Date   

Re: Train-Master vs. Train-Miniature

Tony Thompson
 

Richard Balewrote:

Globe was originated by Hal Prendergast and purchased by Athearn

       This conflicts with what was in Model Railroader in the late 1940s. It stated that Globe was founded in 1942 by Frank Taylor, who had been editor of MR, joined by well-known O scale modeler and scratch builder Carl Traub. The company began in Milwaukee, located at 4224 Lincoln, before moving to Chicago about 1950. Athearn bought them in July 1951.
        I know of no connection with Hal Prendergast, unless he facilitated the Athearn purchase.

Tony Thompson




Re: Picture help?

Steve and Barb Hile
 

Hi Doug,

 

From Eric Neubauer’s early Pullman builder’s document, I see that OWC&I 2000-2199 were built by Pullman under lot C1466 in 1887, probably 33 feet long.

 

It also appears that the Ohio and Western Coal and Iron was one of those Gilded Age companies that lived and died fairly quickly based on financial shenanigans.  I see mention of the Columbus Hocking Valley and Toledo in some of the articles and they may have been the inheritors of OWC&I 2000-2199.

 

Hope this is helpful.

 

Regards,

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 11:24 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Picture help?

 

This morning I was asked if I had a photo or any information on the gon to the right in this photo. It appears to be lettered for the Ohio & Western Coal & Iron Co. Which was a company registered in New York state, and which failed in 1899 after some lawsuits.

 

Can anyone help?

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

 


EJ&E 61216 12-panel riveted 40' box car

Andy Carlson
 


Steve, what a cleaver idea to easily combat the visual geometry problems of an 8' door on a 6' door car body. Makes me think "Why didn't I think of that"!
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA



Since you brought it up. 61216 after repaint to green with the map scheme. Photos seem to indicate the lower side sill extension was applied when built; note that 61206 above has NEW for reweigh. Open door? Yes, I cheated. The open door hides the lack of body work to make the door opening on the Intermountain shell actually 8 ft. Jerry Glow decals, but I don't see them on Tichy now.
--
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL

_._,_._,_


Picture help?

Douglas Harding
 

This morning I was asked if I had a photo or any information on the gon to the right in this photo. It appears to be lettered for the Ohio & Western Coal & Iron Co. Which was a company registered in New York state, and which failed in 1899 after some lawsuits.

 

Can anyone help?

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

 


Re: EJ&E 61026 12-panel riveted 40' box car

pennsylvania1954
 

Since you brought it up. 61216 after repaint to green with the map scheme. Photos seem to indicate the lower side sill extension was applied when built; note that 61206 above has NEW for reweigh. Open door? Yes, I cheated. The open door hides the lack of body work to make the door opening on the Intermountain shell actually 8 ft. Jerry Glow decals, but I don't see them on Tichy now.
--
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL


Re: TIDX 1648 GATC tank car

Tony Thompson
 

Nope, not Associated but the midwestern subsidiary. They used TIDX for years. See my blog post on Tidewater Associated.
Tony Thompson 


On Jun 29, 2020, at 5:28 PM, Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:


With a reweigh of 5-59 this barely fits in our era of preference. My notes has this as a Tidewater tank car, if so I suppose it would be a west coast Associated Oil Co. Flying A portion of the merger. A break from the more common black tank cars. My friend, Brent MacGregor, has the original Kodachrome and would be happy to provide high quality digital prints for this car and thousands of others.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

<TIDX1648 Tidewater.jpg>


<TIDX1648 Tidewater.jpg>


Re: Train-Master vs. Train-Miniature

Schuyler Larrabee
 

“Champion was never in SoCal: Champion was never in SoCal”

I am not sure that is entirely true.  It’s my understanding (though I have no documentation) that Champion was begun by Max Gray, who was interested in providing accurate decals for the models he imported.  At some point, Richard Meyer bought that part of Max’s business and set it up as a separate company.  MG was in Southern California, and I believe that Mr. Meyer was also at the time he bought the decal business, and then he later moved to Minot, ND.

 

I said no documentation, but Google presents this:

 

Which leads you to this:

http://www.minot.com/champ/#:~:text=This%20hobby%20is%20truly%20a,you%20all%20the%20very%20best.

 

That doesn’t prove that Champ was originally in SoCal, but that’s been my impression for quite some time.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Bale via groups.io
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 3:55 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Train-Master vs. Train-Miniature

 

Bob...

