Date   
Re: SEEKING PHOTO HELP (Terms For Freight Car Parts)

Bob Chaparro
 

I noticed two terms for freight car parts in Mr. Trandel's presentation are in conflict with terms I usually see used on this group.

The author used "roof walk" for "running board" and "stirrup step" for "sill step".

Which terms are preferred/correct?

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: SEEKING PHOTO HELP (Terms For Freight Car Parts)

npin53
 

The term "roof walk" used to make Richard Hendrickson's eye twitch. 

Aaron Gjermundson 

Re: SEEKING PHOTO HELP (Terms For Freight Car Parts)

Pierre Oliver
 

And I'm waiting for Tony to engage in this debate

Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com
On 2019-08-24 12:22 p.m., npin53 wrote:

The term "roof walk" used to make Richard Hendrickson's eye twitch. 

Aaron Gjermundson 

Re: SEEKING PHOTO HELP (Terms For Freight Car Parts)

Bill Welch
 

My personal authority for this is the Car Builder's Cyclopedia's "Definitions" section—Sill Step and Running Board. You did not mention the use of term "Lateral" for which the mechanical term is Latitudinal.

Bill Welch

Re: Terms For Freight Car Parts

Bob Webber
 

This might launch a large discussion..but....

Before you define those terms, better define "proper" - esp. which context you wish to use it in.

Proper may mean what is proper within the group, within the hobby, by hobby manufacturers, authors, railroaders (and that's by division within railroad), by railroad correspondence, by car manufacturer..etc. etc..

Sidestep & Sill Step (and corner step) are used by Standard Steel drawings & references. With over 60,000 drawings scanned from Pullman, Pullman-Standard, Haskell & Barker, Standard Steel and others - the only mention of "stirrup" is in the use in conjunction with posts or daft gear rigging - where its function was to support (not step).

Roof walk has not been used in the drawings, running board has been.

(you can add outside braced to the topic and enjoy more opinions)

Why do I say you must define "proper".

I was discussing the term "Harriman" in conjunction with passenger cars, saying it would be better to use the term "Common Standard". One participant, who had spent many years on the C&NW took umbrage, and said he didn't know what "Common Standard" was but he sure knew a "Harriman" car when he saw it!!! "There was a Harriman car in the yards in Chicago that's now at the Illinois Railroad Museum, and everyone called in Harriman rather than Common Standard!". Looking at the car, I found the car in question was an ex-C&O arched roof combine - neither Harriman (sic) nor Common Standard - a completely different design. Yet...this was a man who had spent a lot of time on railroads, insisting the use was proper and more so than the "proper" term. Who was right?

I have heard railroaders, manufacturers and others use all the terms above. Does use in the industry indicate "proper" use? How many authors have used these terms? Many. Proper? How many reference books have used these terms? Many. What then is indicative of a "proper" use? I have my opinion on this one - colored by what I do & see now. I'm not going to say one is more proper. It depends on context and intent. People on this list have tried to instill the use of proper terms - terms used by the manufacturers of the object, and the MCB use (among others). In a sense - just as will clinics and the more scholarly papers there is a certain trust that the use of a term will be proper use. Your mileage may very.


At 10:58 AM 8/24/2019, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io wrote:

I noticed two terms for freight car parts in Mr. Trandel's presentation are in conflict with terms I usually see used on this group.

The author used "roof walk" for "running board" and "stirrup step" for "sill step".

Which terms are preferred/correct?

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA
Bob Webber

Re: SEEKING PHOTO HELP (Terms For Freight Car Parts)

Tony Thompson
 

Bob Chaparro wrote:

I noticed two terms for freight car parts in Mr. Trandel's presentation are in conflict with terms I usually see used on this group.
The author used "roof walk" for "running board" and "stirrup step" for "sill step".
Which terms are preferred/correct?

     I agree with Bill Welch, who points out that the industry did have a standard set of definitions, set forth in each issue of the Car Builders' Cyclopedia. There you will find both "sill step" and "running board." 
      It is true, ass Bob Webber mentioned, that working railroaders had all sorts of terms in daily use that appear nowhere in the Cyc definitions. The same is true of modelers, who also have terms that we all understand, but are not "industry terms." These kinds of common use are fine, and as long as we understand what is meant by, say, "roof walk," no confusion results. But I do stand with Richard Hendrickson, who urged us all to learn and use the industry's own terms in the Cyc.

