2-28-01

In 1911,MDT had a series of 40' reefers with MDTX initials; I think the
number series was MDTX 30000 and up. From a picture in a 1911 Equip.
Register the car looked to be the same design as in the 1919
Cyc(40'lgh.,Bettendorf u'frame,8- hinge doors 5' wide etc).In 1913 all MDT
cars were transferred to NYC&HR and LS&MS reporting marks. When they went
back to using the MDT marks in about 1924,the X was no longer used.

LR King

Richard Hendrickson wrote:

SFRD, IC, NP, BAR, CN & CP reefers were obviously RR owned. ART, PFE,
MDT(& NRC) were apparently considered to be RR owned, as the companies were
direct subsidiaries of WAB/MP, SP/UP and NYC.

Don't know about the others, Richard, but I do know from extensive
references in PFE correspondence on official matters that it was indeed
considered privately owned. Yes, of course, two railroads owned all the
stock, but it was NOT considered a subsidiary, any more than FGE was a
"subsidiary" of PRR, L&N, etc., or REA was a "subsidiary" of its owning
railroads. I'd bet that ART (which dates to the 19th century) is in that
category too. And Fruit Growers was formed in 1920, prior to the "X"
ruling, so it's indeed interesting that they conformed to the rule. Wonder
if they had a choice?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history

Byron Rose wrote:

OTOH, Union Refrigerator Transit Line used URTC into the 30s and then
changed to URTX. Could have had something to do with it's purchase by
General American in 1930, but I believe URTC was in use well into the
30s.

Good point, Byron; I'd forgotten about URT's use of URTC in the 1920s. But
the latest example I can find of a car with URTC reporting marks is 1930,
so your conjecture about the change to URTX coinciding with GATC's
acquisition of URT may well be correct. The ORERs are no help; in the
1920s and early 1930s many car owners, including URT, didn't show reporting
marks (though I did turn up one interesting factoid, which is that as late
as 1933 Cudahy showed their reporting marks as CRL, not CRLX).

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

Richard,
FGEX was a subsidiary of the L&N, ACL, and some other
southeastern roads I believe.

Actually, a separate corporation in which many railroads owned stock: PRR,
B&O, ACL, L&N, and Southern were among the major RRs that participated.

Unlike PFE, SFRD, ART, and MDT, all of which (as Tony T. has pointed out)
existed prior to 1910, Fruit Growers wasn't founded until 1922, so the "X"
ruling applied to it.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

OTOH, Union Refrigerator Transit Line used URTC into the 30s and then
changed to URTX. Could have had something to do with it's purchase by
General American in 1930, but I believe URTC was in use well into the
30s.

BSR

On Tue, 27 Feb 2001 17:47:59 -0800 Richard Hendrickson
<rhendrickson@...> writes:

Were PFE and MDT considered railroad-owned? Or was it just this

wasn't

enforced? (PFE, MDT, and probably a few others that I can't recall
off-hand, were listed in the back of the ORER's in the private

owner

section.)

SFRD, IC, NP, BAR, CN & CP reefers were obviously RR owned. ART,
PFE,
MDT(& NRC) were apparently considered to be RR owned, as the
companies were
direct subsidiaries of WAB/MP, SP/UP and NYC. But some MDT-owned
cars used
"X" reporting marks: MERX (Merchants Rfr. Line) and ERDX (Eastern
Refrigerator Despatch). On the other hand, New York Despatch Line,
though
wholly owned by Grand Trunk Western, used NYDX reporting marks until
WW II,
when the cars were finally re-lettered GTW. It may be that only a
railroad
lawyer could explain ARA/AAR policy about this - and then you
wouldn't know
whether to believe what he/she told you.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520



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Richard,
FGEX was a subsidiary of the L&N, ACL, and some other southeastern roads I believe.

Warren

SFRD, IC, NP, BAR, CN & CP reefers were obviously RR owned. ART, PFE,
MDT(& NRC) were apparently considered to be RR owned, as the companies were
direct subsidiaries of WAB/MP, SP/UP and NYC. But some MDT-owned cars used
"X" reporting marks: MERX (Merchants Rfr. Line) and ERDX (Eastern
Refrigerator Despatch). On the other hand, New York Despatch Line, though
wholly owned by Grand Trunk Western, used NYDX reporting marks until WW II,
when the cars were finally re-lettered GTW. It may be that only a railroad
lawyer could explain ARA/AAR policy about this - and then you wouldn't know
whether to believe what he/she told you.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520



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Were PFE and MDT considered railroad-owned? Or was it just this wasn't
enforced? (PFE, MDT, and probably a few others that I can't recall
off-hand, were listed in the back of the ORER's in the private owner
section.)

SFRD, IC, NP, BAR, CN & CP reefers were obviously RR owned. ART, PFE,
MDT(& NRC) were apparently considered to be RR owned, as the companies were
direct subsidiaries of WAB/MP, SP/UP and NYC. But some MDT-owned cars used
"X" reporting marks: MERX (Merchants Rfr. Line) and ERDX (Eastern
Refrigerator Despatch). On the other hand, New York Despatch Line, though
wholly owned by Grand Trunk Western, used NYDX reporting marks until WW II,
when the cars were finally re-lettered GTW. It may be that only a railroad
lawyer could explain ARA/AAR policy about this - and then you wouldn't know
whether to believe what he/she told you.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

John Nehrich asks:

Were PFE and MDT considered railroad-owned? Or was it just this wasn't
enforced? (PFE, MDT, and probably a few others that I can't recall
off-hand, were listed in the back of the ORER's in the private owner
section.)

John, read the message again. PFE and MDT (along with SFRD) already
existed, with non-"X" marks, when this rule went into effect.
PFE at least was definitely considered privately owned; as such, they
were not subject to USRA jurisdiction during that period. I believe that is
true of SFRD also.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history

Were PFE and MDT considered railroad-owned? Or was it just this wasn't
enforced? (PFE, MDT, and probably a few others that I can't recall
off-hand, were listed in the back of the ORER's in the private owner
section.) - John

In a message dated 2/27/01 7:46:05 AM Pacific Standard Time,
tomgloger@... writes:

<< At what point in time did privately owned cars have an
X added to their reporting marks, and when did it become
mandatory? >>

Tom,

The ARA adopted the use of the "X" to indicate private ownership on May 18,
1910. A combination of letters assigned to each company was to consist of:
"not less than two, nor more than four letters, in each case ending with the
letter X, indicating private ownership."

Regards,

Guy Wilber
Sparks, Nevada

At what point in time did privately owned cars have an
X added to their reporting marks, and when did it become
mandatory?


=====
- Tom Gloger e-mail: mailto:tomgloger@...
web page: http://pws.prserv.net/usinet.tgloger

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