Date   
Re: M&StL 30000 series gondola kit under development

 

Re: Tank Car help Identification

D. Scott Chatfield
 

From the ends of the tank body and the end sills I believe this is a UTLX pressure tank, a late model X-5 built in the early '50s.  Similar to the ACF cars Atlas and Kadee but with detail differences.  Closer to the Kadee because it should have Apex running boards.

As delivered the paint job was grey.  The car shot on the South Shore in 1970 appears to be a repaint.


Scott Chatfield

Re: Suggestions For Wire Load Ties

Nelson Moyer
 

I haven’t actually done wire tie-downs, just the 1/64 in. chart tape and chain on log loads. I’m getting four FM-11 flat cars from Jerry Hamsmith in Lisle, and I’ll need loads for them, so I’ll let you know how I did the wire after I do it. A jig sounds like it could work, just put two applicator sticks in a vise the same distance apart as opposite stake pockets, make a loop of wire and twist it by using a short piece of toothpick inserted at the center of the wire loop, which is basically what the prototype does. Magnet wire will hold its shape when twisted, so I would make the twisted loop a little shorter than the stake pocket space to be sure to have tension when installed.

 

I hadn’t thought about steel strap dates, but I assumed it was in use in the 1950s. Maybe I need to look at some photos taken in that decade. I probably won’t worry about clamps. I don’t build contest models any more.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jim Betz
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2019 6:04 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Suggestions For Wire Load Ties

 

Nelson/any one,

  The magnet wire certainly allows you to get scale size (close enough).

  Since it is not the correct color what methods have you used - successfully - to
change the color?  I'm thinking either an acrylic paint (wash?) or something
like Blacken-It.
  How did you twist it to get uniform twisting?  The tie downs were actually
different sizes of steel cable and that was produced in the factory.  I'm guessing
you can build a twisting jig that is similar to what they use at the factory to
produce evenly twisted cable ...

            https://atlantic-cable.com/Article/WireRope/nmachine.jpg

  What would you use to do the cable clamps of the style that can be seen here

           https://www.homedepot.com/p/Prime-Line-3-8-in-Galvanized-Cable-Clamp-2-Pack-GD-12253/205894139

I do not remember ever seeing parts like this in HO.

  One thing - I suspect that flat "cable" (banding) was not -commonly- used in the STMFC era.
I remember using steel banding to tie up pallets of cases of salmon in the early 60's but I
don't remember seeing anything other than cable for heavy loads.  Wrong about the dates?

                                                                                                         - Jim in Burlington 

  At least one option for clamps is to simply not try to do them ... ?

 


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Re: M&StL 30000 series gondola kit under development

Dennis Storzek
 

Thanks Tim, I don't have a pic I can post. It does appear to be the same design car, the spotting feature being the little pressed flange on the bottom edge of the stub side sills. There is a builders photo in the SLH&TS freightcars book, the car posed with the drop doors open, and it is evident that the doors are Dreadnaught pressings. The car also has what appears to be either Superior or Equipco hand brake. Tim's posted image is of a sixties/seventies era repaint; The original lettering is similar in arrangement, but a Roman typeface, with lines above and below the reporting marks. There were two number series; 8001-8199 (odd), and WC cars 67001-67199 (odd).

Question, do the Minni cars have improved Dreadnaught ends? They seem to have been built one to two years before the Soo cars. Likewise the Dreadnaught drop doors?

Dennis Storzek

Re: M&StL 30000 series gondola kit under development

Tim O'Connor
 


bingo!


On 10/15/2019 6:34 PM, Dennis Storzek wrote:
On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 01:15 PM, Joseph wrote:
Don’t think so as the M&StL car is welded
I'm going to have to check pix of Soo Line cars; they built some all weld nominal 40 footers in their own shops in '48 or '49 that had the angled bottom of the side sheets.

Dennis Storzek

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Suggestions For Wire Load Ties

spsalso
 

I believe magnet wire always comes with insulation (otherwise it won't make a magnet).  If you use it, you'll be coloring the insulation.  Perhaps that same permanent marker I mentioned?  It comes in colors besides black.  I'm using dark umber.


Ed

Edward Sutorik

Re: Suggestions For Wire Load Ties

Jim Betz
 

Nelson/any one,

  The magnet wire certainly allows you to get scale size (close enough).

