Date   
Re: WP Rebuilt Boxcar

Jack Mullen
 

Unusual  end. I  don't think I've seen one like this before.
There are at least 5 sections, perhaps 6, riveted together.
Each piece has one rectangular rib.  What is it?

Too bad more of the car isn't shown. Can anyone i.d. it?

Jack Mullen

Re: D&RGW boxcar end

Dennis Storzek
 

On Sun, Jan 12, 2020 at 01:59 AM, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford wrote:
No, I don't think we are seeing the same thing. I'm not talking about the end as a whole, just what appears to be an extra indent on both sides of the joint to the left of the tack board.
Garth,

The fourth, fifth, and sixth photos down in this paper explains it all:

https://www.ttnut.com/resources/dreadnaught-ends-richard-hendrickson/8959

Dennis

Re: WP Rebuilt Boxcar

Riverboy
 

What type of end is that? Is it a Hutchins? Please pardon my ignorance if I am way off! LOL!

Tod C Dwyer

On Sunday, January 12, 2020, 09:20:17 AM EST, gary laakso <vasa0vasa@...> wrote:


Here is a fine picture of a rebuilt WP boxcar:

 

https://donstrack.smugmug.com/UtahRails/Emil-Albrecht-Photos/1947-Oct-Salt-Lake-City/i-7hsPfxj/A 

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock

WP Rebuilt Boxcar

gary laakso
 

Here is a fine picture of a rebuilt WP boxcar:

 

https://donstrack.smugmug.com/UtahRails/Emil-Albrecht-Photos/1947-Oct-Salt-Lake-City/i-7hsPfxj/A 

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock

Re: Rutland flatcar with trailer load

Donald B. Valentine
 

Garth Groff wrote:

Walt,

I have an October 1958 ORER. Rutland still had 26 of the 2700-series in revenue service, and I don't know how many in company service. 

The Green Mountain Railroad dates from 1964, so I have no information about it (though some photos of recent vintage). Since this line was 
owned by Nelson Blount, also the founder of Steamtown in its original incarnation, there is no wonder how Rutland 2777 ended up in the 
modern Steamtown museum collection.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆


    This is absolutely correct Garth. The only thing I don't recall, and can't find my roster to check, is how many of the #2700 flats the GMRC 
ended up with as I believe the Vermont Rwy. got a few as well. The GMRC also got at least one of the older, straight side sill Rutland flat cars.
I knew Nelson Blount and drove within 2 miles of his place on my way home in August of 1967 when he was killed. The GMRC and Steamtown
were totally separated  shortly thereafter with Robert W. Adams heading up the GMRC employee group that acquired the railroad from Ne;son's
estate. Over the years I also worked for the GMRC as a relief passenger trainman, later as relief fireman for Steamtown for which later still I 
served as the insurance agent. The falling out that occurred between the State of Vermont and Steamtown in the late 1970's is a shame from
which I do not feel Steamtown has ever recovered, nor have I been at all impressed by the many losses and lack of very much real progress 
since it was moved and became the Scranton Scrapyard. Others may view it differently but that's the way I see it. If it was going to move I 
believe strongly that the Kingston, NY choice also contemplated would have been a far better choice in the long run.

Cordially, Don Valentine

Re: D&RGW boxcar end

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Andy,

No, I don't think we are seeing the same thing. I'm not talking about the end as a whole, just what appears to be an extra indent on both sides of the joint to the left of the tack board.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆


On Sat, Jan 11, 2020 at 2:43 PM Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:
If what I am seeing is what you have commented on, then we are both looking at an early Dreadnaught stamped steel end which used "indented" (or inverted; I have heard both terms used in describing this end) stampings. The joint section had an obstacle rolled flat to allow riveting. This style of end was done quite well in my opinion from Al Westerfield in his ATSF box cars. This same style of end was used in the Pullman Co. built 50' single sheathed auto cars for the WP which MDC did several years ago in the pre-Tahoe Model Works era. There are 100's of examples of this style of end.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

On Saturday, January 11, 2020, 11:31:27 AM PST, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:


Friends,

The second photo also captures a rare view of a WP-owned PFE reefer, 50556. 