There's lots of good information on your chart. Thanks for publishing it. Here is some additional notes to fill-in a few of your boxes:

 

Athearn was purchased by the Geddes Family, than by Horizon Hobby

Bowser was founded by William “Bill” Bowser

Champion was never in SoCal

Globe was originated by Hal Prendergast and purchased by Athearn

The founders of Kadee were Keith and Dale Edwards

Lindsay was subsequently purchased by Kemtron

Model Die Casting was established by Charles Voelckel and Clarence Menteer. It was eventually acquired by Horizon Hobby

Silver Streak was originated by Hal Prendergast, purchased by Athearn, than sold to Mr. Menzies of G&G Hobby Supply, San Dimas.

Ulrich was subsequently purchased by Walthers

Weston Mini-Figures was purchased by Campbell Scale Models

 

In a message dated 6/25/2020 4:29:22 PM Pacific Standard Time, chiefbobbb@... writes:

 

1950s Southern California Model RR Manufacturers

I've had discussions with several people who are/were model railroad manufacturers and asked them about their fellow model railroad manufacturers who were in Southern California in the 1950s. This was golden age locally with many firms located in the area.

I learned in those days long past the manufacturers were somewhat of a fraternity who frequently met socially (usually monthly) to discuss the hobby and product plans.

Sometimes they traded product lines that were either in development or on the market.  

I started to compile a list of Southern California manufacturers from the decade of the 1950s. The current list is below. It is based on advertisements placed in Model Railroader in the 1950 through 1959 January issues plus interviews with folks who were still alive to confirm details.

One point I will mention is how to pronounce the name "Suydam". I learned from the son of one of the company founders that it is pronounced "So Damn", as in "It is so damn hot outside".

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

++++

1950s Southern California Model RR Manufacturers

 

Company

Primary Products

City

Original Owner(s)

Subsequent Owner(s)

 

 

 

 

 

A.C.I.

Locomotive

Long Beach

 

 

Ace Products

Roadbed

Pasadena

 

 

Art Fleming Models

Grab Irons, Car Kits

Studio City

 

 

Athearn

O & HO Models

Los Angeles

Irvin R. Athearn

 

Ayres Models

Structures

Garden Grove

Thomas Ayres

 

Baumgarten

Track Cleaner

Santa Barbara

 

 

Beemax Plastics

Structures

Los Angeles

 

 

Bert Welch Co.

Trees & Bushes

Los Angeles

 

 

Bill Johnson Model Trains

O Scale Passenger Cars

Long Beach

 

 

Binkley Models

HO, HOn3 Kits

Inglewood

 

 

Blue Line Products

Passenger Cars

Spring Valley

 

 

Bowser

Steam Loco & Parts

Redlands

 

Lewis English (1961)

Boxcar Ken

Rail

Los Angeles

 

 

Budd Model Co.

Steam Loco Parts

Sherman Oaks

 

 

C. J. Ulrich

Track Cleaner, Signals

North Hollywood

Charles J. Ulrich

 

Central Valley

Trucks, Car Kits

North Hollywood

George Hook

Jack Parker, Jeff Parker

Champion Model Co.

Decals

North Hollywood

 

 

Cliff Line

Caboose Kit

North Hollywood

 

 

Devore

O & HO Couplers

South Pasadena

 

 

Don Fowler Co.

Semaphore, Crossing Gate, Wig-Wag

Los Angeles

 

 

E. Suydam & Co.

Structures

Pasadena, Duarte

Edward C. Suydam, Douglas R. Suydam

 

Electronic Sales Co.

Power Supplies, Motors, Controls

Los Angeles

 

 

G. L. Electronics

Power Supplies, Motors, Controls

Los Angeles

 

 

Globe

 

 

 

 

Hi-Ballers Corp.

Link & Pin Couplers, Car Kits

Burbank

 

 

Joseph B. Maier

Live Steam Loco Plans

Pacoima

 

 

Kadee

Couplers

Reseda

Dale Edwards

 

Kurtz-Kraft Models Co.

Signals,Switch Machines, Car Kits, Parts

Long Beach, Tarzana

Albert Kurtz, Jr.

 

KWR, Inc.

Locomotives

Los Angeles

 

 

Lindsay Products, Inc.

Locomotives, Motors, Spiker

Culver City

Robert Lindsay

 

Little Engines

Live Steam Loco & Parts

Lomita

 

 

Mod-Ac Mfg. Co.