  Since it is not the correct color what methods have you used - successfully - to
change the color?  I'm thinking either an acrylic paint (wash?) or something
like Blacken-It.
  How did you twist it to get uniform twisting?  The tie downs were actually
different sizes of steel cable and that was produced in the factory.  I'm guessing
you can build a twisting jig that is similar to what they use at the factory to
produce evenly twisted cable ...

            https://atlantic-cable.com/Article/WireRope/nmachine.jpg

  What would you use to do the cable clamps of the style that can be seen here

           https://www.homedepot.com/p/Prime-Line-3-8-in-Galvanized-Cable-Clamp-2-Pack-GD-12253/205894139

I do not remember ever seeing parts like this in HO.

  One thing - I suspect that flat "cable" (banding) was not -commonly- used in the STMFC era.
I remember using steel banding to tie up pallets of cases of salmon in the early 60's but I
don't remember seeing anything other than cable for heavy loads.  Wrong about the dates?

                                                                                                         - Jim in Burlington 

  At least one option for clamps is to simply not try to do them ... ?

Re: M&StL 30000 series gondola kit under development

Dennis Storzek
 

On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 01:15 PM, Joseph wrote:
Don’t think so as the M&StL car is welded
I'm going to have to check pix of Soo Line cars; they built some all weld nominal 40 footers in their own shops in '48 or '49 that had the angled bottom of the side sheets.

Dennis Storzek

Re: M&StL 30000 series gondola kit under development

Douglas Harding
 

Didn’t the DRGW have similar 41’ cars?

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2019 3:15 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] M&StL 30000 series gondola kit under development

 

Don’t think so as the M&StL car is welded

Joe Binish

 

On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 3:02 PM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Was this style of GS gondola also built for other owners? It looks very familiar.

Great Northern perhaps?

Tim O'Connor




On 10/15/2019 12:13 AM, Dan Smith wrote:

Doug  Harding wrote:

One unique feature was the use of a Superior hand brake.

The hand brake of choice for the M&StL

Dan Smith


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Northern Pacific Hopper 70168 upgrade

Lester Breuer
 

I have finished upgrade of Northern Pacific hopper 70168.  A Train-Miniature hopper with offset side side gussets corrected to seven from nine and Archer rivets applied to get correct rivet patterns.   Other upgrade items include wire grab irons, brake gear after opening molded “B” end between braces, adding “B” end brake details as piping, train line, other under body details, and making decals for end numbers.  If you are interested, photos and writeup of the upgrade including paint match are now available on my blog I have to share photos and writeup of modeling projects on my Minneapolis & Northland Railroad Company.   If you would like to take a look please do at the following link:

http://mnrailroadcab100.blogspot.com/

Lester Breuer

Re: Suggestions For Wire Load Ties

spsalso
 

Oh, yes.  The dimensions I gave were for the small stuff:  "Fine".  There's also a "Heavy".  May be thicker, certainly wider.--didn't get any.  THAT one might be better for banding.


Ed

Edward Sutorik

Re: Suggestions For Wire Load Ties

spsalso
 

E Z Line is flat, not round.  I measure it at .002" thick and .005" wide.  If it's twisted (and it's hard not to twist it), that shows.  It just might be a good thing for banding steel, though.  It's 3/8" wide, in HO.  Seems kinda narrow.

Also, the "rust" color fades to a clear green with a few hours of sunlight.  It seems to take permanent marker well, though, as a repair.

I am in the middle of using it to make a barbed wire fence about 5' long.  It's probably the only thing to use if you're trying to recreate a fence in good order, where the lines are still taut.  For my fence, I SUSPECT the twist in the E Z Line will not be noticeable unless you know to look.  I do, and I can see it.

Ed

Edward Sutorik

Re: Suggestions For Wire Load Ties

x702samc
 

 

 

An old modelers trick (I’m sure many of you must know) is to melt and stretch a “styrene” sprue.

 

Use a piece of sprue a couple of inches long or more, hold the center over an open flame until one end droops then pull both ends stretching the melted center. You can regulate the thickness of the strand buy how fast and far you pull the ends apart.

During the stretching you also can wrap it around a small bundle of pipe or logs or such. I wrap it around various sizes of tubes several times to represent coiled wire and if your careful wrap it slowly around a small tube to make coil springs.

Once you’ve tried and tested this you can make many different things.

 

 

 

 

 

Sam Clarke

R&D / Tech Advisor / Artist

Kadee Quality Products Co.

mail@...