Did you all take note the odd wale in the middle of the D&RGW car's end? It appears to be two sections pieced together, but with a matching additional half-indent in each. I've never seen an end like this before.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆


On Sat, Jan 11, 2020 at 11:21 AM David via Groups.Io <jaydeet2001=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Here's another raised-roof box.

https://donstrack.smugmug.com/UtahRails/Emil-Albrecht-Photos/1947-Oct-Salt-Lake-City/i-Tnq2XQp/A

David Thompson

West Rail Kits Available

Bob Chaparro
 

West Rail Kits Available

I stopped by Reed's Hobby Shop (San Diego, CA, area) today and noticed they had two West Rail kits for sale (forgot to record the price, sorry). I know some of you would be interested.

Both kits are stock number R-122, ART steel body reefers appropriate for the 26000-26299 series from 1946 forward.

Here is the contact information:

Reed's Hobby Shop

8039 La Mesa Blvd,

La Mesa CA 91942

619-464-1672

E-Mail: reeds@... [reeds AT abac DOT com]

http://www.reeds-hobbies.com/

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: ATSF BX-11,12, and13 rebuild question

Nathan Obermeyer
 

John,

The information is very helpful and unfortunately the cars were retired before my modeling era. It’s interesting how many times the cars were rebuilt.

Thanks,
Nate

Re: Reboxx 33 in. Wheel Application Chart

Bob Miller
 

Here you go, Nelson

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nelson Moyer
Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2020 5:59 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Reboxx 33 in. Wheel Application Chart

 

At one time, Reboxx had wheel application charts on their web page. For some reason, I downloaded the chart for 36 in. wheels but not the chart for 33 in. wheels. I’ll be eternally grateful if someone would sent the pdf of the 33 in. wheel chart.

 

Nelson Moyer

Re: ATSF BX-11,12, and13 rebuild question

James SANDIFER
 

The thing that confuses me about your description is the term “rebuilds,” becauses Santa Fe rebuilt them in several ways at various times. Just look at the website: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/tall-pratt-truss-single-sheathed-box-and-auto-cars#/  Yes, some were rebuilt in the mid 50s with steel sides, but the first rebuilds were in 1941 which were truss side cars with side extensions. The above website indicates that all forms are being proposed. If that is true, then there are several very different cars to be produced. I am content to wait for more formal and more detailed information. In the mean time, I have a enough of the Westerfield kits, and the mid-50 steel rebuilds are too late for my modeling era.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of John Drake
Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2020 5:43 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ATSF BX-11,12, and13 rebuild question

 

Nate,  

According to John Dobyne’s Santa Fe Boxcars 1869-1953, published by the Santa Fe Historical and Modeling Society back in 2001, the Bx-13s, which were not modified with roof extensions, were the first to be rebuilt in steel.  The program ran from 1950-52. The cars were rebuilt with riveted side-panel assemblies and extensions for the ends, which raised the inside height of the cars to 10 foot 6 inches. They were also given new AB brake systems with crosswise-mounted reservoirs, 6/5/5 Youngstown light­weight doors, and either Blaw-Knox or Transco metal running boards. The cars retained their Ajax handbrakes and Dalman I-level trucks. The rebuilt 985 cars retained their Bx-13 classification, but were renumbered into the 32500-33484 number series. These cars remained in service until 1973.

The cars that Prototype Junction are planning produce are the Bx-11 rebuilds.  This rebuild program began in 1956 and continued through 1962. The majority of the class were rebuilt very similar to the Bx-13 class and assigned numbers in the 19000-20438 number series. This series retained their Bx-11 class designation. The cars numbered between 19000 and 19895 were modified from 10 foot 6 inch high Bx-11s in the 210000-210960 series. The cars numbered 19896-20438 were rebuilt from 10 foot high or unmodified Bx-11s in the 124000-125999 series.  The last of the rebuilt Bx-11 cars remained in service until 1976.

The primary differences between the bodies of the Bx-13 rebuilds and the Bx-11 rebuilds were their roofs and ends. Dobyne states that after rebuilding, all the Bx-11 class had rectangular-panel steel roofs which extended to the ends of the car. The extension panel on the ends formed the peak of the end and included a Dreadnaught corrugation which matched a portion of the original recessed Dreadnaught ends. They were also given sill steps with two rungs at each corner of the car.  These rebuilds retained their Dalman 2-level trucks, but the were modified with ASF spring packages. Most cars in this series were equipped with Youngstown doors, but some of the higher numbered cars received Superior 5-panel doors.

Just a comment on these rebuilt cars’ paint scheme.  the Santa Fe adopted its “Ship and Travel” paint scheme with the large herald in 1959, in the middle of this rebuilding program. According to Dobyne, there was a break in production between December 1958 and August 1959, so the first car produced in August, car number 19848, was probably the first car painted in the new scheme

Hope this helps!

John

Reboxx 33 in. Wheel Application Chart

Nelson Moyer
 

At one time, Reboxx had wheel application charts on their web page. For some reason, I downloaded the chart for 36 in. wheels but not the chart for 33 in. wheels. I’ll be eternally grateful if someone would sent the pdf of the 33 in. wheel chart.

 

Nelson Moyer

Re: D&RGW boxcar end

mopacfirst
 

Detouring back to the the Santa Fe, since I'm almost finished with a Bx-11 and have a couple Bx-12s on the bench, I will note that Westerfield indeed got that little curve modeled right on the Bx-11, and for the Bx-12s, that area adjacent to the center rivet seam on the car ends is correctly flat.

Ron Merrick

Re: What type of vegetation is traveling on the DRGW?

Don Strack
 

Actually, the gondola in the photo is carrying scrap tin plate from American Can in Ogden. The scrap tin plate, from the can manufacturing process, was shipped south to Proler Steel near Bingham, where it was used to extract copper (by precipitation) from copper-bearing water that had percolated down through the waste rock dumps from the Utah Copper open pit copper mine. It is a chemical process that includes a weak sulfuric acid solution in which the iron is replaced by copper oxide, resulting in copper that is about 90 percent pure.

The trip was D&RGW all the way, Ogden to Salt Lake City, then Salt Lake City to Midvale, then out the Bingham Branch to Proler Steel, which was about two miles east, outside Bingham Canyon. Proler Steel burned the coatings off the tin plate in a large rotating kiln, and the processed tin plate scrap was loaded on D&RGW GS gondolas and shipped to the precipitation plant at Copperton, at the mouth of Bingham Canyon.

More information about copper precipitation is here...

https://utahrails.net/bingham/bingham-leaching-plants.php

Don Strack

Re: ATSF BX-11,12, and13 rebuild question

Tim O'Connor
 

We're not supposed to discuss freight cars after 1960. Are you referring to the raised roof rebuilds?
I've only seen one photo of a raised roof Bx-12 with an ACI tracking label. All cars in revenue service
1968 to about 1978 were supposed to have them.

On 1/10/2020 7:54 PM, Nathan Obermeyer via Groups.Io wrote:

Prototype Junction is looking to produce ATSF BX-11, BX-12, and BX-13 models to include rebuilds in the late 1950s. The rebuilds would possibly fit my modeling time frame of 1979 and I'd like to ask the ATSF experts what the road numbers were for these cars after the 1959 rebuild? Were they put in a new class of cars? I recently purchased the ATSF Color Guide book, but it didn't have photos of the 1959 rebuilds. Can someone provide the history of the rebuilds?

Thanks,

Nate
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

D&RGW boxcar end

Andy Carlson
 

If what I am seeing is what you have commented on, then we are both looking at an early Dreadnaught stamped steel end which used "indented" (or inverted; I have heard both terms used in describing this end) stampings. The joint section had an obstacle rolled flat to allow riveting. This style of end was done quite well in my opinion from Al Westerfield in his ATSF box cars. This same style of end was used in the Pullman Co. built 50' single sheathed auto cars for the WP which MDC did several years ago in the pre-Tahoe Model Works era. There are 100's of examples of this style of end.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

On Saturday, January 11, 2020, 11:31:27 AM PST, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:


Friends,

The second photo also captures a rare view of a WP-owned PFE reefer, 50556. 

Did you all take note the odd wale in the middle of the D&RGW car's end? It appears to be two sections pieced together, but with a matching additional half-indent in each. I've never seen an end like this before.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆


On Sat, Jan 11, 2020 at 11:21 AM David via Groups.Io <jaydeet2001=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Here's another raised-roof box.

https://donstrack.smugmug.com/UtahRails/Emil-Albrecht-Photos/1947-Oct-Salt-Lake-City/i-Tnq2XQp/A

David Thompson

_._,_._,_

Re: Rutland flatcar with trailer load

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Walt,

I have an October 1958 ORER. Rutland still had 26 of the 2700-series in revenue service, and I don't know how many in company service. 

The Green Mountain Railroad dates from 1964, so I have no information about it (though some photos of recent vintage). Since this line was owned by Nelson Blount, also the founder of Steamtown in its original incarnation, there is no wonder how Rutland 2777 ended up in the modern Steamtown museum collection.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆


On Sat, Jan 11, 2020 at 1:50 PM Walter Cox via Groups.Io <WaltGCox=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Unfortunately, there was no article associated with the photo. It was contained in an ad for a Railworks brass car model. I may do the Athearn kitbash but would need to know if it was a Green Mountain Ry. or a Rutland car in 1959. Can anyone help with this?
TIA Walt

In a message dated 1/10/2020 10:49:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, claus@... writes:

Hi List Members,

Apparently the May 1999 issue of RMC page 106 has an image of another of these RUTLAND flat cars, looks like RUT 2762, from the Dominic Raia collection. I don't know if there was also an article associated with the image, since I scanned only the image and got rid of the paper copy when I moved last.

Also, it looks like this same car, RUT 2762, may still possibly survive at the Danbury Railway Museum, see link below.


Claus Schlund


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 8:26 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Rutland flatcar with trailer load

Marty and Friends,

The article was indeed by Richard Hendrickson, and is found in the August 1993 RAILMODEL JOURNAL. Richard said this was the only close prototype he could find for the Athearn 40' flatcar, due to it having 11 stake pockets on each side.

John Nehrich used the same flatcar to build flat cars and gondolas for the NEB&W (which is almost a prototype line in its own right). His gondolas were based on Rutland 2700-series flats rebuilt as gondolas 4500-4505. His article in the the January 1986 MODEL RAILROADER.

Restored Rutland flat car 2777 is at Steamtown.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆

On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 7:28 AM Marty McGuirk <mjmcguirk@...> wrote:
Interesting shot. I don't have the article, but back in the early days of prototype rolling stock modeling (John Nehrich or perhaps even Richard?) did an article on reworking an Athearn flat to more closely resemble the Rutland car.
Paul Dolkos had a car based on this article (built for him by Tom Underwood) on his old B&M layout that I acquired a few years ago (see http://centralvermontrailway.blogspot.com/2012/04/home-for-orphans.html) when Paul lost the true faith and started modeling Baltimore....He felt a Rutland flat would have been out of place in Baltimore ... <g>

Marty McGuirk
 
On January 9, 2020 at 10:09 PM Douglas Harding <doug.harding@...> wrote:

Here is an interesting image. Shows Rutland 2700 flatcar with two short Freuhauf trailers, being delivered in Des Moines IA. I don’t have a date, but would say circa 1920.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org




 


Re: NYC double door raised roof boxcar

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Friends,

The second photo also captures a rare view of a WP-owned PFE reefer, 50556. 

Did you all take note the odd wale in the middle of the D&RGW car's end? It appears to be two sections pieced together, but with a matching additional half-indent in each. I've never seen an end like this before.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆


On Sat, Jan 11, 2020 at 11:21 AM David via Groups.Io <jaydeet2001=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Here's another raised-roof box.

https://donstrack.smugmug.com/UtahRails/Emil-Albrecht-Photos/1947-Oct-Salt-Lake-City/i-Tnq2XQp/A

David Thompson




Re: Rutland flatcar with trailer load

Walter Cox
 

Thanks to Google I just found that Rutland would have been correct into 1963. I should have thought of Google sooner but didn't think of the question until I was typing the rest of my reply. Sorry about that.
Walt

In a message dated 1/11/2020 1:50:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, WaltGCox@... writes:

Unfortunately, there was no article associated with the photo. It was contained in an ad for a Railworks brass car model. I may do the Athearn kitbash but would need to know if it was a Green Mountain Ry. or a Rutland car in 1959. Can anyone help with this?
TIA Walt

In a message dated 1/10/2020 10:49:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, claus@... writes:

Hi List Members,

Apparently the May 1999 issue of RMC page 106 has an image of another of these RUTLAND flat cars, looks like RUT 2762, from the Dominic Raia collection. I don't know if there was also an article associated with the image, since I scanned only the image and got rid of the paper copy when I moved last.

Also, it looks like this same car, RUT 2762, may still possibly survive at the Danbury Railway Museum, see link below.


Claus Schlund


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 8:26 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Rutland flatcar with trailer load

Marty and Friends,

The article was indeed by Richard Hendrickson, and is found in the August 1993 RAILMODEL JOURNAL. Richard said this was the only close prototype he could find for the Athearn 40' flatcar, due to it having 11 stake pockets on each side.

John Nehrich used the same flatcar to build flat cars and gondolas for the NEB&W (which is almost a prototype line in its own right). His gondolas were based on Rutland 2700-series flats rebuilt as gondolas 4500-4505. His article in the the January 1986 MODEL RAILROADER.

Restored Rutland flat car 2777 is at Steamtown.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆

On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 7:28 AM Marty McGuirk <mjmcguirk@...> wrote:
Interesting shot. I don't have the article, but back in the early days of prototype rolling stock modeling (John Nehrich or perhaps even Richard?) did an article on reworking an Athearn flat to more closely resemble the Rutland car.
Paul Dolkos had a car based on this article (built for him by Tom Underwood) on his old B&M layout that I acquired a few years ago (see http://centralvermontrailway.blogspot.com/2012/04/home-for-orphans.html) when Paul lost the true faith and started modeling Baltimore....He felt a Rutland flat would have been out of place in Baltimore ... <g>

Marty McGuirk

On January 9, 2020 at 10:09 PM Douglas Harding <doug.harding@...> wrote:

Here is an interesting image. Shows Rutland 2700 flatcar with two short Freuhauf trailers, being delivered in Des Moines IA. I don’t have a date, but would say circa 1920.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org




 


Re: Photo: Reefer WRX 11458 "Seymour Canning Co."

Andy Laurent
 

That set in the second link also has a nice shot of GB&W 1306, 36' double sheathed boxcar.

Andy
Wisconsin

Re: Rutland flatcar with trailer load

Walter Cox
 

Unfortunately, there was no article associated with the photo. It was contained in an ad for a Railworks brass car model. I may do the Athearn kitbash but would need to know if it was a Green Mountain Ry. or a Rutland car in 1959. Can anyone help with this?
TIA Walt

In a message dated 1/10/2020 10:49:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, claus@... writes:

Hi List Members,

Apparently the May 1999 issue of RMC page 106 has an image of another of these RUTLAND flat cars, looks like RUT 2762, from the Dominic Raia collection. I don't know if there was also an article associated with the image, since I scanned only the image and got rid of the paper copy when I moved last.

Also, it looks like this same car, RUT 2762, may still possibly survive at the Danbury Railway Museum, see link below.


Claus Schlund


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 8:26 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Rutland flatcar with trailer load

Marty and Friends,

The article was indeed by Richard Hendrickson, and is found in the August 1993 RAILMODEL JOURNAL. Richard said this was the only close prototype he could find for the Athearn 40' flatcar, due to it having 11 stake pockets on each side.

John Nehrich used the same flatcar to build flat cars and gondolas for the NEB&W (which is almost a prototype line in its own right). His gondolas were based on Rutland 2700-series flats rebuilt as gondolas 4500-4505. His article in the the January 1986 MODEL RAILROADER.

Restored Rutland flat car 2777 is at Steamtown.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆

On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 7:28 AM Marty McGuirk <mjmcguirk@...> wrote:
Interesting shot. I don't have the article, but back in the early days of prototype rolling stock modeling (John Nehrich or perhaps even Richard?) did an article on reworking an Athearn flat to more closely resemble the Rutland car.
Paul Dolkos had a car based on this article (built for him by Tom Underwood) on his old B&M layout that I acquired a few years ago (see http://centralvermontrailway.blogspot.com/2012/04/home-for-orphans.html) when Paul lost the true faith and started modeling Baltimore....He felt a Rutland flat would have been out of place in Baltimore ... <g>

Marty McGuirk
 
On January 9, 2020 at 10:09 PM Douglas Harding <doug.harding@...> wrote:

Here is an interesting image. Shows Rutland 2700 flatcar with two short Freuhauf trailers, being delivered in Des Moines IA. I don’t have a date, but would say circa 1920.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org