Date   
Re: Susquehanna 40’ boxcars c1940-48

Schleigh Mike
 

Hello John and FC Group!

The ERIE's 93000 series of nominal 36' inside length XM boxcars are of no relationship to the older 'Fowler' ERIE cars.  The former were built in 1920-21 by Standard Steel Car.  The Fowlers 1913-14 by both SSC and AC&F.  None of the 93000 were a part of the NYS&W fleet.

Mike Schleigh in Grove City, Penna.

On Monday, August 26, 2019, 9:02:05 PM EDT, John Sykes III via Groups.Io <johnsykesiii@...> wrote:


In January 1948 NYS&W had 49 - 36' IL boxcars.  The number series they were in was 1500 to 1563, so they probably had 64 or more cars originally.  My understanding was that Erie bought over 1,000 of these Canadian style boxcars and lettered some as NYS&W, which they had controlling interest in at the time.  Also in the January 1948 ORER there are none, 0, zip, nadda, 40 ft boxcars on the Suzy Q roster.  Interestingly 951 of the Erie cars (93000-93999) are listed as IL = 35'10" ???  Were these different cars or 36' IL cars modified in some way?  The true 36' IL cars are in two separate number groups in 1948 (60000-60005 and 86010-88016).  The Accurail car is numbered 87134 - i.e., out of the second group.  Their NYS&W 36' car is numbered 1567.  I guess that January 1948 ORER I bought came in handy after all.

-- John

MARPM room share

Eric Hansmann
 

I’ve made reservations to attend the upcoming Mid-Atlantic RPM (MARPM). Anyone care to split a room? Please use the REPLY to SENDER link at the bottom of the message to contact me off list. Or copy and paste this into your email browser and replace the words and spaces accordingly for an off list reply.

 

eric at hansmanns dot org

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

Re: Removing mold from a railroad print

Michael Gross
 

The American Institute for Conservation https://www.culturalheritage.org may be able to help you find a paper conservator in your area.  Naturally, there is some cost involved, and you will have to weigh the cost of conservation with the value of the print itself.  I.e., is it "worth saving?"

Many conservators have sub specialties:  works on canvas, works on paper, etc.

Good luck!

Michael Gross
Pasadena, CA

Re: Removing mold from a railroad print

Jon Miller
 

On 8/26/2019 2:55 PM, Bob Miller wrote:
Check with an art museum or art dealer and ask about folks who clean and conserve old paintings,etc.

    If it costs too much you might try a Q tip and water or soap and water.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, 
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

Re: MEK Substitute and current plastic cements

ed_mines
 

My last employer sold solvent borne coatings.The most popular solvent was a mixture of toluene and MEK.
Toluene (pronounced toolean by navy men) is an industrial narcotic - it gets you high. It is also a terratogen meaning it causes damage to unborn fetuses.

There was some country in Europe (Italy?) which blamed toluene for some deaths.

MEK may be hard to find but you can get it from auto body painters.

Acetone was available in hardware stores but it evaporates very quickly.

Duco cement uses acetone as solvent; it is very fast to evaporate. I've learned to use it in place of Ambroid cement which is no longer available.

I've bought very low viscosity ACC cement from China on ebay. It's used to attach artificial finger nails. I deliver it using miniature plastic pipets about 1-1/2 long.

I put little dabs of these 2 adhesives on waxed paper.

One last comment  on the Duco. Acetone isn't such a good solvent for the polymer. As a result the somewhat thick (viscous) Duco contains a lot of solvent and not that much polymer (plastic/adhesive). A big blob shrinks down to a small piece of plastic.

I've found that Duco is a very good adhesive even though not much of it actually ends up on the part being glued so I don't see any extra glue by the joint being glued.

I put a blob of Duco on wax paper, run one part to be glued through it , quickly wipe off the excess and hold the 2 parts in place. Makes nice joints and is very quick to dry.






Re: MEK Substitute and current plastic cements

al_brown03
 

MEK and acetone are chemically very similar (both are ketones), but MEK has a higher boiling point. That gives you more working time: handy in warm weather. 

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

Re: Removing mold from a railroad print

Tim O'Connor
 

I like Jon's idea

Real photo paper is pretty water resistant. I would add a tiny drop of
ammonia to the Q tip + water to kill the bacteria. but i'd test it first.



On 8/27/2019 1:11 PM, Jon Miller wrote:
On 8/26/2019 2:55 PM, Bob Miller wrote:
Check with an art museum or art dealer and ask about folks who clean and conserve old paintings,etc.

    If it costs too much you might try a Q tip and water or soap and water.

-- 
Jon Miller


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Removing mold from a railroad print

O Fenton Wells
 

Looks like I was wrong and it is not mildew but an acid from the tube that it was stored in.  It's brown.  The freezer and drying it didn't budge it.  NOt sure it's worth going too much farther.
Anyone know a good source for Howard Fogg railroad prints?
Fenton

On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 3:24 PM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
I like Jon's idea

Real photo paper is pretty water resistant. I would add a tiny drop of
ammonia to the Q tip + water to kill the bacteria. but i'd test it first.



On 8/27/2019 1:11 PM, Jon Miller wrote:

On 8/26/2019 2:55 PM, Bob Miller wrote:
Check with an art museum or art dealer and ask about folks who clean and conserve old paintings,etc.

    If it costs too much you might try a Q tip and water or soap and water.

-- 
Jon Miller


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...

Re: Removing mold from a railroad print

Benjamin Hom
 

Fenton Wells asked:
"Looks like I was wrong and it is not mildew but an acid from the tube that it was stored in.  It's brown.  The freezer and drying it didn't budge it.  Not sure it's worth going too much farther.
Anyone know a good source for Howard Fogg railroad prints?"

Time to step back and answer a few questions:

1. Is this a numbered and signed print?  If it's a low numbered, signed print of a popular subject, it might be worth investigatigating restoration.

2. If it isn't numbered and signed, you might be able to get another copy at a reasonable price.  Check eBay to get an idea of the market - a search on "Howard Fogg" returned 310 hits.


Ben Hom
   

Re: Removing mold from a railroad print

spsalso
 

The brown "stain" on a print can also come from inadequate rinsing during processing.  The pattern of the area would likely reveal whether it's that or acid from the tube.

As far as removing mold from prints:

I have been happy with using 99% isopropyl alcohol on FILM.  I soak a micro-fiber cloth in the alcohol, and rub the film well.  Then I rinse using alcohol from a wash bottle.  Let dry.

Because it has worked so well on negatives (and slides), I'd try using it on prints.  But testing carefully, at first--perhaps on a border.


Ed

Edward Sutorik

Re: Removing mold from a railroad print

RICH CHAPIN
 

try this link from the Smithsonian

https://siarchives.si.edu/.../collections-care-guidelines-resources/ive-got-mold-my-files

I found it by goggling how do I remove mold from old paper

Re: Removing mold from a railroad print

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Hi Fenton.

 

There is a process called “de-acidification.”  As many of you know, the “Official Guide” book were printed on flimsy paper which was also acid-rich, and as a consequence become extremely fragile.  I have an Official Guide from 1948, when I was born, and was interested in preserving it.  The conservator I consulted told me about this process, which in that case involved inserting a thin deacidifying paper between every two pages – at some significant expense.  As a result, my OG continues to deteriorate.

 

But with a single print, it might not be too terribly expensive. The questions asked about whether it’s a signed original print vs a reproduction are considerations for sure.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of O Fenton Wells
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 3:38 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Removing mold from a railroad print

 

Looks like I was wrong and it is not mildew but an acid from the tube that it was stored in.  It's brown.  The freezer and drying it didn't budge it.  NOt sure it's worth going too much farther.

Anyone know a good source for Howard Fogg railroad prints?

Fenton

 

On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 3:24 PM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

I like Jon's idea

Real photo paper is pretty water resistant. I would add a tiny drop of
ammonia to the Q tip + water to kill the bacteria. but i'd test it first.



On 8/27/2019 1:11 PM, Jon Miller wrote:

On 8/26/2019 2:55 PM, Bob Miller wrote:

Check with an art museum or art dealer and ask about folks who clean and conserve old paintings,etc.

    If it costs too much you might try a Q tip and water or soap and water.

-- 
Jon Miller

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


 

--

Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd

Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...

Re: Removing mold from a railroad print

O Fenton Wells
 

Thanks Schuyler, I'll try to find some.  I tried the alcohol and peroxide on a que tip and nothing.  I'm very disappointed but it is a print and I may try to find a new one.  If available and affordable.  In the mean time I may go try the alcohol again but, this time in a glass over ice.
Fenton
PS if anyone knows a good source of Howard Fogg prints, let me know.


On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 4:10 PM Schuyler Larrabee via Groups.Io <schuyler.larrabee=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Hi Fenton.

 

There is a process called “de-acidification.”  As many of you know, the “Official Guide” book were printed on flimsy paper which was also acid-rich, and as a consequence become extremely fragile.  I have an Official Guide from 1948, when I was born, and was interested in preserving it.  The conservator I consulted told me about this process, which in that case involved inserting a thin deacidifying paper between every two pages – at some significant expense.  As a result, my OG continues to deteriorate.

 

But with a single print, it might not be too terribly expensive. The questions asked about whether it’s a signed original print vs a reproduction are considerations for sure.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of O Fenton Wells
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 3:38 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Removing mold from a railroad print

 

Looks like I was wrong and it is not mildew but an acid from the tube that it was stored in.  It's brown.  The freezer and drying it didn't budge it.  NOt sure it's worth going too much farther.

Anyone know a good source for Howard Fogg railroad prints?

Fenton

 

On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 3:24 PM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

I like Jon's idea

Real photo paper is pretty water resistant. I would add a tiny drop of
ammonia to the Q tip + water to kill the bacteria. but i'd test it first.



On 8/27/2019 1:11 PM, Jon Miller wrote:

On 8/26/2019 2:55 PM, Bob Miller wrote:

Check with an art museum or art dealer and ask about folks who clean and conserve old paintings,etc.

    If it costs too much you might try a Q tip and water or soap and water.

-- 
Jon Miller

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


 

--

Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd

Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...

Re: MEK Substitute and current plastic cements

Donald B. Valentine
 

Ed Mines wrote:

Duco cement uses acetone as solvent; it is very fast to evaporate. I've learned to use it in place of Ambroid cement which is no longer available.


    What kind of crackpot nonsense is this??? As Tim O'Connor would say, "Google is your friend".  There are dozens of
places on Google from Amazon.com to the Old Town Canoe company selling it of which I'm sure Old Town is the oldest
provider knowing something of the history of the company. Last I knew a fellow in his late 30's or early 40's by now out of Springfield, VT owned it and was occaionally sseen at some model railroad meets.

Cordially, Don Valentine

Re: MEK Substitute and current plastic cements

Tony Thompson
 

Al Brown wrote:

MEK and acetone are chemically very similar (both are ketones . . .

As you can tell from acetone's chemical name: dimethylketone.

Tony Thompson



Re: Removing mold from a railroad print

James SANDIFER
 

In photo printing, the print is exposed, then goes into a developer, then to a fixer (which stops the development process), then a water wash for 4-5 minutes. If one wants the print to have a gloss, he uses glossy paper and dries the print face down on a high gloss heated drum. If it is matte finish, it still must be dried, preferably on a heated drum, to keep it flat. 

So, water should not hurt it, but care should be taken with the softened emulsion or you can rub it off of the paper backing. Drying it perfectly flat may be a greater issue.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 2:27 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Removing mold from a railroad print

 

I like Jon's idea

Real photo paper is pretty water resistant. I would add a tiny drop of
ammonia to the Q tip + water to kill the bacteria. but i'd test it first.



On 8/27/2019 1:11 PM, Jon Miller wrote:

On 8/26/2019 2:55 PM, Bob Miller wrote:

Check with an art museum or art dealer and ask about folks who clean and conserve old paintings,etc.

    If it costs too much you might try a Q tip and water or soap and water.

-- 
Jon Miller

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: MEK Substitute and current plastic cements

Nelson Moyer
 

Amazing what one extra methyl group will do to change chemical properties ;  )

 

Nelson Moyer

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 7:19 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] MEK Substitute and current plastic cements

 

Al Brown wrote:



MEK and acetone are chemically very similar (both are ketones . . .

 

As you can tell from acetone's chemical name: dimethylketone.

 

Tony Thompson

 

 

 

Piedmont & Northern 1101 Styrene and Resin Build Part One

Bill Welch
 

With a good start the Boys at the Clearwater Car Shops thought it was time to report their progress to The Boss on their mixed styrene/resin project to build a model of a double-sheathed Piedmont & Northern boxcar, originally built I think for the Pere Marquette as a 1½ door or double door auto car. The vertical rib ends came from Dr. Dave Campbell. To make assembly easy I laminated some 0.005 strips of styrene to the back edges of each end.

I made the sides from Evergreen’s passenger car siding and used .125 x .125 styrene on each end where it will meet the styrene laminated on the ends. In between are more lengths of .125 x .125 styrene the length of the sides to stiffen each side. I used Testor’s liquid for this work.

Fortunately Tichy has a set of Youngstown doors (#3018) that with easy modification are accurate for this model. I used my UMM Razor Blade Saw to cut off the very top of the door—the top two corrugations—then cut the top rib from the top of the top panel. I did this for both doors, then glued them to a 0.005 substrate and then glued the small top piece back onto the door. Having the substrait made it easy to get the small piece properly butted against the door and in good alignment plus making for a strong assembly despite the splice. I put some weight on the two doors and let them cure for at least 24 hours to minimize any warping that happens sometimes when using solvents to assemble styrene. If you look closely two small white dots can be seen on each side of the doors towards the top where I have used bits of styrene to repair the raised portions.

These cars had what looks to me like a 6-inch steel side sill. I wanted to use 1 x 6 strip styrene for this to give relief under the car side. To make sure this would be a stiff assembly I made some long strips from 0.005 sheet and glued this to the back of the siding, then attached lengths of 1 x 6 to the 0.005 making sure it was firmly in contact with the edge of the siding.

Next I figured out where the doors should be located on the cars sides I had built and used one of my doors to mark their exact width on each car side. Then I cut some very thin strips of 0.005 styrene to use as Batten Strips along the very bottom of each side. I used a .005 pen to draw a line where this strip should be glued down and used small pieces of masking tape to hold these small strips of styrene in place and straight. With a 10/0 brush I applied Testors very gingerly making sure the brush was not heavily loaded with glue to prevent any distortion of the very thin styrene. I left this strip off of the area where the door will fit.

After the sides were well cured I glued an end to the left end of each side and let these two assemblies cure overnight. To act as a third hand I used masking tape to hold the two exaggerated “L” shapes together and aligned and glued one end at a time. For this I used Tamiya Extra Thin because it sets up faster than Testors.

Prior to the above step I used my caliper to measure the length of one of the sides and then compared this to the Accurail underframe. This measurement showed I needed to remove a small amount of material on each side of the coupler box and proceeded to do so. Once the superstructure was well cured I inserted the underframe into the newly assembled body. The only adjustment necessary was to shim each side with .060 x .020 styrene. On the very top end of the coupler box (or Draft Gear) I added a section of “L” styrene. I cut these a little to long and will wait to trim them to the proper length when The Boys are ready to start shaping and detailing this piece as a Buffer casting.

With the basic body assembled The Boys have started adding basic details. The original single handhold was a drop grab and about 24-inches above another straight grab was added when this started to be required. Photos show that the drop grab on the send was slightly above the one on the side so The Boys followed this pattern. To model the Gusset Plate between the two side grabs and in the same location on the right end, 0.005 sheet styrene was cut to proper width. The length was left longer than necessary to act as a handle until it was glued in place. These will have rivets harvested as needed for details.

In the next report the Boys will show off their Riveting skills. By then hopefully the CCS Mechanical Engineer Rube “Escher” Goldberg will sort out his problem cutting pieces of styrene squarely and have made progress with the Hutchins roof.

Bill Welch

Re: Piedmont & Northern 1101 Styrene and Resin Build Part One

Paul Doggett
 

Bill

That’s a fine piece of work that you have done so far I look forward to seeing the next instalment.

Paul Doggett. England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

Re: Piedmont & Northern 1101 Styrene and Resin Build Part One

Fritz Milhaupt
 

Bill-

That's really nice work. I'm very much looking forward to seeing how you continue with this- I need to build a number of these cars in their earlier Pere Marquette and Manistee & North Eastern paint jobs.

Are those ends still available anywhere? They are what has kept me from doing this on my own.

The PM had a maddening attraction to less-common boxcar ends that has kept me from tackling cars that really should make up a good part of my boxcar fleet.

-Fritz Milhaupt
Pere Marquette Historical Society