Date   
Re: USRA hoppers: susquehenna question

Benjamin Hom
 

Brad Andonian asked:
"I cannot locate a file of USRA hoppers with road names etc; I am looking to get confirmation that Susquehenna had these cars....    Any images and data would be appreciated.   I have located HO models on ebay, but am not sure of the accuracy of the lettering etc."

Best source on USRA freight car allocations is the Lane article in Railroad History No. 128 published in Spring 1973, summarized by Eric Hansmann on his blog here:
https://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/usra-freight-car-assignments/

Neither NYS&W nor Erie were allocated USRA twin hoppers; I'm not sure if they obtained 1920s copies or cars secondhand.  These are easy to spot in the ORER - look for HM with 30 ft 6 in inside length, 10 ft 8 in height of sides above rail, and 1880 cubic feet capacity.


Ben Hom

Re: USRA hoppers: susquehenna question

Eric Hansmann
 

The full USRA car assignments are presented as a resource page on my blog.

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/usra-freight-car-assignments/

 

These tables only note the USRA assignments, not the original allocations (which changes) or any clones and copies that railroads purchased after USRA control was relinquished.

 

Neither the NYS&W and the Erie were assigned any USRA hoppers.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brad Andonian
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2019 11:47 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] USRA hoppers: susquehenna question

 

Gentlemen,
I cannot locate a file of USRA hoppers with road names etc; I am looking to get confirmation that Susquehenna had these cars....    Any images and data would be appreciated.   I have located HO models on ebay, but am not sure of the accuracy of the lettering etc.

Thank you,

Brad

USRA hoppers: susquehenna question

Brad Andonian
 

Gentlemen,
I cannot locate a file of USRA hoppers with road names etc; I am looking to get confirmation that Susquehenna had these cars....    Any images and data would be appreciated.   I have located HO models on ebay, but am not sure of the accuracy of the lettering etc.

Thank you,

Brad

Re: SOO Line prewar 50 foot double door box car

mopacfirst
 

So the one thing I'm curious about, that I don't recall from the Soo book (mine is packed),is what prompted the center-door design?  I know this became quite a bit more common, alter the end of this list, but was it a specific need, say specific loading spot spacing, specific commodity, or this is an inherently better design because it's symmetrical?  (I threw that last one in out of thin air.)

Ron Merrick

Re: Tank Car help Identification

Thomas Birkett
 

It does look like a DOT 105, which are insulated and used for AA, anhydrous ammonia.
I have drawings of both ACF and GATX versions of this car in 11,000 gallon size . These drawings supported the building of cars in 1955 for Phillips Petroleum,  so the drawings are older than that. I  can copy and provide for detailing or scratch building. Contact me directly.
Tom Birkett, Bartlesville, OK. 


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S® 6, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "David via Groups.Io" <jaydeet2001@...>
Date: 10/14/19 9:19 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Tank Car help Identification

Looks like an insulated high-pressure tank, so ICC class 105 most likely. The Atlas or Kadee tanks are a good starting point. The logo on the side is for Smith-Douglass, a Norfolk,VA-based fertilizer company. From a 1964 New York Times article:

"Besides its fertilizer production and animal feed supplements, Smith???Douglass makes phosphoric and sulphuric acid, nitrogenous tankage, anhydrous and aqua ammonia, superphosphate and silica fluorides, potashes, nitric acid and ground gypsum rock.

Its principal business is in the tobacco, cotton, peanut and truck growing areas of the South and the corn and wheat belt of the Middle West. It also makes insecticides, pesticides, herbicides and defoliants. Total assets approximate $58 million."

David Thompson

Re: Tank Car help Identification

Thomas Birkett
 

It does look like a DOT 105, which are insulated and used for AA, anhydrous ammonia.
I have drawings of both ACF and GATX versions of this car in 11,000 gallon size . These drawings supported the building of cars in 1955 for Phillips Petroleum,  so the drawings are older than that. I  can copy and provide for detailing or scratch building. Contact me directly.
Tom Birkett, Bartlesville, OK. 


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S® 6, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "David via Groups.Io" <jaydeet2001@...>
Date: 10/14/19 9:19 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Tank Car help Identification

Looks like an insulated high-pressure tank, so ICC class 105 most likely. The Atlas or Kadee tanks are a good starting point. The logo on the side is for Smith-Douglass, a Norfolk,VA-based fertilizer company. From a 1964 New York Times article:

"Besides its fertilizer production and animal feed supplements, Smith???Douglass makes phosphoric and sulphuric acid, nitrogenous tankage, anhydrous and aqua ammonia, superphosphate and silica fluorides, potashes, nitric acid and ground gypsum rock.

Its principal business is in the tobacco, cotton, peanut and truck growing areas of the South and the corn and wheat belt of the Middle West. It also makes insecticides, pesticides, herbicides and defoliants. Total assets approximate $58 million."

David Thompson

Re: SOO Line prewar 50 foot double door box car

 

Hello Ken,

In your info about Tim's second photo, build dates are 50, 54 and 57. Did the R-3-4 ends change between 50 and 54? Do you have # of cars built for each date? # series? No changes to basic features between dates?

Thanks in advance for any info.

Soo line info deprived,
Dan Smith

Re: SOO Line prewar 50 foot double door box car

Ken Soroos
 

Hi Tim -

Your first photo of car 176494 is from one of the series that Resin Car Works is replicating.  These cars were built new for the Soo Line and Wisconsin Central by Pullman-Standard in 1940 and 1942.  They had 10’-5” inside height and 5-5 Dreadnaught ends.  See the Resin Car Works website (resincarworks.com) for a builders photo.

Pullman-Standard did build similar cars for the Wisconsin Central in 1937 and 1939, but these cars had 10’-1” inside height with 4-5 (top to bottom) Dreadnaught ends.

Your second photo of car 176682 is from the second series of cars built / assembled for the Wisconsin Central in 1950, 1954, and 1957 at the Soo’s North Fond du Lac, WI shops.  These cars had 10’-6” inside heights and R-3-4 Dreadnaught ends.

The most distinguishing feature of all of these nominally 50’ cars is their centered doors covering 12’ openings.  The cars in both of your photos have essentially their as-built configurations.

Ken Soroos

On Oct 20, 2019, at 12:41 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Resin Car Works has announced a kit for the 1939 box cars with 12'6" door openings.
I've attached a photo of what looks like the car rebuilt with new postwar ends, new
fishbelly side sills, new doors - am I correct about this? Is that what it is, a
rebuild of a prewar/wartime car?

Thanks for any facts you care to share. :-)



--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*



<soo_176494 50ft_DD_box AAR-1939 white-line-scrap ColgateWI 12-1965.jpg><soo_176682 50ft_DD_box AAR WashingtonDC 1967.jpg>

Chicago land RPM and operating session

Ted Schnepf
 

Gello,

Everyone,

The Chicago RPM starts this Thursday in Lisile.  As a Sunday add on, I am hosting an operating session from 9AM to 1PM.  No previous operating experience is necessary.  Contact me off list to reserve your spot.

This year you will notice a big change on the layout, with more structures, both scratch built and mock ups for the future.  Also the new town for Prairie du Chien has been added.

See you at the layout.

Ted Schnepf
126 Will Scarlet,
Elgin, Ill. 60120


847=697-5353

SOO Line prewar 50 foot double door box car

Tim O'Connor
 

Resin Car Works has announced a kit for the 1939 box cars with 12'6" door openings.
I've attached a photo of what looks like the car rebuilt with new postwar ends, new
fishbelly side sills, new doors - am I correct about this? Is that what it is, a
rebuild of a prewar/wartime car?

Thanks for any facts you care to share. :-)



--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

Hathi Trust Downloads, was Re: [RealSTMFC] Suggestions For Wire Load Ties

John Barry
 

Nearly everyone on this list is eligible, no association with an academic institution required if they obtain a reader identification card from the Library of Congress.  The process is found at their website Reader Registration and Access to Library of Congress Reading Rooms (Research and Reference Services, Library of Congress) 


If you are 16 or older and have ID, you can get a card valid for two years.  You can use your LOC reader ID to log into Hathi Trust and download the full PDFs.  I've had a LOC card for over twenty years, having obtained and renewed on my many prior visits to DC.  Unfortunately for me, I didn't realize I had the key to the candy store till a couple years after I moved here in 2014.  


John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736


On Wednesday, October 16, 2019, 11:33:12 AM EDT, Dave Parker via Groups.Io <spottab@...> wrote:


Claus:

Here is the link to the 1934 Loading Rules:

https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/102184919?type%5B%5D=all&lookfor%5B%5D=Rules%20governing%20the%20loading%20of%20commodities&ft=ft

Anybody can peruse the document on-line, but you need to belong to a member institution to download the PDF.

--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA

Re: ADHESIVE PROBLEM

Tony Thompson
 

Plexiglas is polymethyl methacrylate.
Tony Thompson 


On Oct 19, 2019, at 8:30 PM, Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...> wrote:

On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 04:32 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
ABS is NOT an acrylic material.
Errr, Tim, ABS is Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene. Here's a brief explanation from Wikipedia:

ABS is a terpolymer made by polymerizing styrene and acrylonitrile in the presence of polybutadiene. The proportions can vary from 15 to 35% acrylonitrile, 5 to 30% butadiene and 40 to 60% styrene. The result is a long chain of polybutadiene criss-crossed with shorter chains of poly(styrene-co-acrylonitrile). The nitrile groups from neighboring chains, being polar, attract each other and bind the chains together, making ABS stronger than pure polystyrene. The styrene gives the plastic a shiny, impervious surface. The polybutadiene, a rubbery substance, provides toughness even at low temperatures.

Back when I was building patterns for resin kits I wanted to build on a base solid enough to resist any warpage of the laminated patterns, so I chose 1/2" thick cast acrylic (Plexiglass) because it was readily available, easily cut with a table saw, and had a coefficient of thermal expansion similar to the styrene the pattern would be built of. Unfortunately I found it difficult to cement small bits of styrene to the acrylic with the techniques I was comfortable with, so I laminated a sheet of .020 styrene to the acrylic base to give me a stable styrene surface to build on. Tenax was my cement of choice to do the lamination, and it never failed.

I will admit that Tenax has such a high evaporation rate that it may be difficult to work with, but it will dissolve acrylic, styrene, or ABS.

Dennis Storzek

Re: ADHESIVE PROBLEM

Dennis Storzek
 

On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 04:32 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
ABS is NOT an acrylic material.
Errr, Tim, ABS is Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene. Here's a brief explanation from Wikipedia:

ABS is a terpolymer made by polymerizing styrene and acrylonitrile in the presence of polybutadiene. The proportions can vary from 15 to 35% acrylonitrile, 5 to 30% butadiene and 40 to 60% styrene. The result is a long chain of polybutadiene criss-crossed with shorter chains of poly(styrene-co-acrylonitrile). The nitrile groups from neighboring chains, being polar, attract each other and bind the chains together, making ABS stronger than pure polystyrene. The styrene gives the plastic a shiny, impervious surface. The polybutadiene, a rubbery substance, provides toughness even at low temperatures.

Back when I was building patterns for resin kits I wanted to build on a base solid enough to resist any warpage of the laminated patterns, so I chose 1/2" thick cast acrylic (Plexiglass) because it was readily available, easily cut with a table saw, and had a coefficient of thermal expansion similar to the styrene the pattern would be built of. Unfortunately I found it difficult to cement small bits of styrene to the acrylic with the techniques I was comfortable with, so I laminated a sheet of .020 styrene to the acrylic base to give me a stable styrene surface to build on. Tenax was my cement of choice to do the lamination, and it never failed.

I will admit that Tenax has such a high evaporation rate that it may be difficult to work with, but it will dissolve acrylic, styrene, or ABS.

Dennis Storzek

Lisle RPM hotel room to share

John Riddell
 

I have a room to share in the convention Sheraton  hotel 
If interested in sharing a room please reply off list.

Thanks.
John Riddell

Re: Photos: Loaded Automobile Boxcar Interior

al.kresse
 

Guy, did you change your e-mail address AGAIN?

Al Kresse

On October 18, 2019 at 10:37 PM "Guy Wilber via Groups.Io" <guycwilber=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:



Tom in Texas asked:

“When would they have quit loading cars in box cars this way?”

Tom,

The caption states these photos were taken in 1932. Within a year Evans would introduce ‘The Auto~Loader’ and NYC followed closely thereafter with their own permanently mounted racking system. Installation of these loading systems would eventually supplant the larger percentage of such methods used for tilting and decking vehicles within auto cars. The transition was rapid with 34,973 auto cars equipped with loaders by September of 1937.

Despite the totals of cars equipped, the original Evans racks (A and B) could not accommodate smaller trucks such as these GMC models, or some larger automobile models. Dual wheels and longer chassis made loading onto the racks nearly impossible. Many railroads owning auto cars did modify the racks to appease the auto industry. Evans would later (9-‘37) introduce racks with wider wheel pans and sliding frame components allowing multiple adjustments to accommodate larger automobiles and light trucks. The same early restrictions held true for The NYC design; that, and the fact that manufacturers did not like their “tire chain” tie downs is likely why the road eventually purchased Evans loaders exclusively.

It would be hard to answer your question precisely, but I would guess it would be somewhat rare to see automobiles or light trucks loaded by these methods much past the 1937-38 model years.

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada


New resin freight car kits

Eric Hansmann
 

A couple new Resin Car Works HO scale kits will be introduced at RPM Chicagoland. Details are in the latest blog post!



Eric Hansmann
RCW web guy

Re: ADHESIVE PROBLEM

Donald B. Valentine
 

    I'd have to agree Tim, I've never found a use for Tenax and after several tries over the years
with different bottles of it put it in the trash as useless/.

Cordially, Don Valentine

Re: Photos: Loaded Automobile Boxcar Interior

Tony Thompson
 

Remember that auto shipping by rail steadily shrank through the 50s, down to barely 10 percent of all shipments, until the introduction of auto racks in late 50s.
Tony Thompson 


On Oct 19, 2019, at 9:58 AM, Garth Groff <sarahsan@...> wrote:

 Tom and Guy,

Somewhere I've seen a photo taken in the 1950s of used cars being delivered to a team track for a small local auto dealer, I think on the C&O. The cars shipped were in a double-door boxcar without auto racks, or the racks were not used if present. I'm sure this was no longer done for new cars shipped by the major manufacturers, but non-rack shipping was apparently still possible.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 10/18/2019 10:37 PM, Guy Wilber via Groups.Io wrote:

Tom in Texas asked:

“When would they have quit loading cars in box cars this way?”

Tom,

The caption states these photos were taken in 1932.  Within a year Evans would introduce ‘The Auto~Loader’ and NYC followed closely thereafter with their own permanently mounted racking system.  Installation of these loading systems would eventually supplant the larger percentage of such methods used for tilting and decking vehicles within auto cars.  The transition was rapid with 34,973 auto cars equipped with loaders by September of 1937.

Despite the totals of cars equipped, the original Evans racks (A and B) could not accommodate smaller trucks such as these GMC models, or some larger automobile models.  Dual wheels and longer chassis made loading onto the racks nearly impossible.  Many railroads owning auto cars did modify the racks to appease the auto industry.  Evans would later (9-‘37) introduce racks with wider wheel pans and sliding frame components allowing multiple adjustments to accommodate larger automobiles and light trucks.   The same early restrictions held true for The NYC design; that, and the fact that manufacturers did not like their “tire chain” tie downs is likely why the road eventually purchased Evans loaders exclusively.

It would be hard to answer your question precisely, but I would guess it would be somewhat rare to see automobiles or light trucks loaded by these methods much past the 1937-38 model years.

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada





Re: Photos: Loaded Automobile Boxcar Interior

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Tom and Guy,

Somewhere I've seen a photo taken in the 1950s of used cars being delivered to a team track for a small local auto dealer, I think on the C&O. The cars shipped were in a double-door boxcar without auto racks, or the racks were not used if present. I'm sure this was no longer done for new cars shipped by the major manufacturers, but non-rack shipping was apparently still possible.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 10/18/2019 10:37 PM, Guy Wilber via Groups.Io wrote:

Tom in Texas asked:

“When would they have quit loading cars in box cars this way?”

Tom,

The caption states these photos were taken in 1932.  Within a year Evans would introduce ‘The Auto~Loader’ and NYC followed closely thereafter with their own permanently mounted racking system.  Installation of these loading systems would eventually supplant the larger percentage of such methods used for tilting and decking vehicles within auto cars.  The transition was rapid with 34,973 auto cars equipped with loaders by September of 1937.

Despite the totals of cars equipped, the original Evans racks (A and B) could not accommodate smaller trucks such as these GMC models, or some larger automobile models.  Dual wheels and longer chassis made loading onto the racks nearly impossible.  Many railroads owning auto cars did modify the racks to appease the auto industry.  Evans would later (9-‘37) introduce racks with wider wheel pans and sliding frame components allowing multiple adjustments to accommodate larger automobiles and light trucks.   The same early restrictions held true for The NYC design; that, and the fact that manufacturers did not like their “tire chain” tie downs is likely why the road eventually purchased Evans loaders exclusively.

It would be hard to answer your question precisely, but I would guess it would be somewhat rare to see automobiles or light trucks loaded by these methods much past the 1937-38 model years.

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada





Re: Precision Scale retainer valve

Fred Jansz
 

Thanks all for good advise.
best regards,
Fred Jansz