoppers painted black, but there is no mention of any painted freight car red.  An internet search for photos of these cars did not turn up anything.  Did the LVRR actually have any of these cars painted FCR?  

Mark Rossiter