541-826-3883

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Re: Suggestions For Wire Load Ties

Lester Breuer
 

Small piano or phosphor bronze wire as I used on this load is one way.
Lester Breuer

Re: M&StL 30000 series gondola kit under development

Joseph
 

Don’t think so as the M&StL car is welded
Joe Binish

On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 3:02 PM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Was this style of GS gondola also built for other owners? It looks very familiar.

Great Northern perhaps?

Tim O'Connor




On 10/15/2019 12:13 AM, Dan Smith wrote:

Doug  Harding wrote:

One unique feature was the use of a Superior hand brake.

The hand brake of choice for the M&StL

Dan Smith

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: M&StL 30000 series gondola kit under development

Tim O'Connor
 


Was this style of GS gondola also built for other owners? It looks very familiar.

Great Northern perhaps?

Tim O'Connor




On 10/15/2019 12:13 AM, Dan Smith wrote:
Doug  Harding wrote:

One unique feature was the use of a Superior hand brake.

The hand brake of choice for the M&StL

Dan Smith

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Suggestions For Wire Load Ties

Nelson Moyer
 

Here’s a link for magnet wire in many gauges down to 44 AWG. Convert AWG to your scale inches and you can get close to prototype dimensions for whatever application you need.

 

https://www.remingtonindustries.com/magnet-wire/?sort=bestselling&page=1

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jack Mullen
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2019 2:42 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Suggestions For Wire Load Ties

 

On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 09:28 AM, Dave Parker wrote:

I think the answer depends on what diameter wire you are trying to simulate (presumably in HO scale?).

Late steam era AAR loading requirements specify two strands of #7 wire, 3 strands of #8,  4 of #9, or 6 of #11, twisted taut. #7 ASW ga. is .177" dia, or .002" in HO.
40 AWG magnet wire, .0032" dia,  is the smallest I see in a quick search online. A 2 oz. spool for less than $10 plus shipping will give you over 4000', enough for everyone at the Chicago RPM to do a few cars. ;^)   As mentioned earlier, monofilament is available in similarly small diameters, but I don't see how you'd be able to twist the strands together. 
Jack Mullen

 


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Re: Suggestions For Wire Load Ties

Jack Mullen
 

On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 09:28 AM, Dave Parker wrote:
I think the answer depends on what diameter wire you are trying to simulate (presumably in HO scale?).
Late steam era AAR loading requirements specify two strands of #7 wire, 3 strands of #8,  4 of #9, or 6 of #11, twisted taut. #7 ASW ga. is .177" dia, or .002" in HO.
40 AWG magnet wire, .0032" dia,  is the smallest I see in a quick search online. A 2 oz. spool for less than $10 plus shipping will give you over 4000', enough for everyone at the Chicago RPM to do a few cars. ;^)   As mentioned earlier, monofilament is available in similarly small diameters, but I don't see how you'd be able to twist the strands together. 
Jack Mullen

Re: My railroad materials

Jake Schaible
 

I know it's been a few weeks since Jared asked "Any other suggestions I should consider?".  But given the massive processing backlong at CSRM and the issues they have with space, wanted to add another idea to the mix.

For the right material, I would encourage folks to consider the little know "Pacific Southwest Railway Museum" (PSRM, Campo CA) Southwest Railway Library".  Founded on several sizable collections of documents from the SD&A, SP & AT&SF - and recently greatly expanded via a major gift of railroad materials from the San Diego History Center along with a major facilities expansion and grants for climate control, the PSRM archives now has the space and our doors are open for accepting sizable collections of original railroad documents.  

By the way, for those who have not seen our collection and trains, consider your self invited on Nov 16th, when we will be holding a rail fest to celebrate the 100 yr anniversary of the SD&A's own golden spike.  https://www.psrm.org/centennial/

 

 

Re: Suggestions For Wire Load Ties

Nelson Moyer
 

I use black 1/64 in. chart tape for the steel straps. For wire, I use 32 AWG or 42 AWG magnet wire.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Allen Montgomery via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2019 10:56 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Suggestions For Wire Load Ties

 

I would use leftover thread from a Jaeger lumber load. Or you could use Pele's electrician tape idea. Never had luck with that myself.

 

Allen Montgomery

 

 

 

On Tuesday, October 15, 2019, 8:48:31 AM MST, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:

 

 

I'm modeling several open car loads in HO scale.

The prototype examples I'm following show that wire is used above the load to tie the top of the stakes that secure the load from lateral movement.

Does anyone have a suggestion as to how to simulate the wires?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA