Date   
Re: LCL Container Questions

spsalso
 

In answer to your first question:

"ferro-chrome" and "ferro-silicon", as mentioned in message # 166365, from two days ago.  There are likely other items, loosely grouped under "minerals".


Ed

Edward Sutorik

Re: SOMETIMES YOU JUST HAVE TO BLINK

spsalso
 

Nolan,

I don't see where "the web was cut away".  I see shadow.

The cross-section of the assembly does not appear to me to be rail based:  the base of the "rail" is too wide for its height, the head of the rail is way too shallow for its width.

I DO find interesting that the part below the car side was flame-cut, and that there are two empty holes showing.  And also that I don't find evidence of such holes in the other big-ribs.  And that there doesn't seem to be much of any cross-connection of the "hanging" part of those ribs by a cross-member under the car.

'Tis an interesting puzzle.


Ed

Edward Sutorik

Re: what to do with all those leftover freight car trucks?

Seth Lakin
 

Now the question is where was ASF’s and/or Bettendorf’s foundry where these loads originated? I’m modeling part of Pullman’s Michigan City plant and I’m trying to run down loads of parts into Pullman, and how they were routed. 

One if the loads of supplies I’ve tracked down is boxcar doors from Youngstown Steel Door. They went west on the AC&Y to Delphos, Ohio and to the NKP. From there it was to Tipton Indiana and north on NKP’s Indianapolis branch to Michigan City and interchange to the Monon for final delivery to Pullman. 

Seth Lakin
Michigan City IN

Re: what to do with all those leftover freight car trucks?

Bob Webber
 

Bettendorf s/b Iowa in Quad Cities. ASF, Chicago.

BTW, we have maps of the H&B shops along with building drawings - and the BoM can be figured from drawings (be a bit of time, but you can do it). We have some (earlier) H&B BoMs and Drawing List, but not later - although....depending on era, if it were actually *IN* the P-S era, then looking at the contract and correspondence files would reveal all of that - and perhaps the Maps (Ed may chime in there).

http://www.pullmanlibrary.org/IndexCollection.htm
http://www.pullmanlibrary.org/Research.htm

And...remember, after 1924, this was never a "Pullman Plant". The plant was then a Pullman Car and Manufacturing Corp. (The Pullman Co. was the operating subsidiary of Pullman Incorporated), then in 1934, P-S was born, in 1947, The Pullman Co. was divested from Pullman Inc. (and sold to a consortium of railroads) - in any case, after 1934 (for certain) there were *NO* "Pullman" freight cars.



At 03:53 PM 8/21/2019, Seth Lakin via Groups.Io wrote:
Now the question is where was ASF's and/or Bettendorf's foundry where these loads originated? I'm modeling part of Pullman's Michigan City plant and I'm trying to run down loads of parts into Pullman, and how they were routed.

One if the loads of supplies I've tracked down is boxcar doors from Youngstown Steel Door. They went west on the AC&Y to Delphos, Ohio and to the NKP. From there it was to Tipton Indiana and north on NKP's Indianapolis branch to Michigan City and interchange to the Monon for final delivery to Pullman.

Seth Lakin
Michigan City IN
Bob Webber

Re: MEK Substitute and current plastic cements

Paul Woods
 

When my LHS stopped stocking MEK because it was, in his words "Too expensive with all the special chemical courier fees to get it delivered", I used my chemistry knowledge left over from my engineering school days to locate a suitable replacement among the various volatile solvents at my local hardware store.  ADOS Solvent N seemed like a good place to start but it turned out to be quite 'weak' at dissolving styrene.  Next try was a lacquer thinner made by an Australian company 'Digger's', and Hooo-lyyyy smokes!  Does that stuff ever work well!  Upon consulting the materials safety data sheet, turns out it is mostly toluene (65%) with a generous dash of MEK (25%) and a bit of naphtha....so not only does it work really well but it will make you very, very ill - not regarded as strongly carcinogenic but the effects on the human nervous system will make model building very difficult (memory impairment, ataxia, tremors, to name a few....the list is long!).

I'm sure most of us are well aware of the dangers of working with chemicals, but for anyone reading this who is new to the game, be safe and use with plenty of ventilation; our aim should be to live long enough to enjoy actually running our models.

Regards
Paul W.

Whangarei, NZ

p.s. I went back to my LHS owner and told him how effective lacquer thinner is as a styrene cement - this was two years ago, and he hasn't done anything with that knowledge despite lots of modelers complaining about not being able to buy liquid cement.  I just don't get it, because this is one of the few hobby shops I have encountered in NZ that makes an effort to stock the full Evergreen styrene range....however the styrene is not much use if you can't find something to glue it together with!

LCL Cement Gondola Container Article

Bob Chaparro
 

LCL Cement Gondola Container Article

Pardon my French...but most of this article, with many photos, is written in French. Enjoy the photos:

http://teamtrack.soforums.com/t74-LCL-CONTAINERS-ON-GONDOLA.htm

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA (Near Perris, CA)

Re: LCL Cement Gondola Container Article

Matthew Metoyer
 

Google (Chrome) has the option to translate, and it did it reasonably well.