Tony Thompson



Re: Terms For Freight Car Parts

mark_landgraf
 

Well on steam locomotive factory drawings the side walkways are referred to as Running Boards. In the era of boxcar with wooden roof walks, the factory drawings refer to them as Running Boards. 

Many freight manufacturers refer to the steps below the underframe line as Stirrups on their factory drawings. 

The Car Builders Dictionary defines that running board is a wooden board, applied to rolling stock, that men can walk on. The stirrup had ties the horse and saddle stirrups and was typically made of iron stock. 

Personally I don't see much resolution coming from this definitional name chasing. 

Other examples might include:
Single sheathed vs outside braced boxcars
Turnout vs switch
Bettendorf ( a manufacturer) vs a truck style (made by many mfrs )
Or what we and the rr's call the vertical side posts on gondolas

Mark Landgraf
Albany NY


On Sat, Aug 24, 2019 at 12:54 PM, Bob Webber
<rgz17@...> wrote:
This might launch a large discussion..but....

Before you define those terms, better define "proper" - esp. which
context you wish to use it in.

Proper may mean what is proper within the group, within the hobby, by
hobby manufacturers, authors, railroaders (and that's by division
within railroad), by railroad correspondence, by car manufacturer..etc. etc..

Sidestep & Sill Step (and corner step) are used by Standard Steel
drawings & references.  With over 60,000 drawings scanned from
Pullman, Pullman-Standard, Haskell & Barker, Standard Steel and
others - the only mention of "stirrup" is in the use in conjunction
with posts or daft gear rigging - where its function was to support
(not step).

Roof walk has not been used in the drawings, running board has been.

(you can add outside braced to the topic and enjoy more opinions)

Why do I say you must define "proper".

I was discussing the term "Harriman" in conjunction with passenger
cars, saying it would be better to use the term "Common
Standard".  One participant, who had spent many years on the C&NW
took umbrage, and said he didn't know what "Common Standard" was but
he sure knew a "Harriman" car when he saw it!!!  "There was a
Harriman car in the yards in Chicago that's now at the Illinois
Railroad Museum, and everyone called in Harriman rather than Common
Standard!".  Looking at the car, I found the car in question was an
ex-C&O arched roof combine - neither Harriman (sic) nor Common
Standard - a completely different design.  Yet...this was a man who
had spent a lot of time on railroads, insisting the use was proper
and more so than the "proper" term.  Who was right?

I have heard railroaders, manufacturers and others use all the terms
above.  Does use in the industry indicate "proper" use?  How many
authors have used these terms?  Many.  Proper?  How many reference
books have used these terms?  Many. What then is indicative of a
"proper" use?  I have my opinion on this one - colored by what I do
& see now.  I'm not going to say one is more proper. It depends on
context and intent. People on this list have tried to instill the use
of proper terms - terms used by the manufacturers of the object, and
the MCB use (among others).  In a sense - just as will clinics and
the more scholarly papers there is a certain trust that the use of a
term will be proper use. Your mileage may very.


At 10:58 AM 8/24/2019, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io wrote:

>I noticed two terms for freight car parts in Mr. Trandel's
>presentation are in conflict with terms I usually see used on this group.
>
>The author used "roof walk" for "running board" and "stirrup step"
>for "sill step".
>
>Which terms are preferred/correct?
>
>Bob Chaparro
>
>Hemet, CA
>

Bob Webber




Re: Terms For Freight Car Parts

Tony Thompson
 

Mark Landgraf wrote:

Many freight manufacturers refer to the steps below the underframe line as Stirrups on their factory drawings. 
The Car Builders Dictionary defines that running board is a wooden board, applied to rolling stock, that men can walk on. The stirrup had ties the horse and saddle stirrups and was typically made of iron stock. 

         Mark misstates what is in the Cyc definitions. The term "stirrup" is included, but only for things like coupler carry irons, NOT applied to steps. The defined term "sill step" does exactly match what we are talking about.

Other examples might include:
Single sheathed vs outside braced boxcars
Turnout vs switch
Bettendorf ( a manufacturer) vs a truck style (made by many mfrs )
Or what we and the rr's call the vertical side posts on gondolas

 In each case, Mark, there IS an industry term. You, of course, can ignore them all if you wish, as may anyone.

Tony Thompson



Re: SEEKING PHOTO HELP (Terms For Freight Car Parts)

Bob Webber
 

One of the more proper usages seen here.....

At 12:18 PM 8/24/2019, Tony Thompson wrote:
: It is true, ass Bob Webber

Tony Thompson
<mailto:tony@...>tony@...
Bob Webber

Re: SEEKING PHOTO HELP

np328
 

   On my PC, I do what Tim does, sort of.....

For people without Photoshop, like me...   
1. Open a blank page from Word, and once it is open, then format it to Landscape or Portrait, which ever best matches the photo. 
2. go back to the image. Find the two buttons, Alt and Print Screen , and press at same time.
3. Reopen the page and right click, the Paste option should appear so paste it, and the image of your whole screen should appear.
4. Right click again on the image, and two boxes should appear, on the upper one look for what looks like the right angle clamp as viewed from on end, if you put your cursor over it, the word Crop should appear, click on it.
5. Crop by bringing in the corners to what you want to save, and click again, this time off the cropped image, at this point the grayed areas should disappear.      
6. Click on your image again and perimeter markers should appear from which you can drag the image, opening it to the margins. 
7. And save it, of course because it is on a Word background, it will want to be saved as a word document.  File accordingly.  

Limitation is that it can't be filed as a Photo, as best as I am aware. However if it is for my personal modeling use only, no big deal.             Jim Dick - St. Paul, MN 

Re: SEEKING PHOTO HELP

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Friends,

With some sites this may be necessary, but with Safari with a Mac (and probably in other browsers as well) the easy way is just to right click on the photo. The menu that appears includes "Save to Desktop". Once there you can open the image in your preferred photo editor and work it up as you please.

I have a modest collection of these photos saved on my machine for possible modeling use. The folder is marked "Delete Upon My Demise", and my heirs will know these aren't my intellectual property.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 8/24/2019 8:56 AM, BRIAN PAUL EHNI wrote:

Macs don’t have a print screen, but the same general rules apply:

To capture the entire screen display, press CMD+SHIFT+3 together.

To capture a specific part of the screen, press CMD+SHIFT+4 together, then use the mouse to select what you want.

The screenshot JPG will appear on your desktop, and can be edited with any number of programs

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Saturday, August 24, 2019 at 7:13 AM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] SEEKING PHOTO HELP

 


every PC keyboard I've used has a "print screen" button! the screen is copied to
the "clipboard". then I open photoshop, create a new file from the clipboard, and
trim the picture to suit my need. easy peasy.

with Firefox, to steal a web site image file (not just a snapshot of the screen)
you choose TOOLS->PAGE INFO->MEDIA. then scroll through the image files (including
the "copy protected" ones the web sites lie to their customers and tell them the
files are safe) and save the ones you want to your hard drive. also easy peasy.

on Androids just click on a "volume" control button and the "power" button together
and wait for the "camera click". the screen is now saved to your files.

the rule is: if you can SEE it, then you can download it.

Tim O'Connor



On 8/24/2019 2:28 AM, Matthew Metoyer wrote:

Windows 8 (?) & 10 computers include a program called 'snipping tool'. The icon looks like a pair of scissors. It allows you to create a photo file of whatever is on your screen. 

 

Matthew Metoyer

Santa Maria CA

 

On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 10:27 PM Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:

Bill, to capture photos off of your screen requires a software called Screen Capture.

If you had a Mac, all you would have to do is click 3 buttons and hold down the mouse and drag over the image you wish to capture. I do this constantly and would hate to give up this feature. I would suggest that you search for a "Screen Capture" and download into your computer. This is also helpful for sites which don't allow the even easier "Drag & Drop", but that is another Mac item.

 

Tim O'Connor has stated for years that nothing can't be captured from a computer. Just a little harder for a windows system. Perhaps he will share the technique.

-Andy Carlson

Ojai CA

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: SEEKING PHOTO HELP

Tim O'Connor
 


Jim, I run Windows XP, and I bought my copy of Photoshop Elements 5.0 on Ebay
two years ago for $10. Brand new w/ serial number. No subscription fees. A year
ago my PC hardware died, and I got a complete replacement motherboard for $45
directly from Dell. It's basically brand new again. :-)

Tim O'





On 8/24/2019 3:38 PM, np328 wrote:
   On my PC, I do what Tim does, sort of.....

For people without Photoshop, like me...   
1. Open a blank page from Word, and once it is open, then format it to Landscape or Portrait, which ever best matches the photo. 
2. go back to the image. Find the two buttons, Alt and Print Screen , and press at same time.
3. Reopen the page and right click, the Paste option should appear so paste it, and the image of your whole screen should appear.
4. Right click again on the image, and two boxes should appear, on the upper one look for what looks like the right angle clamp as viewed from on end, if you put your cursor over it, the word Crop should appear, click on it.
5. Crop by bringing in the corners to what you want to save, and click again, this time off the cropped image, at this point the grayed areas should disappear.      
6. Click on your image again and perimeter markers should appear from which you can drag the image, opening it to the margins. 
7. And save it, of course because it is on a Word background, it will want to be saved as a word document.  File accordingly.  

Limitation is that it can't be filed as a Photo, as best as I am aware. However if it is for my personal modeling use only, no big deal.             Jim Dick - St. Paul, MN 

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: SEEKING PHOTO HELP

Tim O'Connor
 


Many web sites play the "right click disabled" gambit - But if you follow my
instructions, they're just putty in our nimble fingers... :-)



On 8/24/2019 4:52 PM, Garth Groff wrote:
Friends,

With some sites this may be necessary, but with Safari with a Mac (and probably in other browsers as well) the easy way is just to right click on the photo. The menu that appears includes "Save to Desktop". Once there you can open the image in your preferred photo editor and work it up as you please.

I have a modest collection of these photos saved on my machine for possible modeling use. The folder is marked "Delete Upon My Demise", and my heirs will know these aren't my intellectual property.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: SEEKING PHOTO HELP

BRIAN PAUL EHNI
 

Especially on Flikr!

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Saturday, August 24, 2019 at 4:32 PM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] SEEKING PHOTO HELP

 


Many web sites play the
"right click disabled" gambit - But if you follow my
instructions, they're just putty in our nimble fingers... :-)



On 8/24/2019 4:52 PM, Garth Groff wrote:

Friends,

With some sites this may be necessary, but with Safari with a Mac (and probably in other browsers as well) the easy way is just to right click on the photo. The menu that appears includes "Save to Desktop". Once there you can open the image in your preferred photo editor and work it up as you please.

I have a modest collection of these photos saved on my machine for possible modeling use. The folder is marked "Delete Upon My Demise", and my heirs will know these aren't my intellectual property.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: SEEKING PHOTO HELP

BRIAN PAUL EHNI
 

JOKE COMING!

Sounds like my porn folder.

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Saturday, August 24, 2019 at 3:52 PM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] SEEKING PHOTO HELP



I have a modest collection of these photos saved on my machine for possible modeling use. The folder is marked "Delete Upon My Demise", and my heirs will know these aren't my intellectual property.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

 

Re: SEEKING PHOTO HELP

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Thanks to all who responded with quality suggestions to my phoat question.  Thanks to you I was able to transfer the photo to my desktop and can enlarge it to almost full screen.

Wow! Normnally when I have a computor problem I have to go out on the street and get a teenager for help.  This is even better.

Thanks again:

Bill PAadie
 
 

On Aug 23, 2019, at 8:28 PM, Matthew Metoyer <mmetoyer@...> wrote:

Windows 8 (?) & 10 computers include a program called 'snipping tool'. The icon looks like a pair of scissors. It allows you to create a photo file of whatever is on your screen. 

Matthew Metoyer
Santa Maria CA

On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 10:27 PM Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:
Bill, to capture photos off of your screen requires a software called Screen Capture.
If you had a Mac, all you would have to do is click 3 buttons and hold down the mouse and drag over the image you wish to capture. I do this constantly and would hate to give up this feature. I would suggest that you search for a "Screen Capture" and download into your computer. This is also helpful for sites which don't allow the even easier "Drag & Drop", but that is another Mac item.

Tim O'Connor has stated for years that nothing can't be captured from a computer. Just a little harder for a windows system. Perhaps he will share the technique.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA



Re: Terms For Freight Car Parts

Dennis Storzek
 

On Sat, Aug 24, 2019 at 10:27 AM, mark_landgraf wrote:
Turnout vs switch
No issues there. They are both prototype terms... for different things. A turnout is the whole assemblage of rails that allow one track to become two. A switch is only the movable rails, throwbar, etc. As I always say, "a trainman can line a switch, but it takes a whole track gang to line a turnout."

Dennis Storzek

Re: SEEKING PHOTO HELP (Terms For Freight Car Parts)

Donald B. Valentine
 

Congratulations Bob Webber because if one can't laugh at themselves they have no right to laugh at anyone else!

My best, Don Valentine

Re: Terms For Freight Car Parts

Nelson Moyer
 

Bob, you forgot the distinction between swing plug door and sliding plug door reefers ; )

This topic has been thrashed to death, and to my knowledge, nobody has changed their usage based upon learned discussion of relevant information. Well almost nobody. I stopped referring to plug door refers for sliding plug door reefers after being educated by Bill Welch, and I dropped the terms outside braced for single sheathed, stirrup step of sill step, and roof walk for running board after being educated by a hose of experts. Unfortunately, until manufacturers and authors use 'proper' terminology, you can't expect the great unwashed to follow suit. But I've made that argument before.

Nelson Moyer

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bob Webber
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2019 11:54 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io; main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Terms For Freight Car Parts

This might launch a large discussion..but....

Before you define those terms, better define "proper" - esp. which context you wish to use it in.

Proper may mean what is proper within the group, within the hobby, by hobby manufacturers, authors, railroaders (and that's by division within railroad), by railroad correspondence, by car manufacturer..etc. etc..

Sidestep & Sill Step (and corner step) are used by Standard Steel drawings & references. With over 60,000 drawings scanned from Pullman, Pullman-Standard, Haskell & Barker, Standard Steel and others - the only mention of "stirrup" is in the use in conjunction with posts or daft gear rigging - where its function was to support (not step).

Roof walk has not been used in the drawings, running board has been.

(you can add outside braced to the topic and enjoy more opinions)

Why do I say you must define "proper".

I was discussing the term "Harriman" in conjunction with passenger cars, saying it would be better to use the term "Common Standard". One participant, who had spent many years on the C&NW took umbrage, and said he didn't know what "Common Standard" was but he sure knew a "Harriman" car when he saw it!!! "There was a Harriman car in the yards in Chicago that's now at the Illinois Railroad Museum, and everyone called in Harriman rather than Common Standard!". Looking at the car, I found the car in question was an ex-C&O arched roof combine - neither Harriman (sic) nor Common Standard - a completely different design. Yet...this was a man who had spent a lot of time on railroads, insisting the use was proper
and more so than the "proper" term. Who was right?

I have heard railroaders, manufacturers and others use all the terms above. Does use in the industry indicate "proper" use? How many authors have used these terms? Many. Proper? How many reference books have used these terms? Many. What then is indicative of a
"proper" use? I have my opinion on this one - colored by what I do
& see now. I'm not going to say one is more proper. It depends on context and intent. People on this list have tried to instill the use of proper terms - terms used by the manufacturers of the object, and the MCB use (among others). In a sense - just as will clinics and the more scholarly papers there is a certain trust that the use of a term will be proper use. Your mileage may very.


At 10:58 AM 8/24/2019, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io wrote:

I noticed two terms for freight car parts in Mr. Trandel's presentation
are in conflict with terms I usually see used on this group.

The author used "roof walk" for "running board" and "stirrup step"
for "sill step".

Which terms are preferred/correct?

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA
Bob Webber

Re: Terms For Freight Car Parts

Bob Chaparro
 

Well, your dissertation on the word "proper" is all well and good.

But I never used the word "proper" nor did anyone else in this discussion to date. But I do get your point.

I already knew the Master Car Builders preferred running board(s). Maybe somebody else has an authoritative reference for roof walk. (Athearn doesn't count.)

Sill step vs. stirrup I wasn't so certain about and you appear to have a strong reference source.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA