Date   
Re: Youngstown Sheet & Tube tank car

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Claus,

I'm pretty sure this ISN'T an AC&F type 11 car. The lack of end platforms and the shape of the tank support/bolsters speak against this. There were a number of knock-off high-walkway tank car designs from other manufacturers, but AFAIK this topic has not been well researched. High walkway do not always mean AC&F.

Maybe our tank car geeks can comment further.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 9/20/2019 11:46 PM, Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) wrote:
Hi List Members,
 
There is a second image showing this car, unusual underframe design...
 
 
Claus Schlund
 
----- Original Message -----
To: STMFC
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2019 9:20 PM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Youngstown Sheet & Tube tank car

Hi List Members,
 
Some might enjoy this image of this Youngstown Sheet & Tube tank car YS&T 110.
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 
 

Re: Question for Al Brown on Southern war emergency hopper

al_brown03
 

No construction photos … most I can say is I *think* each overlay is a single piece, scored. 

Youngstown Sheet & Tube tank car

David
 

YS&T 110 is the type of car that Pennsylvania Tank Car was building in the early-mid Teens. The car behind it appear to be an early (pre-1917) GATC tank.

David Thompson

Monon Box Cars

Armand Premo
 

Need information as to the type of doors on the 9000 9100 series Boxcars .Armand Premo

Re: Monon Box Cars

al_brown03
 

Hi Armand,

A few published photos of CIL 9000-9449: all have 6' 7-panel Superior doors. The '91, '01, and '05 MM articles are kitbashes by Mont Switzer.

CIL 9157, 9294: MRG 9-10/84 p 11
CIL 9147: Dolzall, "Monon", p 99
CIL 9179: MM 12/91 pp 58-61
CIL 9046, 9427: MM 9/01 pp 50-53
CIL 9271: MM 12/95 p41
CIL 9094: Bowden, "Modoc", p 146
CIL 9225, 9283: MM 11/05 pp 59-62.

Best,

AL B.

Re: Youngstown Sheet & Tube tank car

Bruce Smith
 

David,

My first impression was that the frame was classic Standard Tank Car, not PTC. To me, the bolsters scream STC. Can you clarify as to why you think it is PTC?

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of David via Groups.Io <jaydeet2001@...>
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2019 7:44 AM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io <RealSTMFC@groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Youngstown Sheet & Tube tank car
 
YS&T 110 is the type of car that Pennsylvania Tank Car was building in
the early-mid Teens. The car behind it appear to be an early (pre-1917)
GATC tank.

David Thompson



Re: Standard Car Co.??

Dave Lawler
 

Thank you to everyone who aimed me in the right direction for Standard Car Co.
I've been in contact with Don Valentine and sent an order for some half door
conversion kits this morning.
Fenton that is a great looking GTW car.
Best regards,
Dave Lawler

Various Steel Industry Loads

Bob Chaparro
 

Various Steel Industry Loads

An undated photo from the Ohio Memory website:

https://ohiomemory.org/digital/collection/p15005coll10/id/2993/rec/13

Description: "Ladles loaded on train cars for shipment made by the William B. Pollock Company."

Also visible are loads of steel coils, beams and plates.

And my thanks to Claus Schlund for finding the Ohio Memory website.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: Youngstown Sheet & Tube tank car

Steve and Barb Hile
 

There was some symbiotic relationship between Pennsylvania Tank Car Company and Standard Tank Car Company, with PTC being the older (1914 versus 1919).  I had some discussions after publishing the UTLX book over the identification of the Ohio Cities Gas Company, International Refinery tank cars shown on page 135.  It seems more likely that those cars (and the Youngstown Sheet and Tube car being discussed) were built by PTC before STC really got going.  STC continued to use the heavy built up underframe and tank saddle with the lowered running boards while PTC came up with a new underframe design in the 1920's.
 
GATC eventually purchased both and concentrated activity at the Sharon, PA STC plant.
 
Steve Hile



From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2019 10:30 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Youngstown Sheet & Tube tank car

David,

My first impression was that the frame was classic Standard Tank Car, not PTC. To me, the bolsters scream STC. Can you clarify as to why you think it is PTC?

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of David via Groups.Io <jaydeet2001@...>
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2019 7:44 AM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io <RealSTMFC@groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Youngstown Sheet & Tube tank car
 
YS&T 110 is the type of car that Pennsylvania Tank Car was building in
the early-mid Teens. The car behind it appear to be an early (pre-1917)
GATC tank.

David Thompson



Re: Various Steel Industry Loads

Jon Miller
 

On 9/21/2019 11:12 AM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io wrote:
Also visible are loads of steel coils, beams and plates.

    The ends of the flats are interesting.  Don't think I have ever seen that before.  Also for scenery the old track on the left of the photo is really a neat idea.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, 
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

Re: Various Steel Industry Loads

Brian Carlson
 

Cool photo but it’s mid-late 60’s at the earliest with EL hoppers, gothic P&LE and boxcar with the removed roofwalk. The load restraints  would be different in earlier times. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Sep 21, 2019, at 2:12 PM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:

Various Steel Industry Loads

An undated photo from the Ohio Memory website:

https://ohiomemory.org/digital/collection/p15005coll10/id/2993/rec/13

Description: "Ladles loaded on train cars for shipment made by the William B. Pollock Company."

Also visible are loads of steel coils, beams and plates.

And my thanks to Claus Schlund for finding the Ohio Memory website.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: Youngstown Sheet & Tube tank car

Tony Thompson
 

Steve  Hile wrote:

There was some symbiotic relationship between Pennsylvania Tank Car Company and Standard Tank Car Company, with PTC being the older (1914 versus 1919).  I had some discussions after publishing the UTLX book over the identification of the Ohio Cities Gas Company, International Refinery tank cars shown on page 135.  It seems more likely that those cars (and the Youngstown Sheet and Tube car being discussed) were built by PTC before STC really got going.  

        Certainly during the 1920s STC was far bigger than PTC, and we know that zPTC bought tanks from STC to put on its own underframes. But the early high-walkway tanks we are discussing are not likely to be part of that situation. They seem to me far more likely to be PTC cars.

Tony Thompson



Re: Youngstown Sheet & Tube tank car

Jack Mullen
 

On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 07:35 PM, Claus Schlund \(HGM\) wrote:
See also the image below, from the Republic Steel collecion, showing ERIE stock cars apparently used for loading pig iron.
  And when the driver think he safely on the other side
  He shouts back down the line to the man and he says
 I fooled you, I fooled you
 I got pig iron, I got pig iron
 I got all pig iron

You just can't mention stock cars and pig iron without invoking Lonnie Donegan.

Jack Mullen

Re: Youngstown Sheet & Tube tank car

earlyrail
 

Re: Youngstown Sheet & Tube tank car

al_brown03
 

The TKX bolsters sure look like Standard Tank designs. I wish one could see the YS&T bolsters a little more from the side: that "porthole" in the bolster is a Standard Tank spotting feature.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

Re: Question for Al Brown on Southern war emergency hopper

 

Thank you Al for the info. Did some more research online and found that a company called Rail Scale Models sells scribed wooden overlays. However they are advertised as fitting Accurail hoppers not Athearn. Someone also suggested scribing the lines. Since I have about 15 hoppers of both manufactures I think I’ll try all the methods at least once. Thanks again for the quick response.

Jim Moore

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

Re: Youngstown Sheet & Tube tank car

Donald B. Valentine
 

    There are several htings that stand out to me in this photo. Since the tank car is the primary reason the photo has been posted let's take it first. Were the walkways for this car designed by Rube Goldberg out on a drunk or some kindergarten kid? I look at the four straps around the tank and underframe and really wonder how well they could hold things together in ANY accident, let along
one in which the car was rolled over. Then I not the two 1/2 circumferential straps, one on either side of the dome to help support
the walkway. Noting two nuts on the underside of each strap supporting said walkway I presume it is only two boards wide. But
look at all of these pieces attached to the four circumferential and two 1/2 circumferential straps. There appear to be no rivets or
bolts showing to make this connection. Could it have been done by welding at this early period? Perhaps it's the lighting and the
shadows but I am really curious about this in the teens, judging by the May 1913 builders date on the Lackawanna GM class gon.
And look at the gon itself! When I think of gons from this time frame the ubiquitous Pennsy G22 gons always come to mind but
this Lackawanna gon appears to be constructed like a battleship in comparison! The heavy fishbelly underframe and the number
and spacing of side braces shown give it a very substantially constructed look even if lumber is used for the sheathing. There must
be a minimum of 15 on each side if not 16. Then there are the strap metal stake pockets bolted to the wood sheathing that always
look so neat on some of the early gons. I'd love to find the blueprints for that early gon as it would make an excellent model subject. Then I scroll to the far right and look at the Reading boxcar, all steel even at this early date. This and the gon make the
TKX tank car and old Pennsy boxcar look rather puny in construction to my eye. The Bettendorf T-section trucks on the gon lend to that impression as well when compared to the arch bar trucks looking like they came from the local smithy under the tack car.

Perhaps a different view of things, Don Valentine

Re: Youngstown Sheet & Tube tank car

Donald B. Valentine
 

Bruce Smith, what class is the Pennsy #532885 boxcar seen in this photo? Is the roof slope really as flat as it appears or is it just my view of it?  Also forgot to note earlier folks, not the sign on the utility pole, "DANGER Do Not Drink Water Polluted" with a bottom line I cannot read but the sign has got to be a first, especially in that era.

Cordially, Don Valentine

Re: Youngstown Sheet & Tube tank car

Benjamin Hom
 

Don Valentine asked:
"...what class is the Pennsy #532885 boxcar seen in this photo?"

Class X23.  Not likely to be mistaken for anything else.


Ben Hom

Re: Various Steel Industry Loads

Donald B. Valentine
 

Definitely a photo beyond our period given the steel I beams in the PC gon #598980. But not that the stacks of I beams
have a vertical piece of scrap wood between each of them and along the sides, the purpose for which I can only wonder
about except possibly to maintain that space between them for unloading purposes. But what gives with the PC car? It
appears to have wood interior sheathing and fairly high sides. Then I note the rolled sheets in some sort of container
devices on the two flat cars behind the I beam load. Don't know the steel industry but have never seen anything like
these before. Are they something secifically designed for easy loading and unloading with a high capacity fork lift or
what is their purpose? Such photos always present more questions than answers for me.

Cordially, Don Valentine