Matthew Metoyer
Santa Maria CA

On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 5:20 PM Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

LCL Cement Gondola Container Article

Pardon my French...but most of this article, with many photos, is written in French. Enjoy the photos:

http://teamtrack.soforums.com/t74-LCL-CONTAINERS-ON-GONDOLA.htm

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA (Near Perris, CA)

Re: MEK Substitute and current plastic cements

Jon Miller
 

On 8/21/2019 4:12 PM, Paul Woods wrote:
Next try was a lacquer thinner made by an Australian company 'Digger's', and Hooo-lyyyy smokes!  Does that stuff ever work well!  Upon consulting the materials safety data sheet, turns out it is mostly toluene (65%) with a generous dash of MEK (25%) and a bit of naphtha....so not only does it work really well but it will make you very, very ill - not regarded as strongly carcinogenic

    What's really strange is that MEK is not as bad as any of these replacement chemicals but it's the one we can't easily get.  Stupid if you ask me but them no one did.:-D

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, 
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

Re: what to do with all those leftover freight car trucks?

David Jobe, Sr.
 

AFAIK, ASF had no foundries in Chicago only the corporate office, at least
by1973 after this list. Side frames and bolsters would have come from East
St. Louis, Illinois until it was closed in 1959, Granite City, Illinois or
Alliance, Ohio. Springs most likely came from Hammond, Indiana which also
produced some forgings. Indiana Harbor, Indiana supplied smaller castings
like couplers. There were three or four other works including Sharon,
Pennsylvania, but I don't have my references readily available. Their
foundry mark was an octagon circumscribing the letter for the works.
Octagon E, G, A, H, I, etc.

The only "machining" I recall, for certain, was grinding of various parting
lines or vent risers.

Hope That Helps,

David Jobe, Sr.
Saint Ann, Missouri

ASF - Granite City Works 1973-1976
ASF - Hammond Works 1976-1977

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf
Of Bob Webber
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 4:42 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io; main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] what to do with all those leftover freight car
trucks?

Bettendorf s/b Iowa in Quad Cities. ASF, Chicago.

BTW, we have maps of the H&B shops along with building drawings - and
the BoM can be figured from drawings (be a bit of time, but you can
do it). We have some (earlier) H&B BoMs and Drawing List, but not
later - although....depending on era, if it were actually *IN* the
P-S era, then looking at the contract and correspondence files would
reveal all of that - and perhaps the Maps (Ed may chime in there).

http://www.pullmanlibrary.org/IndexCollection.htm
http://www.pullmanlibrary.org/Research.htm

And...remember, after 1924, this was never a "Pullman Plant". The
plant was then a Pullman Car and Manufacturing Corp. (The Pullman Co.
was the operating subsidiary of Pullman Incorporated), then in 1934,
P-S was born, in 1947, The Pullman Co. was divested from Pullman Inc.
(and sold to a consortium of railroads) - in any case, after 1934
(for certain) there were *NO* "Pullman" freight cars.



At 03:53 PM 8/21/2019, Seth Lakin via Groups.Io wrote:
Now the question is where was ASF's and/or Bettendorf's foundry
where these loads originated? I'm modeling part of Pullman's
Michigan City plant and I'm trying to run down loads of parts into
Pullman, and how they were routed.

One if the loads of supplies I've tracked down is boxcar doors from
Youngstown Steel Door. They went west on the AC&Y to Delphos, Ohio
and to the NKP. From there it was to Tipton Indiana and north on
NKP's Indianapolis branch to Michigan City and interchange to the
Monon for final delivery to Pullman.

Seth Lakin
Michigan City IN
Bob Webber

Re: MEK Substitute and current plastic cements

Paul Woods
 

You are quite correct, Jon - neither Toluene nor MEK are regarded as being carcinogenic (except in California, where apparently EVERYTHING is) and the effects on the nervous system are reversible to a certain extent, unless exposure is very high & prolonged.  I think the quantities that we use building a typical model are of no concern at all if we are exercising common sense with respect to ventilation.

Regards
Paul W.

Whangarei, NZ
NYCSHS #7172

Re: what to do with all those leftover freight car trucks?

Rick Jesionowski
 

Question, how were the doors shipped from YSD , on flatcars? gon? boxcar? it would make an interesting load if in an open top car.

Rick Jesionowski

Re: what to do with all those leftover freight car trucks?

Matt Smith
 

Here are the YSD in gondola, I'm sorry I don't recall the source of the photo.
--
Matt Smith
Bloomington, IL

Re: MEK Substitute and current plastic cements

Matt Smith
 

I was at my local Home Depot in Bloomington, IL and they had all the MEK on clearance and had MEK substitute fully stocked.  I bought 3 quarts at $6 a piece, should last me til retirement. MEK may not be "banned" but it does appear it is on its way out. Keep your eyes out if it goes on clearance!
--
Matt Smith
Bloomington, IL

Re: what to do with all those leftover freight car trucks?

al.kresse
 

Do we have the source of this image to get a better copy?


Al Kresse

On August 22, 2019 at 10:04 AM Matt Smith <flyn96@...> wrote:

Here are the YSD in gondola, I'm sorry I don't recall the source of the photo.
--
Matt Smith
Bloomington, IL

Re: what to do with all those leftover freight car trucks?

Richard Wilkens
 

The only area I think that would be "machined" would be the holes for the journal box covers, but this would be more drilling.

Rich Wilkens

Re: [PassengerCarList] Pullman & A/C

Steve and Barb Hile
 

As more than an interested bystander I want to say how useful I think that
these "work in process" web pages are chock full of good information.

This is not a flashy web site, but rather a raw data glimpse at the work
that Bob and the team at the Pullman Library are doing with the mountain of
data available to us. The collection of drawings, specifications, etc. is
truly remarkable.

We are there on Wednesdays for volunteer work, but you can contact us
anytime by email inquiry. See http://www.pullmanlibrary.org/pullcon.htm

Steve Hile

-----Original Message-----
From: PassengerCarList@groups.io [mailto:PassengerCarList@groups.io] On
Behalf Of Bob Webber
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 1:57 PM
To: PassengerCarList-groups.io
Subject: [PassengerCarList] Pullman & A/C

First an update - if you go to:
http://www.pullmanlibrary.org/Research.htm
and scroll to the middle (after the outline) ; there is a new link to "am
ore complete outline" - this will be a work in progress - some companies
are missing (like BC&F).

A/C. I am in the midst of scanning the A/C Lot Drawing Lists - that we have
(that is, P-S Lots & Drawing Lists). There are 30-40 of them. Some are for
Pullman Co. cars, some are for individual railroad's cars. Those Pullman
Co. cars are cars specifically assigned specific railroads.

Through the ears, we have received a lot of (A/C - related) requests
- most of which we simply can't fulfill.

It is important to note the differences between cars modified at Pullman Co.
shops (i.e. Buffalo, Calumet, Wilmington (and railroad shops such as
Topeka)) and those modified by P-S shops (i.e. PCW,
Worcester, etc.). The differences are many, but for this note, the
main ones involve documentation. The documentation for the Pullman Co. cars
- if it exists is at the Newberry (check M.O. J.O., C.O.
registers & lists). The documentation for the P-S mods are, for the most
part, at the Pullman Library.

These drawing lists tell us a great deal - they typically give us the before
& after Plan and the changes thereto. One drawing that I tend to scan
whenever I see it is a " Equipment Changes" drawing that references the "Old
Equipment Drawing" . This new drawing has only appliances and other parts
that were moved, replaced and/or added when a given car was modified.

*NOT* usually found: Names and/or numbers! They say how many cars are from
one (old) Lot and how many from others. I usually have them, but it is
frustrating not to see them in these Lists.

And remember - these are only railroad or assigned to specific railroad cars
- completed in P-S shops. So UP diners, coaches and obs. Yes. Standard
3410, no. 3410 assigned C&O - yes. SBD deniers Yes. C&O coaches, yes.
Pullmans assigned to the LV and Erie? yes. Santa Fe assigned cars, no.
MILW cars? No.

Some other changes - from here:
http://www.pullmanlibrary.org/
the collections information has changed (and is being updated)

And...some wording must be modified - I've started to get hate mail from
both - well, all - sides of a certain political battle - seems that when the
topic on the top of the page is entered, other things are expected. reminds
me of 15-20 years ago when I started searching for certain large scale
equipment and went down many strange rabbit holes...LGB meant something
entirely different to me....

Bob Webber

Re: what to do with all those leftover freight car trucks?

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

The bronze bearings have to be seated in the journal boxes … it is unlikely that the raw castings would be suitable without some clean-up. Possibly the spring pads and bolster slots would also need some work. Was such done at the foundry, or at the RR shop?

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Aug 22, 2019, at 11:08 AM, Richard Wilkens <railsnw123@...> wrote:

The only area I think that would be "machined" would be the holes for the journal box covers, but this would be more drilling.

Rich Wilkens

Video: Forgotten Chicago

Bob Chaparro
 

Forgotten Chicago

For those of you who have Facebook (Yes, I hear your groans of disapproval) here is a short film shot from a train passing through Chicago's rail yards and industrial areas in the 1940s:

https://www.facebook.com/Charingx/videos/10155451305567465/

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: Video: Forgotten Chicago

Jon Miller
 

On 8/22/2019 9:43 AM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io wrote:
Forgotten Chicago

    Interesting in the amount of old/older cars one see's in the video.  Too bad it couldn't be slowed down or maybe it's just my old eyes.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, 
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

Re: MEK Substitute and current plastic cements

Tony Thompson
 

Paul Woods wrote:

You are quite correct, Jon - neither Toluene nor MEK are regarded as being carcinogenic (except in California, where apparently EVERYTHING is)  . . .

    Please stop these uninformed and foolish remarks. The issues with a number of solvents in California are about air pollution, not cancer per se. California's Proposition 65 does require "cancer danger" notices for a great many substances (all of which, incidentally, ARE proven carcinogens), but that's a different story.


Tony Thompson
Berkeley, CA