Hansom Cab

Los Angeles

 

 

Model Builder's Supply Co.

Hot Metal Car, Water Tank

Duarte

 

 

Model Die Casting

Couplers, Handcars, Paint

Los Angeles

Clarence Mentier

 

Model Engineering Works

O & HO Parts, Kits

Monrovia

Richard Wheeler

 

Model Toy Mfg. Co.

Structures

Burbank

 

 

Modelcraft Printing Services

Doors, Windows

Pasadena

 

 

Models & Miniatures Specialties

Scenery Supplies

San Dimas

 

 

Modelton

Structures, Billboard Posters

Burbank

 

 

Moyes J. Murphy

Power Supplies

Arcadia

 

 

Olson-Spencer

Builders Plates

Los Angeles

 

 

Pacific Design & Development Co.

Motors

El Segundo

 

 

Pactra Chemical Co.

Paint

Los Angeles

 

 

Revell

Train Sets

Hollywood

Lewis H. Glaser

 

Robico

O & HO Locomotive, Cars

Universal City

 

 

Rollins House Miniatures

Detail Parts

Covina, Cucamonga

 

 

Silver Streak Corp.

Car Kits

Los Angeles

 

 

Standard Wire & Cable

Power Supplies, Motors, Controls

Culver City

 

 

Stewart-Lundahl Co.

Paint (310M)

North Hollywood

 

Ulrich?

Town-Craft Models

O & HO Structures

Hermosa Beach

 

 

Tru-Scale

Track & Roadbed

San Dimas

August A. Kniff

Cliff Meistel

W. H. Olson

Builders Plates

Los Angeles

 

 

Wesley Mfg. Co.

Cannonball Products, Ore Cars

Van Nuys

 

 

Western Narrow Gauge Model Shop

Track Gauge

Inglewood

 

 

Zenith Model Co.

Power Supplies

Los Angeles

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Clover Custom Decals

Decals

Santa Monica

 

 

Silver Streak (Truce Scale))

Car Kits

San Dimas

 

 

K & O Models

Locomotive, Power Pack

Van Nuys

 

 

G. F. Harbin

Reostat

San Dimas

 

 

Gaylord Products

Power Supplies, Controls

Van Nuys

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wright Enterprises/MHP

 

Thousand Oaks

Dick Wright

 

 

 

1950 Champ decals in North Hollywood, 1951 Champion Decal Co. in Fresno, 1959 in San Jose

1950 Kurtz-Kraft in Burlingame, 1953 in Long Beach, 1955 in Oroville

Olson-Spencer probably same as W. H. Olson

1958 Weston Mini-Figure Co. in Healdsburg

1959 Clover Decals in  Santa Rosa

1959 Cal-Scale in Pinedale

 

 


Re: Train-Master vs. Train-Miniature

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Well, yes, it IS important.  Especially when there are remarks such as Richard Bale’s about the

 

the Tru-Scale work train including the well-executed Hart convertible gondola which were all issued under the Train-Miniature name.

 

That information is news to me, as was the information that Richard Hendrickson was initially involved in TM.  Knowing his dedication to accuracy and that he then dropped out of the group makes a lot of sense to me.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Betz
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 10:21 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Train-Master vs. Train-Miniature

 


  ... so we have degenerated into paying attention to the history of who made
what models and when - instead of what models best represent what 
prototype and how to improve them to make them more accurate or make
them operate better ... and this is important?
                                                                                                 - Jim 


D&LW 55161 riveted 12-panel box car

Andy Carlson
 

From the Gerstley collection of mostly 1958 photos. A 8' wide door 12-panel riveted box car. Taken in LA's Taylor Yard of the SP. These 12-panel 40' box cars came with Superior or Youngstown doors.

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA
Inline image


Re: Train-Master vs. Train-Miniature

Jim Betz
 


  ... so we have degenerated into paying attention to the history of who made
what models and when - instead of what models best represent what 
prototype and how to improve them to make them more accurate or make
them operate better ... and this is important?
                                                                                                 - Jim 


Re: Railroad-Owned Poultry Cars

James SANDIFER
 

Some railroads purchased poultry cars. The 1906 ORER includes the Delaware, Lackawanna & Western with 50, the Pittsburg, Cincinnati, Chicago & St. Louis with 25, and the Columbus, Sandusky & Hocking with an unstated number. The Southern had 57 in 1917 of their own design and the Pennsylvania Railroad had 13. Canadian National had two in the late 20s. Canadian Pacific had two cars in 1930, four in 1945.

 

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 11:50 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Railroad-Owned Poultry Cars

 

Railroad-Owned Poultry Cars

According to the book, Car Shop Practice, from the Board of Railway Mechanical Officials and the Railway Training Institute (published in 1925), there were 24 railroad-owned poultry cars in service in 1924.

Does anyone have a 1924 ORER that would tell us which railroads owned these poultry cars?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


TIDX 1648 GATC tank car

David
 

Not GATC, but an example of the uncommon AC&F Type 26 (the car to the right may be another one).

David Thompson


EJ&E 61026 12-panel riveted 40' box car

Andy Carlson
 

Ed Hawkins' list on the web site "Steam Era Freight Cars" lists these EJ&E cars as built in 1948, have a 7 panel 8' wide superior door (with the thin top panel only done in '48 and '49) Ajax brake gear Gypsum or apex running boards and A3 ride control trucks. In the series of 60900-61399. 500 cars in this series. Most notably to me is the lower height of only 10'0". Thin R+3/4 Improved Dreadnaught end. The lower side sill extension was applied in 1958 according to the notes. A super-cool STMFC car!

Inline image


Re: TIDX 1648 GATC tank car

Tony Thompson
 

I wrote:

Nope, not Associated but the midwestern subsidiary. They used TIDX for years. See my blog post on Tidewater Associated.

     Sorry, forgot to include the link to the blog post on the company history, including the Tidewater Midcontinent Division that used TIDX. Here it is:


Tony Thompson




Re: SP 94635 G50-15 GS Gondola Model

George Corral
 
Edited


Very nice, Bill.

George Corral
Just north of the Clearwater Car Shops


TIDX 1648 GATC tank car

Andy Carlson
 

With a reweigh of 5-59 this barely fits in our era of preference. My notes has this as a Tidewater tank car, if so I suppose it would be a west coast Associated Oil Co. Flying A portion of the merger. A break from the more common black tank cars. My friend, Brent MacGregor, has the original Kodachrome and would be happy to provide high quality digital prints for this car and thousands of others.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

Inline image


Re: Train-Master vs. Train-Miniature

Jim Gates
 

I guess that means the box for my first TM car is more of a collectors than the car.

Jim Gates

On Monday, June 29, 2020, 05:59:25 PM CDT, Richard Bale via groups.io <rhbale@...> wrote:


This should put a wrap on the tale of Train-Master vs. Train-Miniature.

Francis Edward ‘Ted; Hollow launched Slim Princess Scale Models in San Diego in the late 1950s while still in the US Navy. The product line featured HOn3 narrow gauge freight car kits. He went into the model business full-time in 1964 when he began importing brass models under the name of Balboa Scale Models.

 

In 1968 Hollow ventured into plastic models with Train-Miniature in a small plant in La Mesa on the east side of San Diego. Consultants on planning the HO product line included Richard Hendrickson, who was then teaching at San Diego State, and Alan Armitage, who designed the tooling  which, to keep cost down, used a common underframe for both reefers and boxcars, with various slides for sides and roofs - a concept that Hendrickson, driven by authenticity,  could not abide. He withdrew from the project but continued to consult for Balboa. Tom Ayres, who had been handling photography and advertising for Balboa, developed the packaging and marketing plan for Train-Miniature.

 

There was no shortage of brain power in developing the Train-Miniature line although it got off to an embarrassing start. The initial product name was Train-Master but that was almost immediately changed to Train-Miniature due to a conflict with ownership of the name. Tom Ayres took the blame for the lack of due diligence. Only a portion of the initial release got into the market in boxes labeled Train-Masters.

 

Hollow purchased the Tru-Scale line of plastic structures in October 1968. The following year, he acquired the Tru-Scale work train including the well-executed Hart convertible gondola which were all issued under the Train-Miniature name. Hollow was a very aggressive and creative marketer. In addition to the usual hobby stores, he managed to get his products into general line craft stores and some 5&10 variety stores.

 

In the late 1970s Hollow was forced to liquidate for personal reasons. Train-Miniature was purchased by Dave Rouzer of South Holland IL who marketed the line under the name Train Miniature of Illinois Ltd.  Rouzer sold the line to Walthers in 1984 which folded the line into their own selection of freight cars. Walthers reintroduced the FA-1 and FB-1 diesels with an entirely new chassis and drive system in 1997.

 

In December 1967 Ron Parkhurst of Timberline Models (Denver) purchased the Slim Princess line of HOn3 car kits. The purchase did not include the lost wax brass detail parts. 

Dick Bale


Re: Covered Hoppers

Rob & Bev Manley
 

Yarmouth, yes yes yes.


Rob Manley
"Better modeling through personal embarrassment"


On Monday, June 29, 2020, 05:55:09 PM CDT, Rob & Bev Manley <robev1630@...> wrote:


Eric,
Sorry. Yes that's correct, RCW. They sit next to each other at Lisle. Excellent product. I have to grow up and get some for the IM cars I have yet to buy. I still like the Bowsers until I turn the end supports into Swiss Cheese.

Rob Manley
"Better modeling through personal embarrassment"


On Monday, June 29, 2020, 04:22:53 PM CDT, Michael Gross <actormichaelgross@...> wrote:


Dear Rob,

You reference the Resin Car Works covered hopper roof hardware, but I can't find such an item.  Are you confusing it with the Yarmouth model works kit  #YMW-103?

Michael Gross
Pasadena, CA


Re: a few more images...

Donald B. Valentine
 

 

 

a few more images...
From: Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2020 12:19:56 PDT

Hi List Members,

 

Here are a few more images...

 

 

 

Quite a bit of misinformation about this car and its sisters, Claus, though it is from the source not ypu.

Most notable is the fact that none of these cars were ever refrigerated. They were super insulated, if you

will, to the point where milk cooled to 39F before being piped into the car rarely increased by more than a

degree in nearly two days as General American proved with some of their first such cars constructed in the

mid-1920’s. I’m not aware of any surviving Borden “butterdish” style milk cars but there are a few of the

6,000 gal. General American - Pfaudler Corp. milk cars in railroad museums around the country. Unfortunately

there are none here in New England where the first and some of the last such cars ran.

 

My best, Don Valentine

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: Train-Master vs. Train-Miniature

Richard Bale <Rhbale@...>
 

This should put a wrap on the tale of Train-Master vs. Train-Miniature.

Francis Edward ‘Ted; Hollow launched Slim Princess Scale Models in San Diego in the late 1950s while still in the US Navy. The product line featured HOn3 narrow gauge freight car kits. He went into the model business full-time in 1964 when he began importing brass models under the name of Balboa Scale Models.

 

In 1968 Hollow ventured into plastic models with Train-Miniature in a small plant in La Mesa on the east side of San Diego. Consultants on planning the HO product line included Richard Hendrickson, who was then teaching at San Diego State, and Alan Armitage, who designed the tooling  which, to keep cost down, used a common underframe for both reefers and boxcars, with various slides for sides and roofs - a concept that Hendrickson, driven by authenticity,  could not abide. He withdrew from the project but continued to consult for Balboa. Tom Ayres, who had been handling photography and advertising for Balboa, developed the packaging and marketing plan for Train-Miniature.

 

There was no shortage of brain power in developing the Train-Miniature line although it got off to an embarrassing start. The initial product name was Train-Master but that was almost immediately changed to Train-Miniature due to a conflict with ownership of the name. Tom Ayres took the blame for the lack of due diligence. Only a portion of the initial release got into the market in boxes labeled Train-Masters.

 

Hollow purchased the Tru-Scale line of plastic structures in October 1968. The following year, he acquired the Tru-Scale work train including the well-executed Hart convertible gondola which were all issued under the Train-Miniature name. Hollow was a very aggressive and creative marketer. In addition to the usual hobby stores, he managed to get his products into general line craft stores and some 5&10 variety stores.

 

In the late 1970s Hollow was forced to liquidate for personal reasons. Train-Miniature was purchased by Dave Rouzer of South Holland IL who marketed the line under the name Train Miniature of Illinois Ltd.  Rouzer sold the line to Walthers in 1984 which folded the line into their own selection of freight cars. Walthers reintroduced the FA-1 and FB-1 diesels with an entirely new chassis and drive system in 1997.

 

In December 1967 Ron Parkhurst of Timberline Models (Denver) purchased the Slim Princess line of HOn3 car kits. The purchase did not include the lost wax brass detail parts. 

Dick Bale