Mike Brock observed:

Indeed, the professor thought that Pittsburgh...or Fort Pitt to him...was
the gateway to the West.

That was indeed Pittsburgh's title--circa 1840. Doubt it was used since.
It's now used to get a laugh in Pittsburgh.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history

Been there already. Wall ain't worth a bucket o warm spit.

Charming. You Californicators have a way with words.


Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts

Actually, the Burlington put their Everywhere West slogan on
freight cars because they were the only one of the Hill lines
that went to Chicago. What would be the point of putting such
a slogan on GN or NP cars? They served depopulated wastelands
and no one there could read anyway...

Your turn.


Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts

At 07:09 PM 1/23/01 -0800, you wrote:

East of the rockies, you can fly at 500 ft. AGL all day and never
worry about running into anything except the occasional microwave
tower - at least, until you get to the Appalachians

Ahem, Richard, just don't head your way into South Dakota, or you
are liable to bump into something considerably taller than a microwave
tower...

Why would I go to South Dakota? (Why would anybody go to South Dakota?)

Teddy Roosevelt is rolling over in his grave...

Heck, even Richard Steinheimer went to South Dakota! What makes you
so special? Now get out there, and go to Wall.

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts

OK Gize,
"The West": it's a matter of perspective , ok? To an 18th
century US History nut like my wife, where we live (Kentucky) is "The West".
I have spent a very inordinate amount of time studying and living in the
19th century for the past 18 years, and this area was still considered "The
West" back then. Heck, people think that by my living in Kentucky, I'm
still in "The South", HAH! Wrong! I'm on LP/OP up here against the Godless
Mercenary Yankee hordes as far as this Alabama boy is concerned.

Warren Dickinson
Just bought an 0-8-0 for the Memphis Line

East of the rockies, you can fly at 500 ft. AGL all day and never
worry about running into anything except the occasional microwave
tower - at least, until you get to the Appalachians

Ahem, Richard, just don't head your way into South Dakota, or you
are liable to bump into something considerably taller than a microwave
tower...

Why would I go to South Dakota? (Why would anybody go to South Dakota?)

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

Richard HeNdrock...er... HeNdrickson writes

I don't know anybody named "Hedrickson," much less a noted geographer.

But

having grown up on the west coast and spent most of my life here, I can
tell you that, for us far westerners, the west begins at the Front Range.
Denver is western, Cheyenne is Western. Fort Worth isn't western, it's
southwestern, with an emphasis on "south"; all y'gotta do is listen to all
the southernisms in the dialect. Westerners have ranches, not farms (as

in

Nebraska and the Dakotas),

Many years ago, while in undergraduate school, I had the opportunity to take
an elective course and chose a graduate class called "History of the West"
thinking...Finally, something interesting, a course in the old gunfighters
and outlaws. Alas, to my horror, it was a course on the westward movement.
Indeed, the professor thought that Pittsburgh...or Fort Pitt to him...was
the gateway to the West.

Having originated in eastern Oklahoma and then been taken to the original
Atomic City of Oak Ridge, Tenn, at a very early age, I can tell you that I
considered Oklahoma to be part of the West and looked forward every year to
visiting my aunt's ranch. Alas again. When I got there, my relatives
invariably said, "Do you wanta go out to the farm?" Strike one up for
Richard again.

Who knows what the Burlington was trying to say. At least the Katy boxcars
said, "Serves the SOUTHwest well. I think I can live with that.

Mike Brock

East of the rockies, you can fly at 500 ft. AGL all day and never
worry about running into anything except the occasional microwave
tower - at least, until you get to the Appalachians

Ahem, Richard, just don't head your way into South Dakota, or you
are liable to bump into something considerably taller than a microwave
tower...

Richard and friends,

If the Burlington wasn't a western railroad (with which I agree), then
why was its slogan "Everywhere West"?

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Richard Hendrickson and others wrote:

--- In STMFC@egroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@o...>
wrote:
Westerners have ranches, not farms (as in

Nebraska and the Dakotas), so those who live in west Texas and

eastern New

Mexico sort of qualify - but
they're still flatlanders, so they don't really know from western.

The

west is all about mountains. Even in the middle of the Mojave

Desert or

the Great Basin, there are likely to be substantial mountains on the
horizon everywhere you look. From a private pilot's perspective,

the west

is where you worry about terrain clearance. East of the rockies,

you can

fly at 500 ft. AGL all day and never worry about running into

anything

except the occasional microwave tower - at least, until you get to

the

Appalachians, which are way eastern.

Not all of the western portion of Texas qualifies as 'flatland': fly
out of the El Paso airport and maintain 500' AGL going west [your
normal takeoff direction] When I go up on the roof of my house, so I
can see over other houses, there are some real big rocks sticking up
just a tad above the local desert in several directions. Having
driven west out of Pueblo CO, I won't call them mountains, even if
the cartographers do.

Jack "The trolley nut" Priller
Honorable Association of Good Guys and Irreverent Souls
"To comfort the afflicted, and to afflict the comfortable."

Richard Hedrickson...noted geographer...writes:

the Burlington hardly qualifies as western, from the

perspective of a native westerner, as Denver and Cody, WY are only on the
extreme eastern edge of the true west).

I always suspected that that guy who once said, "The west starts at Fort
Worth" didn't know what he was talking about.

Mike Brock...now where'd I leave the key to the bunker?

I don't know anybody named "Hedrickson," much less a noted geographer. But
having grown up on the west coast and spent most of my life here, I can
tell you that, for us far westerners, the west begins at the Front Range.
Denver is western, Cheyenne is Western. Fort Worth isn't western, it's
southwestern, with an emphasis on "south"; all y'gotta do is listen to all
the southernisms in the dialect. Westerners have ranches, not farms (as in
Nebraska and the Dakotas), so those who live in west Texas and eastern New
Mexico sort of qualify - but
they're still flatlanders, so they don't really know from western. The
west is all about mountains. Even in the middle of the Mojave Desert or
the Great Basin, there are likely to be substantial mountains on the
horizon everywhere you look. From a private pilot's perspective, the west
is where you worry about terrain clearance. East of the rockies, you can
fly at 500 ft. AGL all day and never worry about running into anything
except the occasional microwave tower - at least, until you get to the
Appalachians, which are way eastern.

All a matter of perspective, of course. I've heard New Yorkers talk about
"out west in Ohio"; apparently they think Pittsburgh (or maybe
Philadelphia) is the gateway to the west. But then, they call the
Adirondack and Berkshire hills "mountains," so what do they know?



Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

Richard Hedrickson...noted geographer...writes:

the Burlington hardly qualifies as western, from the

perspective of a native westerner, as Denver and Cody, WY are only on the
extreme eastern edge of the true west).

I always suspected that that guy who once said, "The west starts at Fort
Worth" didn't know what he was talking about.

Mike Brock...now where'd I leave the key to the bunker?